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How to improve Warframe's Monetization model, to make horrible RNG grind in the game less necessary!


Jeronan
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10 hours ago, Jeronan said:

Same with Path of Exile, where Grinding Gear Games is doing really well by just having a Cosmetic items Cash Shop only.

I agree with your general sentiment but path of exile is not just a cosmetic cash shop, the premium stash tabs allow instant listing of items to trade sites (and is the only way to list on xbox) and a lot of convenience for map stash/ currency stash etc. I see poe more as a pay once for a aaa title kind of price and can play for a long time with that investment. 

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2 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Nope. The base design of Warframe is P2W.

The mere fact the game started on the model of 4 deaths a day and PAY to continue playing, or you can't play for 24hrs ... is P2W.

Even the concept of the healing/energy/munition pads is P2W (that's seen in P2W games). It was DESIGNED to be that way.

It's not TOTALLY P2W, but things like you can buy XYZ package and can even bypass MR ratings, shows at it's core the game IS P2W. DE just does it more subtlety than other games with loot boxes or gaming "cards".

There's a big section of gamers that dislike that concept. Cosmetics are fine as it doesn't affect gameplay, but buying gear or even characters ... that gets a chunk of players upset (and they're like that in subscription or FTP games, too).

There's a difference between P2W and just having real money purchases in the game.

For a decent portion of players, the term P2W isn't even applicable in a non-PVP game, because no matter how much money you spend on gear in a PVE game, you aren't actually putting down other players by having it.

Even if that definition isn't used, buying weapons and such in Warframe doesn't make them good, because you can't make a good build without Mods. You could buy every weapon and Warframe in the store the instant you unlock their MR tier, but it won't level them up for you, it won't give you the Mods you need to make them viable. 

Most people consider "pay to win" to mean that the game is either balanced around players spending money, or that spending money gives players an unfair advantage. The latter is obviously not true because Warframe isn't PVP, and the former probably isn't true either, because almost every single item in the game either doesn't have a way to outright bypass grinding for it (eg Relics, Arcanes, Rivens), or the system for grinding it is set up in its own ecosystem. There are definitely some items where the grind is very tedious (eg Mesa, Nidus, Equinox, Hema), but they are the minority, they aren't game-breakingly powerful or essential, and buying them is never pressured upon the player because there aren't any items like that which a player actually needs outside of the obligatory MR increase.

Being able to pay for something doesn't automatically mean that DE is a money-grabbing greed factory. 

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Just now, YUNoJump said:

There's a difference between P2W and just having real money purchases in the game.

For a decent portion of players, the term P2W isn't even applicable in a non-PVP game, because no matter how much money you spend on gear in a PVE game, you aren't actually putting down other players by having it.

Even if that definition isn't used, buying weapons and such in Warframe doesn't make them good, because you can't make a good build without Mods. You could buy every weapon and Warframe in the store the instant you unlock their MR tier, but it won't level them up for you, it won't give you the Mods you need to make them viable. 

Most people consider "pay to win" to mean that the game is either balanced around players spending money, or that spending money gives players an unfair advantage. The latter is obviously not true because Warframe isn't PVP, and the former probably isn't true either, because almost every single item in the game either doesn't have a way to outright bypass grinding for it (eg Relics, Arcanes, Rivens), or the system for grinding it is set up in its own ecosystem. There are definitely some items where the grind is very tedious (eg Mesa, Nidus, Equinox, Hema), but they are the minority, they aren't game-breakingly powerful or essential, and buying them is never pressured upon the player because there aren't any items like that which a player actually needs outside of the obligatory MR increase.

Being able to pay for something doesn't automatically mean that DE is a money-grabbing greed factory. 

Nope. The CONCEPTS in WF are P2W, they just hide it better.

P2W applies to even PvE games. Just because they play against NPCs doesn't take away from P2W concepts. Look at the pads they have in WF, for example. In WoW we have healing and mana potions, but they're on timers. Their use is strictly controlled to NOT give too many "get out of Dodge" exits. In P2W games you're free to use them at any time, because they build into the game NEEDING them (so to buy more). WF hides the "buy more", but by it's very design of using healing and energy pads, it's to the P2W model.

