Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

I feel like melee is severely underpowered and slightly useless.


AzureScion
 Share

Recommended Posts

Just going to let out my one-bits opinion about melee weapon types. I feel like this weapon is severely underpowered. I find it difficult to utilize melee weapons to deal considerable amount of damage to Hydron-level enemies with melee weapons no matter what weapons/frames I use. Some of the stances feels stiff, wonky, and either plants you into one spot so by the time you finish your combo there are no enemies within range or has too much mobility to even hit anything. Yes I only have limited amounts of melee mods (staple ones like damage, crit chance, crit damage, range, elemental damage, etc and I even have condition overload) but that's also the case for all other weapon types but the others prove to be quite devastating even with whatever mods I have.

Some people suggested me to use whips like Atterax. I did not like it. Even after putting a catalyst and 2 formas in it, it still got outperformed by my other non-catalyst no-forma guns. Spamming E plants me in one position until the combo ends. Sliding attacks also feel weird and too gimmick to be used effectively. 

Most people that destroys with melee weapons has tweaked to death, very powerful Zaw weapons with Maiming Strike on it, which I consider very hard to get at my current position in the game. I'm also in no position to acquire a Zaw weapons because Plains is just too heavy for my computer to handle.

So is this what melee has become? Use Zaw+Maiming Strike or be useless? If so then what's the point of the countless other melee weapons that we have? I don't use melee weapons 80% of my missions (Unless I'm playing Inaros but then again the melee weapons are just there to regain health back with finishers) and I do just fine. I consider melee weapons to be a cosmetic item now, only there to make your frame looks a tad bit cooler. At this point I might just unbind my E from the melee attack trigger because why melee if you can destroy more enemies with your Plasmor or Staticor?

I love close quarter combats but I don't like how melee weapons work in this game.

What do you think of the current state of melee weapons?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some stances are outdated and thus don't have the best combos. I am not arguing there.

How you want to play is up to you.

But this-

10 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

Use Zaw+Maiming Strike or be useless?

- is untrue.

I am curious now, other then the Atterax, which melee weapons have you tried? Have you simply not found any you like because of MR requirements? From what I renember ''Dual Zoren'' aren't bad starters if you have enough crit mods, and only at MR2 which is the same as Atterax, so you sould be able to get them.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's in a bizarre superposition of being too weak to be worth using and the most busted S*** in the game. There are a handful of weapons that are absolutely worth using in a proper kind of 'melee' fashion, and those are incredibly strong. Weapons like Gram Prime, Paracesis, Sigma and Octantis. These weapons can do some serious damage very quickly - my current go-to is Sigma and Octantis built both for scaling crits and CO and believe me, things do not survive it. Level 100 Bombards, dead, Raknoids, torn to pieces, elementally enhanced sortie boss fights, reduced to meaty chunks. That's not even counting things like the Redeemer Prime or the Zakti/Glaive Prime combo. And, of course, Zaws and Orthos Prime that a force field of blades and murder.

However, you're also right in that most of the weapons that can't do stuff like that are basically completely useless. The base power of Melee is absurdly low and doesn't anywhere near deal with the reality that there's a huge inherent risk with Melee as you('re supposed to) need to get close to enemies and close the distance. You're fast in Warframe but you're not bulletproof. And since it usually takes a fair bit of time to carve through enemies due to level scaling and the low base power of melee means that unless your current melee beats that inherent risk of short range (Polearms, Gunblades etc.), has actually good base power (Paracesis and Gram Prime) or can ramp super fast (Sigma and Octantis thanks to Final Harbinger), you're pretty much out of luck.

On the plus side, Melee 3.0, a complete rework of the system is in the pipeline that's supposed to fix it. It's going to be a slow-rollout kind of deal where they change things a couple weapon types at a time and it's been ages since the last news of what they're changing so I can't with good faith give any details, but they're buffing the base power of melee and trying to make it better to use. The communities divided and worried about it, but given that they're going to release it slowly to try and let feedback come in over time, I'm pretty optimistic.

