Bullet Deflecting.

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Bullet deflecting is great, but to make it realistic, you can't block every shot fired. There should be a %.

[MJ12]

Bullet deflecting is great, but to make it realistic, you can't block every shot fired. There should be a %.

"Realism" should take a back seat to fun. Also in Warframe Mag has the power to create magnetic fields strong enough to deflect bullets.

That would require her to be attached to a nuclear reactor about the size of Texas and would also exsanguinate (that is, remove the blood from) whatever you slapped that power onto... And everything with hemoglobin within about a mile.

To teleport even a single particle requires a hell of a lot of energy. Loki and Ash can teleport much more than a single subatomic particle, and they don't run on Texas-size reactors.

Etc etc. Warframe is a pretty unrealistic game, I don't think "can block bullets" would make it any worse.

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Etc etc. Warframe is a pretty unrealistic game, I don't think "can block bullets" would make it any worse.

I never stated being able to block bullets was unrealistic, just the part of blocking every single bullet fired. Especially when there are a bunch of grinners shooting at you.

[MJ12]

I never stated being able to block bullets was unrealistic, just the part of blocking every single bullet fired. Especially when there are a bunch of grinners shooting at you.

Is it more unrealistic than Mag not exsanguinating everyone within a mile when she uses any of her powers?

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Is it more unrealistic than Mag not exsanguinating everyone within a mile when she uses any of her powers?

That's a different topic you're talking about an unlockable skill for a specific warframe, not one for every warframe. Also, blocking every single bullet would make the game too easy. Yes it does seem more unrealistic, since you'd need to swing at ridiculously quick speeds. Bullet deflecting would be something like wall running, not a warframe power.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Mikovsky

[MJ12]

That's a different topic you're talking about an unlockable skill for a specific warframe, not one for every warframe. Also, blocking every single bullet would make the game too easy. Yes it does seem more unrealistic, since you'd need to swing at ridiculously quick speeds. Bullet deflecting would be something like wall running, not a warframe power.

Blocking every single bullet infinitely would make the game too easy, yes. Except every suggestion here is 'have it limited by stamina' or 'only while closing in' and so on.

But the point still is 'Warframe is extremely unrealistic and arguments based on realism need to recognize this fact'.

[Eidolon_Slayer]

But the point still is 'Warframe is extremely unrealistic and arguments based on realism need to recognize this fact'.

I don't really care.

[Scyfle]

Blocking every bullet fired would make things easier than they should be.

I'll go with percentage blocking.

[MJ12]

Blocking every bullet fired would make things easier than they should be.

I'll go with percentage blocking.

Will it make heavily using melee easier than hiding behind chest-high walls and shooting things yes/no?

If not, it doesn't 'make things easier than they should be'.

[Ronyn]

This addition would at least fix #3 if it provided significant protection and didn't drain Stamina that fast. Also, it doesn't need a new key. Just change how sprinting and melee work. "Hold Melee while Sprinting: Block bullets. Press Melee while coming out of defensive stance to instantly unleash a charge attack." See? Skill based combo gameplay and no UI bloat.

I like the general direction youre going here but would we loose the sprinting charge attack?

i still see no use for deflection.

Deflecting bullets is one way to stop them from shooting you.

By stoping them from shooting you it allows you to close the distance having taken less damage.

The point is that you prefer that people rely on another way to stop people from shooting you.

Either by shooting them or through evasion.

The point is, to say you see no use is ilogical. the use is clear.

You simply dont want it. Which is fine.

[Siilk]

Blocking every bullet fired would make things easier than they should be.

Not necessary with the stamina-limited blocking. But I agree, blocking must not be 100% efficient.

[Skorpychan]

I think it'd be pretty awesome to deflect bullets with melee swings, but you'd end up having a LOT more bullets flying around to balance it, and I'm not sure I want that.

[Zh40]

In Warframe, bullet chopping/melee blocking would seriously slow down the game's speed and progress on grineer levels with people just walking through hordes of grineer while holding their swords up expecting something to happen. If you give them the ability to use a charge attack directly after blocking, you'll only give the melee-only folks a superhuman boost in power vs grineer. And trust me, they will find a way to make it spammable and become nigh-invulnerable vs grineer. And guess what else? Bullet chopping won't work on infested or corpus (corpus use lasers, try chopping that) so the feature is hardly necessary.

I feel like this would slow the game down a lot. GunZ was fun.. for a while. but after 8 years of wall running and bullet chopping and all that move cancelling bullS#&$, I realized just how seriously broken the game really was.

