DE this is a step in the right direction but please listen to the veterans of the game

[(PSN)Deadwood_Lane]

For real this is impressive news for sure:
https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-122-overview

But DE please listen to your Veterans of the game and add a solid endgame for once, even if you just set one guy on that mission it is better than nothing.

Thats all, I had to add some feedback. Im returning to my cave now.

[--F--NerevarCM]

People didn't listen anything Scott said.

[VentiGlondi]

Yes, two new warframes is impressive news for sure.

[Myscho]

Where is that promised feedback ??

[Gurpgork]

The reason they haven’t added a solid endgame is because players possess such gamebreaking power that it’s virtually impossible to challenge us. It’s really hard to add genuinely difficult content to a game that is fundamentally easy. 

[(PSN)Deadwood_Lane]

24 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

Yes, two new warframes is impressive news for sure.

Well, I read new tileset and a new syndicate and a couple of new quests.

Edited January 19, 2019 by (PS4)Deadwood_Lane

[(PSN)Deadwood_Lane]

10 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

The reason they haven’t added a solid endgame is because players possess such gamebreaking power that it’s virtually impossible to challenge us. It’s really hard to add genuinely difficult content to a game that is fundamentally easy. 

Yea man, its either add that or do a hard game balance. It seems a big balance rework won't happen though so a solid endgame should be something possible at least. They really need to tweak arbitrations and such.

[(PSN)Deadwood_Lane]

33 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

People didn't listen anything Scott said.

What was that? I didn't watch the stream...

[(PSN)Deadwood_Lane]

27 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

Yes, two new warframes is impressive news for sure.

Well I rather they didn't add any imo, better with more tilesets and more content as we dont need more weapons and warframes imo, just my opinion though so don't get upset. 🙂

[(PSN)Deadwood_Lane]

23 minutes ago, Myscho said:

Where is that promised feedback ??

lol. 😄 I am a man of few words. 😄

[Gurpgork]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Deadwood_Lane said:

Yea man, its either add that or do a hard game balance. It seems a big balance rework won't happen though so a solid endgame should be something possible at least. They really need to tweak arbitrations and such.

It’s a possibility that a balance rework might happen. They did say that they’re experimenting with a new damage/modding system in Railjack that’s simpler and doesn’t multiply player power to as extreme of an extent. 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Melee 3.0 in bits and pieces by weapon type. At least it's coming rather than "soon"

[CarrotSalad]

Whats a solid endgame again?

Because i've heard so many differing versions of it that a simple sentence has lost all meaning.

Edited January 19, 2019 by CarrotSalad

[Ekemeister]

Screw endgame. I'm more interested in "mission wrinkles" as the man in the beanie put it. What interesting, new situations requiring thought and decision making might DE have in store?

[Xzorn]

The only thing they really said in terms of veteran content for me was the "Difficulty Slider" which I assume means level slider.

I'm pretty sure I can look in 20 difference places where the community had this idea or similar over the years so it's hardly a new concept. The mechanics are already in game to give players quick access to meaner enemies. The Vallis Alert system scales incredibly fast but they stop at lvl 125 for no reason.

I myself posted a concept of having Void Fissures be backwards compatible. Lith only spawns on those appropriate planets, Meso will spawn on it's planets + Lith planets and Axi can spawn on any planet other Fissures spawn. The enemies are scales accordingly. We still don't even have good variety and that was the whole point.

[GrimAtrament]

11 hours ago, CarrotSalad said:

Whats a solid endgame again?

Because i've heard so many differing versions of it that a simple sentence has lost all meaning.

im convinced some of these vets are looking for a "you win the game screen." i.e a definitive end of the game at this point which will never happen. because if they make a definitive end they can't add anything after it. and that would basically be the death of warframe. 

 

 

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Lots of “Veterans” don’t care about the game, why DE should care about them? As I stated several times, decent amount of Vets are put themselves into Solo, so they increase the distance between them and “new” players, making for DE hard to satisfy players on opposite sites. For game its not important that individuals are super strong but the whole playerbase must be. 

