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Melee 3.0 - Your most pessimistic predictions?


VanFanel1980mx
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- Range mods only applying to heavy attacks.

- Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds giving mediocre flat bonuses because they no longer scale.

- Frames with abilities that scale off melee (Like Khora) and Naramon's combo counter passive being overlooked and not reworked.

- Extreme combo streamlining to the point of having less total combos.

- Exodia Valor and Exodia Triumph having their effects nerfed from 200% to 50% because "the higher weapon stats make up for it in function".

In short, anything that can go wrong as a result of balancing Melee 3.0 around level 70 enemies and 20 minute play sessions.

Edited by Jarriaga
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3 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

- Range mods only applying to heavy attacks.

- Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds giving mediocre flat bonuses because they no longer scale.

- Frames with abilities that scale off melee (Like Khora) and Naramon's combo counter passive being overlooked and not reworked.

- Extreme combo streamlining to the point of having less total combos.

- Exodia Valor and Exodia Triumph having their effects nerfed from 200% to 50% because "the higher weapon stats make up for it in function".

In short, anything that can go wrong as a result of balancing Melee 3.0 around level 70 enemies and 20 minute play sessions.

1- we don't know if that is true yet. and I highly dought that it will be

2-if blood rush keeps its current stat but no longer scales then it will still be the single best crit mod i the game

3- khora does not scale off of combo and nither does Gara the only frames that do are Valk (who does not need it) and wukong 

4-the thing is instead of combos it will be attack sets when they showed the new temp royal you had 3 different attacks that you could then combo together a block attack moves you along distance with an uppercut then using one of the directional attacks or just melee you can then attack the enemy but we still know too little 

5-again do we know that

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Worst that can happen :

 

  • Combos triggered by movement direction  ( Means just 4 combos....and SAME activation for ALL weapons....ugh)
  • "Heavy attacks" are separate and cant be woven into combos.  
  • Unnecessary Directional slam is implemented instead of something actually needed. 
  • No "anti weakspot" mechanic for bosses/flyers.
  • No melee enemy mechanics for actual melee combat with some of them.  Need several units with rich melee combat...not some "mash E to beat" stuff.  Shadow Stalker, Umbra and Tyl Regor still utilise stunlocks instead of being awesome melee bosses that actually encourage melee approach.
  • Finishers, Gunblade Shooting and Glaive Throwing are not moved to a separate button.
  • Blocking, Parrying and such are "minor" mechanics, only usable against smallest of the enemies and only if you installed mods for them.  No Lephantis Parry... No Profit-Taker Mortar Homeruns.
  • Spam still wins big.
Edited by Kainosh
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49 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

1- we don't know if that is true yet. and I highly dought that it will be

2-if blood rush keeps its current stat but no longer scales then it will still be the single best crit mod i the game

3- khora does not scale off of combo and nither does Gara the only frames that do are Valk (who does not need it) and wukong 

4-the thing is instead of combos it will be attack sets when they showed the new temp royal you had 3 different attacks that you could then combo together a block attack moves you along distance with an uppercut then using one of the directional attacks or just melee you can then attack the enemy but we still know too little 

5-again do we know that

This is a thread for our most pessimistic predictions rather than a discussion on what's possible or not. That said:

1) 3TIzRTG.png

Sure we don't know that, but this little placeholder reach replacement displayed by accident on a Devstream indicates that it may have been the intention at some point. You can argue the wording is vague and may not mean that at all, but this is a thread about pessimistic predictions rather than optimistic deep breaths, so I'll take the mod's description at face value: No extra range unless you use a heavy attack.

2) It doesn't matter if it's "the best" if it's still vastly inferior by leaps to what it used to be if it no longer scales. Nice to see you decided not to address Weeping Wounds there.

3) https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Whipclaw : "Damage is affected by Ability Strength, the Melee Combo Counter, and certain melee mods."

4) So an overall less number of total combos and individual attacks per stance? Am I supposed to sidestep good vs. better and just accept that it's "different" by your train of thought? Being able to mix and match 3 attacks does not compete with the total number of attacks in a full combo and their individual attack bonuses. Particularly so when you have attacks in stances like Twirling Spire in which a "single" attack in a combo hits multiple times.

5) Indeed we don't know that. That goes both ways and this is a thread about pessimistic predictions.

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8 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Nice to see you decided not to address Weeping Wounds there.

it is a neish mod at best and only used on pure CO build that could fit blood rush when the melee can't use it.  I also don't have it so I don't think about it.  

10 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Whipclaw : "Damage is affected by Ability Strength, the Melee Combo Counter, and certain melee mods."

is it based on an internal combo counter like Atlas' and Valk's 1 or is it based on the melee's own combo?   if it is internal it will likely be unaffected.  I will admit I was thinking it was the same as Gara's which does not use a combo counter last I heard.  

13 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Sure we don't know that, but this little placeholder reach replacement displayed by accident on a Devstream indicates that it may have been the intention at some point. You can argue the wording is vague and may not mean that at all, but this is a thread about pessimistic predictions rather than optimistic deep breaths, so I'll take the mod's description at face value: No extra range unless you use a heavy attack.

there was a thread about this in October the general consensus was that it was + flat range and on heavy attacks + punch through, but if it is not that will not be that big of a nerf to me as I don't use range on my anything that is not a heavy blade or polearm (I will get more form another mod in many cases).  