What made bullet deflecting effective in gunz was the fact it protected everything but your feet for a solid five seconds, be it bullets or swords or daggers and whathaveyou, and then you could use a charge attack. Or just keep tapping the block button and not waste any time. Kstyle was built around using your sword and blocking almost simultaneously, with the melee cancelling into the block and vice versa, so you would be a bunny hopping death machine who could roll through people untouched. Bullet chopping didn't slow down your speed if you kept dashing or wall running, so you could close in on enemies quickly. This often made the use of guns ineffective against the person using this technique. So you had people abusing the ability to bullet block vs the nubs who didn't know any better or just couldn't.

I am against this wholly.

[RainDreamer]

I always thought we should have a block function. Blocking should slow you down, give no stam regen, and cost stam per block. It should be able to block attack at a 60 degree cone of you, cannot block explosives, cannot block shockwave, but can block some range attacks(perhaps there should be a stat for this! say using the wide Scindo to block more), all melee attacks, and be immune to stagger/knockdown from melee. That way it would be very wonderful against infested, and some what ok against the other enemies.

[FrankJaeger]

In Warframe, bullet chopping/melee blocking would seriously slow down the game's speed and progress on grineer levels with people just walking through hordes of grineer while holding their swords up expecting something to happen. If you give them the ability to use a charge attack directly after blocking, you'll only give the melee-only folks a superhuman boost in power vs grineer. And trust me, they will find a way to make it spammable and become nigh-invulnerable vs grineer. And guess what else? Bullet chopping won't work on infested or corpus (corpus use lasers, try chopping that) so the feature is hardly necessary.

I'm not saying its necessary; but if done correctly, I do not think it would break the game. It would not have to slow down the pace of the game. As it is, if a player wants to take their time, they can. You can manually peak around corners and hide behind cover, even if there is no specific cover system to do so with. And on Grineer levels this is sometimes necessary; in a large, open room with a dozen grineer (who can use cover) shooting at you from multiple angles, taking a more methodical approach is often necessary, especially if you are low level or solo. Even in Infected maps, its not always advisable to go balls-out charging from room to room. Possible, yes, but there is nothing that forces you to move quickly if you want to take it slower.

My point here is that it wouldn't slow down the game any more than it already is; there are ways to impliment this function while keeping it well paced. For example, it doesn't have to slow you to a crawl. We're supposed to be badass space ninja, what would stop us from moving, at the very least, at regular speed? If it drained stamina it would prevent it from being a spammable or constant technique, and if you balance how quickly it drains said stamina it wouldn't nearly 'break' Grineer levels or give an unfair advantage. It would just be one way (alongside cover, wallrunning, and special Warframe abilities) to defend yourself while still engaging the enemy.

I also said nothing about being able to immediately charge attack out of the defensive move. Maybe there is a slight delay between using the block/deflect and being able to use a charge attack. Not enough to negate your melee ability, just so that it couldn't be spammed. Besides, melee charging is already a mechanic that can be balanced one way or another.

I guess I'm not seeing how it would make you "nigh invulnerable" to anything with the way I proposed to do it. As for defending against the infected or corpus.. who knows. That's what this is - kicking around ideas.

So, how would we impliment this same block or deflection mechanic against the Corpus or Infected? Well, if its a % damage reduction to incoming attacks, maybe it would simply decrease the laser damage. Instead of just "bullet chopping" it was more like the Tenno charges the weapon with energy; the physical blade blocks or deflects bullets, the energy helps absorb/block lasers. basically, it would do the same thing, just reduce the damage from corpus as well as grineer weapons. infected? I don't see why it couldn't be used to block against a melee attack. Maybe you could make it a skill technique. There are a few threads talking about Ukemi/tech rolling, where if you hit a key at the right time when being knocked back or knocked over, you could quickly roll to your feet. Maybe if you time the deflect/block with an incoming melee hit, you'd take reduced damage, or you'd negate a stagger/knockback effect from smaller enemies. Each block still drains an amount of stamina so it can't be spammed.

But then what about if you're being swarmed? Does the skill/animation 'refresh' itself for each attack if you can time it right and have enough stamina? I don't know.

Just kicking around ideas.

[MJ12]

I like the general direction youre going here but would we loose the sprinting charge attack?

I figure you'd get another special move, equivalent to the sprinting charged attack, if you hit the melee button at the right time when coming out of block.

The idea was entirely inspired by Metal Gear Rising, where your defensive bullet-deflection mode is your sprint.

