[DE]Helen

PSA: Minimum Supported Specs Changes in February!

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1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

Um.... MS gave windows 10 away when it was first released, there was nothing stopping you getting it and then going back to windows whatever you're using...

 

I also love it when people say 'but I can't afford to upgrade' every 2 years etc when the truth is very few people actually do this, most save for a period of time then upgrade in stages or as a whole.   The reality of pc gaming is if you can't afford to upgrade when you can no longer play a game then you have to accept that you can't play the game anymore.  It's not like you can expect the games to just 'wait for you to upgrade', you need to understand that at some point you won't be able to play 'current games' if you can't upgrade.  

And $500 isn't a lot when it comes to pc's, hell I looked at the cost of what I would deem a worthwhile upgrade and I was hitting £5000.... (now that IS expensive and admittedly overkill for the game but not for my work)...

If, as I'm guessing, you live in South America then It's unfortunate that you live in a country where the economy sucks but that's not DE's fault and you can't expect DE to just stand still when more 'visually appealing' games are coming out and to be fair this game needed an increase in it's minimum specs since before PoE came out, let alone now we have fortuna.  

And to be fair I have hardware that is over 10 years old (old socket 939 x2's) that actually hits the requirements that DE have listed on the first page, now I wouldn't use it for the game as the performance sucks but if your pc can't hit the requirements then I'm not even sure your pc is up to playing the game smoothly in the first place.

EULA forbids using the previous version if you used the free (or sneaky forced update from Win7,8, or 8.1) to Win 10. You could however, not authenticate for a bit; as it doesn't shut everything down as with previous versions  though this is frowned upon it is not forbidden and Microsoft will mostly add fun watermarks to your stuff for a while. Windows 10 64 bit upgrades are mostly an issue about the privacy issues and always on nature that Microsoft tries to force upon the user. Use it if you must, but its not an easy choice or at least shouldn't be for someone.

While $500 dollars might not be considered a princely sum for a gaming quality PC in the States and a few countries; it is very impractical to assume that everyone has such spare disposable income for luxury purchases when overall employment is taking a massive nosedive across the globe - including the States, Europe, and the rest of the Americas. I think it would be more useful to try to find alternatives or suggestions for players now seeking upgrades or being forced to leave Warframe - its just simple common sense - no one wants to lose community members.

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7 hours ago, Urlan said:

EULA forbids using the previous version if you used the free (or sneaky forced update from Win7,8, or 8.1) to Win 10. You could however, not authenticate for a bit; as it doesn't shut everything down as with previous versions  though this is frowned upon it is not forbidden and Microsoft will mostly add fun watermarks to your stuff for a while. Windows 10 64 bit upgrades are mostly an issue about the privacy issues and always on nature that Microsoft tries to force upon the user. Use it if you must, but its not an easy choice or at least shouldn't be for someone.

While $500 dollars might not be considered a princely sum for a gaming quality PC in the States and a few countries; it is very impractical to assume that everyone has such spare disposable income for luxury purchases when overall employment is taking a massive nosedive across the globe - including the States, Europe, and the rest of the Americas. I think it would be more useful to try to find alternatives or suggestions for players now seeking upgrades or being forced to leave Warframe - its just simple common sense - no one wants to lose community members.

The EULA prevents them both being used at the same time, not using windows 7 instead of windows 10, last time I checked. 

If you can't upgrade then you need to accept that you can't continue to play if the requirements change to above your pc, warframe isn't the first game to change requirements when it has a 'dlc' (fortuna is equivalent to a dlc imo) and it's not like the requirements need the latest and greatest hardware or anything either.  As I said I've got hardware which will fulfil the changes but is no good for running warframe smoothly. 

Think about it another way ... Windows 7 was released in 2009 and discontinued in 2015, dx10 came out in 2006 and was superseded in 2009 when windows 7 came out and if you're running with less that 4GB of ram in this day and age then I'm sorry but you need to get with the times, 4GB has been bare minimum for a LONG time, hell most people see 8-16GB as a minimum for a gaming machine these days.   Even in worst case scenarios that has given users 9 YEARS to save for an upgrade...

