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IllogicalLogic420

I think we all need to ease up on DE and cut them some slack

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I think people are sill reeling from last year not having much content outside of Fortuna, but DE has a chance to really change things around now with Railjack, Jupiter 2.0, Planes of Duviri and more. we're poised to get more content this year than we did last, so people should feel a little more satisfied eventually.

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14 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

I think people are sill reeling from last year not having much content outside of Fortuna, but DE has a chance to really change things around now with Railjack, Jupiter 2.0, Planes of Duviri and more. we're poised to get more content this year than we did last, so people should feel a little more satisfied eventually.

NEVARRRR!!!

You're forgetting how some players go through content...

Image result for never enough meme

 

 

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I think developers made some serious mistakes in the past like making an awesome open map PoE and then leaving it with very little content, making AW and leaving it in such a state... they did churn out content but content which sadly didn't had a lot of gameplay value.

But I think things are moving in a better direction. 

It would seem that Fortuna will be filled with way more content then PoE ever was giving it a much greater value, also AW rework is incoming and Railjack is entirely different gamemod, all in all 2019 seems brighter then 2018 was ,and us pecking them is the reason we are having it 😄

All in all I do hope Warframe will evolve into a more wholesome game.

 

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If DE had been cut slack we wouldn't have gotten that roadmap they showed last devstream. They'd likely just have cruised on, just like the pre-Fortuna devstreams where they were content with showing us K-drives for weeks.

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I think instead of adding "new" (reskinned) content, they need to diversify some things so they don't feel the same.

Lets go over the past 16 months worth of content. Since that's about how long I've been playing.

Plains came out, that was cool - unique at the time.  Sadly never really 'went' anywhere, mainly you can be done with everything in about 10 hours, sure warframe is about playing it over and over with different frames and whatnot, but still - could've been longer/better etc. 

Raids being removed - even though I was only MR 8 when they were removed, and never got to play them, I don't think that was a good call. While I don't have the numbers of how 'many' play conclave, we don't see that removed, so I don't think raids should've been either. But I think they did that and shifted the rewards from raids to eidolons to 'promote' them as an endgame of sorts. (Most endgames though you cannot solo like you can eidolons).

Then we got ESO - which, honestly is a neat concept. Absolutely. Damned. Shame. they didn't take advantage of the writing potential there, I liked the older style (limbo, mirage, harrow etc) quests that gave lore and background to the frame. Khora, Revenant, Baruuk, Garuda - all could've had interesting quests IN whatever area you get them at, like a smallish scavenger hunt, while getting lore using props/areas in that world.  Revenant/Baruuuk/Garuda take place on PoE/Fortuna, so going to Points of Interest there and getting backgrounds on what happened via ordis + some dialogue from the locals on top of it would've been better, than what we got.  As for khora it could've been an opportunity for the "new war" to show that simarius missed something when khora was found in the reward table "I don't remember this being here".  Since suda was infected by a sentient in the past, simarius being vulnerable isn't impossible, so that could've been an explorable angle as well...

 

ESO again, but speaking about mechanics now - one of DE's biggest flaws is not expanding and trying out a variety of things that aren't far-fetched.  Survival, defense, mobile defense, exterminate, salvage, defection, assault are all the same. "Kill this, defend that, defend on the move" etc. The only different one is spy and capture (unless it turns into an exterminate).   I think them fleshing out each type of mission a bit more and adding random encounters, expanding on a unique aspects of each type, adding micro-missions in the endless ones (like survival, defense) making others that aren't endless (like exterminate) possibly be longer or endless.     On that concept, going to the kuva fortress, killing everyone there, then going via archwing to another asteroid and exterminating everything there as well? Etc

Fortuna  - this is probably the biggest sin I can think of. Sure, I cannot deny they put hard work into this. But that objectively doesn't matter (I say this as a mod creator with thousands of hours in modding, a pseudo-developer of sorts). What I mean by that is this. They hyped fortuna as being this unique thing, and it has its moments, but when players started going at it. The new paint started to wear off, and the similarities started to show, fortuna IS a PoE 2.0 with some new paint, and it still has similar problems as PoE did when it came out.

