Soul punch idea

[(XBOX)SilverSurferGuy]

So for everyone who’s played or mains nekros, you know that his soul punch ability is lack luster. It’s simply a single target damage ability that loses all utility in higher levels unless you use his augment. I think soul punch could be much more. First off, remove insane the push back on it and replace it with a brief stun that has a set duration. Then when the enemy comes out of the stun, he’ll have a special status effect in which the enemy deals less damage. The damage reduction is affected by strength mods. As for his augment, it would make soul punch an area of effect if aimed at the ground. The blast radius would be increased with range mods. With this he’d feel more like the manipulator of souls like he’s meant to be rather than the farming frame the community knows him as. Plus he’d be a good de-buffer

[stp_007]

I wish it was like Oberons 1st ability Smite,

 

[VencirGan]

Sounds like something I could see them doing but for the memes why not make it drain their soul, making Nekros get the energy back for the cast with a tiny more added on. Then again if you made the augment AoE on top of that.. that'd be interesting lol.

[Amhiel]

I wouldn't mind a buff to this ability, I like Nekros and use him quite a bit. However, for a 1 ability it looks underwhelming at first but, have you really tried ragdolling the enemies into the ground (striking them from above) or into walls? The amount of damage they take is hilarious, not to mention you can one-shot pretty much any enemy by throwing them off cliffs regardless of the level. For a first ability it can do some pretty spicy things... 

[Andele3025]

Dont remove the space program of the soul, its great (and works like a stun already against enemies that matter), especially the 20% of the time that fall/collision damage works on enemies (for some reason it has a tendency to fail to apply on newer tilesets and if the soul doesnt disperse before impact)! However a small % true damage instead of impact damage on the initial hit would be nice.

[Gurpgork]

7 hours ago, (XB1)SilverSurferGuy said:

First off, remove insane the push back on it and replace it with a brief stun that has a set duration. 

That would honestly be one of the best changes the ability could get. 

7 hours ago, (XB1)SilverSurferGuy said:

Then when the enemy comes out of the stun, he’ll have a special status effect in which the enemy deals less damage.

I'm not really a fan of this, though. For one, this is exactly what a puncture proc does. For two, reducing the damage of one enemy is just not very useful. And you're especially not going to need it when Nekros already has access to three large damage reduction sources and reliable healing. 

Furthermore, abilities that kill one enemy are generally not considered especially useful in Warframe. 

6 hours ago, (PS4)STP_007 said:

I wish it was like Oberons 1st ability Smite,

 

An idea I really like is making it an inverse of Smite. Smite damages one enemy a lot, and then uses that to deal damage to other enemies in the area. I think Soul Punch should do the opposite: Steal a small percentage of health from 7 nearby enemies (or maybe even Shadows, if enemies aren't present) and add that damage to Soul Punch's direct hit. 

Honestly, setting him up to be the thematic opposite of Oberon is an idea I adore. 

5 hours ago, Amhiel said:

For a first ability it can do some pretty spicy things... 

It's times like this where I would like to remind people that Spores, Landslide, and Virulence are all first abilities. First abilities absolutely do not have to be weak. 

25 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

especially the 20% of the time that fall/collision damage works on enemies

I think that kinda highlights one of the main problems with Soul Punch: Its best effect, the CC, is wildly unreliable. Sure, environmental damage is capable of doing large amounts of damage, but you cannot depend on that damage at all. And it also makes it harder to shoot the enemy you just hit with it, because you have to find where the heck they landed. 

It would be much better if the ability directly did a substantial amount of damage and held the target relatively in place for a short duration. It affects basically one target in its current state. It should do really bad things to that one target. Especially if the lord of death himself is going to use it. 

[DarkSkysz]

Soul punch (Single Target)

*Keep the space program thing, its funny and useful.

*Add a new debuff to the target (Soul weakness, lowering all his status. Damage, armor, shield).

*If the target dies during the debuff, his soul will be under Nekros control (Mini 4).

Augment (Little Aoe)

*Add a new energy regen like if Nekros was feeding on his prey. Maybe that could be the augment name, Soul eater?

 

[(XBOX)SilverSurferGuy]

12 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

 

I'm not really a fan of this, though. For one, this is exactly what a puncture proc does. For two, reducing the damage of one enemy is just not very useful. And you're especially not going to need it when Nekros already has access to three large damage reduction sources and reliable healing.  

An idea I really like is making it an inverse of Smite. Smite damages one enemy a lot, and then uses that to deal damage to other enemies in the area. I think Soul Punch should do the opposite: Steal a small percentage of health from 7 nearby enemies (or maybe even Shadows, if enemies aren't present) and add that damage to Soul Punch's direct hit. 

Honestly, setting him up to be the thematic opposite of Oberon is an idea I adore. 

It's times like this where I would like to remind people that Spores, Landslide, and Virulence are all first abilities. First abilities absolutely do not have to be weak.  

I’ll be honest here, I had NO idea what the puncture proc did at all when I suggested this 😂

I see where you’re going though with making it the opposite of smite and I like it. I’m no fan of those single target abilities since the meta is on CC, which is why I suggested an augment with AoE. Also the fast paced nature of the game makes it a nightmare for me. 