Actually I see this change as common sense, if you play on PC there will come a point when your pc will not be strong enough.  In fact I've been saying we need to have higher minimum specs, not just the software side, since before PoE because we all know what it's like when a toaster ends up being our host due to the shoddy host code (yes this needs fixing too). 

Yes we might lose some players but DE is a business and they need to appeal to the players that spend money on plat etc so from a business perspective they're not likely going lose much from the upgraded requirements, the odds are the same people who can't afford to upgrade won't be paying into the game (or if they are they need to get their priorities right, that money could go towards a pc upgrade...).  Not to mention the most simple reason for the upgrade.... they need the extra ram for future game upgrades and dx9 doesn't do what they need and requires specific dev hacks to get things working etc(they've covered this stuff in a devstream)...

You just can't expect DE to keep supporting things that even the original manufacturers aren't supporting any more. 

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26 minutes ago, RejuuPL said:

i have to say bye bye to my warframe :C (i dont have 64-bit system) 

 

Have you checked to see if you can run 64bit os.... most hardware in the last 10 years should supports 64bit (there are a few low end exceptions, but they're not good enough for warframe anyway)

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3 hours ago, LSG501 said:

The EULA prevents them both being used at the same time, not using windows 7 instead of windows 10, last time I checked. 

If you can't upgrade then you need to accept that you can't continue to play if the requirements change to above your pc, warframe isn't the first game to change requirements when it has a 'dlc' (fortuna is equivalent to a dlc imo) and it's not like the requirements need the latest and greatest hardware or anything either.  As I said I've got hardware which will fulfil the changes but is no good for running warframe smoothly. 

Think about it another way ... Windows 7 was released in 2009 and discontinued in 2015, dx10 came out in 2006 and was superseded in 2009 when windows 7 came out and if you're running with less that 4GB of ram in this day and age then I'm sorry but you need to get with the times, 4GB has been bare minimum for a LONG time, hell most people see 8-16GB as a minimum for a gaming machine these days.   Even in worst case scenarios that has given users 9 YEARS to save for an upgrade...

Actually I see this change as common sense, if you play on PC there will come a point when your pc will not be strong enough.  In fact I've been saying we need to have higher minimum specs, not just the software side, since before PoE because we all know what it's like when a toaster ends up being our host due to the shoddy host code (yes this needs fixing too). 

Yes we might lose some players but DE is a business and they need to appeal to the players that spend money on plat etc so from a business perspective they're not likely going lose much from the upgraded requirements, the odds are the same people who can't afford to upgrade won't be paying into the game (or if they are they need to get their priorities right, that money could go towards a pc upgrade...).  Not to mention the most simple reason for the upgrade.... they need the extra ram for future game upgrades and dx9 doesn't do what they need and requires specific dev hacks to get things working etc(they've covered this stuff in a devstream)...

You just can't expect DE to keep supporting things that even the original manufacturers aren't supporting any more. 

Again, the info from last you checked is sadly incorrect. If you have used those previous free updates, it takes the activation for the old version you came from. By the Win 10 EULA, you are incapable of using the previous version and must delete all backups. The game hasn't been able to run on 4 GB alone without glitches for a while primarily because using features that are incompatible with standard 32 bit OS installs and GPU integration. This is has nothing to do with using Windows 10 as it has 32 bit versions - in fact if coming from 32 bit Win 7 - you should be using Win 10 32 bit according to the EULA - though if you installed and made re-installation media you would be allowed to use the 64 bit version. No, the problem of Win 10, is its bad policies and privacy features. A major consideration being how without disabling almost everything that makes Win 10 unique, Win 10 will phones home everything personable. Its not anything about thinking about it another way, as that is a cop-out; but rather knowing the drawbacks and technical limitations. This is of course taking into consideration that while every Windows version has had growing pains, previous versions didn't have an automatically installable update that would wipe your personal document folders and files from your storage media. I think you are being quite unrealistic about both player density and the consequences of cutting support for a large number of players - even going by this and the previous threads started by DE on this subject. No, the only practical reason to get Win 10 is that you must; and that is a requirement of the newest CPUs and motherboard series due to arranged agreements with Intel and AMD to discontinue support of the versions of Windows that do not feature monetizations of personal user data.