Glitches and bugs with missions that should have multiple workarounds or ways of circumventing those possible bugs (like in PoE killing the enemy that has the supply drop, but they spawned in a pod that makes them invincible and that pod bugged out, so mission failed, which still hasn't been fixed entirely). Which in this instance could be fixed by having the system check if the enemy with the beacon has been killed in the past 20 seconds, if not just drop the beacon (since most players are using 'everything in my view dies instantly' frames, this would work. 

Profit-Taker, hyped up content, but on their stream of them fighting it , they couldn't do it. They failed.  However, the very next day, players were already defeating profit-taker in ~80 seconds . Something that took them almost a year to bring out, defeated in less than 2 mins. And this is supposed to be a form of 'endgame', hardly.   It seems they need some hard-core players on their player testing to tweak the difficulty.  Sure, most players are completing PT in 3-7 minutes, and some not at all, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't find the balance between hardcore veteran "bipod on my kavat" pro and "I just unlocked limbo" noobie. It's completely possible, just requires a LITTLE BIT of forethought. Not to mention that profit taker is based off the old style WoW raid (tank the adds hard DPS the boss, like what you do when carrying guildies whom are undergeared). And, what frames does it utilize, any new ones that aren't used on eidolons? Chroma is still the meta for both eidolons and profit taker, instead of having a few new ones shine brightly, chroma is still on top, you can use other ones, (nyx, mesa etc) but they just won't be nearly as good, and that's bad design.

Then we have Arbitrations! Another potential form of endgame, that - barely has any rewards at start, and no new rewards since, let alone cosmetic rewards. The idea is neat, and they took a band-aid step - a good one, but they didn't flesh it out.   They realize not all warframes or weapons are equal currently, so they did the 300% damage thing, that's neat, sometimes persuading me to use a frame/weapon I haven't touched in awhile (or one I forgot to level for MR fodder) but instead of changing up the mission types to have something different about them (mini-bosses, random events, missions in mission etc) it's just the same thing we've had before, just with one new enemy type and... we start "30 mins" in. So instead of playing for 30 mins or so for enemies to get to 60-80 we start there. woo...     

 

With how they've handled archwing and other game modes that they've added, then abandoned in the past, I'm not excited at all for railjack. I can see some amazing (amazing) concept here.  I can see the ability for us to use our landing crafts, craft missiles, new interiors, fly them like star wars (star wars galaxies to be specific) and have a blast. When heavily damaged, ordis takes over and we go into archwing, pew pewing at enemies or boarding their vessels and killing everyone on board. Then we either capture it (sell it for resources) or destroy it (continue the fight), these could be invasion types that we have 1-2 times a day or even daily alerts.  

What will probably happen though is an on rails shooter that is more of a 'shoot this, hit critical points like in Formordian invasion/event' and then 'defend the ship internally (aka defense). Sure, that's pessimistic and cynical, but that's following their track record, little innovation.

I'd rather they take a focused plan, and rebalance (with the communities help) 6-8 neglected warframes than add 3 new ones that feel 'similar' to ones we already have, or are just straight upgrades.

 

Those of us players whom are harder on Warframe do so for its benefit. Because warframe does have competition, good or not. Destiny and Anthem - even if they aren't great games, are similar to warframe and are doing things a bit differently, they will take players from Warframe that could stay here full time, and all DE has to do is simply flesh stuff out more, build on what they have and make it better, use what they already have and make it unique, interesting to play, etc.  We just want to make the game better. I've seen some games I love die, horrible, slow deaths, because the developers didn't innovate, push the envelope and try something new (actually new, not reskinned or a new idea with some sprinkles on it). 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, FlusteredFerret said:

This is why we do it, right? :laugh:

Image result for white knight meme

 

Remove Cuck Thinking, it's a bad mod for a bad build that's mostly considered meta by fedora tipping sjw-s. :D

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14 hours ago, IllogicalLogic420 said:

Please keep in mind, I admit I could be wrong about some thing's, or even all of this, but this is simply what I have observed and what I have pondered about.

 

Let's face it. Take a moment, detach yourself from the game and it's all-consuming powers, and think objectively.