[Andele3025]

1 hour ago, Gurpgork said:

I think that kinda highlights one of the main problems with Soul Punch: Its best effect, the CC, is wildly unreliable. Sure, environmental damage is capable of doing large amounts of damage, but you cannot depend on that damage at all. And it also makes it harder to shoot the enemy you just hit with it, because you have to find where the heck they landed. 

It would be much better if the ability directly did a substantial amount of damage and held the target relatively in place for a short duration. It affects basically one target in its current state. It should do really bad things to that one target. Especially if the lord of death himself is going to use it. 

Its just the environmental damage which is unreliable, the rest (base+ soul collision damage ofc apply even tho armor means its worthless, sending enemy out of bounds, getting enemy in ragdolled space forced into area not big enough for them thus game instakilling them while still dropping loot and doing a "BEGONE WENCH" while reloading) all work 100% of the time if you know how/have the opportunity to do it. And im quite sure that the environmental damage is actually a bug with the game ragdoll coding unlike with frost bubble which always does flat 50% max hp in collision damage. Thus suggestion of "does small % true damage" is useful, both making the armor/high level thing less of a issue, true damage means enemies that dont get ragdolled and are staggered by it instead (bursas, heavies under protection auras and bosses) or just take damage (object bosses+jugger) would at least actually take damage.

TLDR: Ragdoll is stronk, damage isnt, buffing damage to be small/5-10% (like 7 due to shadows number) true damage is all it needs... Maybe bugfix for collision damage too to either make it a actual thing or fully remove it.
 

[Guest]

It should just one shot the main target at all levels. Killing one guy in a horde shooter still isn't very useful and you cannot use it on bosses anyway.

Plus there is no need to CC that one guy if he is dead.

Thematically, if the soul is punched out, something should be like ... dead.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

What Soul Punch needs is simple: Instantly kill any enemy bellow X% health (like Dread Mirror) and the Soul projectile deals X% of the enemy's max health as damage (giving it scalability)

[Andele3025]

3 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

What Soul Punch needs is simple: Instantly kill any enemy bellow X% health (like Dread Mirror) and the Soul projectile deals X% of the enemy's max health as damage (giving it scalability)

Nope, below x % instakills are worthless and the projectile is unreliable if you want it to deal path damage due to its output angle being determined by center of enemy base pose model thus varies wildly by enemy even if on the same plane as enemy, at best main hit being % true damage would on the other hand make a dent in the units you cant woosh away.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

33 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Nope, below x % instakills are worthless and the projectile is unreliable if you want it to deal path damage due to its output angle being determined by center of enemy base pose model thus varies wildly by enemy even if on the same plane as enemy, at best main hit being % true damage would on the other hand make a dent in the units you cant woosh away.

Nope, Instantly killing enemies at a certain threshold regardless of level is much better; hence why Garuda is such a greatly designed Warframe. Plus, it makes sense, both logically and thematically. You're literally ripping away the opponent's soul. It should instantly kill. However, that's my opinion, you have yours (which is wrong anyway lulz)

[Andele3025]

1 minute ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Nope, Instantly killing enemies at a certain threshold regardless of level is much better; hence why Garuda is such a greatly designed Warframe. Plus, it makes sense, both logically and thematically. You're literally ripping away the opponent's soul. It should instantly kill. However, that's my opinion, you have yours (which is wrong anyway lulz)

Ok, you wish to nerf nekros, objective truth remains however % true damage actually scales, a kill threshold doesnt because enemy hp needs to get to that point.

And no, Garuda is ok because she got a massive animation buff, can pseudo reliably use QT with a 3 target % damage disable and can force slash procs. In fact the good part of her 1 (storing % of enemy hp as damage) still needs to be charged up due to not being true damage (without the forced slash procs).

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

8 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Ok, you wish to nerf nekros, objective truth remains however % true damage actually scales, a kill threshold doesnt because enemy hp needs to get to that point.

And no, Garuda is ok because she got a massive animation buff, can pseudo reliably use QT with a 3 target % damage disable and can force slash procs. In fact the good part of her 1 (storing % of enemy hp as damage) still needs to be charged up due to not being true damage (without the forced slash procs).

A kill threshold of 40-50% is FAR from a nerf. My suggestion implies that Soul Punch will be the finishing blow on any enemy. I do not want it to be true damage so it can be spammed and abused; I enjoy using my brain.

[Andele3025]

Just now, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

A kill threshold of 40-50% is FAR from a nerf. My suggestion implies that Soul Punch will be the finishing blow on any enemy. I do not want it to be true damage so it can be spammed and abused; I enjoy using my brain.

Its a massive nerf and true damage and % damage both exist (in fact frost does 50% max hp as true damage to everyone hit into any surface by frost globe). That would be why it would scale unlike cowards execute.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

27 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Its a massive nerf and true damage and % damage both exist (in fact frost does 50% max hp as true damage to everyone hit into any surface by frost globe). That would be why it would scale unlike cowards execute.