It's not in your face like some P2W games to "buy", but it's programmed into the game to use them freely as they're designed for you to use freely (have no need for so many heal pads with rat-tat-tat; or, death by 1,000 cuts damage, otherwise).

People don't want THEIR game to have the stigma of a P2W tag, but you have to honestly look at how the game is programmed.

WoW isn't a P2W game -- healing/mana pots are on cooldowns.

P2W games -- use them freely people!!!, because so many P2W games exist on that model.

In WoW I ONLY use pots in raids, not because I can't but because what's the point of using them BUT in an emergency?

In WF I carry 100 pads and air charges to stop from dying by 1,000 cuts and rat-tat-tats.

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14 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Nope. The CONCEPTS in WF are P2W, they just hide it better.

P2W applies to even PvE games. Just because they play against NPCs doesn't take away from P2W concepts. Look at the pads they have in WF, for example. In WoW we have healing and mana potions, but they're on timers. Their use is strictly controlled to NOT give too many "get out of Dodge" exits. In P2W games you're free to use them at any time, because they build into the game NEEDING them (so to buy more). WF hides the "buy more", but by it's very design of using healing and energy pads, it's to the P2W model.

It's not in your face like some P2W games to "buy", but it's programmed into the game to use them freely as they're designed for you to use freely (have no need for so many heal pads with rat-tat-tat; or, death by 1,000 cuts damage, otherwise).

People don't want THEIR game to have the stigma of a P2W tag, but you have to honestly look at how the game is programmed.

WoW isn't a P2W game -- healing/mana pots are on cooldowns.

P2W games -- use them freely people!!!, because so many P2W games exist on that model.

In WoW I ONLY use pots in raids, not because I can't but because what's the point of using them BUT in an emergency?

In WF I carry 100 pads and air charges to stop from dying by 1,000 cuts and rat-tat-tats.

Today I learned that Nethack is a P2W game, as is the original System Shock.

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27 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Look at the pads they have in WF, for example. In WoW we have healing and mana potions, but they're on timers. Their use is strictly controlled to NOT give too many "get out of Dodge" exits. In P2W games you're free to use them at any time, because they build into the game NEEDING them (so to buy more). WF hides the "buy more", but by it's very design of using healing and energy pads, it's to the P2W model.

You mean the pads that you can buy from the shop with in game currency that you build with in game resources for absolutely no real money?

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1 minute ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

You mean the pads that you can buy from the shop with in game currency that you build with in game resources for absolutely no real money?

Again...

WoW isn't a P2W game -- health and mana pot usage is strictly controlled. In raids you can ONLY use them ONCE in a typical boss fight.

WF is a P2W game -- health and energy pad usage isn't on cooldowns, and you FREELY can use them at any time (pop 2 of them even at once!) ... because the game was DESIGNED for players used to BUYING healing and energy in P2W games. DE may have wanted to originally charge for them, like other P2W games do.

So in the higher end content playing WF is like this: you can be rezzed 10x even in a fight -- even DPS!!!; and use as many healing and energy pads you want. No SKILL required.

In WoW and EQ/II it's like this: If you die and not a tank or healer, you're watching the raid dead. All rezzes are saved (due to cooldowns) on tanks and healers. You also have only ONE chance to use a healing or mana pot in a typical 4 minute boss fight. Skill required.

It feels WEIRD for non P2W players. It even feels like cheating.

That's why P2W has a negative stigma to it, and especially the concepts behind them.

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1 hour ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Nope. The CONCEPTS in WF are P2W, they just hide it better.

P2W applies to even PvE games. Just because they play against NPCs doesn't take away from P2W concepts. Look at the pads they have in WF, for example. In WoW we have healing and mana potions, but they're on timers. Their use is strictly controlled to NOT give too many "get out of Dodge" exits. In P2W games you're free to use them at any time, because they build into the game NEEDING them (so to buy more). WF hides the "buy more", but by it's very design of using healing and energy pads, it's to the P2W model.