The fanbase (here comes the hate, I can feel it now) has fostered a new sense of content greed. (The first I've seen, anyway)

What do I mean? I'm glad you maybe asked!

We have a lot of content already. DE has been enormously gracious to keep shelling out content for us.

Yet we never stop asking for more.

More.

More, more, GIVE US MORE DE!!!! *foams at the mouth*

I've noticed some connections.....this "more" we all ask for, could actually be hindering the game and it's progress in ways, which is why we've suffered many obstacles in the road maps for this game.

I could elaborate more, but I don't want to put my full spiel out there, as I want people to remain as open-minded as possible about this.

Hey, stop throwing things at me! Put out that fire! I'm only making a post!

😛

I think if we all exercise some patience, greater thing's will come.

Please keep in mind, I admit I could be wrong about some thing's, or even all of this, but this is simply what I have observed and what I have pondered about.

Warframe is the gift that keeps on giving - this shiny new toy that is more or less "new" to us, so we get carried away, always expecting more...more....FFS DE WE WANT MORE GET TO IT PRONTO OR WE WIL- *user died of content greed rabies*

But seriously, we should back up and ease off DE a little bit, give them some room to breathe. It's like we threw them in a defection mission, deleted the Med Boosters, and Sit-Emote on a wall somewhere watching them suffer. Lol.

 

Anyway, thank you DE, for everything ❤️

 

Please keep in mind, I admit I could be wrong about some thing's, or even all of this, but this is simply what I have observed and what I have pondered about.

Just stop white knighting DE. That kind of posts are extremely bad because with that attitude Warfarme will never evolve. There is a difference between hate and critique. It's a fact that the endgame, challenge and good rewards dont exist right now. As a veteran we dont have a game mode where we just could hop in and have some fun. Like with a randome of our frames and weapons  in a randome mission where we should have to adapt to the situation in a level area 80-100 that keeps rising if we go on and some bosses sprinkled in. Just some kuva, endo and arcanes as rewards. Dont even need to have a high drop rate. Or some cosmetics. In that case we just could experiment with some things and get some things that we all need no matter how long we play.

But this kind of ideas cant be implemented if white knights say "it's fine" or "thanks for existing". DE know that we love them... no need to protect them for ideas. That's the reason for a forum btw...

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5 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Well he did slap himself. He's still right, though, and the devs even mentioned his name in the devstream. They're listening to the community.

I’m not talking about what he said in that specific video. I’m talking about in general. Look at ANY on his video title and you can immediately tell that it’s clickbait. Mentioning him in anyway to try and prove a point is a sure fire way to discredit yourself.

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Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’m not talking about what he said in that specific video. I’m talking about in general. Look at ANY on his video title and you can immediately tell that it’s clickbait. Mentioning him in anyway to try and prove a point is a sure fire way to discredit yourself.

God could we pls stop hating on youtubers? You know what clickbait even is? It's like: WARFRAME IS DEAD? And then talking about a few snipers or so. The title has nothing to do with the topic... THAT is clickbait... and not phrasing fitting titles that cover the topic and let the topic look interesting.

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Just now, DerGreif2 said:

God could we pls stop hating on youtubers? You know what clickbait even is? It's like: WARFRAME IS DEAD? And then talking about a few snipers or so. The title has nothing to do with the topic... THAT is clickbait... and not phrasing fitting titles that cover the topic and let the topic look interesting.

You clearly have never seen a LifeofRio video title. They’re like “Say GOODBYE to Oberon” despite absolutely nothing being done or being planned to be done to Oberon. Clickbait is also staying something in the title that’s so obvious a rock with a learning disability could figure it out. Like “OMG MESA PRIME GODLY”. It’s like no s***. It’s Mesa of course she’s godly.

He’s a crap WF youtuber. He adds nothing and makes up crap just to keep gullible fools watching.

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1 hour ago, Tinklzs said:

Raids being removed - even though I was only MR 8 when they were removed, and never got to play them, I don't think that was a good call. While I don't have the numbers of how 'many' play conclave, we don't see that removed, so I don't think raids should've been either. But I think they did that and shifted the rewards from raids to eidolons to 'promote' them as an endgame of sorts. (Most endgames though you cannot solo like you can eidolons).

