Its past time we got a dedicated augment slot

[Cerebrum123]

On 2019-01-09 at 3:19 PM, peterc3 said:

DE said no and it would be an even harder no with a universal polarity on it.

They also said no open world areas, but now we have Cetus and Fortuna.

[Gurpgork]

6 minutes ago, Cerebrum123 said:

They also said no open world areas, but now we have Cetus and Fortuna.

I don’t think that they ever explicitly said no to that. Until they surprised everyone with PoE at Tennocon, it was something that they’d just never really talked about or considered. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

But... Abilities when they were mods were "Optional" just as Augments are now.

I think it might be time to let that go, my friend. They were optional, now they're innate, and the comments from the team at the time were that they consider the abilities as essential, not the mods that affect them. The same with Augments, they weren't ever supposed to be band-aids or essential parts of the build, and even in the improved state we want to leave them in, they should still be optional.

And losing two slots, while it is the logical choice for allowing us this space for slotting Augments multiple ways to find new builds, is at the detriment to everything we do without Augments.

2 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

It doesn't seem as though the policy is to have "functional Augments"

Oh, no, I didn't mean that DE's current policy was to have functional Augments. DE's goal appears to be to just have everything with an augment, whether right or wrong doesn't seem to be the discussion for them. Getting functional Augments for every ability before we start on to the multiples of Augments per ability just seems more fair though.

2 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

That seems like a "more work" version of Perpetual Vortex. So while not technically powercreep, it wouldn't be a functional Augment; which you listed as the main Policy for Augments.

Eh, I only came up with it on the fly, needs a bit of work. But the general gist of it is there. The idea would be to rework Well of Life anyway, so that it becomes a functional cast that isn't just base eclipsed by Blessing from the moment you unlock it, and that way whatever new effect Well of Life has to contribute to her kit, you then sustain her buffs, or maybe even gain one that is only possible through the combination (like Oberon's Iron Renewal) for your team by doing so.

[Cerebrum123]

5 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

I don’t think that they ever explicitly said no to that. Until they surprised everyone with PoE at Tennocon, it was something that they’d just never really talked about or considered. 

It was a long time ago, but they did explicitly say so. They said Warframe's engine could never handle it, so we wouldn't ever get it. 

[Gurpgork]

2 hours ago, Cerebrum123 said:

It was a long time ago, but they did explicitly say so. They said Warframe's engine could never handle it, so we wouldn't ever get it. 

That's a pretty different situation. Saying no to something because of an engine limitation is different than saying no to removing a drawback to something that is supposed to have that drawback. 

[Cerebrum123]

17 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

That's a pretty different situation. Saying no to something because of an engine limitation is different than saying no to removing a drawback to something that is supposed to have that drawback. 

They also said no to vacuum on pets, no removing zoren coptering, and a lot of other things. Originally they weren't going to remove the fact that kubrows and kavats die without the genetic stabilizers, and because they intended them to have that drawback. They said no to a mod slot for stuff that is purely utility, and now we have exilus adapters. They also said no to increased stats on primed warframes, because they were merely meant to be status symbols. There are plenty of examples of systems they said they weren't going to change things that limited us, but did so anyway due to player feedback. 

[Genesix6]

Personally I don't think putting a augment slot mod would worth it...........

How about making a skill tree, you can upgrade the skill to that certain skill with the augment it self. How about that ^-^

[VenomousValentine]

On 2019-01-09 at 12:13 PM, Xardis said:

The title. Make an item that would unlock a new modslot for a frame that could have only augments, it should also have a "superpolarity" that would reduce the cost of equipping the mod to 1/4th rounded upwards.

I agree. I also feel like we need an exilus slot of sorts for weapons. A slot for mods that silence weapons and give mag or max ammo capacity and ammo mutation.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I have to disagree.  Augments are meant to be extras.  Either something that merely enhances the experience (peace maker, hysterical assault) or something that changes the ability in a dramatic way.  They specifically try to avoid direct upgrades.  And an augment slot would be just that.  You're supposed to be making a choice with augments.  Sacrificing an otherwise would be all rounder kit to a specified style.  I don't think the way we mod things should change drastically as it is a pretty happy medium currently.

