Conclave Skins for Plat?

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

So I took a look at Teshin's inventory to see if grinding Conclave was at all worthwhile. To my surprise, he sells beautiful skins for several of my favorite weapons. Sadly though, they require max standing to purchase. After trying to commit myself to getting these skins, it became painfully apparent that this was not worth the trouble.

The Conclave is basically dead. Very rarely can you get more than 3 people in a match, and 70% of the time these people are die-hard Conclave players that only use _(read:spam) the most "meta" builds. The other 30% of the time its people who just discovered the game, only to quit out of frustration. Its really a sad sight to see. So as of now, I too have abandoned Conclave and any hopes to get those lovely skins.

Of course if those skins were for sale at 20 platinum a piece (or maybe even a nice bundle value), I'd happily buy them.

Edited January 15, 2019 by (XB1)alchemPyro

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

So much this. I will die before I grind Conclave

[Stormdragon]

That would achieve nothing but undermine the existence of conclave since many players give it a first try to get the skins and some of them stay after finding that they can enjoy it.

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

11 hours ago, Stormdragon said:

That would achieve nothing but undermine the existence of conclave since many players give it a first try to get the skins and some of them stay after finding that they can enjoy it.

So you're saying that these cosmetics should be locked behind a grind-wall purely to sustain an already dying aspect of the game? That is a really weak argument.

Conclave is fundamentally broken. Only a minute percentage of the community plays it; and why would they? There are already tons of free-to-play PvP games with mechanics much better than Conclave's. Warframe itself doesn't event market its PvP; Conclave is almost literally shoved into a corner and forgotten. Keeping something locked away just to appease and half-heartedly promote a niche minority group is a horrible means of maintaining a game.

[Stormdragon]

1 hour ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

So you're saying that these cosmetics should be locked behind a grind-wall purely to sustain an already dying aspect of the game?

So you're saying that rewards that don't affect gameplay in any way but exist with the main purpose of getting people to play conclave should be available for plat so there is one less reason for a potential conclave player to even give the mode a try in the first place.

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That is a really weak argument.

For players like you who doesn't care about the mode and doesn't want to play it to get its rewards, sure.

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Conclave is fundamentally broken.

Care to elaborate? I'm kind of curious of what misinformed argument thrown around by plenty of people who hasn't ever set foot in pvp would you pick to back up such statement and how easily it can be shot down.

1 hour ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

Only a minute percentage of the community plays it; and why would they? There are already tons of free-to-play PvP games with mechanics much better than Conclave's.

For fun? The same reason why we are both playing warframe in the first place. There are already plenty of other PvE games, yet you choose to be here just like there are lots of other pvp games but players like me enjoy the gameplay of warframe's conclave. I respect the fact that you don't like the content i enjoy and won't try to change that (let alone ask you to go play something else), and that's in the same way that you don't get to dictate what is a game with mechanics that I (or other players) will enjoy.

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Warframe itself doesn't event market its PvP; Conclave is almost literally shoved into a corner and forgotten. Keeping something locked away just to appease and half-heartedly promote a niche minority group is a horrible means of maintaining a game.

I agree with there being better ways to advertise conclave, but unless DE decides to improve and advertise it again, then there's nothing else to fulfill such purpose.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Stormdragon
Typos

[Refticus]

no; you would be devaluing the time conclave players put into the gamemode. putting them on the market console would just be spitting in the face to the people who have grinded the conclave for months to get those skins. the only case where i'd support this would be if conclave is put on the chopping block, but you'd still have to reward those who did conclave for the skins somehow.

a better alternative would be allowing conclave players to trade the skins to other players, this means that those who play conclave get rewarded and people who dislike pvp can still get those skins. "but they'd be expensive!" i hear you say, and my answer to that would be the lunaro arena scene; worth 100-150p on warframe.market, costs 100,000 conclave standing, a good estimate for skin prices would be around 30-70p depending on the weapon.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Refticus

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

As a PVE player I would defend the PVP players and say no to this...this would undermine all their time fighting other players...To make it all the way to the top standing and then just allow it to be bought after the fact would be a betrayal...

I'm already sorta miffed over getting to the top standing in POE for the advanced Nostrum mining laser only for it to be obsolete for a easier mining tool that anyone can get starting off in Venus....So I wouldn't do that to Conclave players...

