Founding Warlord policy is utterly ludicrous

[MXXVI]

So I created my own clan. For myself. I wanted a dojo, I didn't actually want to join a clan, or team up with people to make one. So I made my own clan, gathered the resources to build my own dojo, and to research the various weapons. All on my own. For me.

Having done all of this for myself, years later I invited a friend to join my clan because he knew I'd unlocked a weapon he wanted. I let him join. I never promoted him or gave him any permissions; he just had access to research. We didn't really play together that regularly; he just sat in my clan, acquiring the things I had unlocked.

I took a short break from the game recently, and came back to find that DE had implemented a new rank. To my surprise, I found that despite being literally the sole founder of the clan, and the one person who had built and researched literally everything in it, YEARS before anyone else joined, and despite my friend being the lowest rank... he had been declared Founding Warlord.

DE had literally handed the keys to the dojo I made for myself... over to someone who had been the lowest rank. Control of my clan, and my dojo, was just... given to him, simply because I'd been away for a month. One month. I've been playing since the earliest days, but I leave for a month, and control of my dojo and clan is given away just like that.

Here's the kicker. He's not a regular player. I have no idea when he'll next play; the only reason he was not classified as "inactive" when this patch hit... was that he just happened to have logged in perhaps once or twice that month. According to DE's support, who politely informed me that they will do absolutely nothing about this:

Quote

Digital Extremes makes it our policy not to get involved with internal clan matters

Except they already did, by arbitrarily making somebody else the founder of the clan I founded for myself. They literally already interfered with internal clan matters, and now refuse to fix it, because they don't get involved with internal clan matters.

This leaves me in the position of waiting for him to possibly maybe at some point get around to logging in and promoting me, the founder of my clan, to the status of founder (if he remembers to do it, and feels so inclined)... or for him to be inactive for a solid month (which is not actually likely) in order for DE to get involved in my internal clan matters.

Now, it's entirely possible that he'll stay away just long enough for to trip the 30 day requirement (and for support to process the request before he randomly pops in again). It's also possible that he'll log in and have the decency to hand the keys to my dojo back to me. But the very fact that this tenuous situation exists demonstrates a fundamentally flawed implementation of the new rank - that this could happen at all is ridiculous. I mean good grief, 30 days? This isn't a subscription game. I'm not allowed to take a month away from the game I've been playing for years, without control of my stuff being given to somebody else? What if I'd invited someone less scrupulous? They can just... petition support to be given control of my clan whenever I take a month off?

I count myself lucky that I only invited one vagrant. I shudder to imagine the drama this could have caused if I'd been in the habit of inviting everyone who asked.

Edited January 22, 2019 by MXXVI

[MagPrime]

Have you contacted Support?  

[MXXVI]

As I quoted above - their response is that they won't get involved with internal clan matters.

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, MXXVI said:

As I quoted above - their response is that they won't get involved with internal clan matters.

Yeah, my bad.  I'm blaming the sinus infection.

That seems weird that they wouldn't look into the matter as it's DE's bug.  You're not the only person who's encountered this, either.  Somehow I landed the Founding Warlord title in my brothers clan, and I don't think it's a login thing either as he logs in more often than I do.  (My PC has been down until a couple days ago)

[Teliko_Freedman]

wasn't it if founder doesn't log in for a set amount of time, someone else can take over?

[IIDMOII]

I read your original post. I hope you get this resolved. I have a similar situation and may have to jump through this hoop.

The game seemingly made the least active person founding warlord. But I'm the only one left that plays. Everything in the dojo is mine. Everything. Resources, formas and enough time spent, that if it were taken away, I'd quit without hesitation. Especially considering that some forma and other stuff were purchased with real money. 

I know some people don't care about the dojo but it's a pretty big portion of my time played. I love having a customizable personal base. 

The thing that gets me is that the game isn't even recognizing activity or total contributions when giving ownership. It just randomly chose someone when my friends quit. Literally gave it to a guy with ZERO contributions and 3 days played. 

Edited January 22, 2019 by IIDMOII

[MXXVI]

1 minute ago, IIDMOII said:

I read your original post. I hope you get this resolved. I have a similar situation and may have to jump through this hoop.

The game seemingly made the least active person founding warlord. But I'm the only one left that plays. Everything in the dojo is mine. Everything. Resources, formas and enough time spent, that if it were taken away, I'd quit without hesitation. It's mine. 