Weren't raids removed because they broke often and weren't worth the effort? Conclave doesn't need a complete fix every time, it's just there. Haven't they talked about new raids recently anyway?

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1 minute ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

Weren't raids removed because they broke often and weren't worth the effort? Conclave doesn't need a complete fix every time, it's just there. Haven't they talked about new raids recently anyway?

I wouldn't know, I don't watch their twitch streams very often.

Raids, it would make sense that they were buggy and removed because of that reason I suppose, although we don't have all the info on the matter either. Could've been too few played it, it was 'too hard', only a small percentage ever got the rewards so basically a monopoly on that market. *shrug*. I hope they end up adding them again (at the very least so I can try them), but so that we can have another form of endgame.

56 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

Just stop white knighting DE. That kind of posts are extremely bad because with that attitude Warfarme will never evolve. There is a difference between hate and critique. It's a fact that the endgame, challenge and good rewards dont exist right now. As a veteran we dont have a game mode where we just could hop in and have some fun. Like with a randome of our frames and weapons  in a randome mission where we should have to adapt to the situation in a level area 80-100 that keeps rising if we go on and some bosses sprinkled in. Just some kuva, endo and arcanes as rewards. Dont even need to have a high drop rate. Or some cosmetics. In that case we just could experiment with some things and get some things that we all need no matter how long we play.

But this kind of ideas cant be implemented if white knights say "it's fine" or "thanks for existing". DE know that we love them... no need to protect them for ideas. That's the reason for a forum btw...

I think that warframe could have multiple types of endgames, rather than just 'eidolons/raids = endgame, sucks for the rest of you'.  I think we could have archwing/exterminate (fly from asteroid to asteroid) endgame, along with survival with minibosses/random events, defense etc. However, it will take them from other 'projects' and they might not see it as worthwhile. Not to mention I would change how scaling works so you don't need meta level frames/weapons to stay in an endless mission for more than 1-2 hours. (Like some do 5+ hour survival missions with saryn/Ivara, to me that is boring. Not to mention AI doesn't change as you get to higher levels. AI should change in brackets of 5-20, 25-40, 45-80, 80-160, 170+ etc.

Each adding or further building on mechanics that the others have. Like in Killing Floor 2, how on normal/hard flesh pounds (think body builders with drills as hands) will just casual walk and struct their stuff, on Suicidal + they will be enraged when they spawn, giving you a couple of seconds (10 at most) to be ready or die.

I think many vets are bored because it's the same enemies, the same mechanics / AI. As long as you can out DPS or out tank something you're fine, that's boring, add some diversity that could spice things up and keep players on their toes.  But make it balanced so you can do this in a squad, a pub or even solo. (But not make it so easy that with 2+ more players it's a faceroll).

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Sigh. I saw enough negativity that I don't want to respond, but I will.

White knight? No, grow up.

Idk why I expected a civil discussion. I guess after all these years I'm still a naive hopeful.

Anyway, I'm going to skim these comments again later. I just woke up, I don't want to start my day on the wrong side of the bed because of some immature people being immature.

To everyone who kept thing's civil and respectful, kudos, you're doing thing's right.

Here's a tip: Just because someone takes a stance on something, or defends something, doesn't make them a white knight. But you throwing around the term carelessly makes you.......actually, no, I'd rather not risk getting banned.

But hey, it's 2019, this is the trend: point fingers, act immature, abandon all logic and reason, never think before you speak, act on emotion, ...... the list of insanity goes on.

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Well...you tried... :wink:

As I said, I applaud your stance on this matter. Unfortunately there are just too many who either don't have a clue about game development in general, or more specifically the processes that underpin Warframe, or who don't care and think DE should just toss everything in the trash and make a new game that appeals specifically to them.

This is an argument that can't be won.

They can't be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with, they don't feel pity or remorse...and they absolutely will not stop... :surprised:

 

(until they get challenging endgame content)

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34 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Well...you tried... :wink:

As I said, I applaud your stance on this matter. Unfortunately there are just too many who either don't have a clue about game development in general, or more specifically the processes that underpin Warframe, or who don't care and think DE should just toss everything in the trash and make a new game that appeals specifically to them.

This is an argument that can't be won.