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

21 hours ago, Refticus said:

no; you would be devaluing the time conclave players put into the gamemode. putting them on the market console would just be spitting in the face to the people who have grinded the conclave for months to get those skins. the only case where i'd support this would be if conclave is put on the chopping block, but you'd still have to reward those who did conclave for the skins somehow.

a better alternative would be allowing conclave players to trade the skins to other players, this means that those who play conclave get rewarded and people who dislike pvp can still get those skins. "but they'd be expensive!" i hear you say, and my answer to that would be the lunaro arena scene; worth 100-150p on warframe.market, costs 100,000 conclave standing, a good estimate for skin prices would be around 30-70p depending on the weapon.

 

20 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

As a PVE player I would defend the PVP players and say no to this...this would undermine all their time fighting other players...To make it all the way to the top standing and then just allow it to be bought after the fact would be a betrayal...

I'm already sorta miffed over getting to the top standing in POE for the advanced Nostrum mining laser only for it to be obsolete for a easier mining tool that anyone can get starting off in Venus....So I wouldn't do that to Conclave players...

You both have a similar and fair argument: Putting them on the market devalues the time to get them. It is a fair and just point.

However the reality of games are cruel. When a feature is deemed obsolete or otherwise unused, it is either redesigned or removed. Seeing as how small the Conclave community is and how rarely it gets touched upon, the odds of Conclave getting a proper redesign is nill. Of course when something is removed, the rewards also take a hit. Conclave rewards would either have to be repurposed into a reward for later features, or simply added to the roster of purchasable cosmetics. The grim truth is that even rewards depreciate.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

3 hours ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

 

You both have a similar and fair argument: Putting them on the market devalues the time to get them. It is a fair and just point.

However the reality of games are cruel. When a feature is deemed obsolete or otherwise unused, it is either redesigned or removed. Seeing as how small the Conclave community is and how rarely it gets touched upon, the odds of Conclave getting a proper redesign is nill. Of course when something is removed, the rewards also take a hit. Conclave rewards would either have to be repurposed into a reward for later features, or simply added to the roster of purchasable cosmetics. The grim truth is that even rewards depreciate.

I disagree and we'll just have to wait and see what De does..but...The PVE players who participated in RAIDS were gifted a distinct sigil...only meant for them...When they closed the Raids by accident everyone received that sigil...De a couple days later removed it from everyone's inventory that did not participate...They honored the time and efforts of that small player base the best they could that set them apart from everyone now farming the terralysts..and I believe they will honor the small conclave player base as well by keeping the PVP cosmetics distinctly to a PVP merit of acquisition...if it should ever come to that...and rightfully so...

Edited January 17, 2019 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

3 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

I disagree and we'll just have to wait and see what De does..but...The PVE players who participated in RAIDS were gifted a distinct sigil...only meant for them...When they closed the Raids by accident everyone received that sigil...De a couple days later removed it from everyone's inventory that did not participate...They honored the time and efforts of that small player base the best they could that set them apart from everyone now farming the terralysts..and I believe they will honor the small conclave player base as well by keeping the PVP cosmetics distinctly to a PVP merit of acquisition...if it should ever come to that...and rightfully so...

Not to directly contest your argument, but this is not the first time DE made something commemorative only to reintroduce it later. The Rift Sigil, Braton Vandal, and Excalibur Proto skin are all examples of "limited exclusives" that return in some fashion. So far the only things DE has consciously withheld limited indefinitely are the Founder's Pack exclusive items (and we're still not totally hearing the end of that).

Point is DE is not one to just let things fizzle on into nothingness simply to give bragging rights. They can be a bit slow on the uptake, due to their limited manpower, but it is inevitable that they will either fix, overhaul, or remove Conclave due to its widespread unpopularity. And with that, the reward system will also dramatically change.

[----Legacy----]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

Not to directly contest your argument, but this is not the first time DE made something commemorative only to reintroduce it later. The Rift Sigil, Braton Vandal, and Excalibur Proto skin are all examples of "limited exclusives" that return in some fashion. So far the only things DE has consciously withheld limited indefinitely are the Founder's Pack exclusive items (and we're still not totally hearing the end of that).

They have also kept every event badge and trophy (except for plague star ones) exclusive to their original event until now and the same has been the case with Sekharas, cosmetics available only through trials. On the other hand, the rift sigil was a tactical alert reward never stated to be exclusive; Lato and Braton vandal are items with actual gameplay and progression value, so these shouldn't have been exclusive in the first place; Excal proto skin being a timed exclusive item in the market was a mistake in the same way as it is to have content gated behind a paywall, a timewall set in the past, and a dumb promise born out from despair (at least the proto skin mistake was fixed). I don't think it's too far fetched to think that if DE removes conclave, skins could simply become unobtainaible (at least until they give pvp another try) in their attempt to "honor the grind of those who got them" as they have already done with other stuff, Hema research being the prime example.

