CrimneroTR

Despoil Sucks (At Least For Camping) : Here Is Why

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Honestly, you're wrong. I'm only a mid-tier, maybe at best a low-end-of-high tier player, I used to have a full clan of complete idiots that could solo for three hours plus on every single survival though, so I did often get hard-carried through old Void farming missions for Prime Parts a lot, and one of the jobs I've had in my long, long time in farming, is The Nekros Player. I've successfully camped through multi-hour runs with a Despoil Nekros ever since the augment came out because of three things:

First, the Health drain is also affected by efficiency, meaning you drain less health for an efficient build, the same as you do with energy.

Second, I use more than just Desecrate in the mission. For example, the Health Conversion augment works pretty well, almost immediately stacking up to 1350 Armour (meaning a decent tally of 80% damage reduction on your health, so each Health Orb you pick up is actually worth over 5x as much) and maintaining that through the entire mission. Terrify is how you make sure you survive tight spots, if you have the range for Desecrate, then you have the range for Terrify, and it never needs to last all that long, just long enough to get out of the camp and back in.

Third, team members. Not for revives, although let's not be silly; everyone goes down in a survival at one time or another. Everyone needs a revive, it's not a bad thing, it's just a fact of playing the game. Team members provide CC, they provide the damage, they will also give you buffs. You need never even fall over as long as your team is working together. And if you're seeing a lot of Nekros players die? A better question to ask is; Why aren't you doing your job to make sure they don't? You're on the team too. Either do something about the enemies, or do something to help your Nekros.

5 hours ago, CrimneroTR said:

I have 800 hours in the game

Also, this doesn't really get you far. I'm not even a daily player and I've managed to clock over 1500 hours in mission, and I suspect that my friend DeMonkey up there has at least 2000 or so, if not 3000 (which is why he's so blunt in his reply). I also recognise SeniorClipClop there too, who's been around since a little after me, and is a more active player than I am, so is also likely approaching the 2000 mark.

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28 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

(which is why he's so blunt in his reply)

Blunt? Pfft.

I was answering the question, if OP wanted details they should have asked. :wink:

That's me, Helpful Monkey.

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my build if i remember it actually imma go log in and see it 

*one log in + waiting for hotfixs later* 

160% efficency and 175% Range 

toss in a rejuvenation and i can just exist doing it with out pause 

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2 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

no you don't have a clue about the energy drain rate when you have shadows active also I don't think that that works (I don't have it nor have I seen it in use) for reference it costs me 1.63 energy per second per healed target, with a full squad that is about 6.6 energy per second but I can get up to 40 energy per second with my current build (this is one the is spect toward efficiency so my stats are strength 235, range 100, duration 200, efficiency 130.  I can with hunter adrenalin get 40 energy per second if I am taking only 99 damage per second this is an ultra-rare occurrence and it is more common for you to lose energy in the time between waves and in any content that is sublevel 45 defending on team comp but not including a shadows necros) but when you activate your shadows they take aggro reducing the amount of damage I take and constantly take damage over time creating a drain of 11.55 per second between the two an Oberon has no choice but to cancel his 3 and then recast it somewhere where your shadow are unlikely to run to.  this is one of the biggest anti-synergies in the game.  while I understand the usefulness of a 90% DR in a build this prevents another frame from playing the game entierly.  Oberon has his health status balanced around renewal and its armor buff this make it so that if he can't cast renewal then he is very hard to play outside of sub level 20 areas.   now this could be fixed by not having renewal target the shadows but for some reason DE has not done this

Arcane Energize works on toggled abilities.

I use an Oberon that has no Rage/Hunter Adrenaline equipped, so some of my energy gains come from Arcane Energize and Deth Cube’s energy orb augment. It works really well.

As for the case of Nekros, I understand the concern but Arcane Energize helps to eleviate some of the burden of high-octane energy drain from his Shadows if an Oberon is present.

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7 hours ago, CrimneroTR said:

I have 800 hours in the game and I can confidently say that I have lost count of nekros players that die constantly during relic campings and still dont get the idea. I dont know if despoil is particularly useful for anything else, but it SUCKS while camping. It nearly always starts a bleed out train when enemies are above level 100. Also, if the dps is good, you wont even be able keep the health you gained from the orbs.

 

Think they and you might be doing something wrong.

I did this run before Djinn Augment, Fetch, Arcane changes, Adaptation and Zaws as well so he can certainty push longer now days.

Now there is an Energy based Nekros build for lvl 1,000+ content but that build also does not use Shadows, ever. It's there being protected by other players and used to use Soul Punch augment to revive players without leaving cover but Operators kinda made that pointless. Still that's not a build for lvl 100 or even 400.

Edited by Xzorn
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As people above me have said, the health drain is affected by power efficiency. Use even just a streamline, and a rejuvination aura, and you have free desecrate. The Nekros players you've been playing with are just bad.

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I know 40 mins Kuva Survival is nothing much even after I lost my kitgun and only had a Nikana Prime left along with two limbos that kept dying. I got the top damage as a Nekros and revived them a lot.

The thing is, Nekros is a very gimmicky frame so you need to use Gimmicky mods. Things like health conversion, equilibrium etc. Also, if camping, you cannot just stand there. You need to move around to pick up loot or else why camp? If you pick loot you pick health orbs.