4 hours ago, Genesix6 said:

Personally I don't think putting a augment slot mod would worth it...........

How about making a skill tree, you can upgrade the skill to that certain skill with the augment it self. How about that ^-^

However.  If we WERE going to change things rather drastically I would much prefer this ^

I'd LOVE skill trees.  Seeing the new focus trees when they were added was amazing to me.  I want that for our frames.

[Gurpgork]

5 hours ago, Genesix6 said:

How about making a skill tree, you can upgrade the skill to that certain skill with the augment it self. How about that ^-^

Something like this might be a really good and interesting solution, but it comes at the cost of having to make multiple versions of every single ability in the game. Not only would that largely slow down the development time of new Warframes, but it would also be an absolutely massive undertaking to add retroactively to every Warframe currently in the game. 

[Stonehenge]

Le 09/01/2019 à 21:19, peterc3 a dit :

DE said no and it would be an even harder no with a universal polarity on it.

They said no indeed, but i would like to understand why such a hard no ? I fail to see a solid reason, given the huge amount of mods we have now, wich has nothing to do with what we had 4 years ago.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Stonehenge

[Stonehenge]

Le 09/01/2019 à 22:22, peterc3 a dit :

Nobody playing this game needs access to more mods.

Hey dude, i d really love to cast spores on my mates to give them 100% toxin. It wouldn't be mandatory, wouldn't be a game changer, just a usefull extension, and sadly i dont think it s worth an actual slot on my build.

[Gurpgork]

12 hours ago, Stonehenge said:

They said no indeed, but i would like to understand why such a hard no ? I fail to see a solid reason, given the huge amount of mods we have now, wich has nothing to do with what we had 4 years ago.

Because almost all of the good augments make you stronger than more power stats would, because the whole point of having a limited number of slots is that you're not supposed to have every mod that you could want and need in a build, and because player power is already massively out of control in this game. 

[Buddhakingpen]

just came here to give the good ol "haha" react. 

[VenomousValentine]

5 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I disagree. Over 70% of Augments are QoL changes, and minor features that the ability should've been released with in the first place..

This

[Birdframe_Prime]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I disagree. Over 70% of Augments are QoL changes, and minor features that the ability should've been released with in the first place..

And I have to disagree with that. I would say that every single Augment barring only one or two, are direct buffs. Whether that's in the form of a band-aid fix to it, or simply removing limitations that were placed on the original ability, they are all buffs.

The ones that aren't are things like Zephyr's Funnel Clouds, which legitimately trades out the base CC for more damage and extra sources of damage. There are a couple of others, but very few that actually change up what the ability does.

There are some Augments that are legitimately terrible, because the buffs they add on are unnecessary or counter-logical (Target Fixation), but they all add a function on top of what the ability already does. More damage, more Status, more effects or more control of the base ability.

And none of them, by virtue of being an actual Augment, are Quality of Life changes. Those are band-aids created instead of fixing the ability.

[(NSW)Aila]

there are a ton of syndicate mods that come with their own costs already built in - they improve something and make something else worse to balance it out.
 

Why are these rated the same as straight upgrades (1 mod slot, 9 polarity)?

 

For that matter, how is Infiltrate as valuable as Concentrated Arrow? How is Concentrated Arrow as valuable as Irradiating Disarm?

 

It's pretty difficult to balance augments against each other because that's the nature of the beast - they're qualitative changes not quantitative ones. That means that at the moment the augment system is a static one; there's no choice involved, and no comparison is sensible. Each augment is its own specific thing that has its own considerations. Infiltrate is almost never worth the mod slot, Irradiating Disarm almost always is, and the only thing that changes that is the specific content you're doing, and even then rarely by much.

I don't think a new mod slot is necessarily the thing to do, because that's too far in the other direction - because then it would become a choice between augments, with no consideration of whether your frame needs an augment, because leaving the slot empty would never be better. This adds ANOTHER barrier between newbies starting and finally having a proficient kit (since syndicate rank and rep locks off these augments), and it also kinda clutters up the mod screen.