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47 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Again, the info from last you checked is sadly incorrect. If you have used those previous free updates, it takes the activation for the old version you came from. By the Win 10 EULA, you are incapable of using the previous version and must delete all backups. The game hasn't been able to run on 4 GB alone without glitches for a while primarily because using features that are incompatible with standard 32 bit OS installs and GPU integration. This is has nothing to do with using Windows 10 as it has 32 bit versions - in fact if coming from 32 bit Win 7 - you should be using Win 10 32 bit according to the EULA - though if you installed and made re-installation media you would be allowed to use the 64 bit version. No, the problem of Win 10, is its bad policies and privacy features. A major consideration being how without disabling almost everything that makes Win 10 unique, Win 10 will phones home everything personable. Its not anything about thinking about it another way, as that is a cop-out; but rather knowing the drawbacks and technical limitations. This is of course taking into consideration that while every Windows version has had growing pains, previous versions didn't have an automatically installable update that would wipe your personal document folders and files from your storage media. I think you are being quite unrealistic about both player density and the consequences of cutting support for a large number of players - even going by this and the previous threads started by DE on this subject.

No, the only practical reason to get Win 10 is that you must; and that is a requirement of the newest CPUs and motherboard series due to arranged agreements with Intel and AMD to discontinue support of the versions of Windows that do not feature monetizations of personal user data.

But you don't actually NEED windows 10 for this change of requirements for warframe..so it's kind of a mute issue. 

And you do realise most of those 'privacy issues' you keep mentioning were back ported to windows 7 and 8 with 'critical updates' about 6 months after windows 10 was released.  At least on windows 10 we know they're there and we need to turn them off. 

There is very little 'phone home' with personable information unless you specifically set it up that way..

And you are pretty ill informed when it comes to the wiping documents in an update, there was a very specific set of circumstances required to trigger that 'bug', something most home users wouldn't have been doing. 

I know it's the done thing to hate on windows 10 but you need to get your information accruate before trying to 'scare people' off of windows 10.  If I can use it (10 pro x64) in an environment where NDA's are a necessity I'm sure it's more than secure enough for a home user. 

The funny thing is that you're likely someone who uses the likes of instagram, facebook, google search and in all likelihood android, all of which are far more intrusive into our privacy than windows 10. 

I'm also not being unrealistic, the simple fact is that the current minimum requirements are not good enough to play the game, they need to be updated...if you haven't upgraded your pc or at least been saving in the last 10 years then you need to accept that your hardware is antiquated in pc terms and will not be fully supported anymore.  I don't expect my old hardware to last indefinitely, at some point it will be outdated and as such I save for this event and upgrade as necessary. 

 

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5 hours ago, LSG501 said:

But you don't actually NEED windows 10 for this change of requirements for warframe..so it's kind of a mute issue. 

And you do realise most of those 'privacy issues' you keep mentioning were back ported to windows 7 and 8 with 'critical updates' about 6 months after windows 10 was released.  At least on windows 10 we know they're there and we need to turn them off. 

There is very little 'phone home' with personable information unless you specifically set it up that way..

And you are pretty ill informed when it comes to the wiping documents in an update, there was a very specific set of circumstances required to trigger that 'bug', something most home users wouldn't have been doing. 

I know it's the done thing to hate on windows 10 but you need to get your information accruate before trying to 'scare people' off of windows 10.  If I can use it (10 pro x64) in an environment where NDA's are a necessity I'm sure it's more than secure enough for a home user. 

The funny thing is that you're likely someone who uses the likes of instagram, facebook, google search and in all likelihood android, all of which are far more intrusive into our privacy than windows 10. 

I'm also not being unrealistic, the simple fact is that the current minimum requirements are not good enough to play the game, they need to be updated...if you haven't upgraded your pc or at least been saving in the last 10 years then you need to accept that your hardware is antiquated in pc terms and will not be fully supported anymore.  I don't expect my old hardware to last indefinitely, at some point it will be outdated and as such I save for this event and upgrade as necessary. 

