Rift Torrent | Limbo

[(PSN)tissot555]

31 minutes ago, 0verridden said:

Dependence on a mod for a frame, indicates that the mod is good. It is excellent if it complements the frame! Rolling Guard is one of them, and I aspire to get it someday!

But I genuinely feel that your decision to replace Rift torrent out of all the other mods in your build suggests that Rift torrent is a useless mod, which is the entire reason why I started this thread if you had read it. It is useless, compared to the other mods you have for Limbo! And the damage boost you get from it, is clearly not useful. And with your playstyle, you do not appear to be dragging many mobs into the rift to make good use of it, so I feel that your decision to replace it with Rolling Guard is a very good move.  

I fail to see how you have demonstrated that Rift torrent is a good mod, seeing as how you deem it unnecessary yourself.

Maybe you could test out Rift torrent and see how much your damage increases on mobs? I don't care if you one shot them. 

 

Having your own playstyle for Limbo is fantastic. However, consistently moving cataclysm with your stasis, genuinely does not seem to be for me. I might give it a go with Rolling Guard, but I am pretty sure everyone who plays or has played Limbo, started with that playstyle for combat lol.

I guess I dont understand why your scale has only great and useless on it. Things can be good AND one man's trash is another man's treasure. Every heard that? Also you can lol all you want but if youre running around spamming rift surge then I lol you buddy

Edited January 29, 2019 by (PS4)tissot555

[birdobash]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

I guess I dont understand why your scale has only great and useless on it. Things can be good AND one man's trash is another man's treasure. Every heard that? Also you can lol all you want but if youre running around spamming rift surge then I lol you buddy

You literally just said "I dont understand why the other guys scale has only great and useless on it (when he clearly doesn't) and then proceed to say the rift surge build is absolute trash? It seems more like you're the one with the scale that only has great and useless on it.

We've both been very open to your build and even given you a decent thumbs up for your build you told us, but when you tell us rift torrent is useful but then literally NOT use it in the build where you say it's useful, then it's just flat out proving the opposite of what you want to prove. 

If you want to prove rift torrent is good, find a build where it doesn't troll your teammates (because this IS a squad based game) or at least doesn't troll yourself, that ACTUALLY uses the augment in a non detrimental way, because as of now the only ones are the variations of neg duration combat limbo builds, which you outright stated are "complete trash".

[(PSN)tissot555]

16 minutes ago, birdobash said:

You literally just said "I dont understand why the other guys scale has only great and useless on it (when he clearly doesn't) and then proceed to say the rift surge build is absolute trash? It seems more like you're the one with the scale that only has great and useless on it.

We've both been very open to your build and even given you a decent thumbs up for your build you told us, but when you tell us rift torrent is useful but then literally NOT use it in the build where you say it's useful, then it's just flat out proving the opposite of what you want to prove. 

If you want to prove rift torrent is good, find a build where it doesn't troll your teammates (because this IS a squad based game) or at least doesn't troll yourself, that ACTUALLY uses the augment in a non detrimental way, because as of now the only ones are the variations of neg duration combat limbo builds, which you outright stated are "complete trash".

I've already explained to you that when you kill an enemy that is affected by rift surge, rift surge spreads. If you are running negative range it does not spread to any enemies outside of your immediate area. Furthermore, with high duration rift surge never, NEVER, goes off before you kill the affected enemy in the rift or you or a teammate kill them on the material plane. Thus, it has absolutely no negative effect on team play.  And where did I call a rift torrent build trash? I'm calling a low duration build trash. This will be my last response as you just arent getting it. You stated yourself you've never tried a low range high duration build which tells me you dont understand limbo. YOU are the reason players hate limbo.

[WhisperBiscuit]

1 hour ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

I've already explained to you that when you kill an enemy that is affected by rift surge, rift surge spreads. If you are running negative range it does not spread to any enemies outside of your immediate area. Furthermore, with high duration rift surge never, NEVER, goes off before you kill the affected enemy in the rift or you or a teammate kill them on the material plane. Thus, it has absolutely no negative effect on team play.  