 

But I don't think the current situation works as a balance point, because actual development time went into Infiltrate just as much as it did into Irradiating Disarm and they cost the same and we're gonna keep seeing more augments that will never ever get used and waste everybody's time and syndicate rep and act as trap options for newbies who continue to not realise that Calm and Frenzy is much less usable than it sounds.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Oetpay

[-GAx-]

8 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

And I have to disagree with that. I would say that every single Augment barring only one or two, are direct buffs. Whether that's in the form of a band-aid fix to it, or simply removing limitations that were placed on the original ability, they are all buffs.

The ones that aren't are things like Zephyr's Funnel Clouds, which legitimately trades out the base CC for more damage and extra sources of damage. There are a couple of others, but very few that actually change up what the ability does.

There are some Augments that are legitimately terrible, because the buffs they add on are unnecessary or counter-logical (Target Fixation), but they all add a function on top of what the ability already does. More damage, more Status, more effects or more control of the base ability.

And none of them, by virtue of being an actual Augment, are Quality of Life changes. Those are band-aids created instead of fixing the ability.

All the more why we shouldn't slap an Augment slot, encourage even more power creeping and making the game even easier than it is. 

I would much prefer having to sacrifice something in order to bandaid these abilities, rather than stacking power on top of power. 

Save having to go through vets saying "hurr durr game too ez"

Edited January 23, 2019 by -GAx-

[Shikkoku]

11 hours ago, Oetpay said:

there are a ton of syndicate mods that come with their own costs already built in - they improve something and make something else worse to balance it out.
 

Why are these rated the same as straight upgrades (1 mod slot, 9 polarity)?

 

For that matter, how is Infiltrate as valuable as Concentrated Arrow? How is Concentrated Arrow as valuable as Irradiating Disarm?

 

It's pretty difficult to balance augments against each other because that's the nature of the beast - they're qualitative changes not quantitative ones. That means that at the moment the augment system is a static one; there's no choice involved, and no comparison is sensible. Each augment is its own specific thing that has its own considerations. Infiltrate is almost never worth the mod slot, Irradiating Disarm almost always is, and the only thing that changes that is the specific content you're doing, and even then rarely by much.

I don't think a new mod slot is necessarily the thing to do, because that's too far in the other direction - because then it would become a choice between augments, with no consideration of whether your frame needs an augment, because leaving the slot empty would never be better. This adds ANOTHER barrier between newbies starting and finally having a proficient kit (since syndicate rank and rep locks off these augments), and it also kinda clutters up the mod screen.

 

But I don't think the current situation works as a balance point, because actual development time went into Infiltrate just as much as it did into Irradiating Disarm and they cost the same and we're gonna keep seeing more augments that will never ever get used and waste everybody's time and syndicate rep and act as trap options for newbies who continue to not realise that Calm and Frenzy is much less usable than it sounds.

Infiltrate is one of the best augments in my opinion... as I hate doing spy missions (because they are take a lot of time, and I don't have much time to play. I like the spy mission's design and conception, though), one method to increase the speed of the mission would be playing with a squad... which is in the 50% of the times is failure because some random troll/noob... but Infiltrate makes spy missions fast as hell. 



 

[Birdframe_Prime]

17 hours ago, -GAx- said:

All the more why we shouldn't slap an Augment slot, encourage even more power creeping and making the game even easier than it is. 

I would much prefer having to sacrifice something in order to bandaid these abilities, rather than stacking power on top of power. 

Save having to go through vets saying "hurr durr game too ez"

Heh, I'm one of the ones arguing against an Augment slot too ^^ Read back on the thread if you want any proof of that.

But I'm also about making the abilities stand on their own, first, and then adapting the Augments to be quality changers, rather than straight buffs. An Augment should encourage you to build or play the frame differently than you normally would.

Also, I'm unfortunately a vet, and I do think the game is a little too easy... Mostly because when I started the game, I was taken on by a clan that farmed the old Key system for Prime Parts, the one time when there was actually a real reward for staying in Survivals for three hours, and had players that regularly topped the weekly Leaderboards for either Kills or Times or Waves on the endless stuff. Once you've been to that kind of level on the regular, you do kind of view everything else differently. And I'm not even one of the ones that they considered good at the game, I'm just what's left after all these years ^^