 

Indeed, for now, you can use Windows 7 64 bit. As as has been said. Windows 7 received Telemetry settings in tune with Windows 10 during the Security update that disabled the forced "free update" that just so happened to coincide with the end of the free in place update. That said, for Windows 7 this can easily be turned off, and doesn't automatically phone home; unlike Windows 10. In fact, any turning off of Windows phoning home information (easily checked by watching router traffic) is re-enabled anytime the system needs to update. To wit, to make Windows 10 not send to Microsoft any searches local or Edge, sound based talking if microphone enabled, and records of new files since last backups you have to disable Microsoft Store; Cortana; and automatic updates as well as the OS recovery assistant. In addition you need to go through outside sites to turn off data collection services - since the OS always will try to comminicate with an azure server, Microsoft stored the privacy settings off of the OS in some cases. Turn off Telemetry functions which will turn off automatic updates as well, but if savvy you can break updates via the registry but then again if that is the case, you might as well be using Windows 7 after its support runs out. Of course, turning off automatic updates and only manually updating switches you over to what Microsoft calls Update rail C, or techs might call live beta testing. Of course, you can check most of this stuff through basic diagnostic work or search the numerous sites that have put work into addressing this situation either with their own tools - like Spybot Search and Destroy's Safer Networking - FSecure, or even Kaspersky (though fallen out of favor recently.) Its not scaring folk off of Windows 10, its informing them of what they are getting into.

Nope, I am afraid you are incorrect about how connected I am on social media; not really a surprise though; considering statistics - most folk that utilize the internet have some social service they are sharing information on. Course, you are partially right about Android devices, many can be setup to by default harvest significant information - not as much currently as the short lived Windows 10 phone or Iphone but still a battery wasting, privacy worrying amount. For some, like yourself, this is likely not a concern; but you can turn many of these settings off, if the model allows. Some might need rooting to fully take this annoying much out; but that is sometimes considered worth it anyway for power users of such phones. Bring up such Linux based OS though, the best comparison is actually Ubuntuu. Canonical has implemented many of the same settings that Microsoft has, and ironically did some of it before Microsoft put them in Windows 10! This like with Microsoft, was trying to monetize elements of the OS to improve the profit stream. One particular element prior was how they partnered with Amazon to feed Amazon a copy of all local or online searches done on the OS - resulted in funny situations where Amazon would try to sell you products with similar names to Linux commands. Sadly, this does also effect any Linux distro that uses Ubuntuu updates - the standard Linux Mint for example - though the Debian port is not affected for those that don't mind that.

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1 hour ago, Urlan said:

Indeed, for now, you can use Windows 7 64 bit. As as has been said. Windows 7 received Telemetry settings in tune with Windows 10 during the Security update that disabled the forced "free update" that just so happened to coincide with the end of the free in place update. That said, for Windows 7 this can easily be turned off, and doesn't automatically phone home; unlike Windows 10. In fact, any turning off of Windows phoning home information (easily checked by watching router traffic) is re-enabled anytime the system needs to update. To wit, to make Windows 10 not send to Microsoft any searches local or Edge, sound based talking if microphone enabled, and records of new files since last backups you have to disable Microsoft Store; Cortana; and automatic updates as well as the OS recovery assistant. In addition you need to go through outside sites to turn off data collection services - since the OS always will try to comminicate with an azure server, Microsoft stored the privacy settings off of the OS in some cases. Turn off Telemetry functions which will turn off automatic updates as well, but if savvy you can break updates via the registry but then again if that is the case, you might as well be using Windows 7 after its support runs out. Of course, turning off automatic updates and only manually updating switches you over to what Microsoft calls Update rail C, or techs might call live beta testing. Of course, you can check most of this stuff through basic diagnostic work or search the numerous sites that have put work into addressing this situation either with their own tools - like Spybot Search and Destroy's Safer Networking - FSecure, or even Kaspersky (though fallen out of favor recently.) Its not scaring folk off of Windows 10, its informing them of what they are getting into.