I know some people don't care about the dojo but it's a pretty big portion of my time played. I love having a customizable personal base. 

Totally the same here - I loved the dojo feature, because it didn't punish loners like me. It allowed me to take the time to invest in building my own space house. But I think DE kinda forgot that they allowed people to do this - that clans aren't just clans in the traditional MMO guild sense.

And the thing is, the situation could be worse. This friend of mine - we didn't fall out or anything. But we have kinda lost contact. It's an inconvenience, but this situation could be really nasty; if he was a bad person, he could totally just destroy everything, rearrange everything, demote me... whatever. This shouldn't be possible at all.

[Yagamilight123]

hace 21 minutos, MXXVI dijo:

So I created my own clan. For myself. I wanted a dojo, I didn't actually want to join a clan, or team up with people to make one. So I made my own clan, gathered the resources to build my own dojo, and to research the various weapons. All on my own. For me.

Having done all of this for myself, years later I invited a friend to join my clan because he knew I'd unlocked a weapon he wanted. I let him join. I never promoted him or gave him any permissions; he just had access to research. We didn't really play together that regularly; he just sat in my clan, acquiring the things I had unlocked.

I took a short break from the game recently, and came back to find that DE had implemented a new rank. To my surprise, I found that despite being literally the sole founder of the clan, and the one person who had built and researched literally everything in it, YEARS before anyone else joined, and despite my friend being the lowest rank... he had been declared Founding Warlord.

DE had literally handed the keys to the dojo I made for myself... over to someone who had been the lowest rank. Control of my clan, and my dojo, was just... given to him, simply because I'd been away for a month. One month. I've been playing since the earliest days, but I leave for a month, and control of my dojo and clan is given away just like that.

Here's the kicker. He's not a regular player. I have no idea when he'll next play; the only reason he was not classified as "inactive" when this patch hit... was that he just happened to have logged in perhaps once or twice that month. According to DE's support, who politely informed me that they will do absolutely nothing about this:

Except they already did, by arbitrarily making somebody else the founder of the clan I founded for myself. They literally already interfered with internal clan matters, and now refuse to fix it, because they don't get involved with internal clan matters.

This leaves me in the position of waiting for him to possibly maybe at some point get around to logging in and promoting me, the founder of my clan, to the status of founder (if he remembers to do it, and feels so inclined)... or for him to be inactive for a solid month (which is not actually likely) in order for DE to get involved in my internal clan matters.

Now, it's entirely possible that he'll stay away just long enough for to trip the 30 day requirement (and for support to process the request before he randomly pops in again). It's also possible that he'll log in and have the decency to hand the keys to my dojo back to me. But the very fact that this tenuous situation exists demonstrates a fundamentally flawed implementation of the new rank - that this could happen at all is ridiculous. I mean good grief, 30 days? This isn't a subscription game. I'm not allowed to take a month away from the game I've been playing for years, without control of my stuff being given to somebody else? What if I'd invited someone less scrupulous? They can just... petition support to be given control of my clan whenever I take a month off?

I count myself lucky that I only invited one vagrant. I shudder to imagine the drama this could have caused if I'd been in the habit of inviting everyone who asked.

The "new rank" has absolute nothing to do with this .... its has been this way since the beginning... the only fault is yours for being inactive .

[Yagamilight123]

hace 2 minutos, MXXVI dijo:

Totally the same here - I loved the dojo feature, because it didn't punish loners like me. It allowed me to take the time to invest in building my own space house. But I think DE kinda forgot that they allowed people to do this - that clans aren't just clans in the traditional MMO guild sense.

And the thing is, the situation could be worse. This friend of mine - we didn't fall out or anything. But we have kinda lost contact. It's an inconvenience, but this situation could be really nasty; if he was a bad person, he could totally just destroy everything, rearrange everything, demote me... whatever. This shouldn't be possible at all.

To be fair , DE only change founder title to other person if someone in the clan tell support that the leader is inactive for a month or more ... so if he is the only member of your clan , it was him the one that told DE about you to take your clan leadership .

[trst]

The problem is that there are clans on the opposite end of this issue where the Warlords quit the game and the clan becomes non-functional due to not having any members with the correct rights assigned.

Not every clan is built on the back of one person and people who've invested into theirs don't want to be forced to leave because everyone with recruiting and/or building rights no longer play.