[Skyrage]

Define "endgame" in Warframe first.

[AntiMomentum]

17 hours ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

People didn't listen anything Scott said.

Scott put some of the issue out pretty well at 43 minutes in the devstream. There is no one fix that can happen to make more challenging content for everyone, even though I don't actually think they used the word "endgame" in the devstream.

I think having a completely optional "endgame" that won't have a negative impact on new players but still offers more challenge to those who chose to do it is the best start to getting a real endgame. Just a start. Another requirement would be something that requires more than dps to win. Mesa's dps is about the top for most frames and is more tanky than most too ( I realize plenty of frames can be tanky tho nowadays). Content that actually requires cc or something at high enemy levels without taking hours just to start getting there. 

Rather than more nullifiers there could be some much larger AoE effect from certain enemies that weakens weapons or abilities, and at higher levels can do so rather quickly. Or enemies that have really high health and adaptation like sentients. Just for more suggestions. 

I'm not sure about a difficulty slider. I mean yeah, if the rewards are worth it sure. Especially if we can get to level 1000+ enemies before too long at least in some of the higher level missions on the star chart

Edited January 20, 2019 by AntiMomentum

[toxicitzi]

18 minutes ago, Skyrage said:

Define "endgame" in Warframe first.

Maps, areas, missions beyond the Star chart, or in currently locked out areas in the Star chart.

The main idea of an endgame content, is Content that comes after the first nodes that serve as introductory for the game and I'd argue that, from my experience with lots of games, the best thing that Kela de Thaym serves as is possibly the toughest non-endgame content, the point from which endgame content should've started to be defined.

 

That said, the only hurdle I see here is this vicious cycle Warframe community and its developers have, of re-balancing things, because the game obviously needs it, when warframes can just obliterate anything, I have to wonder, how does one even go about defining a challenging objective, or even one single scenario of such? You can show me ESO and I see there, hordes of enemies getting obliterated within seconds, even at levels over 100, how else does someone curb that to make it more challenging, other than messing with the stat numbers?

It's the same enemies as before, their AI functions exactly the same as before, with the only difference being an Accuracy stat being increased, this is why I keep saying, making the game about endless doesn't make sense, it's a good Side-feature to go alongside a real and dedicated number of new places made for the sole purpose of endgame content.

 

 

and as for new players who might be worried, really, just let me ask you this. Do you really want all content to be made for both old and new players alike? If you do, you'll meet more of the same balancing and time gating you've seen in PoE and Fortuna, which is designed with veterans/old players blazing through it in mind. You'll be doing the same content as them, which is gated for them hard, so, what that means is you're gonna be trying to compete on the same level as veterans on it.

That's not a good system, really, it's bad to put together new players and old players alike in the same areas, new players should be enjoying the content they have early on and that content should be enjoyable, if they enjoy the early content, then they'll look forward to, "what's next?" and That's where content for old players comes in.

Not to mention, if you keep going like this, eventually content for new players will become bloated, far too complex to any new player to understand immediately as they join in, less so for old players, as well as equally unsatisfying, because it was made to keep new players joining in the new release. In short, I don't see anyone winning here.

[Chaemyerelis]

You can create a real endgame when some frames can just not die no matter what.

[XenMaster]

18 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

The reason they haven’t added a solid endgame is because players possess such gamebreaking power that it’s virtually impossible to challenge us. It’s really hard to add genuinely difficult content to a game that is fundamentally easy. 

Well thats warframe feature that DE intended to put it.

 

If they say no and nerf it, well everyone piss off

[MrWednesday]

4 hours ago, hazerddex said:

im convinced some of these vets are looking for a "you win the game screen." i.e a definitive end of the game at this point which will never happen. because if they make a definitive end they can't add anything after it. and that would basically be the death of warframe. 