 

16 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

This is a thread for our most pessimistic predictions rather than a discussion on what's possible or not. That said:

I admit I have trouble being pessimistic and often give others the benefit of the dought. (even EA, I blame Disney for the BF2 problems in large part and the cancellation of many Starwars projects due to the systematic destruction of the brand) 

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Most of my fears have already been touched on by other players, but one that seems hard to avoid how its been presented is that there are not enough buttons on controller setups for it to work as DE has suggested from the last info we were given. Range is going to be nerfed again, damage on my melee weapons probably gutted, channel maybe removed but charge attack stays and heavy strike uses the same slow animation; I won't probably like it, but can keep going. I only however have so many buttons when using my control from the couch; and I can not see how removing quick attack - as DE has said is intended - and making it a quick switch with fire retaining function to switch to guns is going to work with Xbox based controls at least.

I don't really see how the changes DE has suggested so far would kill spin to win; though it might change up which weapons do it; outside of removing Maiming Strike and similarly bonus carrying rivens, but if so some other pushed setup or conditional mod would take its place.

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4 hours ago, DanteYoda said:

I really hope it doesn't nerf ranged, as i'll probably quit and goto Anthem if so.. I hate melee and destroying ranged for me will make warframe unplayable.

DE said that at least weapons that have higher base range will be brought down, while some like sparring or dual daggers might get slight boosts. Ranged mods would have their effects greatly reduced, particularly if those teases from the earlier Devstreams prior to Fortuna are accurate. There is still some hope of it not being as terrible as it sounds, but we have no information from DE suggesting so.

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12 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

The death of Redeemer Prime (and to a lesser extent, heavy swords).

Edit - Scratch that. I thought of a much, MUCH worse one: the death of Life Strike. 

That would legit devastate me.

Life Strike is toast, bruh.

 

Done.

 

EDIT: Healing Return will probably still work, although it’s not as good as Life Strike, and really only works on Status builds.

Edited by BornWithTeeth
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On 2019-01-23 at 11:34 AM, Jarriaga said:

This is a thread for our most pessimistic predictions rather than a discussion on what's possible or not. That said:

1) 3TIzRTG.png

Sure we don't know that, but this little placeholder reach replacement displayed by accident on a Devstream indicates that it may have been the intention at some point. You can argue the wording is vague and may not mean that at all, but this is a thread about pessimistic predictions rather than optimistic deep breaths, so I'll take the mod's description at face value: No extra range unless you use a heavy attack.

2) It doesn't matter if it's "the best" if it's still vastly inferior by leaps to what it used to be if it no longer scales. Nice to see you decided not to address Weeping Wounds there.

3) https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Whipclaw : "Damage is affected by Ability Strength, the Melee Combo Counter, and certain melee mods."

4) So an overall less number of total combos and individual attacks per stance? Am I supposed to sidestep good vs. better and just accept that it's "different" by your train of thought? Being able to mix and match 3 attacks does not compete with the total number of attacks in a full combo and their individual attack bonuses. Particularly so when you have attacks in stances like Twirling Spire in which a "single" attack in a combo hits multiple times.

5) Indeed we don't know that. That goes both ways and this is a thread about pessimistic predictions.

Punch through...wasn't it that was an issue punching through was the type killing things behind the wall 🤔?  *having flashback memories about pvp during the time the beta* ...Yea it is that issue back then because well...cutting people behind the wall issue again...Welp time bring out the galatine prime for this one and teach the dev the lesson again from their very old mistake again which I don't know why they brought it back AGAIN.

Anyway I know that is going be an issue again, they might change it again and not make it punch through...probably they will do really when you do heavy slash it increase the range kind of like bleach like ichigo wave slash but further hit probably or either simple they are really meant go with that ... mod... I find it the irony again and laughing about this again about the mod if it is going be like that again because this was during the beta time or before it (the 2.0 melee) which lots people were complaining about players are able slash though other players behind the wall and we were doing heavy attack and if they did this again it would instance replay players getting chop up except for its the players who is going single slice it all on enemies.  The fact is to the point everyone is going say "screw comboing, power striking all these enemies" 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

I only see that the developers are retaking their step back with this melee issue like stepping back to melee again accept for more additional rules changes for I guessing theory simple to be 1 way or another that players either will just keep on doing their regular job like the old school did for just simply charge attack or either they start air slamming the ground as everyone is going ignore the combo.  All I can say this is a mess again that the dev had put themselves into somehow all over and I wouldn't be surprised they did it another one.

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7 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

The death of Redeemer Prime (and to a lesser extent, heavy swords).

Edit - Scratch that. I thought of a much, MUCH worse one: the death of Life Strike. 

That would legit devastate me.

 

7 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Life Strike is toast, bruh.

 

Done.

 

EDIT: Healing Return will probably still work, although it’s not as good as Life Strike, and really only works on Status builds.

Going to take a long shot on a dark collar, but I predict Life Strike will be fine.  It might get a bit of mechanic change due to how it functions, but overall I believe DE won't really touch it.

Edited by (XB1)Thy Divinity
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The worst case scenario:

Blood Rush, Condition Overload, Maiming Strike and Breserker will break

The best melee mod will be Enduring Strike

 

But to be serious, I think the rework will be a good thing, there are so many things wrong with the current meta, and DE is good at listening to feed back..

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