Sustainable Content (a response to DE Steve)

[swordkirby4]

This is a response to DE Steve's Twitter Post (I know that I'm late to this subject matter but better late then never I guess)

 

So this isn't going be a tell the developer that we need endgame content and be done with it, instead i am going to list out both Objective and Subjective Content ideas that can work in the current state of Warframe.

Objective Content Ideas - These are things that I and many others would like to see in the game hopefully before Tennocon 2019. (Note most of this content is things that were shown to us at last years Tennocon and things that are more needed like reamps or fixes to old content)

• Railjack - One of the most ambitious updates that can be and I"m getting this one out of the way first due to that this should be a given at this point. To be short and sweet about it, Railjack is that one update that needs to come before Tennocon 2019.
• The New War - Another one of those givens that i don't have to go in detail but new quest
• Orb boss fight rewards and rewards for killing the Orbs (except for the small one of course) - To be blunt, rewards for killing these new enemies are lack luster and mediocre, however, to not be hypocritical, I suggest that the boss fights should have new arcanes in the drop table of the profit-taker orb. The other problem that I have is with the orb enemies, except for the boss due to that I already suggested reward changes to that one, rewards. I say this because they are annoying to fight and they don't drop anything (A.K.A they don't have meaningful rewards for killing them). So what i would do to fix this solution is to give them a guaranteed drop of one of the three main toroids, a specific kind if you'er in the place on where they drop or a completely random one (excluding the boss drop one) in any other location, and the chance of the 3 new new resources that was introduced in the Profit-Taker missions ( when you get to old mate). I an m stating this due to that the orb enemies don't have a real reason to kill them. I would expect this probably late January early February.
• Armor/ Scaling rework - This is one thing that most people ask for due to the broken scaling of armor. Would want this fixed during the first few months of the year.
• General Fixes and reamps to other modes in Warframe - Now these I will go through quickly due to that I don't want this to be as long as Fortuna hotfix 24.2.7's patch notes. These things include but not limited to Archwing, SO and ESO, and arbitration.   

Subjective Content Ideas - These are things that I myself think that they can be added to the game. There's also an idea that was stemmed by the kingpin system that the more i thought into it the more invested i was to actually create this topic and give my two sense to this topic. These would be things that would be slated for late 2019. (these are my opinions and should not be take as fact and this is merely my ideas that i would like to see implemented into the game)

• Kingpin System (DE's idea and my add-ons that would make it sustainable) - going straight into another prominent thing that people asked questions about is the kingpin system. For those who are new to the game and don't watch the dev streams, there was a system that was discussed in an ancient dev stream that was basically the nemesis system from Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor/ War (if you played those games you know what I'm about to talk about). Basically it would generate a "captain" that would have a class, such as archer, defender, ect., a subclass, such as beast-master or trickster, weaknesses, and rarity (meaning the type of loot that they can drop). 

 I'm going to add more later but right now I'm going to get off. Feel free to comment anything that you would like to be added or focused on the game. Working on a power point to basically show all the add-ons and the details for it, almost done with the captain part of the add-ons (on slide 10 currently). Hopefully will be done with it before the end of this week.

Edited January 14, 2019 by swordkirby4
explanation

[-Sentient-]

Don't forget the old and dusty warframes

These need a rework: Vauban,Wukong,Atlas,Zephyr.

something I saw that disappointed me a bit was when DE Pablo mocked us with the Vauban rework and said he will do it in the next year.

 

[AndouRaiton]

You also forgot Melee 3.0

[Shadow-Spawn]

I would definitely mention some great epic raids done absolute perfectly in a Warframe setting 😉

[LascarCapable]

Moving to general feedback.

[XenMaster]

Companions 2.0

 

Overhaul of sentinels and pets.

 

My own example is that their stats are scaled with enemy level.

 

So, they can actually survive from getting oneshot, deal good decent damage and not one hitting low level because scale with enemy level.

[Stonehenge]

Thanks for the effort OP.

Regarding "subjective" ideas, Nemesis system was indeed a very, very cool idea. I'd love personnal ennemies, i miss the good old times when the GR3 were a real threat to me. (i just love those guys). Apparently they are working on pvp Stalker mode for now, i guess they can't build those 2 modes at the same time, given the huge amount of balance work that has to be done for both.

Just imagine if you Nemesis could be able to abord your LISET. Haha. Close quarter fight. OOoh how i d love that.

