Rework

[spirit_of_76]

38 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Yessss. If the low gravity thing would be replaced with a longer aim glide that would be much better.

no both I like the low gravity mode as it makes Launchers far better.  I would change her 1 to make mid-air hovering easier.  

Edited January 22, 2019 by spirit_of_76

[Chaemyerelis]

1 hour ago, stormy505 said:

So... You want to nerf Every frame?

Not every frame can be unkillable so 🤷‍♂️

[xMarvin732]

vor einer Stunde schrieb spirit_of_76:

True chroma needs a full rework if not a full redesign.  His 1 and 2 are so good that he is used for just them.  Despite his 1 and 4 being trash, he will need more than the normal rework to fix. 

 

First, his passive needs to change

Second, his 1 needs to let you change element on the fly

Third his 2 should do similar things for each element (there is a reason that Ice and fire Croma are better than any other Croma)

Forth his 3 needs better/different math

Fifth he needs a better 4

 

His biggest problem is that he is a buff rhino.  What would be better (and something we could use more of is a buffing paladin,  while Oberon is focused on defense buffs and enemy defense debuff he could be an attack buff and enemy attack debuff)

 

My suggestion for a Croma rework is as follows

 

Passive: commander - increases the strength of squad abilities by 10% when squadmates are in affinity range (this is multiplicative)

 

1:  elemental curse-cast a curse that procs an enemy with  a status effect changing lets you change the elemental type

2: elemental Ward- cast a ward around you allies this ward buffs allies against the elemental type and adds that element to their damage with its own stats chance, the element is dictated by

3: to the last- the current 3 but it calculates additional damage after and uses a base of +50% damage capping at +125% damage,  it will also include a flat armor buff similar to how Oberon's works (+ % armor is useless for most frames)

4: summon dragon- works the same way as his current 4 but uses the ignis wraith as a base for an exalted weapon,  the base element is decided by the element of elemental curse

all buffs are duration based, castable and sticky.  

"...His 1 and 2 are so good that he is used for just them.  Despite his 1 and 4 being trash...."
What?

"Second, his 1 needs to let you change element on the fly" How should it work?

"Fifth he needs a better 4" true

[spirit_of_76]

7 minutes ago, xMarvin732 said:

"...His 1 and 2 are so good that he is used for just them.  Despite his 1 and 4 being trash...."
What?

miss type I meant 2 and 3

7 minutes ago, xMarvin732 said:

"Second, his 1 needs to let you change element on the fly" How should it work?

you did not read very far did you

I will edit the original to remove the error and provide clarification thank you for the notification.  

Edited January 22, 2019 by spirit_of_76

[xMarvin732]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb spirit_of_76:

miss type I meant 2 and 3

you did not read very far did you

I will edit the original to remove the error thankyou for the information

You're welcome 🙂
"1:  elemental curse-cast a curse that procs an enemy with  a status effect changing lets you change the elemental type"
i mean how you change it on the fly? if its one active ability that does something against an enemy, how should you be able to scroll through the elements? (example with Ivara changing her arrows and Vaubans Traps)

[spirit_of_76]

 

7 minutes ago, xMarvin732 said:

You're welcome 🙂
"1:  elemental curse-cast a curse that procs an enemy with  a status effect changing lets you change the elemental type"
i mean how you change it on the fly? if its one active ability that does something against an enemy, how should you be able to scroll through the elements? (example with Ivara changing her arrows and Vaubans Traps)

man, I need to get better at proofing it is Charging not changing.  I don't know how quiver/minelayer is done but one option is hold to change element.  

fixed

Edited January 22, 2019 by spirit_of_76

[LightZodiac]

4 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

Valk- why does the warrior have less HP than some casters 

She does have the highest armor value in game, her unmoded EHP value is I believe on the third place of all frames.

1 hour ago, spirit_of_76 said:

True chroma needs a full rework if not a full redesign.  His 2 and 3 are so good that he is used for just them.  Despite his 1 and 4 being trash, he will need more than the normal rework to fix. 

