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LightZodiac

Do the devs really listen to their community?

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1 minute ago, LightZodiac said:

OK so rework the way mods are calculated on our weapons so base damage is higher and end damage is lower, lowering the difference between meta builds and whatever it is the casuals are doing, have enemies have flat armor values so EHP of enemies doesn't skyrocket, have enemies with different resistances to our abilities so we can't simply cheeze every single mission type, instead of bosses relying on immunities to prolong the fight in really annoying way have them be immune to part of the buffed damage...

Oh wait this includes certain nerfs so players can't feel like gods and just walk through levels while enemies just die around them now we can't have that can we?

 

but you cant just throw it to the game at large, people inflicted by the suck cost fallacy will go insane.

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33 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Sometimes I wish they didn't listen to the community..

For real. Every so often I see people asking the enemy levels to be racked up even though that's literally the worst possible way to implement 'endgame'.

People tend to ask for things without thinking of all the design concerns.

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1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

If you want to look at devs who listen to everything that their fans want... look to Sonic team. Their fanbase is infamously divided. It is one of the few fanbases that I would actually call toxic, not because of all the stuff people usually point to but because there's so many camps all demanding mutually exclusive things in the games.

Well devs should listen to everything their fans say... but they shouldn't just give fans what they ask.

"Don't give people what they want, give them what they need"

Well what I want is to kill enemies in seconds (that's why I level my mods and everything) but what I really need is for that boss to give me a fight 🙂

Even a linear single player game has difficulty setting, some players like to play on easy some on hard... some like to play it on easy first then on second walkthrough they switch on hard.

We already have Sanctuary Onslaught and Elite Sanctuary Onslaught (which are shamelessly taken over by people who level their gear) if you make content in different difficulty and have same drops just better chances of better drop in higher difficulty you are not excluding anyone. Now there are some serious issues with the way warframe scales (don't want to go into too much detail on it) but with some changes you can enable everyone to play all content, and let people chose their own difficulty.

Like why not easy/medium/hard Tridolons? When I was a beginner I sure as heck would like the option to fight easier version of them, now I would like to face tougher version of them.

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10 minutes ago, Pr1A said:

For real. Every so often I see people asking the enemy levels to be racked up even though that's literally the worst possible way to implement 'endgame'.

Thats why any "endgame" content needs to have its own separate mode.

Both so that "elite" level players have something challenging and also to prevent them crapping all over regular content and ruining the game for normal players.

If we're sticking with PvE, I would envisage something similar to the Eidolons or Profit-Taker, only harder (obviously) and locked behind some sort of minimum requirements like the Arbitrations are. Wouldn't even mind if they created a new boss specifically for this.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

 

but you cant just throw it to the game at large, people inflicted by the suck cost fallacy will go insane.

I wouldn't. I just hope it doesn't take too much time.

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10 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Thats why any "endgame" content needs to have its own separate mode.

Both so that "elite" level players have something challenging and also to prevent them crapping all over regular content and ruining the game for normal players.

If we're sticking with PvE, I would envisage something similar to the Eidolons or Profit-Taker, only harder (obviously) and locked behind some sort of minimum requirements like the Arbitrations are. Wouldn't even mind if they created a new boss specifically for this.

 

 

Well I really wouldn't use the "elite" term... I just like making strong builds. I don't want to make game more difficult for beginners, I don't want to make it more difficult for casuals I sure as heck want to have a place where my builds are put to the test and that place shouldn't have +300% ability strength, but something like - damage, -strength, -range...

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52 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Ah, classic forum garbage.

Hey, if you want a challenge try playing with no hands. Your feet are ready.

Hey this sounds toxic... maybe work on your "people's skills".

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1 hour ago, Helch0rn said:

define challenging.

even the hardest mission can be cheesed with the right frame, thus eleminating all challenge. And given the vast amount of Frames, Weapons and builds we have, there will always be some way to cheese content.

here is a tip: if you want challenge try do do high level missions without a meta build, try to run with only half of the mods or none at all instead of crying that there is nothing that can challenge you uber-meta cheese

This sounds toxic too. By the way I don't really use cheese builds, game is too easy even without them.