Imo, a complete rework of Invasion system could be cool also. More specifics and dynamic maps, (the ship/asteroid/station in instable, starts to shake or roll and reverse up and down, gravity changes, boarding torpedos etc.. yeah i know i ask a lot.XD on this one)

One thing i always wanted and i think this could be easy and fun to get is a random ambush system. You go on regular mission on any spaceship, (Grineer galion for example) and sudddenly all doors in current area are locked, and bam, Nightwatch drop troop teleport. Guns everywhere, you just have to react quickly.

 

[swordkirby4]

First of all thank you for all the replies and feed back it means so much to me. Now to state some things 

12 hours ago, -Sentient- said:

Don't forget the old and dusty warframes

These need a rework: Vauban,Wukong,Atlas,Zephyr. 

I did forget about the reworks to warframes that are old and dusty, however since i don't play Vauban, Wukong, Atlas, and Zephyr I'm going to ask "how would you do to rework them so they can be used more often by players." (this is open to anyone so feel free to state you're opinion)

12 hours ago, AndouRaiton said:

You also forgot Melee 3.0

I felt like this was a given too and was debating with myself to add it in and I ultimately left it out due to the nature of the multi-part update that was Melee 3.0. However yes some of the parts of melee 3.0 should come this year.

9 hours ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

I would definitely mention some great epic raids done absolute perfectly in a Warframe setting 😉

I was going to mention raids inside the subjective content ideas and i also wanted it to tie up with the Nemesis/ Kingpin System while also having regular raids thrown in to have more endgame potential within the current state of Warframe. Now imagine the raid with a kingpin/ nemesis enemy it would be interesting for the random combinations that you can have with the raid.

7 hours ago, XenMaster said:

Companions 2.0

Overhaul of sentinels and pets.

My own example is that their stats are scaled with enemy level.

So, they can actually survive from getting oneshot, deal good decent damage and not one hitting low level because scale with enemy level.

To be honest I'm kind of mixed with this, having companion stats scaled is nice but it depends on scaling you are referring to. Lets for say you are in a survival mission and the starting level is 45 and you bring a kavat, does that kavat scale with the starting level or does it scale based of the highest level enemy that spawned in the survival.

7 hours ago, Stonehenge said:

Thanks for the effort OP.

Regarding "subjective" ideas, Nemesis system was indeed a very, very cool idea. I'd love personnal ennemies, i miss the good old times when the GR3 were a real threat to me. (i just love those guys). Apparently they are working on pvp Stalker mode for now, i guess they can't build those 2 modes at the same time, given the huge amount of balance work that has to be done for both.

Just imagine if you Nemesis could be able to abord your LISET. Haha. Close quarter fight. OOoh how i d love that.

Imo, a complete rework of Invasion system could be cool also. More specifics and dynamic maps, (the ship/asteroid/station in instable, starts to shake or roll and reverse up and down, gravity changes, boarding torpedos etc.. yeah i know i ask a lot.XD on this one)

One thing i always wanted and i think this could be easy and fun to get is a random ambush system. You go on regular mission on any spaceship, (Grineer galion for example) and sudddenly all doors in current area are locked, and bam, Nightwatch drop troop teleport. Guns everywhere, you just have to react quickly.

First, with this reply, thank you. Second is that I honestly want both systems in the game due to the variety that both systems have. Thirdly, I like the idea that you have with reworked invasion system I think that it would be pretty cool in my opinion. Fourth is that, no joke, I thought up a ambush system in place for the kingpin system that a random nemesis target would appear in the area, stopping either life support, the mobile defense target, ect., and you would have to deal with them before you can proceed kind of like the way sentients do during the mobile defense mission on Lua. Fifth is now I want to see Nemesis targets board you're liset. I thought up the rewards for both killing and capturing the nemesis target, the way legendary targets would be, full scale battles between 8 clan-mates and the sector's overseer  (like the overlord of a fort in shadow of War) and there warship (which is there fort essentially), how they can betray you, and how they can brake your arcanes and modular weapons so that they can have a guarantee chance for that arcane back (leveled up to the amount that the arcane had plus another one, or a more powerful version of the chamber for kitguns or the strike/ grip of the Zaws. I never thought about the nemesis target boarding the liset so thank you on that.

Also thank you to all that replied. I love Warframe and I made this topic in order to make Warframe better. Like I said before leave a comment if you have thoughts on what can be added for 2019.

[Xzorn]

How come the Topic title says Sustainable Content but there's no mention of it in the post?

Things like PoE / Fortuna, Quests, ect aren't sustainable content. Least not for DE's development cycles. To be sustainable the player would need a reason to continue to go back for a long or possible indefinite time period. This is why despite it's age Survival remains the most played mission type or was last we got stats on that sorta thing.