It's not in your face like some P2W games to "buy", but it's programmed into the game to use them freely as they're designed for you to use freely (have no need for so many heal pads with rat-tat-tat; or, death by 1,000 cuts damage, otherwise).

I don't think you've really registered the point that P2W doesn't mean "has things you can buy", P2W for most people is when buying said things is the central aspect of success in the game. If you can easily play the game without buying optional stuff, then the game isn't P2W. If you have to buy stuff to succeed, THEN it's P2W.

WF pads are good consumable support items, but there's a few big things to note before they could feasibly be called "P2W":

1. you don't need to pay real money to use them. You get the blueprint from your Clan, and then they cost (rather plentiful) standard resources to craft, and they take a mere 60 seconds to build. You COULD pay to rush it or buy the resources for whatever reason, but there's absolutely no need to.

2. There are Warframes in the game that provide their own support healing/energy gain for free, and there are Mods you can use to avoid needing to grab as much ammo. These options allow you to circumvent supply pads entirely, without any cost. Even if pads were a plat-only purchase, they wouldn't be P2W because there are free options.

3. They aren't really reliable in the midst of combat unless you drop about 5. They only pulse once every several seconds, so they're most useful when you're hiding in a corner. Additionally, they don't supply energy at all while you're channelling an ability. Someone using pads as regen in a mission is going to do much worse than a player just relying on support Warframes and ammo economy, and that's even before the pad user uses up the 100 pad in-mission supply.

As for Air Support, you can only use a single Charge every 15 minutes, they don't contribute much to the overall course of a mission. No amount of paying changes that.

On another note, I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with the WoW comparisons. WoW and Warframe are incredibly different games, if they both ended up using the same currency system then one of them wouldn't work. Hell, WoW has a cost to play so even if the two games were comparable, different ethics would apply to each one because Warframe NEEDS microtransactions to be able to exist at all.

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4 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

I don't think you've really registered the point that P2W doesn't mean "has things you can buy", P2W for most people is when buying said things is the central aspect of success in the game. If you can easily play the game without buying optional stuff, then the game isn't P2W. If you have to buy stuff to succeed, THEN it's P2W.

WF pads are good consumable support items, but there's a few big things to note before they could feasibly be called "P2W":

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/concept

Free use healing and energy pads is a P2W concept in too many P2W games.

DE designed them as a P2W mechanic in WF.

Because in P2W games you BUY them.

Otherwise, it would have a cooldown timer on it's use so NOT to spam them.

 

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8 hours ago, (PS4)caoshen0625 said:

So do you want to replace the PA with BP, or on top of PA add a BP? and what do you think the grind of Battle pass should be? ofc no more rng but it has to have some grind right? Just curious. 

Okay let me explain:

We will keep the standard PA we have.

On top of that we get a "Prime pass" for 25$ (20$ would be the best) what once the PA arrives gives you the parts of the items you can buy (2 weapons in this case). No grind, you have a pass you get these and can start building.

Also we could have an "Access pass" for 10$ what gives you one weapon/frame from the pack when its released with the difference that you have to do 4 different fissure missions to get the parts then build it.

 

These are cheaper options what still require the building of them and dont come with the extras as plat and such.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Okay let me explain:

We will keep the standard PA we have.

On top of that we get a "Prime pass" for 25$ (20$ would be the best) what once the PA arrives gives you the parts of the items you can buy (2 weapons in this case). No grind, you have a pass you get these and can start building.

Also we could have an "Access pass" for 10$ what gives you one weapon/frame from the pack when its released with the difference that you have to do 4 different fissure missions to get the parts then build it.

 

These are cheaper options what still require the building of them and dont come with the extras as plat and such.