Ignoring the mindless hostility that limbo talks tend to bring up. Part of why rift torrent is bad is because it only increases your damage when you are in the Rift. Sure, with kills the surge charge transfers, so you can maintain your damage buff on enemies in the Rift, but it transfers to enemies outside of the Rift. You don't get your damage boost against them. With a neg range build, you would still have to spam surge and banish/cata to get enough people effected by surge just to get torrent damage high enough to be worthwhile, and all those things, with a high duration is going to be harmful to team play since your team is unlikely going to be in or stay in the Rift. So you don't run it, which makes sense since it isn't a good augment and goes against team play when it works. 

There are two options, in my mind that would make rift torrent worthwhile. The first being the damage buff applying no matter what plane you are in, and maybe make the in-rift damage buff innate to surge with the augment adding it to the material plane. Or make the in-rift damage buff innate and make the augment allow you to banish any enemy, in any plane, regardless of which plane you are in, so long as they are effected by Rift surge (the old playstyle, but more limited). 

[(PSN)tissot555]

1 hour ago, WhisperBiscuit said:

Ignoring the mindless hostility that limbo talks tend to bring up. Part of why rift torrent is bad is because it only increases your damage when you are in the Rift. Sure, with kills the surge charge transfers, so you can maintain your damage buff on enemies in the Rift, but it transfers to enemies outside of the Rift. You don't get your damage boost against them. With a neg range build, you would still have to spam surge and banish/cata to get enough people effected by surge just to get torrent damage high enough to be worthwhile, and all those things, with a high duration is going to be harmful to team play since your team is unlikely going to be in or stay in the Rift. So you don't run it, which makes sense since it isn't a good augment and goes against team play when it works. 

There are two options, in my mind that would make rift torrent worthwhile. The first being the damage buff applying no matter what plane you are in, and maybe make the in-rift damage buff innate to surge with the augment adding it to the material plane. Or make the in-rift damage buff innate and make the augment allow you to banish any enemy, in any plane, regardless of which plane you are in, so long as they are effected by Rift surge (the old playstyle, but more limited). 

You don't get your damage buff against the enemies outside the rift, but you do continue to get the buff inside from those affected enemies. You say that I'd still have to spam surge with a neg range build, but I actually play the frame and I'm telling you that's not true.

Here is a real example of how gameplay goes: I'm in the void, I run in the middle of, lets say, 10 enemies. My 2 is already active so when I hit my 4 the 10 enemies that are now inside the rift are frozen. I then hit rift torrent. I now have 300% damage buff. As I slaughter the enemies inside my cataclysm my damage buff goes down. However, if there were several enemies outside my cataclysm but still close by, rift surge would've transferred to them thus given me the 30% from each of those affected. Now think about it, with 64% range, which is what I run, the only enemies that rift surge would've transferred to would be really close by. So, by the time I kill the 10 I trapped in cataclysm to begin with, all the close by enemies are now running into the cataclysm themselves, OR I can use my operator to pull them in. Now I get to kill those enemies too. I can also dash out of my bubble, have invincibility due to rolling guard, cast bannish on the close by enemies, dash back into the void and kill them. All of this happens from one cast of rift surge. Sure if another 10 roll up after the fact that were outside of my range then yes I have to repeat the process, but in no way do I EVER have to SPAM rift surge. 

[0verridden]

Does the damage buff work off of your weapon's base damage? So the 300% is adding 300% of your weapon premodded damage? 

Do all frame damage buffs work off of the weapon's base damage as well? 

10 hours ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

I guess I dont understand why your scale has only great and useless on it.

Sorry I thought if I elaborated on it that you would avoid reading my reasoning.

You chose to add Rolling Guard and replace it, out of all the 8 or so mods in your build, you replaced Rift torrent. That indicates to me that Rift torrent is quite low on your priority list, for it appears to have come after 8 other mods? 

Your reliance on god tier weapons to kill everything is exactly my point. You depend on them to kill mobs. Alot of frames do and that is okay. But Rift torrent gives people the mistaken impression that it helps to kill higher level mobs. It does not do that.