 

 

NOPE! Endgame means content that will never expire. If you give players a "You win screen" it means they beat the game and there is no more challenge left. The only true endgame is one that is continuously challenging, what immediately comes to mind is Rank PvP. It is hard for players to reach max rank, and given an elo system, those at max rank will have to fight to stay at their rank. This creates a perpetual goals for new and veteran players. New players will have something to look forward to and old players wanting to keep their prestige.

Obviously PvP in Warframe requires massive balancing. Make PvP seperate mode where it required seperate mod sets and all the stat changes to can be kept to only PvP. Basically Conclave but better!? Another important thing is to tie rewards of PvP & PvE to encourage players to pursue both at the expense of neither. For example, ludicrous Endo PvP rank ups, vaulted relics, etc. High rank PvP will have special items that are only accessible if they kept their ranks. This "special items" could be anything from cosmetics to rare funtional tools, but this is for further discussion I think.

Endgame PvE is harder to make because if something like 1000% damage buff exist on Chroma then nothing can sustain that type of OP-ness. Oneway is to make a big bad boss that can nullify damage/abilities of certain frames and grow stronger. For example, it has like 10 stage. If the first two stages Chroma was the main dps, the next stage it will take very little damage from Chroma's weapons and all his abilities are nerfed for the rest of the fight. And so on for other stages until the entire team is pretty much useless without proper damage calculation and preparation.The boss is resistence to elemental damage overtime like sentients. In fact, this could be a late game sentient boss that ties to upcomming content. Rewards has to be worth while though like unique cosmetics, strong weapons that are extremely over kill in normal content but can make fighting the boss a little easier? Idk.

 

[Skyrage]

49 minutes ago, toxicitzi said:

Maps, areas, missions beyond the Star chart, or in currently locked out areas in the Star chart.

The main idea of an endgame content, is Content that comes after the first nodes that serve as introductory for the game and I'd argue that, from my experience with lots of games, the best thing that Kela de Thaym serves as is possibly the toughest non-endgame content, the point from which endgame content should've started to be defined.

 

That said, the only hurdle I see here is this vicious cycle Warframe community and its developers have, of re-balancing things, because the game obviously needs it, when warframes can just obliterate anything, I have to wonder, how does one even go about defining a challenging objective, or even one single scenario of such? You can show me ESO and I see there, hordes of enemies getting obliterated within seconds, even at levels over 100, how else does someone curb that to make it more challenging, other than messing with the stat numbers?

It's the same enemies as before, their AI functions exactly the same as before, with the only difference being an Accuracy stat being increased, this is why I keep saying, making the game about endless doesn't make sense, it's a good Side-feature to go alongside a real and dedicated number of new places made for the sole purpose of endgame content.

 

New maps, areas etc, once cleared will simply return us to this point: give us endgame stuff. In other words, this is not really endgame at all.

ESO I would not call endgame content either due to it's nature.

The way I see endgame for a game like this is something akin to MMO's like EVE etc: you have a sandbox where you set your own goal together with or against other players, like territorial disputes and whatnot. In other words something persistent that can continuously go on by itself and be ever changing depending on what players decide to do.

Warframe however barely have any kind of feature like this and furthermore it would have to be limited to PvE related content only for a huge number of reasons. As for the rest, developing something from scratch would take ages.

Personally, I would actually look into invasions as the initial solution. Expand the invasion system tremendously and add various semi-permanent consequences and such. It is something that any player regardless of how long they have played can join in on and adding consequences and "difficulties" of varying degrees would not be too hard.

As for "difficulty" itself that is a whole different topic/problem mostly related to the damage model of Warframe but also AI and such. All of which also needs a rework given all the discussions around it.

[AntiMomentum]

6 minutes ago, matkiencan138 said:

 

Endgame PvE is harder to make because if something like 1000% damage buff exist on Chroma then nothing can sustain that type of OP-ness.

If you played an endless mission for long enough both his armor and his damage will eventually fall off. It'll take a long time no doubt but it will happen eventually. Rhino's armor scales to enemy damage, however his damage will fall off far quicker than Chroma's. If an endless mission could even just be started at those levels that's a start in the right direction.