Baruuk's got a lot of energy for an unprimed melee frame

[HC217]

300's a lot, as in top of the charts with primed casters like volt and saryn, and going by the last few frames it seems like a lot of them are getting a large energy pool for no discernible reason. why does garuda have 270 base when she's got an energy restore baked into her kit? if we're giving insane energy pools to beeftanks then why can't wukong, valkyr, inaros all have 300 energy too? not asking for nerfs, just trying to understand why energy capacity seems to be on the rise in newer frames while older frames get the shaft

[DeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, HC217 said:

if we're giving insane energy pools to beeftanks then why can't wukong

Because DE don't want to break their "we're never ever tweaking this frame" streak.

It's been 3 years and 27 days since his kit was last touched, why ruin that now by making him a better and more enjoyable frame /s. 

Yeah, I don't really see why Baruuk deserves such a high energy pool to be honest, hell, his 4th ability doesn't even cost any energy to use.

[GinKenshin]

Because they don’t need them? It’s only a happening when there’s a necessity. You fail to mention that garuda loses hp when you she gains hp too 

 

  Valkyr hardly needs energy because of her hp and armor, Inaros as well and so does wukong, even if he does need it, we’ll wait until his rework to see if he gets it 

 

 

  Seriously, our of all the things to complain about >_>

[HC217]

1 minute ago, GinKenshin said:

Because they don’t need them? It’s only a happening when there’s a necessity. You fail to mention that garuda loses hp when you she gains hp too 

 

  Valkyr hardly needs energy because of her hp and armor, Inaros as well and so does wukong, even if he does need it, we’ll wait until his rework to see if he gets it 

 

 

  Seriously, our of all the things to complain about >_>

there's a million other threads complaining about his kit, figured i'd save us all some time. garuda losing hp is good and useless at the same time. useless because of her insane regen ability and good because of her passive. so yeah, she's got a lot of energy she'll never need so it's weird for her to have a large energy pool.

does it occur to you that valkyr and wukong are prime examples of beeftank frames with exalted ults and unkillable powers? as in, they're as good comparisons to baruuk as you can find. and they both arguably perform better than him with half the energy pool. so my question becomes, why does baruuk have a huge energy pool? only reasons i can think of is for elude to be a set and forget (which DE's said they don't like as an ability), or someone was spamming desolate hands in playtesting, because otherwise that's way too much energy for a tank.

 

seriously, baruuk's so bland a frame that you can't justify his energy pool otherwise <_<

[LSG501]

High energy pool is likely due to his first ability being a energy drain ability. 

Yes I know most people are now probably doing builds that basically ignore the first ability because of how poor it is against AoE damage but DE did promote baruuk primarily on that first ability and as such built the stats around the kit they expected people to be using....

[Aldain]

38 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

It's been 3 years and 27 days since his kit was last touched

I can't tell if this is dedication to a frame or desperation that maybe DE will notice...

On topic, 300 does seem like a bit much when you consider other energy hungry frames have less, though I prefer slotting in efficiency whenever possible.

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I can't tell if this is dedication to a frame or desperation that maybe DE will notice...

Which one doesn't make me seem like an idiot. 

It's a bit of both.

[Aldain]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

Which one doesn't make me seem like an idiot. 

It's a bit of both.

Well you have my support for getting him reworked, as useless as my support is.

On topic, I just figured out why Baruuk has more energy than most frames, his abilities have less of a direct impact when used until his restraint is reduced to zero, as a result he NEEDS the energy to keep using his abilities so that he can reduce his restraint. This would be difficult to manage without a larger energy pool and people would likely not be fond of needing to drop a flow mod in just to be effective.

[-Sentient-]

Oh god please do not nerf him

[MickThejaguar]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

It's been 3 years and 27 days since his kit was last touched,

What do you mean? Didn't you see the amazing Cloudwalker augment that totally makes Cloudwalker a worthwhile ability.

[HC217]

 

46 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Well you have my support for getting him reworked, as useless as my support is.

On topic, I just figured out why Baruuk has more energy than most frames, his abilities have less of a direct impact when used until his restraint is reduced to zero, as a result he NEEDS the energy to keep using his abilities so that he can reduce his restraint. This would be difficult to manage without a larger energy pool and people would likely not be fond of needing to drop a flow mod in just to be effective.

yes and no. he needs a high energy pool because he needs elude as a set+forget and to spam daggers. his lull is good, but not great. definitely not good enough to spam unless you're defending a spot, but then you've already got 1+3 going, so why bother. still doesn't answer the main question though: why 300? why not 225 or so, like atlas, gara, nezha, etc. 

 

37 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

Oh god please do not nerf him

this is more of a "why do casters have so little energy if baruuk/garuda have so much?" than a "nerf the boring monk that has too much energy for a lackluster kit", if that makes you feel better

[DeMonkey]

Just now, MickThejaguar said:

What do you mean? Didn't you see the amazing Cloudwalker augment that totally makes Cloudwalker a worthwhile ability.

