MarrikBroom

How about removing the mod packs and other noob traps from the in game store?

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I'm not talking change them so that they're 'nice to have' mods (streamline, continuity, etc etc.) I'm saying remove them altogether. Along with the mod packs, remove the plat to credits, the orokin cell blueprint (seriously, 100 plat for that thing? In ye olden days that made more sense to have but as is? No. No it does not make a bit of sense.)

Those existing are relics of a bygone age and to leave them in any form feels predatory. So please. We have plenty of things to spend plat on as is, especially as newbies. We don't need those packs to exist.

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Reworking the whole market may even be a necessity at that point. There's just so much stuff that isn't right.

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30 minutes ago, Badgerlad said:

Agreed, they're no less scummy than the kubrow randomizer that was pulled.

Wasn't that something that only lasted a few days before getting removed because someone spent to much money on it?

aside from that they really could do with reworking the market. when I first came along, I played the game up until you enter the orbiter, it was there which I saw just how much had a price tag on it for platinum.

This was actually where I said 'Nope' and deleted the game completely since I thought it was a pay to play game. It was only after a few months which my friends managed to coax me into playing it again.

ever since then I've loved this game so much, but there's no denying that the market is really alluding and can cause people to walk away from the game.

Please DE, for the sake of your game, fix the market so it doesn't trick people into thinking this game is pay to play, it could result in loads of potential customers walking away!

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The entire "predatory" feel is the reason we're trying to have discussions to see how they can best be re-worked to become more helpful. The point of reviewing this and looking at feedback is so that the packs don't have the same feel in the future as they did in the past. 

Nothing has been set in stone as of this point. 

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Indeed, like the mod packs, there are many items that should be removed from the market IMO. From a business model, if barely anyone is purchasing these mod packs, it would not hurt them to remove it. But if they find a lot of people purchase these packs on a regular basis, that may hurt their profits. Newer players don't always know the tricks of the trade and ways to play the game without even having to pay a dime towards it and earning tons of platinum just by playing. The market needs some TLC, like stated previously, because the market is where the money is at. 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

The entire "predatory" feel is the reason we're trying to have discussions to see how they can best be re-worked to become more helpful. The point of reviewing this and looking at feedback is so that the packs don't have the same feel in the future as they did in the past. 

Nothing has been set in stone as of this point. 

I'm concerned that not only do you admit they're predatory, but your stated goal with the changes is to... target them more toward new players? Who won't be familiar with the player-to-player trade system, where they could get these mods cheaper.

No matter what mods you put in those packs, people will undercut it. You're putting effort toward a fruitless endeavor.

Hell, no matter what mods you think these newbies will fall for, I will be ready to hand them out for free as I always have to new players.

There was a time DE understood the generosity of its community.

Edited by Nomicakes
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Posted (edited)

Why? How can you make mods like that? There's nothing salvageable in the current pack, mods drop in the hundreds, even the rare ones aren't hard to acquire.

Let's say I'll humor this idea that they could be made to work, one thing I can maybe see this working on is putting Riven mods/packs to buy with plat instead, which is essentially the game creating new Rivens for platinum, but even if that will replace it, I don't know about that. I don't think anyone else can know, given what a multi layered mess of RNG Rivens are. It could have some negative effects, or it could have no effect.

Another thing, although I'm not sure of this one, Aura/Melee Stance packs. Maybe Exilus ones. At least it helps that they're not literal trash mods worth a little endo, but it's a very ugly model for something purchasable in a game, even a F2P one.

 

Mod packs though as they are, as well as things like these that still exist right now should just be removed. That's my opinion on this.

Edited by toxicitzi
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Mod packs go away, we don't want lootbox practices in warframe, even if they were useful. Aren't rivens enough of a lootbox? People already complain how you can't improve your RNG on rivens, or lock stats or whatever else, introducing a new form of rng gambling, is a no from me. Remember the genetic scrambler (aka randomize kubrow pattern button).

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

The entire "predatory" feel is the reason we're trying to have discussions to see how they can best be re-worked to become more helpful. The point of reviewing this and looking at feedback is so that the packs don't have the same feel in the future as they did in the past. 

Nothing has been set in stone as of this point. 

No matter what price you label and rework these mod packs, they will still be noob bait.

There's a lot of experienced players and veterans helping noobies and giving basic and even "good" mods to them for FREE. Mods such as Serration, Split chamber, Hell's chamber etc. Basically mandatory base mods for builds. Sometimes i even go a step further and give common acolyte mods (blood rush, body count etc.) for free.

These mod packs just need to be removed. OR...

Move all the mod packs to syndicates that you can buy with standing.

Edited by Ghost_P
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You could add a 1 in 1000 chance of a primed chamber and a 1 in 50 chance of other prime mods (login ones included) nothing like giving people a little more incentive to buy precious loot boxes. Especially if they provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different mods.

