Garuda is too slow!

[CuteFoxyFox]

Since some time I saw lack of Garuda's fixes etc. since Baruuk came out.

Please do not leave her be. Her main problem in my opinion is her speed.

 

So she is supposed to be a DPS - Assasin. But before you can kill anyone with aany of your abilities... everyone is dead.

Her "stab" on first ability doesnt deal damage, to kill enemies you need then to be below 40%, What is a good way to do this?

4th ability. Oke so im charging it... oh no Mesa murdered all of the enemies... oh now Saryn, Volt, Ember, Excalibur, Ash...

 

The list can go but Garuda is too slow. You can use Dread heart... but first you need to stack it spamming 1 button on 1 enemy

just knocking him down all the time. Than when you have enough dmg you use it... you clear one wave of enemies... OKAY BACK TO STACKING BABY!

 

- Please just make her 1 a normal finisher

- Instead of dealing 1m or 2m dmg make dread heart stack status on enemies not just flat damage. Flat damage isnt good if you dont have a lot. And stacking it on Garuda takes ages and isnt even fun.

- So we leave her passive useless still okay. Can we at least make it so the dmg buff stays not dissapears when she heals?

- Maybe reverse Ultimate. By that i mean: To deal more damage you need to hold it, than it gets smaller but has more dmg. And is big from the start.

 

Please just speed her up someway.

Please T_T

[IceColdHawk]

This is why i can't consider Garuda seriously for anything that isn't an endurance run requiring high amounts of scaled damage.

[xzilania]

I find that not to be true. I kill tons of enemies just fine on a Garuda, in fact I have tons of fun with her as she is.

You just have to be able to stringe and combo faster and actually use her talons, take off your melee weapon and just cut things up.

[Mama_Sasha]

With practice, im sure that Garuda can get pretty speedy. You just have to calculate each move on the fly, when to use them, what to use etc etc.

So far since release, i had no problems with her. If they made her faster, she start to feel very cheap, like how they did on Khora's 4th and Excal Umbra's Radial Howl.

There is ofcorse Natural Talent Mod that could speed things up.

[Shelusine]

13 hours ago, xzilania said:

I find that not to be true. I kill tons of enemies just fine on a Garuda, in fact I have tons of fun with her as she is.

You just have to be able to stringe and combo faster and actually use her talons, take off your melee weapon and just cut things up.

Heard of slide attacks ? Because using her talons to kill things sounds like a VERY slow process. I am not sure what "fast" actually means to you but from the sound of it it your speed standard is quite low hence why you feel like she is fast.

[(PSN)FunkyTown_76]

Garuda is not slow at all (outside of a couple casting animations) with some knowledge and practice. For instance in any low level stuff u can just spam her 4th fast, without charging it, in a power based build. If you put Maiming Strike + Four Riders ( this stance doubles slide damage) on her talons you can play ur meta slide spam all day at insane levels . I understand confusion when it comes to Garuda cause she is in no way a typical style frame, and she's also in no way bad or weak. She's crazy strong at any level of play with a little creativity and effort. I would agree she could use  lil QoL to remove the need for natural talent though, and maybe have her shield a lil larger and wrap a little like a convex dome. Outside that she's really really good, and has high versatility in the viable builds that can be applied to her. Trying to get her buffed in typical fashion would just break her into needing to be nerfed. Couple very small QoL tweaks and she'd be perfect.

 

In response to the OP:

- her 1 is a normal finisher after the skill, it's a ground finisher, look down and hit melee.

- The higher the enemy level = the more intital damage the mirror obtains which scales faster as charged based on your power strength. you can get into the millions pretty fast with it, then drop the bomb after you use her 4th and u get massive bleeds procs, the status you're asking for. 

She just takes practice and effort to be exactly what you're looking for without changing anything other than what's been mentioned. 

GLHF, Garuda is tons of fun once you get a good feel for her.

Edited January 20, 2019 by (PS4)FunkyTown_76

[FLSH_BNG]

I'm afraid the 'problems' you're having with Garuda aren't being shared with me.

I haven't had any issue with her ability to deal and dish-out damage, it comes down to what mods I have installed and whether or not I'm paying enough attention around me.

