PVP Conclave+Framefighter Not left to Dye

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

Survival For War frames future  improving the 

PVP Framefighter  

PVP Conclave   

 

my suggestion Hire New Experts on PVP AND Take PvP Ideas from Other Games

can you guys hire a group of people that are brilliant at PVP 

if destiny+ Division 2 can do it for their shooting pvp

if injustice+mortal combat,Sol Calibur 6 teams can do it  for their 2D fighting pvp

you can do it too

Why

PVP is another aspect and part of Warframe that needs to be looked  not left to die

if Pvp gets good then lot of us would be occupied with it. This would buy time for the Devs to improve PVE content 

 

How

PVP Conclave I made a thread long for 

lowering the over all speed for Bullet Jumping L1+X,Bullet Rolling L1,Double Jump X,X

Cutting Distance in half for Bullet Rolling L1 Bullet Jumping L+X (These PVE stuff must be toned down in pvp when your fighting another warframe who does the same as you, lot of the players dont realise that in PVE the grineer are easy to hit since they dont have warframe abilities of mobility,Many grinner and Corpus stand still and therefore easy to hit )

Taking away knock down ability on Melee stances which cause knock down at the end

Weapon reworks based on a formula like head shots do more damage,then body shots,then leg and arm shots are weakest.

Adding Bigger Stages with lower and underground access and boxes and vents to climb and take cover behind

Adding light and Dark areas in Stages for concealing presence

Removing red highlight off players and Camera zoom on Killer that killed players

Adding Feature Wall hugging and shooting behind cover, Wall Hugging and Moving while taking cover

 

---=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

PVP Frame fighter you need to copy S calibur 6 / Injustice /mortal combat teams in this

you can create a martial art type and put  into a MOD which has a certain fighting style (kung fu,Boxing,kick boxing,Karate,jeet kundi, Mua thai,)

that way Frames can change their fighting style with these mods and you dont need to work on individual warframes.

so hard giving over 30 warframes unique combos.

Loot

There should be New Skins and New items each Season to keep content fresh like Destiny does for its players

[SneakyErvin]

No, the lack of popularity in Conclave along with Dark Sectors being removed should be a big enough indicator that WF isnt a game where people look for PvP.

1% (or less) of the population it not something you should design or rework content for.

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

18 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

 WF isnt a game where people look for PvP.

its bad i wouldnt look for it either

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

On 2019-01-17 at 4:56 PM, BiancaRoughfin said:

-Snip-

Anthemn is called paid warframe 

[BiancaRoughfin]

52 minutes ago, (PS4)lokaspoka said:

Anthemn is called paid warframe 

The game hasnt even launched yet so people that say that dont know what they are saying, also the game has EA on the cover, that alone makes it nowhere close to Warframe.

[VenomousValentine]

On 2019-01-17 at 9:01 AM, SneakyErvin said:

No, the lack of popularity in Conclave along with Dark Sectors being removed should be a big enough indicator that WF isnt a game where people look for PvP.

1% (or less) of the population it not something you should design or rework content for.

The reason people don't care about pvp in this game is because the DEVS don't care about it. It's a bad implementation. If pvp was actually good, balanced, and intuitive it would have a sizable and dedicated playerbase.

#*!% even the extremely small playerbase conclave has is extremely dedicated. Most people who still play conclave,  ONLY play conclave. 

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, VenomousValentine said:

The reason people don't care about pvp in this game is because the DEVS don't care about it. It's a bad implementation. If pvp was actually good, balanced, and intuitive it would have a sizable and dedicated playerbase.

#*!% even the extremely small playerbase conclave has is extremely dedicated. Most people who still play conclave,  ONLY play conclave. 

Sure if it was well designed. The problem is still that aslong as the PvP is the twitchy mess that it is, the whole idea of well designed goes down the trash can. I'm a massive PvPer, have been for the last 20 years or so (not counting arcade/console fighting games years before that) and I see absolutley no appeal with WF PvP. It has everything I dislike in PvP games, especially shooters. There are no real objectives, the few objective based modes are just run of the mill on small maps aswell. There are too many weapons and classes to balance, too much gear over skill etc. 