Modpacks should not be a thing, even if you'd get 20 random mods for the price of one pack, it would still be not worth it. This is due to the fact that most of the mods in the game aren't worth plat because they aren't useful at all. So, if you really wanted to make the lootbox you call modpack worthwhile, you'd have to make a meta pack which only included the top 50 most-used mods of mr20+ people.

Still, loot boxes are gambling features that are anti-customer, abusing human psychiology in the worst possible way. Sure, it's making EA quite a bunch of money, but I hope to not see DE go down that road, even with warframe's player numbers (and what I'd assume plat sales) currently dropping, because of the wait for actual content worth of wasting your spare time on

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These mod packs are a complete rip off regardless if you make curated packs or not.

Players will always undercut the price of these mods and unless you sell these mods at max rank (which would be considered pay to win in my book) there's no way new players would even be able to use them without significant investment into the game, in which they'll probably earn these mods anyway.

Please for the love of god just scrap mod packs, along with credit and endo bundles, they are never worth the ridiculous amount of platinum, and as a guide I can never recommend these to players.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

he entire "predatory" feel is the reason we're trying to have discussions to see how they can best be re-worked to become more helpful. The point of reviewing this and looking at feedback is so that the packs don't have the same feel in the future as they did in the past.

And complete removal of these things that might have made sense in a prior point in time but feel ultra 'I got ripped off because  I didn't know better.'

Now Then on the idea that you want a few of these things to exist anyway? I have suggestions:

Again. I would Strongly Prefer outright and complete removal so please do not take this as an endorsement.

Make a 'newbie one time only' pack that conveniently costs that fifty starting platinum.

This pack consists of:

100k credits.

ONE mod from the following list: Streamline, Intensify, Continuity, Rage, A single aura mod
ONE mod from the following list: Serration,  any of the 90% elemental primary rifle mods, Multishot

ONE mod from the following: Pistol gambit, Hornet Strike, ONE of the 90% elemental mods.

ONE mod from the following list: ONE melee stance, Any of the 90% elemental mods, Pressure Point, Fury

ONE random three-day booster.

A Warframe slot, and two weapon slots.

Unlocking the entire starting color pallet.

For fifty plat that is a great bargain right? However, that would be a one time purchase.

***

If you wish to have plat to credit conversion? One million credits for 75 plat. That equates to getting carried for a while in the index, something that is easy to have done if you have friends, but this is for people that don't have friends in game don't want to pub and have more plat than time.

***

Mod Packs?:
I really see no use in these things unless you go through the drop lists, look for all the things from sabotage caches, spy rewards, etc, the things with horrifyingly low drop chances (bullet dance being a noteable example,) and gurentee at least one of those. Then you gurentee an aura mod because those are always useful, then you review your lists for the mod packs and get rid of all the garbage 'haha we're padding out our lists and diluting the drop tables' mods because this is someone spending platinum they either traded for or bought. You cut the trash and show people the GOOD worthwhile to have mods.

That said? I'd rather get rid of mod packs, but if mod packs MUST exist? That is how i would do them. Give out good mods, preferrably ranked up at least half way if not all the way because again this is someone spending plat and if you want these things in the store they need to justify their existance and not feel like a scam. You know, like that kubrow slot machine that got yanked after someone slotted in two hundred bucks that puff piece praised you for? If it feels like a scam in hindsight? It's something that must either change to drastically feel good for having bought, or go completely.

***

Rare Resource Builders:
First off. I don't like these. However if they must exist? Make them cost credits instead of plat. that fixes the worst quality of these in that it's making them cost a fairly easy oto get the resource for the blueprint instead of platinum.

For resource bundles? Outright remove. You shouldn't be spamming the buy now button. You should be encouraged to participate in the core gameplay loop that is farming. Which is where resource boosters come into play and already exist in a variety of reasonable price points.

 

 

Edited by MarrikBroom
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This isn’t exactly the same thing, but speaking of noob traps, I think in general there needs to be clearer communication to the player about what has to be baught with platinum, and what can be aquired just by playing. My friend blew almost all of her starter platinum (and what she got from the renown pack) because she got a 75% market discount and wanted a different warframe than Excalibur. Back then we had no idea how to actually get new warframes and weapons, and it looked like buying with platinum was the only way.

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Market has a lot of traps, i just use to buy deluxe stuffs.

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30 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

The entire "predatory" feel is the reason we're trying to have discussions to see how they can best be re-worked to become more helpful. The point of reviewing this and looking at feedback is so that the packs don't have the same feel in the future as they did in the past. 

Nothing has been set in stone as of this point. 

An one-time 'starter' mod pack purchase that gives you all the 'framework' rares (the Rifle/Pistol/Shotgun multishots, Intensify/Streamline/Continuity), the base damage mods for every weapon, and Vitality/Redirection/Steel Fiber, plus a bunch of endo (say, 10k) and credits (say, 100k), for like, 20p would work pretty well IMHO.