Nope, I am afraid you are incorrect about how connected I am on social media; not really a surprise though; considering statistics - most folk that utilize the internet have some social service they are sharing information on. Course, you are partially right about Android devices, many can be setup to by default harvest significant information - not as much currently as the short lived Windows 10 phone or Iphone but still a battery wasting, privacy worrying amount. For some, like yourself, this is likely not a concern; but you can turn many of these settings off, if the model allows. Some might need rooting to fully take this annoying much out; but that is sometimes considered worth it anyway for power users of such phones. Bring up such Linux based OS though, the best comparison is actually Ubuntuu. Canonical has implemented many of the same settings that Microsoft has, and ironically did some of it before Microsoft put them in Windows 10! This like with Microsoft, was trying to monetize elements of the OS to improve the profit stream. One particular element prior was how they partnered with Amazon to feed Amazon a copy of all local or online searches done on the OS - resulted in funny situations where Amazon would try to sell you products with similar names to Linux commands. Sadly, this does also effect any Linux distro that uses Ubuntuu updates - the standard Linux Mint for example - though the Debian port is not affected for those that don't mind that.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for keeping myself fairly 'private' as well but I think you need to go see a specialist, it seems your paranoia is getting the better of you...

Edited by LSG501
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2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Don't get me wrong I'm all for keeping myself fairly 'private' as well but I think you need to go see a specialist, it seems your paranoia is getting the better of you...

I am a specialist. At least if we are talking about Windows based systems; their maintenance, repair, and administration. If you are talking about mentally, well I am sure we all need some of that or could benefit from it at times. That said, I think the most benefit we could serve to the discussion of outgoing support for older software and hardware would be identifying both cheap and effective upgrade paths. While they won't be the best fit for all players going forward, I have recommended some AMD APU based systems or utilizing still relatively recent hardware to better than average Warframe performance with ideally lower cost. What would you recommend hardware wise for players that are going to likely need a full platform replacement for less than the $500 price point?

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1 minute ago, Urlan said:

I am a specialist. At least if we are talking about Windows based systems; their maintenance, repair, and administration. If you are talking about mentally, well I am sure we all need some of that or could benefit from it at times. That said, I think the most benefit we could serve to the discussion of outgoing support for older software and hardware would be identifying both cheap and effective upgrade paths. While they won't be the best fit for all players going forward, I have recommended some AMD APU based systems or utilizing still relatively recent hardware to better than average Warframe performance with ideally lower cost. What would you recommend hardware wise for players that are going to likely need a full platform replacement for less than the $500 price point?

I wouldn't be recommending a $500 upgrade, it's a false economy as you'll likely be in the same situation as you are now a year or so down the line.

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Just now, LSG501 said:

I wouldn't be recommending a $500 upgrade, it's a false economy as you'll likely be in the same situation as you are now a year or so down the line.

That situation can present itself yes, depending on what hardware you are buying into. Not as hard to escape with just parts here and there, but given the nature of a full platform upgrade, it can. In this case though, it would likely have to be a sub $500 budget path. Since we are dealing with an international audience, it makes sense to look at what works best for the buck and move from there.

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9 hours ago, Urlan said:

That situation can present itself yes, depending on what hardware you are buying into. Not as hard to escape with just parts here and there, but given the nature of a full platform upgrade, it can. In this case though, it would likely have to be a sub $500 budget path. Since we are dealing with an international audience, it makes sense to look at what works best for the buck and move from there.

Well some of the international audience have already stated that $500 is expensive.... which in all honesty is due to their economy being so screwed up.  There is literally nothing we can do to fix that.

Edited by LSG501
seemed to be missing some letters

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Will this changes remove problems with joining host on public games (right now, only way to solve it is playing on directx 9 only)

 

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I bet u guy's didn't understand directx9 is the best performance while dx10 and 11 is actually much worse

In mid february we can say goodbye dx9 hello lags and stability of lags

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1 hour ago, Gloomyara said:

I bet u guy's didn't understand directx9 is the best performance while dx10 and 11 is actually much worse

In mid february we can say goodbye dx9 hello lags and stability of lags

DX11 performs better than DX9 unless you turn on DX11 specific features with the main difference between both being that DX11 precach more data in order to do less R/W orders per CPU cycle.
DX11 can only reduce performance on machiens with the alrady absolutly minimum specs that cant allocate more than 4gb data on the ram memory (because either x32 OS, x32 executable or less than 8gb ram memory).