[Shelusine]

14 hours ago, (PS4)FunkyTown_76 said:

If you put Maiming Strike + Four Riders ( this stance doubles slide damage) on her talons you can play ur meta slide spam all day at insane levels .

Why would you do that ? Is there anything a weapon with far higher range and multipliers can't one shot at max combo before you yourself get one shot ? Why would it make Garuda strong or fast compared to other frames with better abilities to make use of it ?

[(XBOX)Artakka]

Not sure why some feel she is slow. Garuda has been my go-to for PoE and Fortuna since she was released. She's certainly not slow, shes very adept at wiping the map (her 4 and 1), she can take alot of hits (her 1) and shes very, VERY self sustainable (her 2 and 3). Overall, shes a great frame I very much enjoy not only for her kit but also for her fashion frame potential. Cant please everybody ig.

[(PSN)FunkyTown_76]

On 2019-01-21 at 11:11 PM, Shelusine said:

Why would you do that ? Is there anything a weapon with far higher range and multipliers can't one shot at max combo before you yourself get one shot ? Why would it make Garuda strong or fast compared to other frames with better abilities to make use of it ?

 

On 2019-01-20 at 7:10 PM, Shelusine said:

Heard of slide attacks ? Because using her talons to kill things sounds like a VERY slow process. I am not sure what "fast" actually means to you but from the sound of it it your speed standard is quite low hence why you feel like she is fast.

I suggested that because of your posts. I'm not sure if you realize or not but Garuda's Talons + Four Riders slide damage is only beat out by a few weapons in the game, a couple sets of tonfa's and Valkyr's exalted claws. If you toss in a maiming strike you have a 100% chance to crit on slide, this can be buffed via her passive, arcanes, other frame synergies, kavats.... etc. Not sure why you're trying to act like they're useless. Not a playstyle I enjoy myself, but it does work quite well. Her Talon's are very good melee weapons, too bad they're unusable in any weapon specific sortie, melee included. 

As far as being one shot goes that alll comes down to build and playstyle, there's always trade offs. If you build with the focus power sure she's gonna be a lot more squishy and get one shot out of nowhere. If you build a little more tanky I think you'll find the one shot issue disapppear.

She's extremely good at what she does, wether or not that playstyle appeals to different players is the issue. You can't try to force a blanket mentality across all frames or the game will become very stale. Garuda's a pretty unique frame in the massive arsenal of weapons and frames we have. Don't try to force her into a role she wasn't designed for, that only leads to things like this recent Nyx rework that pretty much destroyed her potential.

If Garuda doesn't appeal to you why are you playing her? I'm pretty sure the majority of the playerbase doesn't play frames they don't like.

Edited January 27, 2019 by (PS4)FunkyTown_76

[Shelusine]

4 hours ago, (PS4)FunkyTown_76 said:

 

I suggested that because of your posts. I'm not sure if you realize or not but Garuda's Talons + Four Riders slide damage is only beat out by a few weapons in the game, a couple sets of tonfa's and Valkyr's exalted claws. If you toss in a maiming strike you have a 100% chance to crit on slide, this can be buffed via her passive, arcanes, other frame synergies, kavats.... etc. Not sure why you're trying to act like they're useless. Not a playstyle I enjoy myself, but it does work quite well. Her Talon's are very good melee weapons, too bad they're unusable in any weapon specific sortie, melee included. 

As far as being one shot goes that alll comes down to build and playstyle, there's always trade offs. If you build with the focus power sure she's gonna be a lot more squishy and get one shot out of nowhere. If you build a little more tanky I think you'll find the one shot issue disapppear.

She's extremely good at what she does, wether or not that playstyle appeals to different players is the issue. You can't try to force a blanket mentality across all frames or the game will become very stale. Garuda's a pretty unique frame in the massive arsenal of weapons and frames we have. Don't try to force her into a role she wasn't designed for, that only leads to things like this recent Nyx rework that pretty much destroyed her potential.

If Garuda doesn't appeal to you why are you playing her? I'm pretty sure the majority of the playerbase doesn't play frames they don't like.

