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LeftTheMatrix

Fix PVP By Implementing MOBA Mode

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17 minutes ago, LeftTheMatrix said:

If there are so many of these posts, doesn't that mean there is a large interest?

The forums are a minuscule fraction of the player base. A minuscule fraction within this same group keeps beating a dead horse. Some of the same people keep bringing it up. "How about now? how about now?" 

This isn't a large interest. It's a vocal minority.

In a player base snapshot of a weekend DE shared 2 years ago, 1.07% of players pvp'ed. 1.29% played the raids. Only reason raids were axed and not conclave as well. There was msssive overhead investment keeping raids working patch to patch. 

Major pvp DE investment needs interest. Can't make interest without content. They are not going to commit on a hope and a dream like they did lunaro. They know the vast majority interest is pve.

Edited by Firetempest
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On one hand, this would be a nightmare to balance.

On the other, it would give another reason for DE to rebalance the current PvE stats of frames for competitive play, weapons and mods bringing the possibility of an endgame worthy game mode closer.

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23 минуты назад, LeftTheMatrix сказал:

If there are so many of these posts, doesn't that mean there is a large interest?

Most of this threads have several things in common:

- there is another PvP thread nearby;

- the first response is a "no";

- someone will take time to politely point out that chasing trends and turning WF into another game is not the best idea;

- someone will point out that PtP hosting is terrible for PvP;

- someone will point out that Conclave is barely alive;

- someone will ask OP to stop beating the dead horse;

- someone will break ToS and/or etiquette;

- DeMonkey will subtly and politely fling poo at someone who broken ToS and/or etiquette;

- there will be trolls;

- and salt;

- "toxic" termin will be used;

- thread will be moved into more appropriate section of forum and die;

- oooooorrrr, it will catch a fire and will be deleted.

Edited by rand0mname
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37 minutes ago, kgabor said:

On one hand, this would be a nightmare to balance.

On the other, it would give another reason for DE to rebalance the current PvE stats of frames for competitive play, weapons and mods bringing the possibility of an endgame worthy game mode closer.

Balance imho is part of the reason that PVP has never really taken off in Warframe. Warframe is predominantly a PvE power fantasy with weapons that can easily one shot any Warframe no matter how tankie. Hell I have my Lenz so tanked out that the initial AOE Proc (not the explosion after the fact, just the cold proc) is enough to instadown most of my frames. Flashforward to PvP where all of those same weapons feel like your slapping the other player with a wet noodle. Which is in large part by nececity as it is fun to occasionally LOL oneshot someone else it is not fun to get LOL oneshot constantly yourself, nor is it fun in the long run to LOL oneshot everyone always. Which are the scenarios that would result if the weapons remained untouched. 

The problem then is that because of the extreme tinkering all the weapons/gear in PvP feel too disconnected for a lot of people to really get behind. It's like the uncanny valley of game modes, it just feels weird. Same thing is going to happen with MOBA balancing, it's going to have to be so substantial that it would really just need to be it's own game. 

Tho being it's own game might work. They could certainly re-use assets from Warframe but it would be sufficiently disconnected that the disconnect that would otherwise be quite jarring and offputting would just work. Maybe tie the two together by proxy of the fact that you can earn resources for either by playing the other. 

I hesitate to even suggest it but maybe a mobile spin off game would be the best course of action if the intent was to "expand the brand" (why do I suddenly feel like Frohd Bek?) something that would keep people playing Warframe on the go, even when they weren't playing "Warframe". 

 

Or...... it could just be a gigantic pit that developers throw money into that never has an ROI ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Oreades
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37 minutes ago, rhuug said:

well actually there were some pretty toxic comments made...

Thats because there is a new PvP thread made nearly every day, asking for Battle Royale modes, spaceship combat, D&D style modes and god knows how many other frequently ridiculous ideas.

 

Gets kinda annoying after a while. I swear some of them are deliberately trolling, but most act like this is the first time anyone has ever mentioned the subject.

 

Also none of them appears to be aware there is a Feedback section of the forum, precisely for posts like these.

 

So yeah, people are gonna be hostile when they see the umpteenth post on exactly the same subject made by the latest muppet who is incapable of using forum search functions, or posting in the appropriate section of the forum.

 

All this even before you get to the fact that PvP fans make up a tiny proportion of the player base (less than 1%).

 

Edited by FlusteredFerret
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4 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Thats because there is a new PvP thread made nearly every day, asking for Battle Royale modes, spaceship combat, D&D style modes and god knows how many other frequently ridiculous ideas.