[MagPrime]

I support this. 

After reading arguements against, citing the devaluement of effort already put forth; that's subjective and only determined by the individual player. 

Many veterans have seen their time and effort decimated weeks, months and even years later.  That is simply the nature of a developing game; things are subject to change. 

Many argue that Warframe is abusing the beta tag due to the length of time it's been public and having a cash store but honestly, everyone signed the beta user agreement to even download the game. They knew what they agreed to (or should) and consented to the roller coaster ride that is Warframes growth. The arguement can be thrown around until everyone can repeat it in their sleep but they can't force DE to change it, we are stuck with the tag and it's consequences. 

Would having these items available for straight purchase harm the PvP community?  I'm sure it would, based in the comments here.  But maybe that needs to happen so DE can see just how badly the game mode needs attention. 

[DiabolusUrsus]

As someone who actually ground my way up to Typhoon and has acquired a decent number of the skins, I support this.

To hell with 'respecting my investment,' it was a horrible experience I wouldn't wish on anyone else.

Players who like Conclave and are inclined to play it will play regardless of the skins being exclusive to the mode.

[srlhama]

Surprised people still defend the conclave "experience". But maybe just selling it on the market will make some players offended but on the other hand is platinum for DE.

I would rather rework the whole thing and give some real game play tool something like Vitus essence from Arbitration to be traded for some goods, even ship decorations.

 

But I can't  just agree to leave all that amazing skins and conclave only stances locked there. It is to much good work and time investment that a lot of people never saw in game...

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

I think Conclave items should be locked to conclave and not be purchasable by plat. Despite that it is a PVP space it should still be treated like a faction for the sake of the rewards. It wouldn’t be fair if you could buy the sydanas from red veil if you played the opposing side. Or skip the grind and just buy them out right. Faction items are among the few items you can not purchase with plat.

One of the biggest issues I see in regards to the Conclave is that no one plays it, or so few play it it’s hard to get a match. I feel that there should be an NPC option in the PVP similar to how if you can’t find a group in the Index it makes one for you.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

One of the biggest issues I see in regards to the Conclave is that no one plays it, or so few play it it’s hard to get a match. I feel that there should be an NPC option in the PVP similar to how if you can’t find a group in the Index it makes one for you.

THIS

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

1 hour ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

One of the biggest issues I see in regards to the Conclave is that no one plays it, or so few play it it’s hard to get a match. I feel that there should be an NPC option in the PVP similar to how if you can’t find a group in the Index it makes one for you.

Oddly enough I actually suggested something like that a while ago. It got mixed replies, typically along the lines of "it'd be too easy to grind" or "The AI would be too hard to make". I'd personally love to see it happen, but then we're just trading one problem for another.

[----Legacy----]

1 hour ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

One of the biggest issues I see in regards to the Conclave is that no one plays it, or so few play it it’s hard to get a match. I feel that there should be an NPC option in the PVP similar to how if you can’t find a group in the Index it makes one for you.

The issue with that "fix" comes when you realize that at that point you're playing PvE, basically the same as rathuum on different maps and against tenno specters instead of grineer champions.

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

 

 

On ‎18‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 6:15 PM, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

Oddly enough I actually suggested something like that a while ago. It got mixed replies, typically along the lines of "it'd be too easy to grind" or "The AI would be too hard to make". I'd personally love to see it happen, but then we're just trading one problem for another.

There is no doubt in my mind that it would make it a lot easier to grind, but part of the thing is that with it as an option more players might be inclined to play conclave thus the servers would have more to pull from. If you want to play it you can even if its against and AI. As for the Ai being too hard to make... the code is pretty much already there for the Annihilation and team Annihilation all you would have to do is reuse the Index code or just the standard specter code from relays/any time you use them in a mission. Cephalon capture might pose an initial issue but again I don't expect it would be too hard to program. The only one I think might be difficult would be Lunaro due to it not having a fighting option, but if it was too difficult then it could be removed as an AI option. (though it is my personal favorite mode)

On ‎18‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 6:18 PM, ----Legacy---- said:

The issue with that "fix" comes when you realize that at that point you're playing PvE, basically the same as rathuum on different maps and against tenno specters instead of grineer champions.