Alternatively you could make it so that sprinting makes you deflect bullets fired in a roughly 90-120 degree arc in front of you at the cost of draining more stamina if actively blocking attacks.

Edited February 17, 2013 by MJ12

[Nocturni]

I don't get how it'd make the game slower; you'd essentially be trading stamina for shields (though blocking should use up a considerable amount of stamina), and shields take a lot longer to regenerate than stamina.

If anything, it'd make the game faster.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Nocturni

[lNogardl]

Sorry about my lack of posts, being the OP and all, i've been rather busy.

I have to thank all the players who have been defending my idea with some amazing suggestions! This idea is taking the right path in my opinion, and it wouldn't ruin the game at all since it is your choice if you would use it or not, and on open maps such as the grineer ones it would help to deflect some bullets avoiding serious damage when trying to recover on cover and while attacking.

My initial idea was that bullet deflecting would not deflect 100% of the bullets, that would be way too easy and THAT would ruin the "fun" and challenge that the game imposes. Stamina drainage would a good idea instead of energy drainage, for me this would be an awesome feature since you're a space ninja.

Keeps those thoughts comming!

[BrotherO4]

......when will they add the skill to hold your sword.

i would like for them to give us the option to put all our weapons away and another option to have a sword out..

plus a combo system lol, and i agree with the second guy idea with block bullets

[neKroMancer]

I have been following this post for a while. The idea of using blade to deflect bullet isn't exactly new in this forum but it's still a good idea.

Frank's idea and concept is cool. It'll create more diverse builds among players. Stamina is almost useless ATM. Bullet deflecting which consume stamina is a great idea to make this stat more useful.

First, which weapon should be able to deflect bullet?

I see two answers.

1. only small melee weapons that can slash fast enough are capable of deflecting bullet.

2. A melee attack speed threshold. All weapons can deflect bullet if one can swing it fast enough.

How much stamina will this move drain? This is a practical question since both sprinting and deflecting share same resource. Doing both should drain one's stamina doubly fast. Time to find some max stamina mod.

How much damage should this move reduce? Flat percentage or weapon speed dependent? Flat percentage is easy to implement but attack speed dependent route will create more depth in the game. Will the damage reduction be capped?

My2cent in this subject. I like it, as long as it's well balanced feature.

[BrotherO4]

I have been following this post for a while. The idea of using blade to deflect bullet isn't exactly new in this forum but it's still a good idea.

Frank's idea and concept is cool. It'll create more diverse builds among players. Stamina is almost useless ATM. Bullet deflecting which consume stamina is a great idea to make this stat more useful.

First, which weapon should be able to deflect bullet?

I see two answers.

1. only small melee weapons that can slash fast enough are capable of deflecting bullet.

2. A melee attack speed threshold. All weapons can deflect bullet if one can swing it fast enough.

How much stamina will this move drain? This is a practical question since both sprinting and deflecting share same resource. Doing both should drain one's stamina doubly fast. Time to find some max stamina mod.

How much damage should this move reduce? Flat percentage or weapon speed dependent? Flat percentage is easy to implement but attack speed dependent route will create more depth in the game. Will the damage reduction be capped?

My2cent in this subject. I like it, as long as it's well balanced feature.

the system could use the weapon speed to decide how many or the % the weapon will have to block the bullets.

or maybe create a new stat for it...since a big axe is not fast but its pretty big in size.

you bring good Qs that must be answer.

for me I'm up for anything that would let me make a pure melee class

[Lagniprimatte]

I wish this game haad K-style so badly I am trained so hard that I see the walls now and think ok now time to wallclimb.... wait this is warframe... aw...

I know kstyle would not fit but i honestly want a block maybe the ability to sslash bullets out of the air...

LOL that's so funny. Yes, I definitely want a bullet deflect.

[MJ12]

My initial idea was that bullet deflecting would not deflect 100% of the bullets, that would be way too easy and THAT would ruin the "fun" and challenge that the game imposes. Stamina drainage would a good idea instead of energy drainage, for me this would be an awesome feature since you're a space ninja.

I'd prefer 100% deflection across a narrow arc. Faster weapons would have wider arcs. So, say, the Scindo and Fragor can only block a 15 degree cone in front of you but if you take a dagger or some other fast weapon you can get as much as 60-75 degrees. So it's 'skill-based' versus 'chance-based' (the skill being figuring out where to orient your view so that you take the least damage).

[lNogardl]

Bumpiddy bump.

[-Basic-]

+1, would be pretty damn cool