 

Gets kinda annoying after a while. I swear some of them are deliberately trolling, but most act like this is the first time anyone has ever mentioned the subject.

 

Also none of them appears to be aware there is a Feedback section of the forum, precisely for posts like these.

 

So yeah, people are gonna be hostile when they see the umpteenth post on exactly the same subject made by the latest muppet who is incapable of using forum search functions, or posting in the appropriate section of the forum.

 

All this even before you get to the fact that PvP fans make up a tiny proportion of the player base (less than 1%).

 

I'm not trolling. This is my first time ever on the forums and I thought of the idea without realizing it's a reoccurring topic.

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let's make the content drought even worse (better?) by diverting more resources away from the main focus of the game.

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1 hour ago, LeftTheMatrix said:

My idea is from a game I used to play before  I played Warframe. That game is Paragon.

Paragone now...  ;( i used to play that game with my childhood friend.

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3 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

let's make the content drought even worse (better?) by diverting more resources away from the main focus of the game.

Oh please you act like theres actual resources going into the main game, as evident by the lack of any good content and the content being pushed id say theres barely any focus or resources that or thered an inbalance in certain departments at DE, DE already have a pvp focused team as evident by the weapon balancing changes and conclave changes implemented in most updates.  

  

Stop shooting down posts because their repeated, Aggresive Apathy isnt goung to help anyone, if theres alot of posts asking for change that means they want change.

Edited by (PS4)Wolfou_Jams
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13 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Balance imho is part of the reason that PVP has never really taken off in Warframe. Warframe is predominantly a PvE power fantasy with weapons that can easily one shot any Warframe no matter how tankie. Hell I have my Lenz so tanked out that the initial AOE Proc (not the explosion after the fact, just the cold proc) is enough to instadown most of my frames. Flashforward to PvE where all of those same weapons feel like your slapping the other player with a wet noodle. Which is in large part by nececity as it is fun to occasionally LOL oneshot someone else it is not fun to get LOL oneshot constantly yourself, nor is it fun in the long run to LOL oneshot everyone always. Which are the scenarios that would result if the weapons remained untouched. 

The problem then is that because of the extreme tinkering all the weapons/gear in PvP feel too disconnected for a lot of people to really get behind. It's like the uncanny valley of game modes, it just feels weird. Same thing is going to happen with MOBA balancing, it's going to have to be so substantial that it would really just need to be it's own game. 

Tho being it's own game might work. They could certainly re-use assets from Warframe but it would be sufficiently disconnected that the disconnect that would otherwise be quite jarring and offputting would just work. Maybe tie the two together by proxy of the fact that you can earn resources for either by playing the other. 

I hesitate to even suggest it but maybe a mobile spin off game would be the best course of action if the intent was to "expand the brand" (why do I suddenly feel like Frohd Bek?) something that would keep people playing Warframe on the go, even when they weren't playing "Warframe". 

 

Or...... it could just be a gigantic pit that developers throw money into that never has an ROI ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think you're one of a few people who has hit the nail on the head.

In order to create a balanced PvP experience, they would practically have to create a new game...which would obviously divert a lot of resources away from the core game.

 

A mobile spin-off could be worth investigating...its something that has worked well for Wargaming with World of Tanks Blitz. Just depends on whether DE can / want to commit the time & money into producing something like that.

 

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1 минуту назад, LeftTheMatrix сказал:

I'm not trolling. This is my first time ever on the forums and I thought of the idea without realizing it's a reoccurring topic.

Welcome to the rabbit hole. You sure know how to make an entrance :).

Other interesting topics include: Limbo, leechers, grind, burnout, overused memes and freedom of speech, content drought, Baro salt, something about Eidolons, speed-running vs opening every locker, a pit of despair and depravity AKA trade chat, nukers kill-stealing everything, noobs complaining about each other, RNG conspiracies, Limbo and Excalibur Prime. And lore.

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)Wolfou_Jams said:

Oh please you act like theres actual resources going into the main game, as evident by the lack of any good content and the content being pushed id say theres barely any focus or resources that or thered an inbalance in certain departments at DE, DE already have a pvp focused team as evident by the weapon balancing changes and conclave changes implemented in most updates.  

  

Stop shooting down posts because their repeated, Aggresive Apathy isnt goung to help anyone, if theres alot of posts asking for change that means they want change.

You clearly haven't watched any dev streams or you would realise how ridiculous you sound.