First, his passive needs to change
Second, his 1 needs to let you change element on the fly  (try something like quiver/minelayer)
Third his 2 should do similar things for each element (there is a reason that Ice and fire Croma are better than any other Croma)
Forth his 3 needs better/different math
Fifth he needs a better 4

 

His biggest problem is that he is a buff rhino.  What would be better (and something we could use more of is a buffing paladin,  while Oberon is focused on defense buffs and enemy defense debuff he could be an attack buff and enemy attack debuff)

My suggestion for a Croma rework is as follows

Passive: commander - increases the strength of squad abilities by 10% when squadmates are in affinity range (this is multiplicative)
1:  elemental curse-cast a curse that procs an enemy with a status effect dealing some damage (scales with Power strength) charging lets you change the elemental type.
2: elemental Ward- cast a ward around you allies this ward buffs allies against the elemental type and adds that element to their damage with its own stats chance, the element is dictated by
3: to the last- the current 3 but it calculates additional damage after and uses a base of +50% damage capping at +125% damage,  it will also include a flat armor buff similar to how Oberon's works (+ % armor is useless for most frames or broken on other frames)
4: summon dragon- works the same way as his current 4 but uses the ignis wraith as a base for an exalted weapon,  the base element is decided by the element of elemental curse

all buffs are duration based, castable and sticky.  this will make him more of a squad buffer than a self-buffer.  

I'd like this kind of rework very much 🙂

[spirit_of_76]

24 minutes ago, LightZodiac said:

She does have the highest armor value in game, her unmoded EHP value is I believe on the third place of all frames.

yep but significantly behind an R 30 inaros and nidus due to her small health pool and moded sufferers form the poor quality of armor mods a max umbral fiber is 192.5% armor while vitality is 770% I feel that armor as a whole on frames would be better if its mods were about 1/2 the strength of health mods instead of 1/4 the strength.  as this would let more frames build armor rather than just Valk.  as it stands for armor to be as effective per mod as health you need to have over 4-5 times the armor as you do health.  also if Valk Prime had 125 health 600 armor she would have the same EHP as an Inaros for the same mods (after warcry) this would.  it is more of a thematic thing why does syran have some much health armor? her base stats are better than an Oboern prime's (don't get me started on her prime) and she is one of the best clear frames in the game.  however, it is not just her that gets more health despite the caster status zephyr is in the same boat with as much or more heath than Oberon.  there are more frames but not many, that are squarely in the caster camp that have better base health than valk or better base survivability than Oberon (without his 3 up he is very squishy).  

24 minutes ago, LightZodiac said:

I'd like this kind of rework very much

thanks, he needs help to internally balance his kit as well as externally balance him in the game as a whole.  I might have nerfed his 3 to much though but number can be sorted later.  

Edited January 22, 2019 by spirit_of_76

[Loza03]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I support this. The only Warframe that can manipulate your gameplay in a negative way.

Nova and Loki would like to say hi.

Nekros, Khora and Inaros are also going to drop in briefly in order make enemies harder to identify or hit, and every nuke frame in the game told me to pass on greetings to people who enjoy just messing around.

Limbo has problems, I will absolutely agree. He needs conveyance improvements and a way for others to get into the rift ASAP, but he's not the only frame who can negatively affect gameplay. Not by a long shot.

[spirit_of_76]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

Nekros, Khora and Inaros are also going to drop in briefly in order make enemies harder to identify or hit, and every nuke frame in the game told me to pass on greetings to people who enjoy just messing around.

as an Oberon main a shadows necros is the bigger troll expeily when not using shield of shadows

[LightZodiac]

1 minute ago, spirit_of_76 said:

yep but significantly behind an R 30 inaros and nidus due to her small health pool and moded sufferers form the poor quality of armor mods a max umbral fiber is 192.5% armor while vitality is 770% I feel that armor as a whole on frames would be better if its mods were about 1/2 the strength of health mods instead of 1/4 the strength.  as this would let more frames build armor rather than just Valk.  as it stands for armor to be as effective per mod as health you need to have over 4-5 times the armor as you do health.  also if Valk Prime had 125 health 600 armor she would have the same EHP as an Inaros for the same mods (after warcry) this would.  it is more of a thematic thing why does syran have some much health armor? her base stats are better than an Oboern prime's (don't get me started on her prime) and she is one of the best clear frames in the game.  however, it is not just her that gets more health despite the caster status zephyr is in the same boat with as much or more heath than Oberon.  there are more frames but not many, that are squarely in the caster camp that have better base health than valk or better base survivability than Oberon (without his 3 up he is very squishy).  

thanks, he needs help to internally balance his hit as well as externally balance him in the game as a whole.  