I understand the context of your suggestion, I just don't understand the reasoning. "I am not sure if you realize" but the damage of a slide or even the raw damage of a melee weapon has close to no value if it doesn't have range hence my questions. Slide attacks have values if there's range, raw damage doesn't really matter unless you plan to melee level500+ enemies which I am not really sure why you would. That include every polearm, staff and whip in the game, that's a lot.... (plus her talon does not have access to rivens, meaning even less range and damage potential) That being said, props for meleeing at close range with her passive, even I wouldn't dare to do so despite being a QT user.

As for build and playstyle, no you literally get one shot past what can't be one shot by your long range spin to win setup thanks to how combo counters work. You deal millions of damage per slides. No amount of damage reduction will do you any good at the level where they start to not die in one slide.

Well, you know, Nezha was extremely good at what he used to do (running in the planes), that doesn't mean that something wasn't wrong with the frame and that these things didn't need fixing. And the problem with your reasoning is that it's the exact reason Nezha himself was left in such a poor stat for so long, it's good to make a unique frame, it's better if that frame does something that applies to the game. Also, none of my posts implies that I dislike Garuda or that she is bad, they all implies that aspects of her gameplay aren't sufficient contextually and need fixing. Is a healing pool useful when you have such mechanic on your passive and access do magus elevate ? No. Is energy recovery useful if the frame isn't energy hungry ? No. Is the 4+1 combo efficient if their geometrical properties are different ? No. And denying it due to a lack of knowledge on your side is the problematic matter. 

edit: Also just to be clear, I don't think Garuda is too slow, or more accurately, I don't think being slow is a bad thing. She's just clearly far below average speed wise compared to most frames.

 

Edited January 27, 2019 by Shelusine

[--C--KingShai]

Can we get faster cast time for garudas 4 please

[(PSN)FunkyTown_76]

1 hour ago, Shelusine said:

 Also, none of my posts implies that I dislike Garuda or that she is bad, they all implies that aspects of her gameplay aren't sufficient contextually and need fixing. Is a healing pool useful when you have such mechanic on your passive and access do magus elevate ? No. Is energy recovery useful if the frame isn't energy hungry ? No. Is the 4+1 combo efficient if their geometrical properties are different ? No. And denying it due to a lack of knowledge on your side is the problematic matter. 

 

I'm sorry but everything you say proves one of two things. 

A) you don't like Garuda's playstyles

B) you don't seem to have a good grasp of how to play her effectively

How can you claim that health and energy regen on her are useless when the strongest part about her comes from spamming a health sacraficing skill along with her others that drain her energy like crazy because you're casting so frequently? Just because arcanes? I use em too and still need the effects of her skills to maintain the spam involved around manipulating her passive buff. It may not be a playstyle you enjoy, but I and many others sure seem to.

And btw idc about slide spam, I don't play that way. That's not to say i don't ever use a slide attack or see the value in why some people play that way. 

You don't like her melee, you don't like her skill synergies, you keep trying to force an expectation on her that has absolutely zero to do with how she plays in reality. I just don't get your arguments about any of this. Have you ever heard of blood mages, blood necromancers, or meleemancers?  I'm pretty sure they had some of those concepts in mind when designing her. She has a ton of similarities to a few of those archetypes I've played in older games, and she's just as fun and powerful as some of those things were in those games. Maybe once they add some augments for her 2 and 3 specifically you'll grasp her a little better. 

I'm really not sure what it is you think Garuda should be or play like, just seems like you're disagreeing with people around the forums for the sake of disagreeing.

Edited January 27, 2019 by (PS4)FunkyTown_76

[Shelusine]

53 minutes ago, (PS4)FunkyTown_76 said:

I'm sorry but everything you say proves one of two things. 

A) you don't like Garuda's playstyles

B) you don't seem to have a good grasp of how to play her effectively

How can you claim that health and energy regen on her are useless when the strongest part about her comes from spamming a health sacraficing skill along with her others that drain her energy like crazy because you're casting so frequently? Just because arcanes? I use em too and still need the effects of her skills to maintain the spam involved around manipulating her passive buff. It may not be a playstyle you enjoy, but I and many others sure seem to.