As a player, I'll definitely be tempted to by this Battle pass, hell I even think this is a better option than PA. But this is too good, I think you will be disappointed even if they actually add a BP, cus in reality, the BP has to avoid attract potential PA buyers. Because currently, the core value of PA is not for the plat or the resources saved from crafting the weapons, but the ability to escape the frustrating grind or support the devs. So if you add a much cheaper option with some minor setbacks(to be fair, everything is a minor set back compared to the bs rng grind), a lot of the potential PA buyers gonna choose this, and from DE point of view, you want to minimize this happening. In summary, you have to make sure the income gained from the new BP out weights the income lost from PA, then maximize that gain, which is harder than it sounds.

Furthermore, right now you can buy 370 plats with 20 bucks, and that's more than enough to buy a new prime warframe, and if you wanna flip the market a little bit, or just doing your thing for a week or 2 for the price to drop, you might have enough to buy the whole set. 

So, the BP is not something easy to do, and I think what will happen is gonna be sth like "20 missions will give you a relic" or "30 mission give you a part". The idea is to make it still too grindy for the PA buyers, but not rng grindy(which induce hopelessness lol) so that it attracts free players.

 

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3 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Free use healing and energy pads is a P2W concept in too many P2W games.

 DE designed them as a P2W mechanic in WF.

 Because in P2W games you BUY them.

There is a wider concept called Pay to progress, and only when that said progress gives you an advantage of other players, it becomes P2W.

Warframe is a P2P game, so it has mechanics from P2P concepts.

P2W games are also P2P games, so ofc they use mechanics from P2P.

The difference is Warframe is a co-op pve farm simulator, there is nothing to "win" over other players since there is no competitive environment.

To use the healing pad example:

Warframe; Healing pad heal all your teammates, and the other "team" is computer AI.

P2W games: Healing pad only heals you or all of your teammates, but the other team is also players. 

In summary, saying Warframe use P2W concept cus they both can buy "power-ups" is like saying your genes are inherited from your brother cus you look alike.

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@(PS4)caoshen0625

I thought of the prices based on the current cost of platinum and frames.

The cheapest PA includes 50$ worth of plat (1000p) so i thought if we take that out the whole thing loses half its worth. Same goes for others, if we take out the icons, glypsh, fashion, booster and the plat they are not that valuable but would still provide DE some hefty cash.

Even the variant you said where in x mission we would get guaanteed parts sounds good for me.

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You just felt its grindy because you cannot get the new stuff immediately once its released!~

And about the part where you felt that they force you to pay... Season pass is forcing you to pay... locked behind grinding is not... you can choose to accept you dun get the new stuff immediately.. and then all these frustrated feelings will be gone... 🙂

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22 hours ago, Jeronan said:

Fortnite isn't Pay 2 Win, since you can't buy anything to make you more powerful! All you can buy in Fortnite is Cosmetic stuff and the Battlepass, again, gives you cosmetic unlocks. Avatar, backpack and mining pick skins and (dance) emotes. That's it.

Exactly, so battle pass works in a game with only cosmetics.

Meanwhile in Warframe the pass would be earning weapons, so it would become pay to win.

On 2019-01-08 at 7:46 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

Just tell me how is subsribing to get stuff vs outright buying stuff is different?

It isn't, but in season pass systems that's the only way to get the item. In Warframe you're only ever paying to get it early - you can always get it eventually for free.

So I can buy Mesa Prime or grind for her, but in a battle pass system I pay and still grind (less admittedly) and anyone who doesn't pay can never get her.

22 hours ago, Jeronan said:

since you can literally buy everything for Platinum if you want to.

You can buy it or earn it. Lots can only be bought from other players.

23 hours ago, Jeronan said:

Prime Access and Prime Vault are outright Pay 2 Win packages that give you ready to use Prime Warframes and Weapons. /Shrug

They're really not, for a couple of reasons:

1) you can get the prime frames and weapons without paying.

2) you have a year to get them (though mostly it takes a couple of hours if you target the right relics).

3) there's a player market to get them too, so if you miss a part you can buy it, and if you get a rare/vaulted dupe you can sell it.