Edited by Loza03
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Existence of Maiming Strike - bad idea.
  • Stances - too many combos with too many different inputs.
  • Combos from stances - some will feel clunky while others will feel favorable. What troubles me about them is that you'll get stance(s) that is a mix of both resulting in favoring one combo over the rest.

The only reason why a melee would feel underpower is because it has poor critical chance and status chance. Assuming you have Blood Rush, when modding a weapon for crit it must have at minimum 20% critical chance; for status, must be somewhere between 15% - 20% at minimum.

Another thing to look out for is unique mechanics, for instance Arca Titron ability to increase the damage of its next "slam" attack by 100% stacking up to 10 times per enemy killed. Upon using a "slam" attack it also discharges an AoE electricy proc. But wait there's more - the stances the weapon uses has "slam" attacks in it's combo so you don't have to use the actual slam attack, instead discharge the damage through the stance.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, NekroArts said:
  • Stances - too many combos with too many different inputs.
  • Combos from stances - some will feel clunky while others will feel favorable. What troubles me about them is that you'll get stance(s) that is a mix of both resulting in favoring one combo over the rest.

^I'd also like to add that several stances have aged like mold and only serve to slow down dps sometimes, Iron Phoenix is a good example, that lunge is awful but the only other attacks are the quick melee slashes or a delayed knockdown.

Hopefully Melee 3.0 will rework some of the more basic stances and give them better options.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It`s easily the most powerful weapon class, as it must be, because it does not have the range of the, erm, ranged weapons.

Thing is most weapons are hot garbage, but once you have the wepaon, mods and the right build, you can absolutely destroy.

Game is getting melee 3.0 this year anyway, so we should have broader options and better game mechanics.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The current state of melee weapons doesn't really mean anything when we still have melee 3.0 on the horizon.

Even though we've yet to get any hard numbers on things like mod, damage, and range changes we do know that a couple issues are already getting addressed.

Combos for instance seem to be going away entirely entirely and stances essentially becoming different animation sets (though I assume they still have their varying damage/forced proc values).

Base range being increased across the board might eliminate the modding issue of wanting Primed Reach on everything.

And the issues of mods like Bloodrush dominating melee builds might also be resolve with charge attacks possibly being the sole benefactor of the combo counter. As well the slide attack Maiming Strike meta might be (finally) dealt with or at least severely nerfed if their interaction with Bloodrush is removed.

 

Though as far as my view on melee currently anyways; it's definitely not an under performing platystyle and isn't as meta dominated as it might seem. Unlike the weapon meta for guns melee weapons are more reliant on the meta mods themselves instead of their base stats scaling well with mods. Even when using a non ideal weapon you can still achieve similar enough performance to more ideal ones due to the sheer strength of mods like Maiming, Condition, Lethality, or Bloodrush. Yes Zaws have objectively better stats in most/all cases but ultimately the difference is minimal until you go into extreme level territory.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I started playing, I assigned Crouch to mouse wheel click, and Quick Melee to mouse wheel downward rotation.

Been using the combo of them both for most of the game... with properly modded weapons against the appropriate enemies, always seemed to me to have higher damage output than guns. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

don't worry, melee 3.0 will come out any day now supposedly like it's been coming for a year and a half or so. People talk about the dev workshop as the start time, but DE had already been claiming that a channeling rework was Totally Coming Soon around the launch of their fetid PoE update, hence the random channeling efficiency node in zenurik and all of the zaw arcanes being channeling based as placeholders. They'll probably end up nerfing the S#&$ out of blood rush and condition overload but bumping up the baseline performance.

edit: really what's interesting is that they seem to be claiming that they'll be releasing it by weapon category despite the biggest proposed changes being sweeping systematic ones

Edited by OvisCaedo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

First: most damage on maps like Hydron would be dealt by some AOE frame like Saryn,Volt, Equinox, etc.

