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Is Loki in a not so good position rigth now?


-Sentient-
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Decoy: the only use at this is to switch teleport with it,but thats it,it gets 1 shoot at higher levels

You can kinda do the same thing about "take fire away from you"  with other frames,Aka Revenant enthrall,Nyx Chaos...

 

Invisibility: Ash,Octavia,Ivara,all of them has this too,but of course loki invisibility still beats them,thats good rigth?

Problem is Loki still gets shoot while invisible due to the heavy fire around him,and we all know Loki is squishy

 

Switch teleport: The only thing useful about this ability is fast travel 

Can it avoid spy lasers? Well guess what Limbo and Ivara can do it too.

 

Disarm:This ability is good,disarming enemies rigth? Oh so good..

Baruuk now its able to disarm enemies and at the same time have damage protection

 

I really wish loki can get some Changes in its abilities,They seem to be very old and beaten by newer frames.

 

Oh and dont forget that other Warframes similar to loki have far better passives

"Any Slash b Slash Procs inflicted by Ash (from both weapons and abilities) deal 25% more damage and last 50% longer."

This is very useful since most of weapons have Slash as preference 

 

"Ivara has an innate radar that detects enemies within 20 meters and displays their position on the minimap. This effect stacks with Animal Instinct, Enemy Radar, Enemy SenseStealth Drift, and Vigilante Pursuit."

You dont have to sacrifice a mod for minimap stuff,plus its Good for spy,

 

and Loki...

"Loki's Wall Latch duration is 10 times longer than other Warframes. It lasts 60 seconds compared to the normal 6 seconds."

The only reason why people would use this passive is for riven challenges...nothing more o_o

 

 

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People celebrate Baruuk then you come in asking if Loki isn't in a good spot anymore? Loki is like Baruuk 2.0 with an AoE disarm and an damage evasion that doesn't hinder you from attacking. Loki is top and playable in every mission. About the decoy thing, keep enemies disarmed and place it somewhere they can't reach.

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5 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

People celebrate Baruuk then you come in asking if Loki isn't in a good spot anymore? Loki is like Baruuk 2.0 with an AoE disarm and an damage evasion that doesn't hinder you from attacking. Loki is top and playable in every mission. About the decoy thing, keep enemies disarmed and place it somewhere they can't reach.

Problem is you can still get 1 shoot while invisible,this has happen a lot of times,he is very squishy,unlike baruuk where you get Damage reduction by the 3 ability and the passive.

And I dont agree about baruuk being worse than Loki,baruuk can Have Damage reduction and has an offensive ability.

Plus I haven't seen Loki too much like before other than in Spy missions, but thats it.

Edited by -Sentient-
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IMO Loki is in a fine spot now. The only thing that needs to be changed is lack of enemy reaction to invisible frames slaughtering everything around them. They should at least shoot in the direction of the sound source (or in random directions if there's no sound).

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3 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

Problem is you can still get 1 shoot while invisible,this has happen a lot of times,he is very squishy,unlike baruuk where you get Damage reduction by the 3 ability and the passive.

And I dont agree that baruuk being worse than Loki,baruuk can Have Damage reduction and has an offensive ability.

Plus I haven't seen Loki too much like before other than in Spy missions, but thats it.

I dont see it as a "problem" that he can be one shot while invisible.

Invisibility is good to the point of cheese in this game it's fine the way it is. You should be either murdering everything with a good melee weapon, amprex, or something equally cheesy, while invisible, while disarming everyone.

I rarely die as loki unless I just dont pay attention.

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Just now, Ksaero said:

IMO Loki is in a fine spot now. The only thing that needs to be changed is lack of enemy reaction to invisible frames slaughtering everything around them. They should at least shoot in the direction of the sound source (or in random directions if there's no sound).

So lets make the invisibility of loki worse by making Level 100 enemies shoot rigth where loki was at? uh

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10 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

Problem is you can still get 1 shoot while invisible,this has happen a lot of times,he is very squishy,unlike baruuk where you get Damage reduction by the 3 ability and the passive.

Hard to get hit when invisible against disarmed enemies. And unlike damage reduction, his invis doesn't fall off against high level enemies. Not to mention that Baruuk's Desolate Hands loses damage reduction every time a dagger flies out. Which gets worse the more range you have on him.

12 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

 And I dont agree about baruuk being worse than Loki,baruuk can Have Damage reduction and has an offensive ability.

An offensive melee ability that gets outclassed by so many existing melees already. Meh. Loki has an offensive ability as well. Invis gives you a 8x damage multiplier for melee against enemies.

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36 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

Invisibility: Ash,Octavia,Ivara,all of them has this too,but of course loki invisibility still beats them,thats good rigth?

His Invis is better?
Honestly, Ivara has the best Invis if you ask me.
She can stay Invis longer than Loki, can rob enemies, use her full kit while invis, doesn't get detected by Lasers (via Augment) & etc.
And this is coming from an Ash Main.