I love how you're calling my suggestion a nerf when it's infinitely better than what we currently have for Nekros.

[Andele3025]

Just now, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

I love how you're calling my suggestion a nerf when it's infinitely better than what we currently have for Nekros.

Because 1) it doesnt fix the issue that only the cc/ragdoll immune targets are the ones that cant already be instakilled by it 2) it would nerf the skill by taking up a actual buff/change for a 0 positive because sub x %value executes are objectively worthless

If you do actually want for nekros to get some slight buffs, prove it by naming the 3, no actually just the 2 (reliable) ways (aka no need to mention the sometimes in effect-mostly not fall/collision damage) nekros 1 can instakill a enemy thats not due to the tiny amount of base damage youll prove you know about nekros at least as much as i do. One should be super obvious while the other requires some knowledge of mechanics of both soul punch and the game.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

11 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Because 1) it doesnt fix the issue that only the cc/ragdoll immune targets are the ones that cant already be instakilled by it 2) it would nerf the skill by taking up a actual buff/change for a 0 positive because sub x %value executes are objectively worthless

If you do actually want for nekros to get some slight buffs, prove it by naming the 3, no actually just the 2 (reliable) ways (aka no need to mention the sometimes in effect-mostly not fall/collision damage) nekros 1 can instakill a enemy thats not due to the tiny amount of base damage youll prove you know about nekros at least as much as i do. One should be super obvious while the other requires some knowledge of mechanics of both soul punch and the game.

I'm not going to argue, my idea is objectively better. Hence why a lot of players really liked the idea when I made a thread about it and everyone hated your terrible 7% max health suggestion. Here, a refresher: 

 

[Andele3025]

 

12 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

I'm not going to argue, for i have no objectively solid arguments, here is post with 10 upvotes by people that never touched nekros

Thank you for admitting defeat, that % true damage is objectively better and that you have no knowledge of nekros nor understanding of enemy scaling above level 40 (if even that, hopefully).

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

21 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

 

Thank you for admitting defeat, that % true damage is objectively better and that you have no knowledge of nekros nor understanding of enemy scaling above level 40 (if even that, hopefully).

You deliberately edited what I said to suit your needs. That's a new level of pathetic on the forums. Funny how all the players that agreed with me are wrong and the one loser that made a suggestion no one agrees with is right. At any rate, I bid you farewell 😛

[Andele3025]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

You deliberately edited what I said to suit your needs. That's a new level of pathetic on the forums. Funny how all the players that agreed with me are wrong and the one loser that made a suggestion no one agrees with is right. At any rate, I bid you farewell 😛

You being salty over me being right and now exposed to not even know how Soul Punch already insakills mooks that arent immune to the ragdoll in addition to having a objectively bad (and nerf) suggestion to it is not my issue. However im happy that you admit defeat and hopefully wont repeat your nerf push of nekros again.

[Gurpgork]

On 2019-01-15 at 8:33 PM, Andele3025 said:

sending enemy out of bounds, getting enemy in ragdolled space forced into area not big enough for them thus game instakilling them while still dropping loot

What you're describing is an exploit. The ability to exploit a flaw in the game's design to instakill an enemy through wonky collision physics =/= a good and well designed ability. 

An ability's best trait should be common knowledge, and by extension, easily accessible. The thing you're describing to say Soul Punch is good right now is neither of those things. 

On 2019-01-15 at 8:33 PM, Andele3025 said:

buffing damage to be small/5-10%

That would require 10-20 casts of the ability to kill one target if we're only using intended mechanics (which we should for reasons I really don't think I should have to explain). We're talking 250-500 energy here. Smite does 35%. Why should Soul Punch only do 5-10%? 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Gurpgork

[Andele3025]

26 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

What you're describing is an exploit.

That would require 10-20 casts of the ability to kill one target if we're only using intended mechanics (which we should for reasons I really don't think I should have to explain). We're talking 250-500 energy here. Smite does 35%. Why should Soul Punch only do 5-10%? 

Exploit would provide a benefit that cant be achieved otherwise in a better way (again frost did the same, he got the fix in 50% max hp collision damage instead)

And because 1) It should be true damage 2) smite does 35% divided across pellets which can disperse via geometry/other enemies and are delayed otherwise, garuda does her 10% on hit, Rev does 8% on wave pass, Hydroid energy per armor kill is between 30 to 96 energy depending on efficiency and enemy count making a value around 5-10 (7 to fit his soul count) fitting for a one handed spammable without a cast delay or secondary conditions 3) Nekros inherently values energy less than the other frames due to the Health to Energy part of the Equilibrium mod essentially only being efficient on him and on him its better than any amount of efficiency 4) are you telling me that even if it were 500 energy, it wouldnt be worth to have a no ammo or other investment way to murder a level 126-204 scaled jugger or bursa?

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Exploit would provide a benefit that cant be achieved otherwise in a better way (again frost did the same, he got the fix in 50% max hp collision damage instead)

So, why are you on a soul punch thread? Go make a thread about Mag's pull wiping maps instead if you think exploits is the way to go.

I mean, it's reasonable, no?