(XBOX)Darthgollum 01 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 On 2019-01-11 at 4:08 AM, birdobash said: Title says it all, DE has a habit of adding augments to useless abilities to try and fix them, when they should just fix them outright. The most recent example is garas spectrosiphon augment, but another one I can remember is equinoxes 3 augment, since nobody used his 3 in night form due to the sad values on enemy debuff and hellish drain it has if not modded for insane efficiency. Without the augments slow, the ability in night form is not viable. Can we actually get fixes for abilities instead of random 1 off ability augments that seem like they shouldve been part of the ability in the first place? The augments are optional mods they're not a fix or bandaid or anything of the sort Limbos cataclysm works perfectly well without any augments the augment that goes with it makes it even better though same with all the augments they simply improve the ability the ability(s) de chooses to augment may be random or may not be so rather than taking some select examples from ones where the frames are overpowered/widely used and one ability isnt amazingly overpowered like the rest of them try looking at how de chooses the ability that gets the aug shouldn't take too long they should all be at the syndicates my hypothesis so far is everything gets an aug for its 4 and some get another aug on another ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Darthgollum 01 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 On 2019-01-15 at 2:00 AM, Andele3025 said: Just because you dont understand whats said doesnt mean its a attack. You are wrong in the sense of in every case that isnt a bandaid for nerf/afk playstyle the augments have no precedent in changing the fundamental effect of a skill. the few that do (Banshee & Nyx 4 for example) are there due to the base skill not gelling with the game loop of warframe and/or being a afk button that got nerfed at some point. And all frames are limited to 8 mod slots, every slot filled with a augment is 1 less filled with raw stats (which as said is good most of the time, but not on the few augments that dont benefit the users playstyle due to merely make the augmented skill less annoying for teammates). Cuz they don't need to change the base effect lol limbo's augment doesn't really have any other effects worth adding so they made kills in it increase duration mag's pull augment brings items to her its not amazingly useful but if you're using a sniper and you've found yourself a nice little snipers nest in survival the last thing you want to do is leave it for items and life support sure its a little situational with mag but what would they change about pulling enemies towards you and damaging them? She has another aug too for her 3 i believe that stuns enemies for ages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabnician Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 honestly the community knows what augments should just be added by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andele3025 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, (XB1)Darthgollum 01 said: Cuz they don't need to change the base effect lol limbo's augment doesn't really have any other effects worth adding so they made kills in it increase duration mag's pull augment brings items to her its not amazingly useful but if you're using a sniper and you've found yourself a nice little snipers nest in survival the last thing you want to do is leave it for items and life support sure its a little situational with mag but what would they change about pulling enemies towards you and damaging them? She has another aug too for her 3 i believe that stuns enemies for ages Kills keeping Cataclysm expanded is there for defense missions (kinda like how nova 4 augment exists despite 1 being a thing for mission type difference). Mag augment is old (from the times some dunces thought vacuum was a bad thing) and one of the few to who it wouldnt hurt if it was baked in default (especially since it cant pull for allies). Edited January 16, 2019 by Andele3025 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Darthgollum 01 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 2019-01-16 at 4:47 PM, Andele3025 said: Kills keeping Cataclysm expanded is there for defense missions (kinda like how nova 4 augment exists despite 1 being a thing for mission type difference). Mag augment is old (from the times some dunces thought vacuum was a bad thing) and one of the few to who it wouldnt hurt if it was baked in default (especially since it cant pull for allies). Yeah it sounds like you're trying to counter me but you're kinda proving my point (the mag part i wasn't bothered about as i said its situational) cataclysm for me with just a few duration mods on it it lasts around about 40-50s with a bunch of range in making it take up more or less an entire room (almost a full tile) increasing the duration on that is completely broken and unnecessary sure its nice to have on defence but its still absolutely not necessary i can cast it and stasis repeatedly eternally cuz they last so long that the energy used is regenerated by the time its done the ability wasn't useless before yet it still got the augment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Darthgollum 01 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I had a look at all the augments yesterday and every frame has at least 2 augments (bar the newest ones cuz presumably they're checking feedback for ideas) some frames like equinox have 4 augments and equinox augments cover both sides so sure his night 3 might not be amazing and his aug for it may not do much to help it but his other augments still exist and the very one that doesn't