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1 hour ago, RX-3DR said:

How about you give examples of this "challenging endgame" you speak that every "veteran" agrees on. If you can't devise this mythical game mode that everyone apparently wants, then whatever they implement is going to leave a group complaining that they didn't get what they wanted.

It's easy to play this game, "Hey DE we need free platinum everyday! Why is there no free Platinum? Dev's don't listen to veterans!". You have to understand the first thing about feedback, not all feedback must be followed.

Could you please point out the part of my post where I said that everyone wants this?

I'l wait.

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1 minute ago, LightZodiac said:

Hey this sounds toxic... maybe work on your "people's skills".

It's a fair response to that sort of comment. 

"Handicap yourself" is not a substitute for a challenging content, and "play with your feet" is an easy extrapolation. It's literally the same thing, a handicap.

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"Vets" want challenge just to find a way to overcome and bypass it...

Try to find a way to nerf existing mods in a new challenge instead of removing them (some or all) just to raise the already existing challenge.

Want new challenging missions but they don't like the same rewards they get from those instead of just take the pleasure of challenge itself.
When DE introduces new harder enemies and also nerfs that META ability or weapon that almost melts any enemy, half the forum cries out about it but at the same time they still complain about the endgame difficulty.

Difficulty modes are added all the time in the game, still "vets" always find a way to ultimately "cheese" it (more or less). I don't think its bad. The bad thing would be to introduce an "impossible" mission where, whatever we players do or try will lead to failure, then I am sure another kind of complain will start. Is that what a really vet asks for? Something impossible even for him? 

I think DE is trying to listen to all of us. Its so hard to please everyone, in a game where gamers are complaining even for that free stuff they are giving us regularly... we will find something to complain about, we always do.

On the other hand, start a new thread and give specific suggestions, I 'm sure DE will take a look and keep in mind if something is worth adding in the future (as is or with some changes).

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another thread rhino-charging towards a lock..I'm just gonna wait for this "Wolf of Saturn Six" thing to see what it brings. that seems like our best shot for now.

 

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3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

It's a fair response to that sort of comment. 

"Handicap yourself" is not a substitute for a challenging content, and "play with your feet" is an easy extrapolation. It's literally the same thing, a handicap.

I don't even use cheeze frames for game content... in fact I leave the sortie if there is frame in game which will easily cheeze it (like Limbo in Grineer mobile defense).

I enjoy when my build capabilities are put to the test, like there was a 3rd sortie, Ambulas boss with elemental enhancements and that felt so amazing. You can't really build a weapon with a lot of punch using only physical damage, you can't count on teammates equipping CP's to strip all that armor, it's not something which you have to farm X times, it's not something that will make people start some stupid meta around it felt really great and there was a reward for it 🙂

I want that kind of thing once per day 🙂

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22 minutes ago, LightZodiac said:

Could you please point out the part of my post where I said that everyone wants this?

I'l wait.

 

1 hour ago, LightZodiac said:

I have a certain problem with this game, lack of challenging content and lack of an actual endgame (challenging endgame would be really nice), the thing is I googled a bit and I can see that a lot of players had been asking for the same thing for quite some time now and yet we still don't have either of those in the game.

Then why bring up "lots of players asking for the same thing" as a point? You'll never be able to satisfy the "veterans" that you talk about simply because it's just vague group being tagged on people with an almost arbitrary criteria. All the people constantly asking for "challenging endgame" have varied views on what it is, if DE were to randomly pluck one out of the bunch and implement it, you're going to see a bunch of people who were pestering for "challenging endgame" complaining that it's not the "challenging endgame" that they wanted, and thus, they don't listen to them.

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the problem is not lack of challenge, but lack of rewarding challenge

if you stay, for example, in survival mission it's become challenging enough, but is there a reason to do that? I would say no

warframe desperately needs scaling rewards, but developers strongly against it, for some reason

let's just remember situation with kuva endless mission, people wanted some endless mode with scaling kuva, but instead we got something inferior to existing missions in terms of "rewardability"

in a last devstream Scott did say something about making mission more challenging, but he didn't said anything about scaling rewards, people assume it would scale, but I do doubt it

we'll see, we got our "universal vacuum" in some perverted form, probably we'll get scaling rewards also

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I would love to play some awesome raids in an epic warframe setting, if they are done perfectly and with multiple difficulties of course.😀

Raids make some of the best endgame imaginable in my opinion.😉

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)Nek_Food said:

"Vets" want challenge just to find a way to overcome and bypass it...