That means you have an incentive as a new player to buy this to get a significant head-start on making progress through the solar map, it'd be worth the money ($2 or so if you buy without a discount) , and it'd serve the purpose that low-cost microtransactions generally serve in terms of f2p economics-converting a nonpaying player into a paying player because after you pay the first time you're more willing to pay a second and third and fourth time and so on.

I don't know what your internal statistics are but I'd take a guess that you generally see a two-tiered income, where one tier is people buying the really cheap stuff and the second is people buying into Prime Access packs or purchasing huge amounts of plat when there's a discount. In this case the problem with mod packs isn't just that they're not worth it, it's that they don't fall neatly into the "impulse buy" or "tons of really cool stuff for premium price" categories.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

This isn’t exactly the same thing, but speaking of noob traps, I think in general there needs to be clearer communication to the player about what has to be baught with platinum, and what can be aquired just by playing. My friend blew almost all of her starter platinum (and what she got from the renown pack) because she got a 75% market discount and wanted a different warframe than Excalibur. Back then we had no idea how to actually get new warframes and weapons, and it looked like buying with platinum was the only way.

Further illustrates to the lack of a good tutorial and communication early on in this game. Let the new players fumble around and make a purchase to plat or random mod packs, because they don't know they don't have to. 

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43 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

The entire "predatory" feel is the reason we're trying to have discussions to see how they can best be re-worked to become more helpful. The point of reviewing this and looking at feedback is so that the packs don't have the same feel in the future as they did in the past. 

Nothing has been set in stone as of this point. 

Darling removing them is everything you need to do. We have several starting packs with much more items worth more than anything those packs would drop for a far better price. 

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Anyone above mr 3, as well as anyone who does a bit of research before they ''dive'' into warframe knows that the mod packs (along with the plat -> credits and a number of other questionable ''offers'') are little more than noob bait, and not even the kind that provides any type of gratification or return on investment)

fact of the matter is, what most people would consider the ''basest necessities'' mods (serration, flow, split chamber and the likes) are either sold on the marketplace at derisory prices or straight-up gifted to new players by kindly veterans. for 90 platinum, you can get a hold of pretty much any mod in the game (except rivens and primed chambers), as opposed to depending on a roll of the dice. As a matter of fact, i believe it's pretty much impossible (or at least very unlikely) that you'll make any kind of return on investment from any of these packs, rendering them even more pointless whilst potentially harming a new player's experience. 

Warframe is often hailed as having one of the best and fairest free-to-play monetization systems one could find in any modern game.The mod packs (along with a number of other products) only serve to harm that shining reputation, as a greenhorn on their receiving end is quite likely to feel ''scammed'', giving up on the game altogether while denouncing warframe's supposedly near-flawless model.

Besides, do we really need mod packs ? I know that warframe is a free-to-play game, but is this really a reliable enough plat sink that it's worth keeping around despite the potential negative word of mouth ? between deluxes, primes, primed mods, rare mods, the upheaval of ikeaframe, the evergrowing list of tennogen cosmetics and especially riven mods (i mean DAMN, have you seen those prices ?), are mod packs really the thing holding digital extremes together ?

New players are already confused enough as is upon entering their orbiter for the first time, their market junction in hand. Hell, the new player experience is so bloody discombobulated, it's been joked about by the devs themselves as they braced for their switch release. 

Get the new players to like the game, become invested in it (emotionally that is) before you try and scrounge any kind of plat out of them. i speak only for myself, but i'm pretty sure that it's a somewhat widespread mindset to ''invest'' (financially this time) in warframe once the game comes together.

Mod packs hurt the game's reputation, sully the marketplace with their presence, and harm the ''make or break'' new player experience. in my opinion, they should just sod off and be forgotten, as the ''4 revives a day'' was. We've come a long way since 2013 (not that i was there then, but hey) and randomized noob-traps have no place in the game warframe has become.

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Posted (edited)

Gambling: Betting on a chance with money you have for money or items you don't

RNG: Gambling

Mod packs: Gambling 

Gambling be it with real currency or in game currency. It is all derived somewhere. Any form or fashion takes hold to provide more of a chance of the seller receiving the money than the customer receiving the chance.

Edited by (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK

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1 hour ago, [DE]Marcus said:

The entire "predatory" feel is the reason we're trying to have discussions to see how they can best be re-worked to become more helpful. The point of reviewing this and looking at feedback is so that the packs don't have the same feel in the future as they did in the past. 

Nothing has been set in stone as of this point. 

Honestly you don't need mod packs to monetise mods, trade chat is already doing that for you and both the buyers and sellers are benefiting from it. Just remove mod packs already, it's an obsolete feature and I have no doubt that you'll accomplish nothing from reworking them other than sparking a debate amongst the community.

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