So Prime Access is more like skip the grind and get cosmetics - rich players can just buy it but poor players can still get the guns.

That's not how battle passes work - poor players would be locked out, rich players would have a cycle (a quarter or whatever) to grind to get the current things. 

Critically (and this is why I told you to research Skinner Boxes) those rewards still need to be behind an RNG grind, and if you look at the games that do this that grind is usually balanced so that only players that play well for a few hours every day can get the top kit (so it still carries bragging rights).

So Warframe's current model caters to both money poor but time rich players, and money rich players. To excel at battle passes you have to be money rich and time rich, and if you're poor then we're going to constantly show you what you could have if you just paid.

There's a reason why many parents hate Fortnight.

17 hours ago, Jeronan said:

This is marketing psychology 101! A lot more people are willing to spend a couple bucks on Cosmetic items here and there, then big expensive packs that cost 50 - 70 bucks each

Have you seen how most cosmetics, including the player generated Tenno con stuff, works? It's all like that.

23 hours ago, Jeronan said:

Are you even playing this game? Or just a Internet forum warrior lol.

MR21, so midgame I guess.

I really like Warframe's payment model - mostly it really works. There are some leftovers (like relic packs) that don't work, but mostly it's a huge improvement over subscription, battle pass or loot box/gambling models. 

Sorry, no offence meant, but I hate the idea of Warframe moving to another monetisation model. What they have works and they'd be mad to mess with it at this point.

I think we'll just agree to disagree.

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This is a grind game, and i hope they will never change that.

But here's a solution to your problem.

Grind some relics/mods, sell them for plat, buy weapon/warframe

My self i cant really play fortuna cause my laptop is worse than a potato, so the other day i sold some stuff via the market and made 1100 plat in just a few hours. Bought the stuff i wanted (for free lol)

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vor 59 Minuten schrieb Insane-Mana:

This is a grind game, and i hope they will never change that.

But here's a solution to your problem.

Grind some relics/mods, sell them for plat, buy weapon/warframe

My self i cant really play fortuna cause my laptop is worse than a potato, so the other day i sold some stuff via the market and made 1100 plat in just a few hours. Bought the stuff i wanted (for free lol)

+1
Warframe has one of the fairest F2P models out there. The only thing you actually have to pay money for is cosmetic items (like Tennogen or Prime Accessories). EVERYTHING ELSE can be obtained without spending a single dime, plus you can trade for the ingame currency (many other F2P don't allow that!).

How much grind you really face depends mostly on yourself, foremost your knowledge of the game and how much time you have committed to the game already (=better gear).

Example Fortuna Vox Solaris Update:
After its release, it took me a Friday night and bit of Saturday, a 3-days-resource-booster (40p), a Smeeta Kavat, about 30x Phase 4 Runs, two Toroid-farm-Runs and 15 mins of fishing to get all the standing for maximum rank and beyond, all the resources for Baruuk, all new amps and the three new Corpus weapons. I'm talking about 5-8h farming here - THAT'S NOTHING! The rest was just cashing in the daily standing and recipes for the next few days.

Example New Prime Updates
Which game allows you to prepare for the content and actually boost your RNG?! The clever Tenno max out the standing of their chosen three syndicate factions, hoard medallions and buy a few dozen key packs from their factions on release date and do RAD-runs for the rarer stuff. The few items they miss, they can trade on the market. This is the perfect time for a newcomer to make some good platinum. Personally, I was done on day 1, paying less than 300p for missing parts, while getting about the same back for doubles.

Insane-Mana isn't lying about his platinum claims. Burning a few dozen keys in Void (capture and exterminate are very popular for that) and using warframe.market will help you a lot with buffing your Platinums with trades. Of course, you will be restricted in the number of trades as newcomer, and still - you can trade pretty early.

The OP plays since September 2018, probably hasn't the benefits of high MR and still has to learn the ropes and spend some time playing the game.

Ninjas play free! If you don't play for free, you're no Ninja yet :tongue:
P.S. No, you don't have to be MR26 to count as Ninja.