This isn't entirely wrong, but it would allow players who desire a match to have one even if it isn't to the challenge level some might desire. It would also allow players to get the conclave skins they desire so much without implementing a trade system for skins or conclave exclusive skins as that might open up several cans of worms down the road.

It might also increase the amount of players in the already small conclave allowing those who genuinely like conclave to find a match regardless of its a PVP or a PVE(Ai) match. And outside of the already small people who use and enjoy the conclave the PVE play is far more enticing and desirable. I mean people were grinding the index left and right before Fortuna to get the credits, and people play Rathumm all the time to get that Kela fight.

A change to the settings to allow single players, friends, invite only etc. would make the conclave similar to other syndicates that allow for missions to be run solo or in teams. I suggest this as well because we all know people are going to drop the moment their team starts to lose because that just how some people are. Play solo then you place the PVE version, friends/invite PVP + PVE depending on player count. or PVP with open squads and it would feel much the same as it does now save queuing matches would (hopefully) be faster.

I never said the idea was perfect but it is still an idea that keeps people from buying or trading skins, as that could slip down the slopes of what cosmetic should and should not be trade able. All syndicates? Things that are bundle exclusive? Event cosmetics? Tenno gen? etc.

[(PSN)robi191291]

I enjoy conclave. 

My answer is yes, change the skins for good rewards of pve. But please put the skins in the new mode, the wolf of saturn not in the market, maintain the skins like reward in the game. 

 

[Refticus]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)robi191291 said:

I enjoy conclave. 

My answer is yes, change the skins for good rewards of pve. But please put the skins in the new mode, the wolf of saturn not in the market, maintain the skins like reward in the game. 

 

the current conclave rewards are good and fine as is; a couple of cosmetics and pvp exclusive mods is the most DE can get away with without PvE exclusive players getting too upset. you can live without the shiny skins and those that really want them can go through the grind and learning process to earn them, same as everybody else.

moving skins that were exclusive to the conclave mode and that people have spent weeks to get to a PvE mode will be a massive slap in the face to anyone who did the grind. "hey you know that thing you worked hard to get? well now every schmuck in the world has it for completing one 10 minute mission!"

Edited January 23, 2019 by Refticus

[(PSN)robi191291]

hace 12 horas, Refticus dijo:

the current conclave rewards are good and fine as is; a couple of cosmetics and pvp exclusive mods is the most DE can get away with without PvE exclusive players getting too upset. you can live without the shiny skins and those that really want them can go through the grind and learning process to earn them, same as everybody else.

moving skins that were exclusive to the conclave mode and that people have spent weeks to get to a PvE mode will be a massive slap in the face to anyone who did the grind. "hey you know that thing you worked hard to get? well now every schmuck in the world has it for completing one 10 minute mission!"

The rewards not are bad, but can be better. 

I don´t say exclusive, i want the same rewards that obtain in pve. Example, obtain focus lens, normal and superior, and maintain like exclusive eidolon in pve. 

Obtain rare resources, kuva, argon crystals, nitain, orokin cells.... 

Obtain blueprints of weapon like you obtain in the log-in. 

We don´t need exclusive things, we need that our time in conclave will be rewarded in the game. 

 

And not is a slap in the face that the people obtain the skins only putting plat. People grind days or months for these, and other enter, and in 1 min have the skin. 

It´s a thing that i don´t want, but i think that is a thing that need this game. The people feel that not are good reward, this is a good reward. And yes for me it´s fine that people grind for this things. 

No it´s the same 10 min in the void t4 with enemies level 200, that 10 mins in the earth with enemies level 5. 

Other hand you can give a compensation for these people. 

[VenomousValentine]

On 2019-01-14 at 9:40 AM, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

So I took a look at Teshin's inventory to see if grinding Conclave was at all worthwhile. To my surprise, he sells beautiful skins for several of my favorite weapons. Sadly though, they require max standing to purchase. After trying to commit myself to getting these skins, it became painfully apparent that this was not worth the trouble.

The Conclave is basically dead. Very rarely can you get more than 3 people in a match, and 70% of the time these people are die-hard Conclave players that only use _(read:spam) the most "meta" builds. The other 30% of the time its people who just discovered the game, only to quit out of frustration. Its really a sad sight to see. So as of now, I too have abandoned Conclave and any hopes to get those lovely skins.

Of course if those skins were for sale at 20 platinum a piece (or maybe even a nice bundle value), I'd happily buy them.

I feel like they should at least be tradeable