It's still unfortunate that it allows other clans that aren't in this situation to fall through the cracks even still but the system was made with the intention of fixing a longer-standing issue.

 

Personally I'd like it if DE could introduce a warlord only setting for clans where the current founding Warlord could never be auto replaced and make the state of this setting very clear to other members. That way if you join a clan with a permanent Warlord you're aware of the risk of losing clan functionality should they go inactive.

[Xepthrichros]

Interesting, the previous clan I was in... the founding warlord was offline for way over 30 days and  the remaining 2 active clan members - my friend and myself, received no ownership...

[Wolf]

If the current founding warlord of a clan has been offline for over 30 days you can submit a support ticket to have it transfer for whichever other clan member has been in the clan for the longest.
Instead of writing a support ticket about this problem you have, try waiting for the guy to go offline for 30 days and then writing a support ticket along those lines @MXXVI

I can provide an example of such a ticket if you wish.

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

Yea but it's practically raining mutagen samples just start a new one. 

Lol bad joke I'm actually curious to find out if I'm still leader now..  Can't wait to get my Xbox fixed. 

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

It sounds to me like if you get your position back you had better kick everybody out so you don’t have to worry about it happening again 

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

2 hours ago, Wolf said:

If the current founding warlord of a clan has been offline for over 30 days you can submit a support ticket to have it transfer for whichever other clan member has been in the clan for the longest.

So...  Support won't get involved in clan matters except when they will?

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lollybomb said:

So...  Support won't get involved in clan matters except when they will?

I take it as they don't intend to take personal involvement in clan matters, they enforce a specific set of pre-made guidelines that help to keep clans functioning but that is the extent of their reach. Internal clan struggles such as who deserves the leader role however wouldn't be something they'd involve themselves in, which is to all extents how this situation presents to them, two perceived active players conflicting over present ownership of a clan. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

18 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

I take it as they don't intend to take personal involvement in clan matters, they enforce a specific set of pre-made guidelines that help to keep clans functioning but that is the extent of their reach. Internal clan struggles such as who deserves the leader role however wouldn't be something they'd involve themselves in, which is to all extents how this situation presents to them, two perceived active players conflicting over present ownership of a clan. 

That's the gist of what I have seen from mods on this topic as well.

Tomorrow after this is closed, locked, and removed we'll be able to start the conversation all over again.

I wish there was a way to fix this that didn't involve removing all clan members but it's plenty obvious that DE isn't looking at who contributed to the Dojo/Clan the most as it relates to the Dojo's ownership or progression and the bulk of these arguments are centered on dojo ownership and clan rank.

 

It sucks to have what you worked for stolen out from under you by squatters...but this isn't the first or only game where it's happened.

Best advice: 

Kick everybody or don't take time off.

[Cubewano]

13 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

That's the gist of what I have seen from mods on this topic as well.

Tomorrow after this is closed, locked, and removed we'll be able to start the conversation all over again.

I wish there was a way to fix this that didn't involve removing all clan members but it's plenty obvious that DE isn't looking at who contributed to the Dojo/Clan the most as it relates to the Dojo's ownership or progression and the bulk of these arguments are centered on dojo ownership and clan rank.

 

It sucks to have what you worked for stolen out from under you by squatters...but this isn't the first or only game where it's happened.

Best advice: 

Kick everybody or don't take time off.

Can I ask if anyone else was active in your clan during your absence who could have also been eligible? 

[Heavywpnguinea]

While I feel for you, it was done so that clans won't automatically die if one or two people stop playing the game. There is a lot of churn in the player base so imagine if a 300 person clan is forced to die cause the only people that can recruit or build stuff or whatever stopped playing? Hard to make a system where you can solve that problem but have zero issues like you ran into.

[Rakosta_Kai]

5 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Can I ask if anyone else was active in your clan during your absence who could have also been eligible? 

Did you mean this for @MXXVI ?

If it's meant for me... It's not happened to me here as I don't allow new clan members to remain more than a few days typically...Long enough to get what they need from the research labs and leave.

My understanding is that they award the petitioner though.

 

4 hours ago, Heavywpnguinea said:

There is a lot of churn in the player base so imagine if a 300 person clan is forced to die cause the only people that can recruit or build stuff or whatever stopped playing?