The only PvP that would work for me in WF would be Grineer vs Corpus, Battlefield style with limited moddable weapons and classes, regular "slow paced" movement, some vehicles and a large map with conquest, ctf and rush-like game modes. I still dont think it would be worth the time and resources to create something like that because the majority of the playerbase simply dont seem interested in PvP at all.

[VenomousValentine]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Sure if it was well designed. The problem is still that aslong as the PvP is the twitchy mess that it is, the whole idea of well designed goes down the trash can. I'm a massive PvPer, have been for the last 20 years or so (not counting arcade/console fighting games years before that) and I see absolutley no appeal with WF PvP. It has everything I dislike in PvP games, especially shooters. There are no real objectives, the few objective based modes are just run of the mill on small maps aswell. There are too many weapons and classes to balance, too much gear over skill etc. 

The only PvP that would work for me in WF would be Grineer vs Corpus, Battlefield style with limited moddable weapons and classes, regular "slow paced" movement, some vehicles and a large map with conquest, ctf and rush-like game modes. I still dont think it would be worth the time and resources to create something like that because the majority of the playerbase simply dont seem interested in PvP at all.

>gear over skill

You clearly have never played conclave. 

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, VenomousValentine said:

>gear over skill

You clearly have never played conclave. 

Gear has too much of an impact, that is simply how it is.

[Kontrollo]

29 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Gear has too much of an impact, that is simply how it is.

Look, you've already proven in the other thread that you don't have much of an idea when it comes to Conclave balance.
So let me just compile few things about you and your statements:

 

About Conclave stats/balance:

On 2019-01-17 at 1:08 AM, SneakyErvin said:

... I also fail to see the skill or charm in WF PvP, there is too much of a stat weight on it all and not enough skill. ...

On 2019-01-17 at 2:08 PM, SneakyErvin said:

... When it comes to stat weights they will always be unfair because they remove a large portion of skill. There is a reason why Overwatch, BF and CoD are skill based because there arent two million variables of different weapons that needs balancing aswell as having their own seperate crit and proc values. In those games it is simply about how well you aim once you get comfortable with the hero or weapon. You cant rely on a crutch that is critical strike unless you aim well and get headshots. ...

(There are no critical strikes nor random procs in Conclave, by the way, something you could easily have seen if you'd opened the Arsenal and switched to Conclave even once.)

 

 

About Conclave experience:

On 2019-01-17 at 2:08 PM, SneakyErvin said:

My biggest issue when testing conclave was that it simply wants fun and it lead to eye strain. As I said it is simply too twitchy.

On 2019-01-19 at 10:23 PM, SneakyErvin said:

Yeah personal experience really isnt an indication of how things are. I can tell you the exact opposite from personal experience because no one I know, nor me have alt accounts in this game and only play on PC. ...

Spoiler

https://imgur.com/a/naQ6qPJ

 

 

About dedicated servers:

On 2019-01-13 at 1:04 PM, SneakyErvin said:

There are far bigger issues with PvP in WF than just bullet jumping and fast movement. We have no dedicated servers to begin with, so that is the first big no to any PvP content (unless you are happy with any form of trashy PvP).

On 2019-01-16 at 2:02 PM, SneakyErvin said:

... Conclave has less than that and needs far more things to work properly, be fair, balanced and rewarding. Like the netcode, which is in an even worse state than most games because we dont have real dedicated servers. And even the dedicated servers available are iffy because they are set up by players, meaning there is no 100% way to know they are good enough to give us a great experience in a match. ...

On 2019-01-17 at 1:08 AM, SneakyErvin said:

When people talk about dedicated servers they talk about dedicated servers. Not whatever duct tape version we have here, because that is all that it is in its current state. It doesnt really matter if it is 8, 12, 16, 24, 50 or 100. It will never be on par when it is run by players and not professionals. There is a reason people rent servers in games and not host them on their own. ...

On 2019-01-17 at 12:43 AM, SneakyErvin said:

... They arent real dedicated servers ...

On 2019-01-17 at 2:08 PM, SneakyErvin said:

... Also, your comment about not seeing rubberbanding etc. in the videos means nothing, they were probably using a dedicated server, that still doesnt mean squat in the end and we only know how the maker of the video experienced it all. ...