And your opinion on whether the content is any good is highly subjective (and a load of crap IMHO).

 

Also, as with most gaming communities, its generally accepted (tho I don't know how true this is) that only a fraction of the player base usually bothers posting on the forums. So just because there are a lot of posts made on a forum, it is in no way any indication that a large percentage of the player base actually wants anything.

Again, official stats show less than 1% of the player base bother with PvP and that is not a sound basis for investing time & money into developing something, when there is no guarantee it will pay dividends. DE have tried incorporating PvP modes into the game before and they have all tanked for one reason or another.

 

 

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did you know at one point dark sectors were MOBAS? so yah, they already did it, and it still didnt work

the main problem of why warframe's pvp doesnt work is because they dont have dedicated servers, as long as they dont have them, people wont play pvp in any form

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15 minutes ago, LeftTheMatrix said:

I'm not trolling. This is my first time ever on the forums and I thought of the idea without realizing it's a reoccurring topic.

Well, apologies if my response came across as harsh, but sadly it is true.

And I haven't even been here all that long myself (getting on for a year and a half). I'm by no means a veteran, but the number of posts I've seen from people, wanting to turn the game into PUBG, Fortnite, CoD, LoL, Elite Dangerous, or any other number of games is laughable.

Thing is, DE have tried this before and got burned, because the modes did not prove popular, so they are obviously going to be reluctant to have another go. Especially when their data tells them very few people actually bother with PvP.

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Didn't Titanfall have some kind of PvP thingy with MOBA-esque elements?  So that a player could fight the enemy or the enemy's forces and greatly contribute to the team's success without confronting another player directly?  I never played Titanfall, but I remember hearing about it and thinking it sounded interesting.

I suppose something like that could work in Warframe, but that would still be a major undertaking to make, and probably not worth the investment.

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36 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

You clearly haven't watched any dev streams or you would realise how ridiculous you sound.

And your opinion on whether the content is any good is highly subjective (and a load of crap IMHO).

(i gather that your's clearly not)

 

Also, as with most gaming communities, its generally accepted (tho I don't know how true this is) that only a fraction of the player base usually bothers posting on the forums. So just because there are a lot of posts made on a forum, it is in no way any indication that a large percentage of the player base actually wants anything.

Again, official stats show less than 1% of the player base bother with PvP and that is not a sound basis for investing time & money into developing something, when there is no guarantee it will pay dividends. DE have tried incorporating PvP modes into the game before and they have all tanked for one reason or another.

 

 

ye this dude is not toxic at all... regardless attacking other people won't make this game's problem go away and it doesn't take a genius to see DE's been basking in it's fading glory for a while now , no amount of devstreams saying anything would change it.

fortuna was a big excuse and its still riddled with problems as we all know it,same for PoE, but the same can be said for many part of this game wich were poorly implemented and never touched upon later....i love this game but the feeling is DE would rather just keep it crunching rather then really make it great as demonstarted by the fact tha we are still in beta since years.

also we are OT.

p.s.

id' like to remind anyone this is a forum, by definition a place for people to express they'r opinions not a an inquisition committee for the eradication of bad ideas

Edited by rhuug
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im sorry, but paragon didnt fail just because of epic's management. and no, warframe community has made it clear that they dont care about pvp in this game. 

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4 minutes ago, Chaemyerelis said:

Sounds like a half assed terrible idea.

see this guy (although rudish/toxic in his communication) kinda gets it

2 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

im sorry, but paragon didnt fail just because of epic's management. and no, warframe community has made it clear that they dont care about pvp in this game. 

this guy thinks he knows what everyone thinks, he doesn't get it

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2 minutes ago, rhuug said:

this guy thinks he knows what everyone thinks, he doesn't get it

no, im just stating a fact that whenever these kind of conversations pop in anywhere from reddit to forums to several large discord servers, peoples reactions are mainly indifferent or against it. its not difficult to see this. 

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1 minute ago, Zeclem said:

no, im just stating a fact that whenever these kind of conversations pop in anywhere from reddit to forums to several large discord servers, peoples reactions are mainly indifferent or against it. its not difficult to see this. 

except you dindn't, with this articulation now your statement is an opinion based on informations and it makes sense

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Just now, rhuug said:

except you dindn't, with this articulation now your statement is an opinion based on informations and it makes sense

except i did. if i didnt, show me one place where people actually clearly and as a majority, wants more pvp in this game and has the population size to back it up. 

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