Every 300 armor doubles the value of the base HP, with all three umbral mods Valkyr ends up with 6260 EHP, Nidus with 5494 EHP, so I'm afraid your feeling is a bit misguided here, without using abilities she is 2nd best frame in terms of EHP. Such a ratio of armor/hp does have it's advantages and disadvantages, it makes it harder to gain energy from rage/hunter adrenaline but also she needs way less healing. Now with abilities Nidus does come on top but it's only usefull in static situations, kitty get's to run around.
Personally I would buff her a bit by giving her knockdown immunity (she is a kitty after all) and making "Eternal War" augment be a part of her kit rather then augment which needs to be equipped.
As for the Inaros he doesn't die... that needs a nerf. Saryn tanky caster with self healing and abilities which melt stuff even in sorties... either other casters get some chunky buffs or she should get a nerf.
I'd argue that Oberon does deserve a buff and Trinity a nerf, Harrow buff is also coming, which should put them on a more equal footing.

And yeah Chroma sole reason for existence ATM is to cheese bosses, at the same time it's really hard to use it as a buff/support frame in regular content those changes would pretty much address both issues.

[Chaemyerelis]

3 minutes ago, LightZodiac said:

Every 300 armor doubles the value of the base HP, with all three umbral mods Valkyr ends up with 6260 EHP, Nidus with 5494 EHP, so I'm afraid your feeling is a bit misguided here, without using abilities she is 2nd best frame in terms of EHP. Such a ratio of armor/hp does have it's advantages and disadvantages, it makes it harder to gain energy from rage/hunter adrenaline but also she needs way less healing. Now with abilities Nidus does come on top but it's only usefull in static situations, kitty get's to run around.
Personally I would buff her a bit by giving her knockdown immunity (she is a kitty after all) and making "Eternal War" augment be a part of her kit rather then augment which needs to be equipped.
As for the Inaros he doesn't die... that needs a nerf. Saryn tanky caster with self healing and abilities which melt stuff even in sorties... either other casters get some chunky buffs or she should get a nerf.
I'd argue that Oberon does deserve a buff and Trinity a nerf, Harrow buff is also coming, which should put them on a more equal footing.

And yeah Chroma sole reason for existence ATM is to cheese bosses, at the same time it's really hard to use it as a buff/support frame in regular content those changes would pretty much address both issues.

I saw valkyr so i hit like 😸

[spirit_of_76]

2 hours ago, LightZodiac said:

Every 300 armor doubles the value of the base HP

that is the best way I have seen the EHP equation stated yet.  the full simplified ehp equation is EHP=nhp+(nhp*armor/300)

2 hours ago, LightZodiac said:

Personally I would buff her a bit by giving her knockdown immunity (she is a kitty after all) and making "Eternal War" augment be a part of her kit rather then augment which needs to be equipped.

if that is done they should move the enemy slow to her 3 and reduce the casting cost to 50 and make her 3 cost 25 energy

2 hours ago, LightZodiac said:

I'd argue that Oberon does deserve a buff and Trinity a nerf, Harrow buff is also coming, which should put them on a more equal footing.

he does not need a buff to his abilities (they are fine) but a buff to his base survivability would be appreciated sometimes it is hard to cast his 3&2 before you are killed and to remove his interaction with necros' 4 (why does it exist)

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by spirit_of_76

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Nova and Loki would like to say hi.

Nekros, Khora and Inaros are also going to drop in briefly in order make enemies harder to identify or hit, and every nuke frame in the game told me to pass on greetings to people who enjoy just messing around.

Limbo has problems, I will absolutely agree. He needs conveyance improvements and a way for others to get into the rift ASAP, but he's not the only frame who can negatively affect gameplay. Not by a long shot.

You forgot speed spam Volt and bounce mine Vauban (and yes, people still do that).