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10 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

That's me, Helpful Monkey.

I didn't say that blunt couldn't be helpful... And I've just re-read that sentence and realised that any-way-you-take-it, it's not wrong... 😎

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As many others have mentioned, the OP is wrong and seriously misinformed. Here's why:

  • Health Orbs refill 25 health as a baseline, i.e. 2.5 Despoil casts at zero efficiency (because Despoil is affected by Power Efficiency). Because Desecrate spawns a tremendous amount of health orbs, it is therefore usually trivial for Nekros to keep himself topped up, even with zero or even negative efficiency, and this is without even counting the healing from his passive. If you are really struggling to heal with Nekros, you are almost certainly building wrong, but at the very least Arcane Pulse will help.
  • The reason people go for Despoil isn't simply because it removes Energy limitations to Nekros's most important ability, but because it also makes him more durable via Health Conversion: because of all the Health Orbs his ability spawns, he can easily accumulate three stacks, and keep himself topped up even while his shields are still up. Coupled with Shield of Shadows, this gives Nekros a significant amount of survivability.
  • Just to reiterate, if you are having trouble surviving as Nekros, you are likely building him wrong. He becomes very tanky with SOS builds, and it's possible to go for hybrid tank-Desecrate builds with SOS, Despoil, Health Conversion, Vitality, and range + strength. While this build tends to rely on some very specific mods, and is therefore poorly accessible to newer players, this should not be a problem for a player who's sunk 800+ hours into the game, and certainly not during relic missions.
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12 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

for a player who's sunk 800+ hours into the game, and certainly not during relic missions.

To be fair to OP, they aren't the one having trouble building Nekros.

To be unfair to OP, they're basing their entire judgement of the Augment and its viability on other people that are having trouble with building Nekros instead of actually going out and playing it to find out whether it's viable for themselves.

It's a pretty poor thing to base a feedback thread on.

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19 hours ago, CrimneroTR said:

A full efficiency build makes desecreate cost 2.5 energy per enemy killed. A fully ranked Despoil makes you lose 10 health instead. Energy pool is much larger than health pool and can be easily replenished by zenurik, trin or gears. Also, rushing out of the camping site with a full health bar to get energy is much safer than rushing out with 2 hp to get health. Health orbs dont give much health and a healer frame is not that useful in a camping mission (of course healing is always good, but there are many other ways to survive). So, why not just go with efficiency instead of constantly asking for revives and interrupting your own desecreate with low health? In harder missions like Mot or when enemies get to higher levels, Nekros is nearly certain to get one shot when on 2 hp, even by an enemy grenade.

I have 800 hours in the game and I can confidently say that I have lost count of nekros players that die constantly during relic campings and still dont get the idea. I dont know if despoil is particularly useful for anything else, but it SUCKS while camping. It nearly always starts a bleed out train when enemies are above level 100. Also, if the dps is good, you wont even be able keep the health you gained from the orbs.

Let me know if im wrong.

 

 

 

You are totally wrong. And I wonder why you ever think like that because you should know that Desecrate makes a ton of health orbs around the battlefield if you ever play Nekros and have used Desecrate at least once, or at least have a random Nekros buddy on the mission with random matching. And there are energy leech/parasitic eximus that burns out your energy and without Despoil you can't keep it work, and you can save the energy for casting Shadows of the Dead as well. It is an essential mod to play Nekros, and it actually helps to survive him and his comrade much longer and better.

It goes even better if you add Health Conversion, and Shield of Shadows, but Despoil itself already helps him to survive, rather than halts them. It is true that losing health is a risk if you don't use Health Conversion, but the reward is much better and make the party more reliable so it is always better to have the mod.

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Doesn't Nekros passive heal him for every enemy that dies around him? Wouldn't that be enough to counter the health drain that Despoil would cause? My Nekros barely ever goes down.

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So, my non-forma'd Nekros without health conversion, equilibrium, or SOS was able to survive without dying until enemies were about level 100 on a survival with some clanmates. And even then, I was foolish and went to go collect stuff with a bunch of enemies in the hallway. He seemed pretty durable just with max efficiency and rejuvenation. If I had been camping and not trying to pick stuff up, I certainly would not have died.

Not sure why people would be going down in PUGs but perhaps it doesn't have anything to do with despoil itself?

If I may ask a question, what is a good range to shoot for with Nekros? I had been running up to 70m, but is that too much? Am I sacrificing the ability to run other things with too many range mods?

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4 hours ago, (XB1)GameNerd300 said:

Doesn't Nekros passive heal him for every enemy that dies around him? Wouldn't that be enough to counter the health drain that Despoil would cause? My Nekros barely ever goes down.

It does, but only 10m of radius around him, so when you're on a camping run you're actually not supposed to be that close.

Just being fair, there. The OP is wrong in his assumptions, and the assumptions are based off only watching other people play, according to him, not on actual evidence.

4 hours ago, SupaTim said:

If I may ask a question, what is a good range to shoot for with Nekros? I had been running up to 70m, but is that too much? Am I sacrificing the ability to run other things with too many range mods?

I only run around 40m (160% range) works absolutely fine for me wherever I'm going, and also lets me get my Efficiency up to 170% with a decent Duration on there too of 143%. I could even drop part of the Efficiency to run one of the other Augments as well, like Creeping Terrify, just for fun ^^

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