Generally a new guild gets formed instead and the existing members go to it instead...Been happening for the better part of 20 years now.

The big deal in this case tends to be standing, recruiting, and stuff (guild hall, dojo, etc).

Personally, this option shouldn't even be open to Ghost or Shadow clans because the bulk of them are likely self funded by the Founder. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

this reminds me of when my clan leader had to spend 2 weeks and a lot of time contacting support just to get an inactive warlord kicked. I do think it would be best if DE revisited the Warlord system as a whole, as I imagine this can happen on a fairly regular basis. until then, it's best to only give permissions to people who you are fairly certain are always active.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

14 hours ago, MXXVI said:

So I created my own clan. For myself. I wanted a dojo, I didn't actually want to join a clan, or team up with people to make one. So I made my own clan, gathered the resources to build my own dojo, and to research the various weapons. All on my own. For me.

Having done all of this for myself, years later I invited a friend to join my clan because he knew I'd unlocked a weapon he wanted. I let him join. I never promoted him or gave him any permissions; he just had access to research. We didn't really play together that regularly; he just sat in my clan, acquiring the things I had unlocked.

I took a short break from the game recently, and came back to find that DE had implemented a new rank. To my surprise, I found that despite being literally the sole founder of the clan, and the one person who had built and researched literally everything in it, YEARS before anyone else joined, and despite my friend being the lowest rank... he had been declared Founding Warlord.

DE had literally handed the keys to the dojo I made for myself... over to someone who had been the lowest rank. Control of my clan, and my dojo, was just... given to him, simply because I'd been away for a month. One month. I've been playing since the earliest days, but I leave for a month, and control of my dojo and clan is given away just like that.

Here's the kicker. He's not a regular player. I have no idea when he'll next play; the only reason he was not classified as "inactive" when this patch hit... was that he just happened to have logged in perhaps once or twice that month. According to DE's support, who politely informed me that they will do absolutely nothing about this:

Except they already did, by arbitrarily making somebody else the founder of the clan I founded for myself. They literally already interfered with internal clan matters, and now refuse to fix it, because they don't get involved with internal clan matters.

This leaves me in the position of waiting for him to possibly maybe at some point get around to logging in and promoting me, the founder of my clan, to the status of founder (if he remembers to do it, and feels so inclined)... or for him to be inactive for a solid month (which is not actually likely) in order for DE to get involved in my internal clan matters.

Now, it's entirely possible that he'll stay away just long enough for to trip the 30 day requirement (and for support to process the request before he randomly pops in again). It's also possible that he'll log in and have the decency to hand the keys to my dojo back to me. But the very fact that this tenuous situation exists demonstrates a fundamentally flawed implementation of the new rank - that this could happen at all is ridiculous. I mean good grief, 30 days? This isn't a subscription game. I'm not allowed to take a month away from the game I've been playing for years, without control of my stuff being given to somebody else? What if I'd invited someone less scrupulous? They can just... petition support to be given control of my clan whenever I take a month off?

I count myself lucky that I only invited one vagrant. I shudder to imagine the drama this could have caused if I'd been in the habit of inviting everyone who asked.

Yep that sucks. No excuse for DE here.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

13 hours ago, Teliko_Freedman said:

wasn't it if founder doesn't log in for a set amount of time, someone else can take over?

Not sure, I was the third Warlord for my clan and when the founding warlord program came out I was promoted to it because the others hadn't logged on for over 100 days. 

[Lutesque]

Wow.... I'm also a clan founder but I made it a point not to get too attached to my clan when I started letting other players join my Beandom. I think once I've gotten all the Blueprints I need I'l hand the keys over to my 3rd Recruit... he's the most active after me and recently just exceeded my contributions. 

 

Then I'l start over...and maybe I'l form an Alliace with my old clan just for fun... seriously though... that sucks getting overthrown like that

[Cubewano]

10 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Did you mean this for @MXXVI ?

If it's meant for me... It's not happened to me here as I don't allow new clan members to remain more than a few days typically...Long enough to get what they need from the research labs and leave.

My understanding is that they award the petitioner though.

Really anyone who has encountered this system before, guess I just assumed you had as well sorry. 

Just curious how specifically the selection process for swapping leadership works, whether randomly, by the runner up for most activity/highest position, and so forth. While I don't think the core system should be removed, if its runner up selection process could be improved I would be entirely behind that. 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Cubewano