S.Dust

Why PVP would benefit DE (not a rework conclave post)

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PVP in warframe is something that some enjoy and some people have an unreasonable hatred for with arguments like, the devs could be spending time on better things which is both true and wrong because the devs spend time on somethings that really dont go very far and don't have very good replay value but hey that's how the community views things. I am gonna give a reason why good pvp would benefit DE and bring in new players.

If you look at the top games played on twitch right now what will you notice... they all have a competitive component or a straight forward goal to follow along with; In warframe often times the streamer is just farming things or doing a self thought out goal because the game just lacks things worth doing sometimes which kinda goes back to the games bad replay value, but with pvp you play to win thats the goal you just wanna win and kill things or reach an objective and you might have some epic moments here and there, and maybe can have a bunch of people join and have fun. Warframes PVP to many people is lacking (I think its fun sometimes) but at the same time everyone wants to just let it die and move on but if you look at all the twitch related things Warframe has been doing it is very clear they want to create and audience on twitch, they do prime for prime, they do twitch giveaways for new updates, they do their streams with giveaways throughout the week like prime time and the dev stream on twitch along with giveaways but even with all that, outside of when there is a free item to get most people don't care for warframe streams because you're not watching a story the majority of the time and you're not seeing someone go towards a concrete goal or have fun with a group, if you're in a warframe stream you are probably either there for the streamer or a giveaway not the game. PVP would just allow for a better audience and more interaction with viewers in a just draws more attention. 

Warframe doesn't necessarily need to rework PVP but they could encourage streamers to do conclave streams more and play with viewers and if it goes well then we would see that conclave has the potential to succeed and draw a crowd. 

Enjoy roasting me in the comments and have a nice day.

 I placed the post in the conclave forums for the people that really wanted me to here is the link to it just saying now it's the same exact post. I will be leaving a link to this post in that one for people who want to read the comments here.

 

Edited by S.Dust
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2 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

Enjoy roasting me in the comments and have a nice day.

Just giving another "NO!" for PVP without insulting 🙂 

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0576bfb66dddcbcb809540ecf9e51fc4.png

This is two years old.

To waste time, money, resources you need interest. Interest needs content. Catch 22 and they were already burned by lunaro.

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What with this past 7 days and these topics(pvp,battle royale, moba)😧.....if you have an idea, post in the feedback subfourm.

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2 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

0576bfb66dddcbcb809540ecf9e51fc4.png

This is two years old.

To waste time, money, resources you need interest. Interest needs content. Catch 22 and they were already burned by lunaro.

did you even read the end of the post.

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Just now, HellVOps said:

What with this past 7 days and these topics(pvp,battle royale, moba)😧.....if you have an idea, post in the feedback subfourm.

I've noticed but the point of this was to give a reason outside of it would be fun and what they could do to make it better i'm talking more about the benefits of growing it even if it's just asking their partners to play it with viewers a bit

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Given the variety of different frame powers balancing PvP would be impossible I think. Most of the games peple have been posting about only have weapons to balance.

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14 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

PVP in warframe is something that some enjoy and some people have an unreasonable hatred for with arguments like, the devs could be spending time on better things which is both true and wrong because the devs spend time on somethings that really dont go very far and don't have very good replay value but hey that's how the community views things. I am gonna give a reason why good pvp would benefit DE and bring in new players.

If you look at the top games played on twitch right now what will you notice... they all have a competitive component or a straight forward goal to follow along with; In warframe often times the streamer is just farming things or doing a self thought out goal because the game just lacks things worth doing sometimes which kinda goes back to the games bad replay value, but with pvp you play to win thats the goal you just wanna win and kill things or reach an objective and you might have some epic moments here and there, and maybe can have a bunch of people join and have fun. Warframes PVP to many people is lacking (I think its fun sometimes) but at the same time everyone wants to just let it die and move on but if you look at all the twitch related things Warframe has been doing it is very clear they want to create and audience on twitch, they do prime for prime, they do twitch giveaways for new updates, they do their streams with giveaways throughout the week like prime time and the dev stream on twitch along with giveaways but even with all that, outside of when there is a free item to get most people don't care for warframe streams because you're not watching a story the majority of the time and you're not seeing someone go towards a concrete goal or have fun with a group, if you're in a warframe stream you are probably either there for the streamer or a giveaway not the game. PVP would just allow for a better audience and more interaction with viewers in a just draws more attention. 