I mean his actual kit, augments and bug fixes not included.

But yeah, that Cloudwalker augment... I own everything Wukong, including about 10 noggles, but I can't even bring myself to get that augment. 

51 minutes ago, Aldain said:

On topic, I just figured out why Baruuk has more energy than most frames, his abilities have less of a direct impact when used until his restraint is reduced to zero, as a result he NEEDS the energy to keep using his abilities so that he can reduce his restraint. This would be difficult to manage without a larger energy pool and people would likely not be fond of needing to drop a flow mod in just to be effective.

It might be hard, but on the other hand we have so many forms of energy gain nowadays that I don't see that being an issue, you know?

That's what Zenurik, consumables and even other frames are for. Not every frame needs to be 100% self sustaining, else it defeats the point of this being a co-op game (not that it is anymore anyway).

Maybe one day we'll get energy 2.0 or something and this'll change.

[Xzorn]

Garuda's eHP is her Energy. If you ask me she should have 300, not 270 but I guess they're leaving room for her Prime.

DE hasn't really had an accurate record of Energy needs for frames. I could look way back to Titania's release where I posted that she needed more energy to keep up with all the things her kit has to do in order to keep her from just being a press 4 and forget frame and needed Vacuum. Fast forward to over 2 years later and poof she got both.

Saryn never needed 300 Energy but she has it anyways and unlike Baruuk she's not totally shut down from Zenurik but they have been going back and buffing Energy pools. Mag Prime got one a while back. Other frames got Energy buffs as band-aids to nerfs they endured like Chroma.

Wukong will prolly get an energy buff when his other abilities are worth casting =P

[MasterBurik]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

On topic, I just figured out why Baruuk has more energy than most frames, his abilities have less of a direct impact when used until his restraint is reduced to zero, as a result he NEEDS the energy to keep using his abilities so that he can reduce his restraint. This would be difficult to manage without a larger energy pool and people would likely not be fond of needing to drop a flow mod in just to be effective.

It depends on how you utilize his 4. I stick with short bursts for crowd clearing, so I don't usually need to erode much restraint after the initial build-up. As such, I can usually rely on Orbs for all my energy needs. If I ever get an Arcane Energize, it'll just provide me with extra chances to use my abilities.

Its a nice trait to have, when the Energy Leeches start to spawn in droves.

[Aldain]

3 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Maybe one day we'll get energy 2.0 or something and this'll change

Honestly Zenurik makes every other form of energy generation such a joke its kinda sad.

I miss the days of Energy Siphon being relevant in some way, nowadays its just Zen+4=win.

[HC217]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I swear to God you guys'll get everything nerfed for no reason.. high energy pools were never said to be exclusive to primes.. I think it's great that he has high energy, because of his draining 1, and high usage of his 2 and 3..

leave him alone god damnit

....... what?

14 hours ago, HC217 said:

300's a lot, as in top of the charts with primed casters like volt and saryn, and going by the last few frames it seems like a lot of them are getting a large energy pool for no discernible reason. why does garuda have 270 base when she's got an energy restore baked into her kit? if we're giving insane energy pools to beeftanks then why can't wukong, valkyr, inaros all have 300 energy too? not asking for nerfs, just trying to understand why energy capacity seems to be on the rise in newer frames while older frames get the shaft

this isn't a prime/nonprimed thing. it's a caster/noncaster, new/old frames thing. baruuk's not a caster, he's an exalted melee frame, meant to tank hits and cc mobs. for the sake of brevity let's say his kit's great, no problems. but if you can spam baruuk's abilities with no modding, there might be a problem in his design, since obviously every other frame (other than nidus/garuda who have the restores baked into their kits) could use efficiency to spam abilities. the issue is these days there's so much energy restore with zenurik, energize, etc. available i don't see why he also needs 300 base energy, unless DE meant for him to be a mindless set+forget frame. then it makes perfect sense that de doesnt want you to have to ever worry about energy.

[Stygie]

Baruuk. 

Channledd ability that can be intergrate to survivability.

3 needs to be recast often to be efffect and costs a lot.

He is ment ot keeo all hai abikities up constanly thats why the large enrgy pool

 

Garuda

For all means and purposes yiu should be spaming that ult when you can becuase it is free slash damage also he kit revolves are energy an health so a higher energy pool is neccessary.

 

Valkyr 

Extremely powerful ult that is limited by energy pool. You don't spam and Valkyr. Wukong is in the same vein.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Lucian_Adrion

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

1 hour ago, HC217 said:

....... what?

this isn't a prime/nonprimed thing. it's a caster/noncaster, new/old frames thing. baruuk's not a caster, he's an exalted melee frame, meant to tank hits and cc mobs. for the sake of brevity let's say his kit's great, no problems. but if you can spam baruuk's abilities with no modding, there might be a problem in his design, since obviously every other frame (other than nidus/garuda who have the restores baked into their kits) could use efficiency to spam abilities. the issue is these days there's so much energy restore with zenurik, energize, etc. available i don't see why he also needs 300 base energy, unless DE meant for him to be a mindless set+forget frame. then it makes perfect sense that de doesnt want you to have to ever worry about energy.