Instead, it rewards mob hoarding gameplay. It scales off of the number of mobs you have in your rift, not their level or armour. So in endurance runs, it is also useless. You're better off choosing to add even MORE survivability to your Limbo as you have chosen to do so -  with Rolling Guard.

Note I do completely understand the viability of your build in terms of survivability. You maximize your time in the rift, and when you do leave, you use Rolling Guard. I also get your point that hypothetically if you HAD rift torrent,  your rift surge spreads to mobs in the real plane, albeit to a limited extent, to outside mobs without dragging them into the rift, and that damage boost is maintained, all 300% of it. I've tried 1200% with my a power strength build, the increase in damage does not appear to be alot on my end. Not to mention, not a sustainable playstyle. 

Hell, you avoid dragging alot of mobs with your build unnecessarily, good on you! But the rift torrent buff it gives you is negligible. Compare the numbers yourself. Hell, try using Rift torrent in your endurance runs. I would love to see how you fair any better with it than without it. If you do, teach me senpai.

--------

By the way

9 hours ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

This will be my last response as you just arent getting it.

Now now, we managed to get to this point of the conversation because we didn't give up on responding to you, or anybody else. Now we're at least discussing the Rift torrent augment's usability. A long way from talking about whether I was wanting Limbo to become like every other frame, no?

9 hours ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

You stated yourself you've never tried a low range high duration build which tells me you dont understand limbo. YOU are the reason players hate limbo.

Indeed. Making a tiny cataclysm with maximum duration so as to not bother our oh so noble and amazing teammates, and having maximum duration is such a difficult thing to understand. Takes an extremely high amount of IQ to understand the complex mechanics behind making an invincible frost bubble. Never mind that you have to spam cataclysm on every single pool of mobs you find in the map. 

At this point, people who hate limbo have 3 justifications for doing so.

1. They freeze everything/somethings in a mission which does not/do not benefit from it. Like ESO. If you froze everything in ESO like you had suggested by the way in a solo environment, I don't know if people would like you very much. EVEN though it could actually be an option. But I understand that you mentioned this as a possible solo playstyle in ESO. Just explaining why people would hate limbo.

2. They just do not like Limbo's skills' visual effects. Can't do anything about that.

3. They REALLY do not understand Limbo, and are frustrated that they have to do so to continue the mission properly. And no it does not take IQ or anything to understand it. They need to read and play around with him.

A little much to claim that someone who does not agree with YOUR playstyle is the reason players hate limbo. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by 0verridden

[WhisperBiscuit]

Bringing people's disdain for limbo into the discussion is a null point. No matter what changes, people will always hate limbo because of his basic mechanics. That could be fixed with UI and, maybe, rift accessibility. Make it absolutely, abundantly, and immediately, clear whether or not an enemy is in your plane (like a solid detail-less silhouette if in a different plane). And make the tears that limbo leaves after dashing permanent with up to 5 instances. So teammates know if the next target is shootable and if not to run over to one of the many tears and enter the Rift. That's how you stop limbo from trolling and get rid of a lot of the hate (aside from max range duration Easter egg hunt for bag guys). 

 

None of that applies to the additive, to weapon damage mods, damage buff that scales off of enemy quantity rift torrent augment. Which promotes trolling since you want to bring as many enemies as you can into the Rift to make it a respectable damage buff, but still won't be as much damage as 3 others players shooting the enemies, which they won't be able to shoot since they won't likely be in the Rift. And if you bring in a small number of enemies, so as not to troll, it's not enough of a damage boost to warrant the mod slot. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by WhisperBiscuit

[0verridden]

On your point that Limbo's Rift torrent only adds damage to Limbo if he is in the Rift plane. In most situations I would disagree with you that it is a shortcoming, but that is if we were talking about normal mobbing situations only.

I don't think it is within the scope of this thread but if we were say, talking about boss fights, I would agree with you. Rift torrent only applying to Limbo in the rift plane, makes the mod even more useless in boss fights.Obviously because you cannot bring bosses into the rift plane - nor would you want to if you're in a squad...