Edited by Toran
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Lets not degenerate the topic into Pay 2 Win vs Pay 2 Advance warzone.

Both expressions are exactly the same. P2W expression is often used in PVP focused games and P2A expression is often used in PVE focused games.

Warframe is very much a Pay 2 Advance game, but since it actually has PVP it's valid to use Pay 2 Win expression as well, hence why I used it...it doesn't matter. It's just what you want to call it, they both have the exact same meaning and end result.

So lets not burry this topic in and endless Pay 2 Win vs Pay 2 Advance war of words... /shrug

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1 hour ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

It isn't, but in season pass systems that's the only way to get the item. In Warframe you're only ever paying to get it early - you can always get it eventually for free.

So I can buy Mesa Prime or grind for her, but in a battle pass system I pay and still grind (less admittedly) and anyone who doesn't pay can never get her.

But it doesnt need to work like that!

Look at my comment upper in the thread, this is what i think of when i say we could get a "pass" system:

5 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Okay let me explain:

We will keep the standard PA we have.

On top of that we get a "Prime pass" for 25$ (20$ would be the best) what once the PA arrives gives you the parts of the items you can buy (2 weapons in this case). No grind, you have a pass you get these and can start building.

Also we could have an "Access pass" for 10$ what gives you one weapon/frame from the pack when its released with the difference that you have to do 4 different fissure missions to get the parts then build it.

 

These are cheaper options what still require the building of them and dont come with the extras as plat and such.

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Jeronan said:

Lets not degenerate the topic into Pay 2 Win vs Pay 2 Advance warzone.

Both expressions are exactly the same

But Warframe is neither. Pay 2 win is literally paying money to be better than or to get an advantage over others. 

Warframe is pay 2 rush. Don't feel like waiting three days for that Warframe to build? Rush it. All you are buying is time. Some people have more time than others. But you're definently not getting an advantage over others by rushing anything. Especially since Warframe is primarily a PvE game.

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2 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

But Warframe is neither. Pay 2 win is literally paying money to be better than or to get an advantage over others. 

Warframe is pay 2 rush. Don't feel like waiting three days for that Warframe to build? Rush it. All you are buying is time. Some people have more time than others. But you're definently not getting an advantage over others by rushing anything. Especially since Warframe is primarily a PvE game.

HAHAHA..... seriously.

Pay 2 Rush. I guess we now have a third expression to add.  Any more alternatives you can come up with?  I think I am just going to stop responding to you, as this is just getting too silly beyond words and a total waste of my time.

Have a nice day. 

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3 minutes ago, Jeronan said:

HAHAHA..... seriously.

Pay 2 Rush. I guess we now have a third expression to add.  Any more alternatives you can come up with?  I think I am just going to stop responding to you, as this is just getting too silly beyond words and a total waste of my time.

Have a nice day. 

Yes, I am serious. As I have said before and how the devs have said it, in order to keep Warframe a free game they have to do certain things like time gate. You can pay to rush getting items. I've done it a few times, but I've also waited as well. The grind walls in Warframe are not as terrible as other people have said, everyone just seems to want to hurry, they have to have everything when it first comes out. That's why the option is there to buy it if you want. There are no alternatives, that's just the facts.

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4 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Yes, I am serious. As I have said before and how the devs have said it, in order to keep Warframe a free game they have to do certain things like time gate. You can pay to rush getting items. I've done it a few times, but I've also waited as well. The grind walls in Warframe are not as terrible as other people have said, everyone just seems to want to hurry, they have to have everything when it first comes out. That's why the option is there to buy it if you want. There are no alternatives, that's just the facts.

I have read a lot of stupid things in my life, but you, my friend.....I am totally speechless. You earn the troll of the day award today.

Maybe, when you have the time, pick up a dictionary. Pay 2 Rush and Pay 2 Advance. It is exactly the same! /huge facepalm.