And btw idc about slide spam, I don't play that way. That's not to say i don't ever use a slide attack or see the value in why some people play that way. 

You don't like her melee, you don't like her skill synergies, you keep trying to force an expectation on her that has absolutely zero to do with how she plays in reality. I just don't get your arguments about any of this. Have you ever heard of blood mages, blood necromancers, or meleemancers?  I'm pretty sure they had some of those concepts in mind when designing her. She has a ton of similarities to a few of those archetypes I've played in older games, and she's just as fun and powerful as some of those things were in those games. Maybe once they add some augments for her 2 and 3 specifically you'll grasp her a little better. 

I'm really not sure what it is you think Garuda should be or play like, just seems like you're disagreeing with people around the forums for the sake of disagreeing.

I use em too and still need the effects of her skills to maintain the spam involved around manipulating her passive buff.

No, you don't. Everything you just said proved that point.

A pool of healing by design gets in the way of you manipulating her passive as you don't have control over the amount of life restored and have to do and undo the restoration, that's the complete opposite of effective. Compare that to instant 200-400HP regeneration and there's just no comparison, anyone with those Magus would know that I am not sure why you'd be lying and if you are not lying what the hell are you doing with your frame. In addition, healing alone without any extra gimmick is just plain useless considering how many options there is to recover your health in this game.

Anyone with maxed arcane energized also know that as long as you are effectively using your abilities you never run out of energy to spam your ability. You using them and still requiring more energy equate to you not killing your enemies while doing so.... That's also the complete opposite of effective.Even worse, you thinking that her 4th ability should be spammed indicate that you clearly do not know when to make use of the rest of your loadout. Now to be clear, in regard to her energy regeneration I am not saying that the skill in itself is useless, I am saying that it doesn't have much use because the rest of her kit isn't that of a spammer, she is not mag. If she was a mag with energy regen instead of her first ability, yes, usefulness acquired but we are far from that. 

And btw idc about slide spam, I don't play that way. That's not to say i don't ever use a slide attack or see the value in why some people play that way. 

Is that your way of saying "hey actually using her claws as a slide attack is not worth it and a waste of time compared to the other options. I am sorry you are right"? 

You don't like her melee, you don't like her skill synergies, you keep trying to force an expectation on her that has absolutely zero to do with how she plays in reality.

You sound like an anxiety ball to whom you'd say "hey, I like your dress but I don't think the colors of the bottom parts matches" and who would then proceed to say that "Anyway you dislike everything that I do!". Being critic has nothing to do with not liking and discussing the critic is an important part of improving things. Isn't that what forums are for?

Also, it's not that I don't like her melee, claws are fun but not worth it compared to the rest. It's not that I don't like her synergies, they are just not effective enough compared to other frames. See the difference? Also you proved yourself to actually not know how to play her or at least apparently not more than me so I'll ignore the rest.

I just don't get your arguments about any of this. Have you ever heard of blood mages, blood necromancers, or meleemancers?

That's... Very unrelated. My argument was that her claws weren't making Garuda faster and that other frames can use what would make her faster better than she does. You made the rest progress on your own, including your assumptions about me disliking the frame. Also yes and I like the caster theme. That's why I love the stagger on QT and the fact that most of her kit is built around that, very immersive when playing her. 

I'm really not sure what it is you think Garuda should be or play like, just seems like you're disagreeing with people around the forums for the sake of disagreeing.

Like she does but better ? I don't think I suggested to scrap her abilities nor to change her gameplay, (granted that it's a warframe, there isn't just one way of playing them) I am just saying that they don't do what they are supposed to do in a way that brings the necessary performance to be an average warframe for reasons already mentioned. Do you think Garuda would be a different frame if while combining her 4 and her 1 both of their area of effect would be shaped as spheres or cylinders or do you think that it would just make her behave better ?

As for the disagreeing part, I find it very hypocritical of you... My replies in this threads were originally questions, they weren't disagreement per say, you turned them into such on your own and when you found out I was right added things to disagree upon like her gameplay and such despite me not even talking about that to begin with. Saying that I disagree for the sake of disagreeing because you create disagreements on your own is a very pejorative way to interpret the situation.