Edited January 30, 2019 by 0verridden

[(PSN)tissot555]

6 hours ago, 0verridden said:

 

Making a tiny cataclysm

Do me a favor, go in game put a max narrow minded and an augur reach on your limbo. This will put you at 64% range. Then go into a game mode and cast your 4. I think you are going to be surprised how large the area still is. Let me give you the rest of my build too so you have the duration I have. So constitution and prime continuity are the other duration mods. These four mods put your range at 64% and duration at 282%. Please just put these mods on and see what I'd does to his 4 and then let's discuss

[0verridden]

In the hopes of maintaining an earnest conversation, sure. I will give this a go. Note however I do not have primed continuity mod or narrow minded maxed. Sorry about that. I assume you are hoping me to try out your build with rift torrent on?

 

I would like to ask if you could try it as well? With rift torrent, and as I had said before, see if there is any significant improvement to your damage with it? Compared to your build without it in? Or even in your endurance runs? 

I ask this because I would really like to ensure we stay on topic with regards to Rift torrent's usability.

Edited January 30, 2019 by 0verridden

[(PSN)tissot555]

2 hours ago, 0verridden said:

In the hopes of maintaining an earnest conversation, sure. I will give this a go. Note however I do not have primed continuity mod or narrow minded maxed. Sorry about that. I assume you are hoping me to try out your build with rift torrent on?

 

I would like to ask if you could try it as well? With rift torrent, and as I had said before, see if there is any significant improvement to your damage with it? Compared to your build without it in? Or even in your endurance runs? 

I ask this because I would really like to ensure we stay on topic with regards to Rift torrent's usability.

I already know rift torrent. Of course it raises your damage if enough enemies are around. Do you run enemy radar? If you are just popping rift surge around 2 or 3 enemies then ,no, it's not worth it.  I will say this though if the bonus locked in for 7 seconds or something like that the augment would be so much better. It sucks that as I kill the damage goes down, BUT that doesnt discount the damage buff you can get. I think you said you dont have rolling guard right? Well then my question is, why not run the augment if you have room for it. Anyway, I pretty much haven't been talking about rift torrent this whole time. I understand that was your original post, but for me every limbo topic is just about how misunderstood he is.

[birdobash]

6 hours ago, 0verridden said:

In the hopes of maintaining an earnest conversation, sure. I will give this a go. Note however I do not have primed continuity mod or narrow minded maxed. Sorry about that. I assume you are hoping me to try out your build with rift torrent on?

 

I would like to ask if you could try it as well? With rift torrent, and as I had said before, see if there is any significant improvement to your damage with it? Compared to your build without it in? Or even in your endurance runs? 

I ask this because I would really like to ensure we stay on topic with regards to Rift torrent's usability.

I can sell you a primed continuity, for some reason I have 5 of them spare

[0verridden]

Sorry birdobash. I meant I don't have either of them maxed. Cause I'm a pleb who doesn't have that much endo. And I have yet to get access to arbitration. .-.

 

11 hours ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

why not run the augment if you have room for it

 

And yeah tissot I already have a power strength build made for maximizing the damage from rift torrent. My question is, how much is the increment? So specifically, say when you're using it for example and have attained say 300% extra damage, what were your dmg values before and after having applied rift torrent?  

I am very curious about where the damage bonus is being applied to. Is it being applied to after the damage bonuses from mods and so forth or does it add base damage derived from the weapon's unmodded stats? 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by 0verridden

[WhisperBiscuit]

17 hours ago, 0verridden said:

And yeah tissot I already have a power strength build made for maximizing the damage from rift torrent. My question is, how much is the increment? So specifically, say when you're using it for example and have attained say 300% extra damage, what were your dmg values before and after having applied rift torrent?  

I am very curious about where the damage bonus is being applied to. Is it being applied to after the damage bonuses from mods and so forth or does it add base damage derived from the weapon's unmodded stats? 

 

It's additive with base damage mods like serration. According to wiki.