Scaling is the key to sustaining content in pretty much every RPG-style game. You get bigger and enemies get bigger. It also happens to work out well as a counter to Power Creep which in Warframe is an inevitable fact. The means of which the game scales however is just as important as the scaling itself. Old JRPGs and such making the same enemy a different color for instance is an example of a cheap and uninteresting method.

Unfortunately Warframe is build on a flawed foundation. That core foundation is Damage 2.0. This involves Damage types, status effects, armor scaling, ability effects on armor, enemy weak points, Enemy damage output... a lot of stuff. Until the foundation of Warframe is stable; nothing can be sustainable because nothing is properly rewarding since nothing can be made to fit a proper difficulty setting.

Ideally the only difference between fighting a boss at lvl 40 and the same boss at lvl 100 is the boss now has new and more dangerous special attacks or mechanics. The time to kill that boss should remain fairly static from a progression perspective because as mentioned. We get stronger. A year from now that same boss at lvl 150 would again have even more dangerous special attacks yet remain similar in kill time. This is what avoids things like cleverly hidden invulnerability periods.

My point is Warframe can't have anything that sustainable for the general community because they can't properly challenge the community and in response they also can't reward the community for the extra effort or time they put into that difficult. Warframe needs a better foundation. It's not a coincidence they're pretty much making mini-game modes though Operators and Arch-wings while avoiding the Core game.  Put simply, we need Damage 3.0 if anything is to work well in the future.

[(XBOX)Pugs Xbox]

6 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Things like PoE / Fortuna, Quests, ect aren't sustainable content.

I would have to respectfully disagree. There's a lot to do there. However I don't want DE to focus on open worlds. I made a thread about this a few hours ago and got barraged.

[Xzorn]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Pugs Xbox said:

I would have to respectfully disagree. There's a lot to do there. However I don't want DE to focus on open worlds. I made a thread about this a few hours ago and got barraged.

 

It took DE 8 months to develop Fortuna and I finished in a week.

If they hadn't locked the 2nd Rep I would have finished it at the same time. 10 days for 8 months. That's not sustainable content.

Now DE has tools to make both Fortuna and PoE last much longer but they likely won't make use of them. Instead they'll add 2 more reskin bosses players will have to kill 200+ times then they'll have an event to bring players back. Maybe a new item / frame and then it will be truly dead.

They use rewards to carrot players back to content the content itself is not sustaining.

[(XBOX)Pugs Xbox]

Just now, Xzorn said:

 

It took DE 8 months to develop Fortuna and I finished in a week.

If they hadn't locked the 2nd Rep I would have finished it at the same time. 10 days for 8 months. That's not sustainable content.

Now DE has tools to make both Fortuna and PoE last much longer but they likely won't make use of them. Instead they'll add 2 more reskin bosses players will have to kill 200+ times then they'll have an event to bring players back. Maybe a new item / frame and then it will be truly dead.

They use rewards to carrot players back to content the content itself is not sustaining.

Listen. Like I said I made a thread about this earlier. Not a Fortuna fanboy but seriously, you might be playing too much.

[Xzorn]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Pugs Xbox said:

Listen. Like I said I made a thread about this earlier. Not a Fortuna fanboy but seriously, you might be playing too much.

 

1 week for me, 1 month for others;  it's still not 8 months so it's still not sustaining content.

Unless DE can create content that keeps players busy until they finish more content. it will never be sustaining content.

[-Sentient-]

Just now, Xzorn said:

 

1 week for me, 1 month for others;  it's still not 8 months so it's still not sustaining content.

Unless DE can create content that keeps players busy until they finish more content. it will never be sustaining content.

You need to be addicted to finish fortuna in 1 week

DE Aren't cyborgs that work every day at every moment.

[Xzorn]

27 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

You need to be addicted to finish fortuna in 1 week

DE Aren't cyborgs that work every day at every moment.

 

I came back from a 7 month break specifically to play Fortuna.

I've been playing this game almost 6 years off and on. It's possible I just know how to farm well.

DE doesn't really change their formula often. Once you do something you know how it's going to be the next time and the next. Fortuna has almost identical progression as PoE except it's even easier. Buy a booster or something cuz I didn't even play Fortuna much thanks to Ticker.

All this content is for new players. Maybe that's why it looks like it should take longer. See how long it takes when you already own everything else. This isn't about how much I play. It's about DE's outlook on Development, walking uphill constantly instead of letting some mechanics of the game play into themselves and allow the systems in place to do part of the work for them.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Xzorn

[Volinus7]

Sustainable contents are depth(with balance) and enough permutation(significant variations, not some procedurally generated bs) which you will never find in a game that trivializes itself for years like Warframe.