Warframe does necessarily need to rework PVP but they could encourage streamers to do conclave streams more and play with viewers and if it goes well then we would see that conclave has the potential to succeed and draw a crowd. 

Enjoy roasting me in the comments and have a nice day.

 

 

May I direct your attention (and that of every other PvP fan) here?

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/114-conclave/

 

Stop clogging General Discussion up with these damn threads!

 

Now onto your post: much as I don't care for PvP, I can understand that a competitive element to the game MIGHT attract more CCs / streamers and thus gain Warframe more attention. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Now onto the cons: DE already have a very full schedule as it is, just trying to keep stuff coming for the game, bug fixing, re-working old content etc. In order to create a balanced PvP experience, they would basically have to create a new game. They already got burned when Conclave didn't work out and their data tells them very few people bother with it.

Which is not a sound business case for devoting time & resources into creating a new PvP mode.

 

Of course, it MIGHT help if all the PvP fans bothered to post some constructive feedback in the appropriate section of the forum, which would give DE some idea of what might make a successful PvP mode...

Edited by FlusteredFerret
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a Big no from me, and from my experience is that pvp in a mostly pve game will destroy the pve side because of balancing weapons, character skillsets etc.

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26 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

May I direct your attention (and that of every other PvP fan) here?

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/114-conclave/

 

Stop clogging General Discussion up with these damn threads!

 

Now onto your post: much as I don't care for PvP, I can understand that a competitive element to the game MIGHT attract more CCs / streamers and thus gain Warframe more attention. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Now onto the cons: DE already have a very full schedule as it is, just trying to keep stuff coming for the game, bug fixing, re-working old content etc. In order to create a balanced PvP experience, they would basically have to create a new game. They already got burned when Conclave didn't work out and their data tells them very few people bother with it.

Which is not a sound business case for devoting time & resources into creating a new PvP mode.

 

Of course, it MIGHT help if all the PvP fans bothered to post some constructive feedback in the appropriate section of the forum, which would give DE some idea of what might make a successful PvP mode...

I literally never said to rework conclave in this post I said encourage partners to play it more just cause the post says PVP in it doesnt mean its a rework request.

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First of all, this belongs to Conclave Feedback, not General Discussion.

Conclave is not popular because it's hard. That's it. No excuses. It is not good for it but it is what you'd expect.

Making it easier means making it not Warframe.

Streamers don't play hard games for obvious reasons.

The procedure of reworking the Conclave would be hard, long and painful. DE don't want to bother.

Edited by ant99999
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I love how no one is actually talking about the post and only going back to their basic argument of no we hate pvp so we will just say that. Im not asking for a freaking overhaul of the game Im not even asking the devs to put work into changing anything at all, this seem more like a community manager thing if anything.

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1 minute ago, ant99999 said:

First of all, this belongs to Conclave Feedback, not General Discussion.

Conclave is not popular because it's hard. That's it. No excuses. It is npt good for it but it is what you'd expect.

Making it easier means making it not Warframe.

Streamers don't play hard games for obvious reasons.

The procedure of eeworking the Conclave would be hard, long and painful. DE don't want to bother.

First general discussion can be for alot of things and im not asking for a change to conclave directly at all in this post.

Second conclave isnt popular for some people for that reason and for other people they just dont touch it because of how negative the community is about it.

third streamers do play hard games look at dota and lol they are not the easiest games in the world, and i hate to say this but even fortnite can be hard to get good at but it's at the top of twitch most of the time.

Finally I NEVER SAY REWORK CONCLAVE in this post. I say to encourage streamers to play with groups of viewers and the streamer can set rules for weapons and frames as they please.

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The biggest issue of conclave atm is the lack of advertising from DE and bad propaganda from wf partners to it. If DE encouraged partners or streamers to learn about pvp and play it with their viewers on stream, you can be sure people would start catching on, feedback would increase and there would make sense to start actually working on improving it.

36 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Of course, it MIGHT help if all the PvP fans bothered to post some constructive feedback in the appropriate section of the forum, which would give DE some idea of what might make a successful PvP mode...