I feel like Loki is slowly (molasses slow) being phased out due to the game simply growing & evolving over time. Much like Nyx, Vauban, & Titania.

Edited by (PS4)Zero_029
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7 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

His Invis is better?
Honestly, Ivara has the best Invis if you ask me.
She can stay Invis longer than Loki, can rob enemies, use her full kit while invis, doesn't get detected by Lasers (via Augment) & etc.
And this is coming from an Ash Main.

I feel like Loki is slowly (molasses slow) being phased out due to the game simply growing & evolving over time. Much like Nyx, Vauban, & Titania.

Agree.

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1 hour ago, -Sentient- said:

Switch teleport: The only thing useful about this ability is fast travel 

Can it avoid spy lasers? Well guess what Limbo and Ivara can do it too.

Limbo is completely visible, and Ivara is hilariously slow on top of needing an augment.

If both of them completely outclassed Invis+SwitchTele, then yeah, there'd be a cause for concern... but as far as spy missions go, Limbo and Ivara are simply alternate options with their own pros and cons. Given the choice, I'd personally pick Loki over them any day of the week.

1 hour ago, -Sentient- said:

Disarm:This ability is good,disarming enemies rigth? Oh so good..

Baruuk now its able to disarm enemies and at the same time have damage protection

Baruuk awkwardly disarms one enemy at a time and depends on high-STR and low-Range for the DR (which, incidentally, makes his disarming ability even worse).
Loki, on the other hand, disarms entire maps at once and effectively has 100% DR with Invisibility. If you're getting hit as Loki, then you're probably playing him wrong.

It's not as if Loki wouldn't benefit from some improvements or anything (namely, some more survivability for Decoy and some extra utility for SwitchTele), and his Decoy/Invis are a bit outclassed because of some baffling Octavia-related design choices. But overall, he's still a fantastic frame and has been for years.

 

EDIT:

55 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

About the decoy thing, keep enemies disarmed and place it somewhere they can't reach.

As someone who plays quite a bit of Loki, I've never understood this. The AI for melee units causes them to basically ignore targets they can't reach, rendering that safely-placed Decoy useless.
Triburos did some really nice testing on the topic (5:43 onward for Decoy's interaction with AI):

Edited by SortaRandom
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16 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Limbo is completely visible, and Ivara is hilariously slow on top of needing an augment.

If both of them completely outclassed Invis+SwitchTele, then yeah, there'd be a cause for concern... but as far as spy missions go, Limbo and Ivara are simply alternate options with their own pros and cons. Given the choice, I'd personally pick Loki over them any day of the week.

Baruuk awkwardly disarms one enemy at a time and depends on high-STR and low-Range for the DR (which, incidentally, makes his disarming ability even worse).
Loki, on the other hand, disarms entire maps at once and effectively has 100% DR with Invisibility. If you're getting hit as Loki, then you're probably playing him wrong.

It's not as if Loki wouldn't benefit from some improvements or anything (namely, some more survivability for Decoy and some extra utility for SwitchTele), and his Decoy/Invis are a bit outclassed because of some baffling Octavia-related design choices. But overall, he's still a fantastic frame and has been for years.

 

EDIT:

As someone who plays quite a bit of Loki, I've never understood this. The AI for melee units causes them to basically ignore targets they can't reach, rendering that safely-placed Decoy useless.
Triburos did some really nice testing on the topic (5:43 onward for Decoy's interaction with AI):

Ivara is slow in prowl?

You know you can roll and bullet jump in prowl, right?

It’s similar to holding a hobbled dragon key, it only slows your running/ sprinting animations.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

Ivara is slow in prowl?

You know you can roll and bullet jump in prowl, right?

It’s similar to holding a hobbled dragon key, it only slows your running/ sprinting animations.

You cant bullet jump in prowl, only roll. If you bullet jump or sprint it breaks the invis

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15 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

As someone who plays quite a bit of Loki, I've never understood this. The AI for melee units causes them to basically ignore targets they can't reach.

Looks like my Loki knowledge is getting rusty. No wonder, didn't play him very often recently. Well that kinda sucks but at the same time, melee units are the ones you're least susceptible to when invisible.

But hey, then again we always havelatest?cb=20180325155229 right? 😄 

Wouldn't say no to some useful tweaks for his 1 and 3 though.

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13 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

Ivara is slow in prowl?

You know you can roll and bullet jump in prowl, right?

It’s similar to holding a hobbled dragon key, it only slows your running/ sprinting animations.

Rolling around is painfully slow compared to actually having your full set of parkour tools available.

I actually didn't know about the bullet jump thing, but if the wiki is correct, then invisible Ivaras can only bullet jump while on the ground with no WASD input... which, while it beats the hell out of rolling, sounds more like a bug than anything intentional. Also not exactly useful compared to, you know, actually having your full set of parkour tools available.
A person wearing ten Hobbled keys at once would outspeed an invisible Ivara any day of the week.