(Newer ones were in response to me pointing out there are and that some people use professional-grade gear. Have you talked to one of those in the meantime as I asked? Probably not.)

 

 

I think I could go on, but let's leave it at that. Now why should anyone take you seriously here? For that matter, why are you still posting in this section? The people who do play or have played Conclave aren't fooled by this.

Now to be fair, here's your previous post slimmed down to opinion, and you're definitely entitled to that:

On 2019-01-22 at 1:45 PM, SneakyErvin said:

... I see absolutley no appeal with WF PvP. It has everything I dislike in PvP games, especially shooters. ... The only PvP that would work for me in WF would be Grineer vs Corpus, Battlefield style with limited moddable weapons and classes, regular "slow paced" movement, some vehicles and a large map with conquest, ctf and rush-like game modes. ...

 

Spoiler

P.S. I've seen your name pop up in other places, probably remembered it because of that icon. You're also the guy who doesn't know that certain weapons are hitscan (from here😞

SneakyErvin: "The only thing I can see as a solution if they were to add a BR mode would be a Clem Royale, nothing else. Everyone would play Clem and all weapons found would be non-hitscan weapons so actual aim and timing would be needed, like in all good shooters. Weapons like bows, lanka, grakata, stiletto etc. along with melee weapons and grenades (that would use your ability keys).

And this is if they ever were to implement dedicated servers first for the game, because peer-to-peer is already a PvP deal breaker for me as a whole no matter the game.

Doing a BR mode with all the different frames would be a mess of balance and never work."

 

Corvid: "Erm... you do realise that half of the weapons you listed are hitscan, right?"

 

SneakyErvin: "Actually they arent. Grakata might be, long time ago since I used it, but neither stiletto or twin grakatas are. Check it out in-game when you use them, you actually need to land your shots similar to Supra/Vandal. Hitscan would imply that it lands on the enemy the moment you fire, the weapons mentioned actually have a travel time before hitting their target, they just have a high bullet velocity so it is hard to notice at shorter ranges."

 

So I have no trouble believing you when you think things are unbalanced. It's because you don't know how things actually work.

 

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

-snip-

Firstly I may have missed the crit/status thing when I tried it out, my bad (that shows just how uninteresting it was to me). Secondly, the stats are bugged. I tried conclave a few times off and on roughly a month after I started playing just to see what it was. I didnt enjoy it either of the times but thought "what the hell it might grow on me", it didnt. And if you question it being a bug so be it, it isnt the first one I've had on my account. I've had massive issues with companion time in the game aswell, I wonder if my first Kubrow has managed to get more than 1h playtime registered even though I used it nearly exclusivley since I got it all the way through TWW.

And the personal experience part is out of context, one is about statistics (1 person doesnt make statistics), the other is about opinions over mechanics in a game mode. Worlds apart.

We've been over the "dedicated" servers several time. Atm the few there are may be enough, it will not hold in the longrun if DE aims for popular PvP. You need enough servers to back that up so people dont end up in poor host matchmaking games as often as they do in PvE currently. "Some" players using "proffessional grade" equipment wont be enough. There is a reason why it is never used that way in actual PvP focused games, like Battlefield, it simply isnt reliable enough. You pay a company to host the best possible servers to get the best possible experience and near to no downtime at all. As I said earlier, even with these "dedicated" servers, the connections are likely based on p-t-p. There is also no guarantee they run 24/7 and not just when the owners decide to be online and need it.

And regarding the hitscan weapons, test them in the plains and you will see hit reg long after you stop firing ahead of incoming ships. Same behavior as Supra. This goes for AkStiletto Prime and Twin Grakatas. I told the other guy the same thing and he never came back with his findings.

In the end of it all it just wont matter what DE does, they will simply not be able to make a PvP mode that appeals to more than a fraction of the playerbase. I think the majority of non-PvPing players are a good indication that the mode isnt balanced or good.