Tanking isn’t restricted to the health pool, y’know?

Quick Thinking + Pain Threshold (optional) + Primed Flow + Umbral Fiber + Umbral Intensify (up to 300% Power Strength) + Arcane Energize + Arcane Guardian and he’ll face tank the universe.

Caster Frames aren’t strictly tied to energy pool values or cast costs.

Correlation != Causation.

[HC217]

2 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said:

Baruuk. 

Channledd ability that can be intergrate to survivability.

3 needs to be recast often to be efffect and costs a lot.

He is ment ot keeo all hai abikities up constanly thats why the large enrgy pool

 

Garuda

For all means and purposes yiu should be spaming that ult when you can becuase it is free slash damage also he kit revolves are energy an health so a higher energy pool is neccessary.

 

Valkyr 

Extremely powerful ult that is limited by energy pool. You don't spam and Valkyr. Wukong is in the same vein.

yeah, okay, but zenurik/energize exists so energy isn't scarce. capacity nowadays is more to do with what can you do in a single engagement than reserves. so baruuk having 100% uptime on 1 and 3 is a bit much when he'll always have full energy. 

yeah great, spam her ult. then press 3 a few times and do it again, next to your 2. then you never die bc quick thinking+ spam 3. 

yup, you don't spam on valkyr or wukong. because they don't have enough energy to spam, and are designed with weak abilities apart from 4 or 2. they're good foils for baruuk because he also has bland abilities, but he also has the energy to waste on em, and even has an exalted that doesn't use energy. so he's never starved for energy during a fight like val/wu.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Tanking isn’t restricted to the health pool, y’know?

Quick Thinking + Pain Threshold (optional) + Primed Flow + Umbral Fiber + Umbral Intensify (up to 300% Power Strength) + Arcane Energize + Arcane Guardian and he’ll face tank the universe.

Caster Frames aren’t strictly tied to energy pool values or cast costs.

Correlation != Causation.

right but the point is energy regen is a joke lately with energize and zenurik, so why are all the new frames coming with high energy pools when older frames came with 150 base. the whole issue to me is energy reserves seem arbitrary now. so the point remains, why can't classic beeftanks like wukong, atlas, valkyr, etc. all have the same energy pool along with their kit's DR if baruuk can too?

 

 

[DeMonkey]

5 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said:

Wukong is in the same vein.

Assuming I'm reading your post right (because that spelling is obnoxious), you're wrong. 

Wukong is in this vein.

5 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said:

Baruuk. 

Channledd ability that can be intergrate to survivability.

3 needs to be recast often to be efffect and costs a lot.

He is ment ot keeo all hai abikities up constanly thats why the large enrgy pool

^

Right there. Your justification for why Baruuk deserves such a high energy pool applies exactly to Wukong, frankly even more so to him.

Channelled abilities that can be integral to survival, Wukong has 2 of them given you can use Primal Fury defensively via blocking and minor CC. Baruuk only has a single energy draining channelled ability.

Both of Wukong's together cost 8 energy per second, not including the energy drain on death, Baruuk's only costs 2.5 energy per second, just over a quarter of Wukong's cost.

Both Wukong's #1 and #3 need to be spammed to death in order to be remotely effective, more so than Baruuk due to the absolute uselessness of his abilities.

Tah dah, Wukong is more energy hungry than Baruuk, where's his energy buff?

[MasterBurik]

16 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Tah dah, Wukong is more energy hungry than Baruuk, where's his energy buff?

Where all the rest of his buffs are:

[DeMonkey]

55 minutes ago, MasterBurik said:

Where all the rest of his buffs are:

I suspect I know what happened to that van...

[MasterBurik]

@DeMonkey

That's the cover story. The truth is that what was inside had such unspeakable power, that it needed to be hidden away for further study.

Spoiler

 

I'm sure, very soon, DE will tell us that they have top men working on it.

Edited January 12, 2019 by MasterBurik

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I'd imagine it's due to how frequently you'd expect him to be casting his 3 along with his 1 being a drain ability.  Though i've been learning that not all casters need a huge pool.  Or to put it differently.  Managing with a smaller energy pool is often better.  Really only big pools really need to exist for certain frames.  Or frames that plan to be a QT tank.

[DeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

What

Well, if you're going to make effective use of Cloudwalker and subsequently perform finishers on a lot of enemies, you need to spam it.

The stun duration from it lasts just long enough to finish one enemy, further enemies require further casts, thus spam.

Iron Jab is similar, it's a garbage ability, however you can use it "effectively" to punt enemies off a ledge.

But given it's single target and can miss, you'd have to spam it for it to be "effective".

Therefore, both these abilities need to be spammed to have any sort of use on a larger scale.

Edited January 13, 2019 by DeMonkey