They can't be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with, they don't feel pity or remorse...and they absolutely will not stop... :surprised:

 

(until they get challenging endgame content)

Love that reference, one of the comments here talking about DE basically reskinning content and finishing development in a couple of weeks made me roll my eyes. 

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2 hours ago, IllogicalLogic420 said:

White knight? No, grow up. 

Yes. Thats what your OP post was about. Nothing how to improve the game just saying that other should shut up because "DE is trying all they can". YOU need to understand the reasons why forums exists. Its not to hat pet the devs... You can google what white knighting is and THEN read your posts. I just get angry when people say "its fine" when a lot of things need to improve and all know it... but they STILL defend the devs even when the devs also see the problems... its not healthy and dont bring anything new for the players or information for the devs.

That is the thing that I really dont understand...

 

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4 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

Yes. Thats what your OP post was about. Nothing how to improve the game just saying that other should shut up because "DE is trying all they can". YOU need to understand the reasons why forums exists. Its not to hat pet the devs... You can google what white knighting is and THEN read your posts. I just get angry when people say "its fine" when a lot of things need to improve and all know it... but they STILL defend the devs even when the devs also see the problems... its not healthy and dont bring anything new for the players or information for the devs.

That is the thing that I really dont understand...

 

COngratulations on completely not understanding anything I said. You're either trolling, or have a mental illness. Not worthy of a response from me any further.

If you have a mental illness, I'll be more compassionate and understanding.

 

18 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Yeah, this.


Lol, another person who clearly doesn't understand what discussions are. A full elaboration isn't needed initially.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Welp, might as well hop on board "fellow white knights, unite our upvotes to overcome non-white-knights!" hahahahahaha

On a serious note, this was mostly a decent discussion, aside from the ignorant, immature people who decided to muck up thing's here with their intentional, or non-intentional, nonsense.

The people who had something of value to contribute pretty much did a good job, and I guess that all that's left for me to say is: I guess my mindset is still "we all need to slow down" and "appreciate what we already have".

 

have a good day and life everyone ❤️

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37 minutes ago, IllogicalLogic420 said:

A full elaboration isn't needed initially.

Needed? Maybe not depending on the topic (note: this is not one of those topics).

Useful for actually making your side look credible? HELL YES IT IS NEEDED.

I can't blame people for not taking you seriously when you go so far onto the emotional side of argumentation and using a caricature of the contrary side to represent all those who would disagree with you, while simultaneously shooting wild with the "content greed" call-out which, SPOILER ALERT, people don't take kindly to even those who are neutral to the argument at hand.

If you actually want a discussion, represent the counter argument with actual respect rather than throwing thinly veiled insults and MAYBE people will actually be willing to give you the time of day rather than pointing and laughing, as well they should.

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31 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Needed? Maybe not depending on the topic (note: this is not one of those topics).

Useful for actually making your side look credible? HELL YES IT IS NEEDED.

I can't blame people for not taking you seriously when you go so far onto the emotional side of argumentation and using a caricature of the contrary side to represent all those who would disagree with you, while simultaneously shooting wild with the "content greed" call-out which, SPOILER ALERT, people don't take kindly to even those who are neutral to the argument at hand.

If you actually want a discussion, represent the counter argument with actual respect rather than throwing thinly veiled insults and MAYBE people will actually be willing to give you the time of day rather than pointing and laughing, as well they should.

-It's never needed. Providing a full elaboration hasn't shown to foster fully open minded discussions. Especially when, I can elaborate further at any time.

- I can blame them, as everyone should blame them. Emotional? (Pathos) No. I was being objective and open minded. And oh, so comedy is a bad thing now? No. Get over yourself.

- That's what I did, it's not my fault everyone so is easily offended by everything anymore. Maybe people should toughen up and understand that not everything is oh-so-serious. And that's weird, plenty here gave this the time of day. Desperately grasping at straws much to try and beat someone down in a literary battle? Seems like it.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Welp, time to abandon thread. And people wonder why I'm sick of humanity. Say what you will. See if I care lmfao

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3 minutes ago, IllogicalLogic420 said:

Welp, time to abandon thread

Don't let the E-door hit you on the way out.

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