Edited January 23, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[Kontrollo]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Firstly I may have missed the crit/status thing when I tried it out, my bad (that shows just how uninteresting it was to me). Secondly, the stats are bugged. I tried conclave a few times off and on roughly a month after I started playing just to see what it was. I didnt enjoy it either of the times but thought "what the hell it might grow on me", it didnt. And if you question it being a bug so be it, it isnt the first one I've had on my account. I've had massive issues with companion time in the game aswell, I wonder if my first Kubrow has managed to get more than 1h playtime registered even though I used it nearly exclusivley since I got it all the way through TWW.

And the personal experience part is out of context, one is about statistics (1 person doesnt make statistics), the other is about opinions over mechanics in a game mode. Worlds apart.

We've been over the "dedicated" servers several time. Atm the few there are may be enough, it will not hold in the longrun if DE aims for popular PvP. You need enough servers to back that up so people dont end up in poor host matchmaking games as often as they do in PvE currently. "Some" players using "proffessional grade" equipment wont be enough. There is a reason why it is never used that way in actual PvP focused games, like Battlefield, it simply isnt reliable enough. You pay a company to host the best possible servers to get the best possible experience and near to no downtime at all. As I said earlier, even with these "dedicated" servers, the connections are likely based on p-t-p.

Sure then, it's all bugs. You don't even have to look at the stats in your Conclave Arsenal, it'd take you all of one round of actual gameplay to notice there are no crits nor random status procs.

Here's how I see it: You've proven to be a -- how to put it -- less than reliable source of information in the past. And whenever you're called out on something you double down on it, no matter what. Why do you still bother replying, I mean, would anyone here take you seriously now?

Want to talk stats/statistics? Here you go (two years old, but you get the point):

Spoiler

(2nd one was made by Pythadragon)

I have folders full of this stuff.

 

16 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And regarding the hitscan weapons, test them in the plains and you will see hit reg long after you stop firing ahead of incoming ships. Same behavior as Supra. This goes for AkStiletto Prime and Twin Grakatas. I told the other guy the same thing and he never came back with his findings. 

Ok I give up. I wouldn't be able to make this sh** up if I tried.

Alright then, just be aware next time you try to argue about Conclave skill/balance and I see it, I might just go and copy/paste the above quotes all over it again. Or someone else if they're faster.

 

18 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

In the end of it all it just wont matter what DE does, they will simply not be able to make a PvP mode that appeals to more than a fraction of the playerbase. I think the majority of non-PvPing players are a good indication that the mode isnt balanced or good.

And we're at this fallback argument again. I don't have much of an opinion on this right now, so I stopped bothering in the other thread. But think about it this way: Even if we take that (imho probably flawed) participation chart from two years ago, Conclave was about as popular as raids. And raids have been confirmed to be making a comeback. Food for thought?

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Sure then, it's all bugs. You don't even have to look at the stats in your Conclave Arsenal, it'd take you all of one round of actual gameplay to notice there are no crits nor random status procs.

Here's how I see it: You've proven to be a -- how to put it -- less than reliable source of information in the past. And whenever you're called out on something you double down on it, no matter what. Why do you still bother replying, I mean, would anyone here take you seriously now?

Want to talk stats/statistics? Here you go (two years old, but you get the point):

  Reveal hidden contents

(2nd one was made by Pythadragon)

I have folders full of this stuff.

 

Ok I give up. I wouldn't be able to make this sh** up if I tried.

Alright then, just be aware next time you try to argue about Conclave skill/balance and I see it, I might just go and copy/paste the above quotes all over it again. Or someone else if they're faster.

 

And we're at this fallback argument again. I don't have much of an opinion on this right now, so I stopped bothering in the other thread. But think about it this way: Even if we take that (imho probably flawed) participation chart from two years ago, Conclave was about as popular as raids. And raids have been confirmed to be making a comeback. Food for thought?

Not entirely sure why you posted a graph, that wasnt even what I was refering to at all. You just post random stuff to post it?

Also as I said, go test the weapons in PoE. Now I'm openminded here, what I've experienced (on more than one occasion) may have been client side issues since I rarely run PoE solo. The odd thing however is that is a patch a while back they removed the ability to equip or even see projectile speed mods on weapons that cannot use them i.e unusable on anything but shotguns and non-hitscan weapons. During this time they were still possible to equip on Twin Grakatas and AkStiletto, but not on Soma, Braton, Sybaris and their versions. I cant check that method in-game now because currently all weapons can see and equip projectile speed mods.

