DE Rivens are bad business! (Gambling and Rng on Rng on Grind)

[Doughalo2]

If a lock stat feature is not implemented into Riven mods De are knowingly corrupt and encourage gambling.

Why are De praised for removing the plat Kubrow appearance gamble when this is 1000x worse and applies not only to obtaining rivens but also rolling them. Look at this video for how long it takes to roll ideal stats...

https://youtu.be/NqFSSk0JqFg

[Doughalo2]

Yes his first roll was good but not ideal or godroll and even that was cery lucky and unlikely there are more examples.

[Naftal]

While I somewhat agree, what RNG does the grind have? Kuva is guaranteed.

[Makunogo]

oh an other riven thread. ill get a decent post count on this.

because the kubrow was a PLAT ONLY thing, essentially a direct pay to eventually win. 

rivens however. requires no plat. the only thing they require is you play the game

Edited January 10, 2019 by Makunogo

[Naftal]

2 minutes ago, Makunogo said:

oh an other riven thread. ill get a decent post count on this.

because the kubrow was a PLAT ONLY thing, essentially a direct pay to eventually win. rivens however. requires no plat.

How was kubrow plat only thing?

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, Makunogo said:

requires no plat

Unless you count what its done to the player-based market...hoo boy. I can't go one day without seeing somebody selling or buying a Riven for at least 500-1000 plat, which in turn inflates other items because people will be selling items at a higher price to GET the plat to buy God-rivens.

[HellVOps]

"how long it takes to roll ideal stats." hahahahahahaha, If you really plan to go that way with your ideal stats prepre to grind alot of kuva, rng is not merciful.

Edited January 10, 2019 by HellVOps

[Makunogo]

3 minutes ago, Naftal said:

How was kubrow plat only thing?

the thing the poster is talking about was teh ability to change the appearance of the kubrow using plat. the reason DE took it away was because people were overspending on it to get their desired look and that is not how DE wanted to make their sales.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Makunogo

[Naftal]

1 minute ago, Makunogo said:

the thing the poster is talking about was teh ability to change the appearance of the kubrow using plat. the reason DE took it away was because people were overspending on it to get their desired look and that is not how DE wanted to make their sales.

So could you not just farm another egg and incubate it for another roll for appearance without using plat?

[Makunogo]

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Unless you count what its done to the player-based market...hoo boy. I can't go one day without seeing somebody selling or buying a Riven for at least 500-1000 plat, which in turn inflates other items because people will be selling items at a higher price to GET the plat to buy God-rivens.

i honestly dont care if things get inflated. other then rivens there is nothing actually rare in the game.

[Makunogo]

6 minutes ago, Naftal said:

So could you not just farm another egg and incubate it for another roll for appearance without using plat?

they were unique appearances. i wasn't around but i believe the whole breeding/dna thing was not around at the time. 

but yes you could. however the appearance is random and you can only make a kubrow once every 24 hours without rushing it. you may never get the appearance you ideally want. (lotus imprints are expensive for this exact reason they look nice but are uncommon)

the appearances were randomly generated and were only buyable with plat. and people were spending insane amounts to get thier perfect look. which is not what DE wanted with it.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Makunogo

[Rawbeard]

don't do Rivens, problem solved. after all the plat people have sunk into them there is no chance for major revisions to the system. DE didn't want to change the mod system because of the credits people spent! rivens are a cancer with nobody interested of curing it

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, Makunogo said:

i honestly dont care if things get inflated. other then rivens there is nothing actually rare in the game.

...uh I think DE will care if plat gets so hyper-inflated that it becomes borderline worthless, I mean right now 50 USD gets you 1000 plat, and some people are willing to buy/sell rivens for that much, so if it goes higher than that then any ingame accrual will likely increase because there are those not willing to spend $50 on a SINGLE MOD.

[Makunogo]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

...uh I think DE will care if plat gets so hyper-inflated that it becomes borderline worthless, I mean right now 50 USD gets you 1000 plat, and some people are willing to buy/sell rivens for that much, so if it goes higher than that then any ingame accrual will likely increase because there are those not willing to spend $50 on a SINGLE MOD.

do you buy rivens with  Cash? 

the amount one spends to buy platinum does not dictate what a riven sells for. and therefore is not equivalent to the cost of purchasing said plat. 

however one can still purchase plat and use that to buy whatever they want and still buy a riven.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Makunogo

[Aldain]

Just now, Makunogo said:

do you buy rivens with  Cash? 

Do you Farm up 1000 plat by selling prime parts? Because between those two options one is faster and actually feasible.

I don't use rivens, but what they've done to the market is something I'd be wary of when it comes to the valuation of Platinum. 

[Makunogo]

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Do you Farm up 1000 plat by selling prime parts? Because between those two options one is faster and actually feasible.

I don't use rivens, but what they've done to the market is something I'd be wary of when it comes to the valuation of Platinum. 

people have farmed well over 20k plat in my clan SELLING FISH/GEMS. so... buying plat directly is obviously faster then earning it. thats a mute point.

rivens have done nothing to the market. prices of everything remain around the same with the introduction of rivens. the only things that have high prices are the rivens themselves. and thats because rivens are rare. and since they are rare they are not going to be cheap.

if anything rivens have given more people more options on what to buy since a lucky player who is broke can then afford to buy stuff they want. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Makunogo

[LordPantaloonsthe3rd]

There is no real money involved in the act of rolling the riven itself, you cant buy kuva with plat so its not gambling. Plus with how immensely powerful rivens for some weapons can be adding a the ability to lock stats would result in retardedly powerful rivens.