do much for his night 3 does stuff for his day 3 too so use that instead as for the gara aug shes the only one with 1 augment and i don't have gara but from the sounds of "splinter storm" im guessing it hits a lot of people so i imagine it's an attempt to damage/kill some enemies and with the aug eecovers her health (from what i can tell she seems like a defence-attack type so she probably takes a bunch of damage im not sure) but one way or another i often see it recommended to take a gara in even if only for her wall or whatever it was (also if you die the abilities all cancel so healing helps with the whole not dying) she seems mostly built for eange and duration too so the aug fits in nicely with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdobash Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, (XB1)Darthgollum 01 said: Yeah it sounds like you're trying to counter me but you're kinda proving my point (the mag part i wasn't bothered about as i said its situational) cataclysm for me with just a few duration mods on it it lasts around about 40-50s with a bunch of range in making it take up more or less an entire room (almost a full tile) increasing the duration on that is completely broken and unnecessary sure its nice to have on defence but its still absolutely not necessary i can cast it and stasis repeatedly eternally cuz they last so long that the energy used is regenerated by the time its done the ability wasn't useless before yet it still got the augment Except that cataclysmic continuum is not a band-aid fix, it's an actual real augment that affects cataclysm in a way that makes it better for one thing but less useful for another. The augment is useless on a low range high duration limbo, but it's good for a high range medium duration limbo, aka interception limbos. It's an augment that modifies the cataclysm to work better in interception but weakens it elsewhere since it's taking a mod slot, garas new spectrosiphon is nothing like that, it's just an energy generation mechanic glued onto a really bad CC ability. A good mindset when viewing CC abilities or mechanics in video games is that CC must be reliable to be useful, spectrorage is the opposite of reliable, it doesn't hard CC enemies but instead makes them waddle over inside of it, and then if enemies break through its minuscule amount of health it's just gone, no more CC, and that's if enemies actually decide to go for the mirrors instead of you, which if you're standing close enough they won't. Its the definition of unreliable, even nyx's chaos is technically better than it because at least enemies are always going to be CC'd within its duration even if they still can choose to aggro on you, whereas spectorage may break at insanely varying durations of time based on enemy level, enemy density, and enemy faction. Edited January 18, 2019 by birdobash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Darthgollum 01 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 10 hours ago, birdobash said: Except that cataclysmic continuum is not a band-aid fix, it's an actual real augment that affects cataclysm in a way that makes it better for one thing but less useful for another. The augment is useless on a low range high duration limbo, but it's good for a high range medium duration limbo, aka interception limbos. It's an augment that modifies the cataclysm to work better in interception but weakens it elsewhere since it's taking a mod slot, garas new spectrosiphon is nothing like that, it's just an energy generation mechanic glued onto a really bad CC ability. A good mindset when viewing CC abilities or mechanics in video games is that CC must be reliable to be useful, spectrorage is the opposite of reliable, it doesn't hard CC enemies but instead makes them waddle over inside of it, and then if enemies break through its minuscule amount of health it's just gone, no more CC, and that's if enemies actually decide to go for the mirrors instead of you, which if you're standing close enough they won't. Its the definition of unreliable, even nyx's chaos is technically better than it because at least enemies are always going to be CC'd within its duration even if they still can choose to aggro on you, whereas spectorage may break at insanely varying durations of time based on enemy level, enemy density, and enemy faction. I kinda disagree with yer point about being useless on low range cataclysm but i think i see what you mean about the band aid part (though even then i still think the abilities are fine) I think nyxs chaos is decent but only really for stunning otherwise it works like radiation procs they attack the closest stuffs it has its uses though And garas aug heals 3 health per second per enemy effected not energy (not sure if the health goes to it or gara) and as i said(or at least meant to say) her abilities seem to have too many stat dependencies to be very useful unless you build specifically for a couple of abilities (for using the aug id say range and ability strength with some duration if it affects it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Darthgollum 01 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Im not sure how old gara is either but i think she was quite new compared to the others so she's probably similar to revenant and garuda but with a bit more time around (i.e she's got a kinda 'template' augment but she isn't finished with yet) though as i said not sure how old she is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdobash Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 50 minutes ago, (XB1)Darthgollum 01 said: I kinda disagree with yer point about being useless on low range cataclysm but i think i see what you mean about the band aid part (though even then i still think the abilities are