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My potato laptop can't work on DX10, why just not to rework function of DX9 special for Potato players?

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On 2019-01-21 at 2:05 PM, LSG501 said:

Have you checked to see if you can run 64bit os.... most hardware in the last 10 years should supports 64bit (there are a few low end exceptions, but they're not good enough for warframe anyway)

i can on some of them but i think warframe wont gonna work at 32 when its gonna be 64-bit system

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I just finished a tridolon run when this update popped up. When we extracted, we were teleported back to the orbiter and no reward was given. All rewards are gone and the reward table showed the ones of the previous mission. Thanks I guess?

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On 2019-01-19 at 2:36 PM, pjh64 said:

Far better when it comes to spying on you and your privacy. Really, it's absolutely sure that it will stop, if you just kindly ask for it...It is not as if Win10 was an OS that would ever do anything unwanted or hidden. After all it should definitely be called the new linux.

 

 

 

if one knows a bit about operating systems in general and windows in particular, it's easy enough to stop any 'spying' - at least from the OS... about all the 'installed' malware that one might have spying, one should ofc do something else.

as much as i like linux, i don't see the day coming when it can topple windows from it's throne... neither will MacOS (which is actually a really nice OS too - also based on unix, btw). so, i rather deal with what cards i got and make microsoft peeping tom as blind as possible - even if that means to forego some of the 'QoL features' from win10 ^^)

On 2019-01-19 at 12:21 AM, axlar2 said:

I am currently running linux and am able to play warframe from steam almost hassle free. There are a few issues, like the sound not working correctly, but other than that it works fine. Currently I'm playing in 1080p and getting 100+ fps on a amd rx 580 with almost maxed settings in the more demanding areas of fortuna.

So if anyone is considering switching operating system, know that it is possible to switch to linux and play warframe from there, given that your GPU supports vulkan.

good on you - for me it runs with too much hassle atm. running it in an emulation or a VM is ofc an option - for those who like to tinker around a bit. still, i rather see a real port to linux that using crutches like that. and since i have not much against MS-products and know my job well too, i can save my privacy on a win10 pretty good... but than again, this is my gaming rig without much interesting data for MS to gather, analyse or sell. everything really interesting i run linux ^^)

 

On 2019-01-19 at 7:53 AM, -Temp0- said:

But consider this.

Its not your business. Not only new OS costs like a maserati but theres literally NO reason to change whatever is not broken. And windows 7 is not broken.

funny though it didn't cost me anything - and i use the professional version too. ofc, for all those who weren't able to get the licence for win10 for free in a timespan of one year, it's a problem. i didn't even had to use win 10 right away because of that. and if MS is true to its word that win10 will be 'the last windows ever' (or more like the OS will be modular extended now - as it already was twice since release). and if not, i'm pretty sure i can, again, 'upgrade' my licence for free (or a few bucks only).

btw, this won't ever work with the OEM-versions (with one exeption)... so, i suggest that anyone who buys a new rig, do so without preinstalled windows and instead buys a 'normal' version that isn't locked to the bios/uefi chip and can ported to any new machine by the usual way (the annoying telephone methode...) and will therefore likely be upgradeable too if ever the need arise again.

oh, and ofc the claim it costed me nothing is not fully correct... i did buy the windows 7 ultimate when it was released - but luckily, since i'm from germany, i could get my hands on a much cheaper, separatly sold OEM version of it (for MS was forced to allow this in germany years back). funny enough, the few 'limitations' of no support from MS that gone with that OEM version, are no longer in place after upgrading the licence to win8 years back... MS is truely silly at times.

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I am not concerned with my pc specs, I know it can handle it. That is not the issue. The issue is the only way to circumvent warframe's "Connection to the Host has been lost" bug during multiplayer missions is to disable DX10. Are you fixing this issue? 90% of people using Dx 9 is because of your host bug. If you force me to use Dx 10 and 11 the least you could do is fix the reason I use dx9  to begin with.

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On 2019-01-07 at 1:43 PM, Ryme said:

Operating systems that Microsoft no longer support? Please don't force us to use Win 10.

I 100% agree. I plan to play on Linux exclusively though, I already have 99% of my games on Linux.

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