Second: Range + Speed + Blood Rush(or/and Condition Override) + crit/status mods accordingly to weapon type + Body Count = Insane damage

Third: you kind of right - most of the time it's easier just to do pew-pew

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Strange, most people consider melee weapons to be op.  I cleared the star chart with orthos prime, a very good polearm.

Most the weapons of each class are rubbish though.   You'll find a ton of horribly underpowered primaries and secondaries as well as melee weapons in game that are only good for mr fodder. 

Spin attacks are where it's at for most melee though, huge increase in damage compared to standing slapping an opponent with your weapon.  Get used to sliding as you attack and you'll clear whole mobs in a single strike.

And catalysts and forma are mandatory to make weapons powerful.  Even a good zaw will feel crap if you haven't invested in it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

After trying Valkyr and leveling her i agree with you op. The whole melee mechanics feels clunky and well sub par to ranged.

99% of time the melee animations shoot you off into areas where its pointless and do no damage or you get knocked down so much its dumb... way to much enemy CC in this game to enjoy melee.. And those attacking animations lol

 

Try using a dagger on a loot container haha... yeah no...

Edited by DanteYoda
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

You must be new or from YouTube, melee is the best category for scaling DMG, even WITHOUT a riven. All you need is a few hits, and then lay back while everything melts in front of your eyes, with the right build of course..

If you can actually hit anything while the animations fling you off like a whirlwind of stupid...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thing is, some frames are better suited for a melee oriented playstyle than others. I can agree that most non prime melee weapons are pretty trash, and that most stances feel clunky as hell, but, as with all weapons, it's the mods that will make a weapon great. You mainly want to keep a high combo counter with status chance and a condition overload, and enemies will just die fast as hell. A great weapon synergy i found is Inaros with Hirudo. Since hirudo steals health with every crit, just build it for attack speed and crit, and watch yourself kill everything while you are invincible. Combine that with  rage + hunter adrenaline for Inaros, and you will have unlimited energy to spend on channeling. While zaws can be absurdly strong, you do not have to create a zaw to be good.

Edited by inappropriatename5877
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

Thing is, some frames are better suited for a melee oriented playstyle than others. I can agree that most non prime melee weapons are pretty trash, and that most stances feel clunky as hell, but, as with all weapons, it's the mods that will make a weapon great. You mainly want to keep a high combo counter with status chance and a condition overload, and enemies will just die fast as hell. A great weapon synergy i found is Inaros with Hirudo. Since hirudo steals health with every crit, just build it for attack speed and crit, and watch yourself kill everything while you are invincible. Combine that with  rage + hunter adrenaline for Inaros, and you will have unlimited energy to spend on channeling. While zaws can be absurdly strong, you do not have to create a zaw to be good.

Why not just shoot stuff faster?

If melee is as good as everyone here suggests why is 99% of customers using guns 24/7...

Edited by DanteYoda
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, DanteYoda said:

Why not just shoot stuff faster?

Well yeah, you do have that option, but this thread is about melee. Of course you can take your Lenz, Arca Plasmor or whatever and wreck everything, but people like to have different options. I like using melee more than guns, cause I am not an fps player, but a hack n slash player. Plus, there are many warframes that can make melee really fun. Anything that gives you attack speed (volt, valkyr) can be really fun, or any frame with niche but useful interactions (mirage [hall of mirrors] , inaros [channeling build] ). You also don't have to worry about ammo, reloading, or missing shots, and if we add zaws and exodias to the mix, you have many more options to choose from.

Quote

If melee is as good as everyone here suggests why is 99% of customers using guns 24/7...

Well, people like to shoot stuff more than they like to hit stuff I guess. Don't forget that this is primarily a shooter game, melee weapons are just there as a secondary option. 

Edited by inappropriatename5877
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, DanteYoda said:

Why not just shoot stuff faster?

If melee is as good as everyone here suggests why is 99% of customers using guns 24/7...

idk about you but i see more melee users than gun users. and if you cant really use melee, either fix your stances or with all honesty, git gud. melee's are by far the most ridicilous weaponry out there. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...