[KennBone]

Rivens should work like " refine/upgrade " items in others mmorpg.. mean u pay " kuva in this case" to " refine riven " more % refine better stats and so with % of fail then back step and so..

[Makunogo]

Just now, LordPantaloonsthe3rd said:

There is no real money involved in the act of rolling the riven itself, you cant buy kuva with plat so its not gambling. Plus with how immensely powerful rivens for some weapons can be adding a the ability to lock stats would result in retardedly powerful rivens.

basically this. and DE has already stated themselves stat locking will not be a thing 

[Voltage]

Rivens aren't gambling with money, it's just rolling the dice with resources and time. DE added a system that has insane RNG, but they don't condone gambling as Kuva and time is what you invest, not money. Locking stats is an awful idea and would completely trivialize the system.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

I've said it before, there is nothing wrong with rivens. They are a fun mechanic to enhance weapons in different ways. It's the players that have this mentality that they have to roll for a god tier, it's useless otherwise, and when they do they try and sell it for thousands of plat. 

Rivens are not "gambling", because they require a resource to reroll that you can't buy with real money. You have to earn it in game. Can it become addicting? Yes, but it's not anything close to gambling.

[Makunogo]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

I've said it before, there is nothing wrong with rivens. They are a fun mechanic to enhance weapons in different ways. It's the players that have this mentality that they have to roll for a god tier, it's useless otherwise, and when they do they try and sell it for thousands of plat. 

Rivens are not "gambling", because they require a resource to reroll that you can't buy with real money. You have to earn it in game. Can it become addicting? Yes, but it's not anything close to gambling.

yes rivens is just an other thing to play with i dont understand the hostility. and the " i will never use rivens" mentality. to each their own but meh. why reject new customization options?

the reason great rivens are expensive is mostly because of the effort ( or luck ) to get good ones.

and rivens dont need to be god tier to be fun. i LOVE QOL on my rivens . i recently rolled -recoil on pyrana and the shotgun i once despised touching became useable.

[bibmobello]

47 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Rivens aren't gambling with money, it's just rolling the dice with resources and time. DE added a system that has insane RNG, but they don't condone gambling as Kuva and time is what you invest, not money. Locking stats is an awful idea and would completely trivialize the system.

Strictly speaking, rolling kuva is not considered gambling but it uses the same concepts and psychological tricks to influence (weak)players. The real problem is the random generation of DE is not fkin random at all! 

i got 2 fkin consecutive hema rivens and 2 corinth consecutive rivens and there are thousand of weapons!! Dual cestra is happy to come every time...

I am not lucky like this guy, i spent the kuva i had on trash rolls, at the end i stopped: +zoom,+ammo,+magazine,-damage,-crit on every roll on a total of 30!!!!

and i spent more than 150.000 kuva in total.

With the melee instead is easy to get decent rolls easily.

This is not random at all, this is a fkin pilotated slot machine system!

i would like to see the certification of their random system generator....

 

 

Who says a riven is  useless are the people can survive 10 minutes during survivals...

I like playing Arbitrations survival and at higher level a riven is a must, you can't go further without them, you can score a 3X 4X(and more) damage with them and over level 150 it helps..

i  have bought only a bunch of low cost rivens because i like to try weapons surely i don't spend more than 30/50 plat for a decent weapon. If people sell god rivens it's beacuse they don't fkin play this game at all, their fun is to earn thousand of plat to buy their precious pinky wings for their frames!

i don't understand what's the point for a ML 26 (full of evy mods and various craps) to still play sorties but play longer survivals...

 

And i can add the riven disposition is bullS#&$!!!!!

I just use an example, a tiberon prime has a 5 stars,  the argonak and other crappy weapons have 3 or less stars...

Edited January 10, 2019 by bibmobello

[Soulden]

For as much as I don't like the Riven's infinite rng mechanic as it opens the door to the possibility of a plethora of rng mechanics that could follow (not getting into the details, and sure DE and other players know what I mean/fear), they are not required to complete any of the current game content, therefore its effect are minimal to require devs attention.

My opinion of course, nothing more.

All grind is volunteer.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Souldend78

[LordPantaloonsthe3rd]

4 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Strictly speaking, rolling kuva is not considered gambling but it uses the same concepts and psychological tricks to influence (weak)players. The real problem is the random generation of DE is not fkin random at all! 

i got 2 fkin consecutive hema rivens and 2 corinth consecutive rivens and there are thousand of weapons!! Dual cestra is happy to come every time...

I am not lucky like this guy, i spent the kuva i had on trash rolls, at the end i stopped: +zoom,+ammo,+magazine,-damage,-crit on every roll on a total of 30!!!!

and i spent more than 150.000 kuva in total.

With the melee instead is easy to get decent rolls easily.

This is not random at all, this is a fkin pilotated slot machine system!

anecdotal evidence, if this were true i would have the same result and that is far from what ive gotten. RNG is RNG, it will appear to throw out patterns because our minds seek out patterns thats just how it is. Additionally while the act of using kuva to get random rolls does mimic gambling at a base level it doenst do any harm outside of potentially sucking away all your time. By that same logic running rathuum for specific mods like vengeful revenant is gambling too as youre burning time for a random reward.