Edited by SortaRandom
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3 minutes ago, clxrffdman said:

You cant bullet jump in prowl, only roll. If you bullet jump or sprint it breaks the invis

You most certainly can bullet jump in Prowl - you cannot slide in prowl, though. So if you try to bullet jump while moving, it will break prowl. Bullet jumping from plain crouch, however, will not break stealth.

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17 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Rolling around is painfully slow compared to actually having your full set of parkour tools available.

I actually didn't know about the bullet jump thing, but if the wiki is correct, then invisible Ivaras can only bullet jump while on the ground with no WASD input... which, while it beats the hell out of rolling, sounds like more than a bug than anything intentional. Also not exactly useful compared to, you know, actually having your full set of parkour tools available.
A person wearing ten Hobbled keys at once would outspeed an invisible Ivara any day of the week.

Yes, but in exchange for her full kit of movement abilities, you get the stealth multiplier on your attacks, stealth, and the ability to steal from people.

Moving fast as Ivara in prowl can be a tricky thing to learn, but it’s absolutely a thing.

A test I do for myself is to try and keep up with randoms when I use Ivara in missions.

Granted, I will almost always fall behind, but not by a large amount.

That’s just me testing myself, there’s never a practical reason to keep up with your squad mates, going maximum speed in stealth.

Edited by (PS4)Mono-Pop
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As a Loki main that loves Ivara and believes you can't spell trash without ash, I have to say.. Most of you don't know what you're talking about. If you're doing badly with Loki then the problem sits by you and not Loki, Loki is a utility frame that controls the battlefield and disrupts the enemies not the one that kills everything.. You have to play with an active mind to properly use Loki, if you were shot while invis then it's your fault for running through live fire.. And yes Loki has a super long invis but he must be build for range and energy efficiency.. Disarm Loki is best Loki.. If you're playing Loki purely for his invis then you're either playing solo exterminate or you're playing him wrong since you're bringing nothing to the squad with an invis build. 

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Just now, Sibernetika said:

As a Loki main that loves Ivara and believes you can't spell trash without ash, I have to say.. Most of you don't know what you're talking about. If you're doing badly with Loki then the problem sits by you and not Loki, Loki is a utility frame that controls the battlefield and disrupts the enemies not the one that kills everything.. You have to play with an active mind to properly use Loki, if you were shot while invis then it's your fault for running through live fire.. And yes Loki has a super long invis but he must be build for range and energy efficiency.. Disarm Loki is best Loki.. If you're playing Loki purely for his invis then you're either playing solo exterminate or you're playing him wrong since you're bringing nothing to the squad with an invis build. 

You say that he is about utility, and that Loki isn’t suppose to be the one killing things.

So why pick him in the first place?

Plenty of other frames that can provide utility and kill things themselves.

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5 minutes ago, Sibernetika said:

As a Loki main that loves Ivara and believes you can't spell trash without ash, I have to say.. Most of you don't know what you're talking about. If you're doing badly with Loki then the problem sits by you and not Loki, Loki is a utility frame that controls the battlefield and disrupts the enemies not the one that kills everything.. You have to play with an active mind to properly use Loki, if you were shot while invis then it's your fault for running through live fire.. And yes Loki has a super long invis but he must be build for range and energy efficiency.. Disarm Loki is best Loki.. If you're playing Loki purely for his invis then you're either playing solo exterminate or you're playing him wrong since you're bringing nothing to the squad with an invis build. 

Super long duration?

Wit Consitucion,Contiunity,and Augur message you get 21 seconds

With Octavia you get 30 seconds

 

The problem with loki is not his 2 or 4 specifically, but Decoy and Switch Teleport, they are rarely used and have just 1 use.

Edited by -Sentient-
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1 minute ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

Plenty of other frames that can provide utility and kill things themselves.

I'd like to draw attention to this in particular, as there is always a point of "too much of a good thing" when it comes to frame abilities.

Loki is a wonderful stealth frame and has good applications in long term combat with his disarm, but people are right when they mention that his 3 (and to a lesser extent 1) has limited use other than escape or quick movement.

Still a fun and usable frame, but when you consider that his passive is just being able to pretend to be Spider-Man for 60 seconds at a time compared to some other frames, it is clear that Loki has aged. While Loki has aged well compared to some frames, it is only a matter of time before he's in need of some changes and updates, which hopefully will be satisfying to the dedicated fanbase he has.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

His Invis is better?
Honestly, Ivara has the best Invis if you ask me.
She can stay Invis longer than Loki, can rob enemies, use her full kit while invis, doesn't get detected by Lasers (via Augment) & etc.
And this is coming from an Ash Main.

I feel like Loki is slowly (molasses slow) being phased out due to the game simply growing & evolving over time. Much like Nyx, Vauban, & Titania.

Agree. Ash main here too. I feel like Ivara is tops when it comes to invisibility, for the reason you mention above. Her only downside is movement speed, which isn't bad at all if you know how to roll.

Loki is still a really good frame for those that know how to use his abilities i.e. disarming everyone and placing a decoy where enemies can't kill it. But I agree that the game is kind of moving beyond his kit, albeit at a slow pace. 

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