fine) I mean for cataclysmic continuum to trigger enemies must be inside the rift aka inside the cataclysm (unless you banish) so it's not so useful on low range cataclysms since if you're not a good limbo you'll most likely leave enemies banished in the rift, and since stasis should be on for low range limbo it results in enemies getting stuck and teammates being angry. Less of a problem if you ARE a good limbo, but again it's just a lot more effective on high range med duration limbo because you don't have to worry about banish and unbanishing as much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Darthgollum 01 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 14 hours ago, birdobash said: I mean for cataclysmic continuum to trigger enemies must be inside the rift aka inside the cataclysm (unless you banish) so it's not so useful on low range cataclysms since if you're not a good limbo you'll most likely leave enemies banished in the rift, and since stasis should be on for low range limbo it results in enemies getting stuck and teammates being angry. Less of a problem if you ARE a good limbo, but again it's just a lot more effective on high range med duration limbo because you don't have to worry about banish and unbanishing as much. I never said low range was as efficient simply that its still useful and as long as you don't use corrupted mods reducing the range further the size is big enough to cover the cryopod and have some space for others its less efficient yes but firstly why would anyone build a duration only limbo when hes clearly designed for range too and secondly as you said a good limbo can make it work plus the already crazy duration would be even crazier As for angry teammates: all due respect to teammates but fck em if they don't like me using limbo they can play solo or leave the squad and find another team to play with the whole "limbo is annoying" is itself really annoying sure it's weird being banished and accidentally tripping through the portal thing but as long as the limbo doesn't spam the portals around everywhere or specifically target you and you alone (aka trolling which is responded to with the report button) then he's just doing his job and anyone whos complaining is either sour cuz they didn't notice it for ages or just wants all the kills to themselves (also limbos 4 is lethal with stasis when they're at the edge cuz it damages them as they enter) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)big_eviljak Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Creates synergy with energy conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)big_eviljak Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 14 hours ago, birdobash said: I mean for cataclysmic continuum to trigger enemies must be inside the rift aka inside the cataclysm (unless you banish) so it's not so useful on low range cataclysms since if you're not a good limbo you'll most likely leave enemies banished in the rift, and since stasis should be on for low range limbo it results in enemies getting stuck and teammates being angry. Less of a problem if you ARE a good limbo, but again it's just a lot more effective on high range med duration limbo because you don't have to worry about banish and unbanishing as much. Who cares. Good limbo... Not so good limbo... Teamates dont like it... They can leave. Especially since everyone has their own opinion on what "good" actually is. Alot of people whine just because its limbo. Good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Darthgollum 01 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 11 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said: Creates synergy with energy conversion. Isnt energy conversion the one that converts energy to shields which (at least my build of) limbo doesn't need when you use augur stuffs to up the range duration and (if ya want) shields and the other stuffs as well as effectively being the energy conversion in part at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Darthgollum 01 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Tbh playing with limbos is weird...idk if it was new players or just completely different styles but id always end up banished right as i was about to attack stuff (maybe they had the aug for his banish and i didn't realize I was low health or maybe i got in the way as they were casting it both are plausible 😅) he's one of the ones where you kinda need to know what yer doing if you want to use his banish in a team (i use cataclysm mostly his banish scares me cuz they end up everywhere and nothing is safe then i die horribly 😂) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)big_eviljak Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 12 hours ago, (XB1)Darthgollum 01 said: Isnt energy conversion the one that converts energy to shields which (at least my build of) limbo doesn't need when you use augur stuffs to up the range duration and (if ya want) shields and the other stuffs as well as effectively being the energy conversion in part at least No, Energy Conversion is a Warframe mod that increases Ability Strength for the next ability cast after picking up an energy orb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Darthgollum 01 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 19 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said: No, Energy Conversion is a Warframe mod that increases Ability Strength for the next ability cast after picking up an energy orb. Ah oke i forget which is which Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Darthgollum 01 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 why would limbo need ability strength though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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