Between the people who want a BR, those looking for a MOBA, players who want Frame Fighter or Komi as a conclave mods, players who want it to become CS, Quake, 4D Chess, etc; players with an unjustified hate against pvp, and those who enjoy conclave made around warframe gameplay, such thread would be a huge mess from which nothing might come out after all.

Edited by ----Legacy----
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23 minutes ago, kotex073 said:

a Big no from me, and from my experience is that pvp in a mostly pve game will destroy the pve side because of balancing weapons, character skillsets etc.

That point is moot since PvP balance already exists and doesn't affect PvE's lack of it.

On topic, it would be nice if DE gave more coverage to conclave like they did back when community managers would play it on stream or, as pointed by OP, they somehow encouraged streamers to learn about conclave and play it so more people got a better look at it, and the best thing about OP's idea is that it doesn't require as much resources from DE like actualy changing the mode, but might have an impact good enough to make them go back to work in some really needed pvp improvements, things such as a match/server browser, fine tuning balance, or even an actual skill based matchmaking since RC's current implentation is a joke.

Edited by Stormdragon
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@S.Dust I recommend Conclave Feedback not because General Discussion isn't suitable, but because it is a forums section specialized on Conclave discussions (and this not only means how to rework it, it is 'feedback').

Everything you say here was already mentioned there and my answer was a very short summary of ideas being expressed a lot of times.

If you want more in-depth discussion instead of a crowd of people not even reading your post before answering, it is a lot better to make a post there.

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If they're not already streaming Conclave, maybe they're not doing it because they don't like it, or it's not good for streaming, or it's just not popular enough anyway. DE asking them to won't change any of those really

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The reason I never said to touch anything about conclave is because I understand there are mixed feelings about putting work into it thats why I suggested starting by encouraging streamers to start groups that play on stream. If something is unbalanced the streamer could request people stop using it for the fun of the group and it would just be more enjoyable for everyone as well as more fun to watch for twitch viewers that aren't playing along.

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PVP can be great in Warframe but first, 3 things need to happen which i don't ever see happening soon.

1. We would need reliable servers all the time. (That p2p hosting does not cut it)

2. This game needs some serious balancing and complete reworking of many abilities before good pvp can be had

3. A lot of closed-minded people here who only know the word "no" without actually giving proper/better solutions needs to go.

 

@S.Dust I think your post has some good points. It's just the current state and future plans of the game would need to dramatically change first.

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Just now, ShinTechG said:

PVP can be great in Warframe but first, 3 things need to happen which i don't ever see happening soon.

1. We would need reliable servers all the time. (That p2p hosting does not cut it)

2. This game needs some serious balancing and complete reworking of many abilities before good pvp can be had

3. A lot of closed-minded people here who only know the word "no" without actually giving proper/better solutions needs to go.

 

@S.Dust I think your post has some good points. It's just the current state and future plans of the game would need to dramatically change first.

I think doing balance changes off the bat would be a problem because so many people are against having the devs spend time on that which is why I felt it was best to start with streamers and have them set rules if people want to be invited to join. Like a streamer could say excal only and only the braton m1 with a regular lex (using these as examples because they can be gotten with credits only).

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I hope DE dont put (more) work and my money in PVP. A good cooperative game is better than to have a pvp and poe, wich, in case of warframe, would be two different worlds. I mean, the list of potential improvments for the current poe game are huge and the count of DE'ler not endless.

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57 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

Warframe does necessarily need to rework PVP but they could encourage streamers to do conclave streams more and play with viewers and if it goes well then we would see that conclave has the potential to succeed and draw a crowd.

Assuming that is a "doesn't" typo, yes?

 

What makes you think that some PR is all that stands in the way of the Conclave becoming popular? Do you think the Quick Steel and Hearts & Arrows events weren't adequate enough PR attempts to draw players to the Conclave?

 

1 minute ago, S.Dust said:

If something is unbalanced the streamer could request people stop using it for the fun of the group and it would just be more enjoyable for everyone as well as more fun to watch for twitch viewers that aren't playing along.

This would be disingenuous to viewers, and border on false advertising (without continuous disclaimers).

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