The moment you click that little "Rush" button on the Foundry, you advance and craft is finished.   When you buy a (Prime) Warframe from market, you instantly skip the huge grind and thus instantly advance in the game.  Hence, the expression Pay 2 Advance.  If you want to call it Pay 2 Rush. Fine. It's all the same. Whatever floats your boat my friend. lol.

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9 minutes ago, Jeronan said:

I have read a lot of stupid things in my life, but you, my friend.....I am totally speechless. You earn the troll of the day award today.

Maybe, when you have the time, pick up a dictionary. Pay 2 Rush and Pay 2 Advance. It is exactly the same! /huge facepalm.

The moment you click that little "Rush" button on the Foundry, you advance and craft is finished.   When you buy a (Prime) Warframe from market, you instantly skip the huge grind and thus instantly advance in the game.  Hence, the expression Pay 2 Advance.  If you want to call it Pay 2 Rush. Fine. It's all the same. Whatever floats your boat my friend. lol.

Well the way pay 2 advance sounds like, is that you are paying to advance in the story. Like pay 50 plat to skip the sequence to go directly to the end planet. When you pay plat to rush a warframe or weapon you're not really advancing in the game at all. You still have to level up said weapon and Warframe. 

But as to what you said earlier, Pay 2 win is not the same as pay 2 rush. Big difference between the two.

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Here's another one, though keep in mind im not bashing or hating on new players.

Ever since this game has gotten allot of positive media attention it gained a huge amount of players in a short time. As some one who's been playing for a few years i really notice the difference. Just a little over a year ago it used to be i would just join a defense or survival mission and play that mission with 3 randoms for about 30 to 40 minutes. When it was a fissure mission more often than not every one would have key's. Today i join those same missions and people leave after 10 waves, or even 10 minutes survival. This is not because those players are bad, but because they are new.

Now some new players will grind through it like we did, but some want instant access to every thing the game has and complain about stuff like pay to win, which is not in this game at all. But imagine if lets say after 50 hours you decide you like the game where able to buy every thing the game has to offer then what? Now you have every thing, but nothing to play for...

Believe me I've been there and that is the main reason i quit the game from time to time.But every time i come back because there new weapons and frames to get, and every time i come back the game has changed/evolved. No im not saying the game is perfect, and yes we should constructive provide feedback But the core of the game is good. The game was released in 2013 and still growing, that would not have happend if the monitisation was bad or the core game was bad.

Here's my tip for the new players out there:

Be patient, take your time and just enjoy the game. When you need help or dont understand something just ask a fellow tenno, you will find most are happy to help.

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58 minutes ago, Insane-Mana said:

Here's another one, though keep in mind im not bashing or hating on new players.

Ever since this game has gotten allot of positive media attention it gained a huge amount of players in a short time. As some one who's been playing for a few years i really notice the difference. Just a little over a year ago it used to be i would just join a defense or survival mission and play that mission with 3 randoms for about 30 to 40 minutes. When it was a fissure mission more often than not every one would have key's. Today i join those same missions and people leave after 10 waves, or even 10 minutes survival. This is not because those players are bad, but because they are new.

 

1. New players don't have a stash of 100's of Relics and are able to grind a ton of waves endlessly. Most often have a handful of relics and just want to do one or two unlocks at most and then want to do something else.

2. I myself often don't want to play more than 10 waves of Defense or 10 waves of fissure (2 relic unlocks) or 10 excavations at a time and want a short break after that or do something else. I am just not that of a mindless grind kinda guy. My time is limited and I want to enjoy the game doing different activities every night in the time I have and not being stuck in one instance the whole evening doing the same thing over and over again like a mindless robot.

So it has nothing to do with just new players. Everyone is different and everyone plays the game differently and want to enjoy it in a different way.

One group of players can mindlessly grind the same instance forever all night, while others (like me) can't stand it and want to do different activities within the game.

Respect that and if you can't, well join a like minded Clan and run fissures either solo or with clan mates that want to do an evening long grind. You cannot demand this when joining the random queue!

Edited by (NSW)Jeronan
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