While yes, the graph showed similar participation, it is still more natural to re-implement reworked raids since the majority of the community are here for the PvP. Personally however I wouldnt mind if the raids were canned. I've seen it mess up other games just because they had to have raids in an otherwise solo to small group game. For me, WF simply isnt the type of game that can get actual raids that are good. Most non-trinity games just fail misserably at it because you just dont have the right options for group composition to get interesting boss fights. You cant get those moments during a fight where both tank and healer needs to be completely on their toes to survive through some real harsh punishment unless you have a game with a trinity group setup. Honestly, I havent played more than one non-trinity game where raids have been fun and that was GW2, mostly due to the open world setting of the encounters. Even ArenaNet had to implement more healer and tank-like specializations when they introduced the "real" raids in GW2.

[VenomousValentine]

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Gear has too much of an impact, that is simply how it is.

Except it doesn't. You can make a brand new account with mk1 weapons and kick ass. 

[ant99999]

I'm pretty much signing below what @VenomousValentine said. DE have no interest in their own PvP (only the PvP team has but that's not enough).

To clarify that way of thinking I'll add a bit.

Conclave situation now is a ridiculous vicious circle made out of vicious circles: the situation when new players being propagandized against PvP and in their turn begin to set new players against it causes the situation where the Conclave becomes less populated which results in bigger wait times and even less population and then a new player comes to see what a mess that all is and proceeds to tell all their friends about how bad PvP is.

Other developers can now actually use Warframe's PvP as an example why such an important part of a game shouldn't be left aside without attention.

You think there were enough vicous circles with Conclave? Well, here's another one: the developers right now can't even begin working on it properly as it will cause an immediate mass explosion of salt bombs which the most toxic individuals of Conclave-hating community are. 'Why are you wasting your time and resources on this god-forgotten gamemode?!! Instead you better look at how underpowered the X warframe is when i attempt to do my usual 1 million hours solo Mot run with it!' - that's what they will say.

All thanks to the developers not caring about it since the begining. And as you probably understood, now it is even more unlikely for them to care because of all that mess they've let the Conclave turn into. And anti-PvP salt bombs will continue to grow bigger uninterrupted and even more convinced in how terrible/unfun/unbalanced/*insert your unreasonable negative characteristic here* the Conclave is

Wow, that was a large salty reply of mine! Seems like 'adding a bit' doesn't really work for me.

Edited January 24, 2019 by ant99999
typos

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

On 2019-01-18 at 12:50 PM, BiancaRoughfin said:

 the game has EA on the cover, that alone makes it nowhere close to Warframe.

My post was removed lol when i put image of anthem

[Dabnician]

On 2019-01-22 at 5:08 AM, VenomousValentine said:

The reason people don't care about pvp in this game is because the DEVS don't care about it. It's a bad implementation. If pvp was actually good, balanced, and intuitive it would have a sizable and dedicated playerbase.

If you had dedicated severs that the community didnt have to host..

[VenomousValentine]

On 2019-02-05 at 5:02 AM, Dabnician said:

If you had dedicated severs that the community didnt have to host..

They are dedicated servers. So what if they're community hosted. They work fine.

[Dabnician]

On 2019-02-08 at 7:44 PM, VenomousValentine said:

They are dedicated servers. So what if they're community hosted. They work fine.

part of the reason i dont like player hosted (and by that extension player hosted dedicated servers that live with them in their basement). is everyone else has to deal with that players bad internet.

But your original point is correct, the bad implementation of conclave is what i dont like, the fact that i cant just go in with my normal setup and wreck shop on other players is what makes it unfun, i understand why, cause i could stick 3 players on blood altars if garuda was able to go in with the pve rules. But its that fact that the rules are different that makes it not fun. suddenly i have some stupid rule set of stuff that doesnt happen in pve.

 

they should make it operator versus operator that actually seems more closer to lore and the fact that everyone is really an angsty teenager, plus there is way less that they would need to balance as they'd never have to worry about another war frame breaking it again.