Try to find a way to nerf existing mods in a new challenge instead of removing them (some or all) just to raise the already existing challenge.

Want new challenging missions but they don't like the same rewards they get from those instead of just take the pleasure of challenge itself.
When DE introduces new harder enemies and also nerfs that META ability or weapon that almost melts any enemy, half the forum cries out about it but at the same time they still complain about the endgame difficulty.

Difficulty modes are added all the time in the game, still "vets" always find a way to ultimately "cheese" it (more or less). I don't think its bad. The bad thing would be to introduce an "impossible" mission where, whatever we players do or try will lead to failure, then I am sure another kind of complain will start. Is that what a really vet asks for? Something impossible even for him? 

I think DE is trying to listen to all of us. Its so hard to please everyone, in a game where gamers are complaining even for that free stuff they are giving us regularly... we will find something to complain about, we always do.

On the other hand, start a new thread and give specific suggestions, I 'm sure DE will take a look and keep in mind if something is worth adding in the future (as is or with some changes).

Well if I have to "farm" a certain mission then yeah I'm probably going to cheese it myself.

However when I don't have to farm... I play Tridolon in pug's, much more interesting then in recruited teams I have to min-max things to be able to do as much things as I can myself. Usually I play Trinity (and hope there is Volt in the team) or Volt (and hope there is Trinity in team). I used to play ESO with all kinds of builds, but now I get 2/3 leechers as teammates... it's not fun for me to play solo. Currently I'm playing with all sorts of builds Orb hunts, I did farm it with Chroma until I got that 1% drop chance mod, but now I have to play like 5 of them for daily standing... so no real reason to cheeze them.

I want a challenge which I can't cheese and yeah I'm actually going to take a time to write some suggestions, I have a couple of good ones.

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7 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

 

Then why bring up "lots of players asking for the same thing" as a point? You'll never be able to satisfy the "veterans" that you talk about simply because it's just vague group being tagged on people with an almost arbitrary criteria. All the people constantly asking for "challenging endgame" have varied views on what it is, if DE were to randomly pluck one out of the bunch and implement it, you're going to see a bunch of people who were pestering for "challenging endgame" complaining that it's not the "challenging endgame" that they wanted, and thus, they don't listen to them.

A lot of warframe players is fundamentally different then all warframe players, I'd suggest you do not use such childish tactics if you want to be taken seriously.

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2 hours ago, LightZodiac said:

Snip

Watch this video:

The day you see another Game developer doing this (Both a DevStream and the white board thingy) let me know.

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They listen to the community constantly. They just don't make all their choices based on what they hear. They take what they hear into consideration while they continue doing the sort of things they know they want.

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13 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

The day you see another Game developer doing this (Both a DevStream and the white board thingy) let me know.

That's all just great but I remember this devstream where they talked about "elite" alerts and it kinda ended up as poo.

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Anyways it is personal opinion that DE focuses on that which makes them money, which is cosmetics and new content aimed at the newer players who are likely to buy plat to gain faster access to it all.

I am quite certain that warframe will never see the endgame i expect of it. But im kind of old school mmo in what i think endgame should be..

Long, punishing, and requiring each team member to not only know what they are doing in their role but able to individually manage on their own as needed.

In warframe all we get is the better you cheese the better you do!

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1 hour ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Watch this video:

The day you see another Game developer doing this (Both a DevStream and the white board thingy) let me know.

Have to admit I love how haphazard and goofy these streams can get sometimes.

Also love that they are happy to take ideas directly from viewers during the stream.

Whether they manage to stick to the whiteboard roadmap is another thing, but at least they make the effort to include player feedback with their own ideas.

 

Also to people complaining about "lack of challenge / endgame content" - just watch this video from minute 43 onwards, to around minute 47. Scott does a very good job explaining why its so difficult to implement and why there is no single easy solution.

 

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