Auction house system?

[Vox_Preliator]

7 minutes ago, llls1cKb0ylll said:

Pretty sure a poll would be manipulated from those against it, a system that would benefit all the players and not a minority, it's pretty much common sense that would be welcomed for most of the players.

Wait, a mere poll would absolutely be subject to manipulation, but AN AUCTION HOUSE would be totally fine and not manipulated, exploited, and botted to the detriment of all players at all?

[Oreades]

28 minutes ago, Cyandrel said:

I guess the Diablo 3 AH fiasco was long enough ago that people forgot it happened.

DE probably hasn't though, which is why this notion will never gain traction where it matters.

Every time, every single time a marketplace/auction house comes up someone from the peanut gallery brings up the D3 AH fiasco without understanding why it was a fiasco.

The D3 Auction house wasn't a fiasco because the auction house mechanic ruined D3 it was a fiasco because Blizzard went out of their way to ruin their own game to drive people to the RMT auction house. They hobbled their own product to make more money because they skimmed off the top of every RMT trade. It was their way of shoving microtransactions into D3 and saying "we didn't do it, it's the players doing it". 

No one seems to bother recalling the fact that when they removed the Auction house they also adjusted all the drop tables across the board so they didn't suck anymore because it was those drop tables that where the actual problem. So playing the game actually felt rewarding and you didn't have to slog your way to the AH because NOTHING DROPPED. All while blaming the Auction house for all of the woes that they themselves bore sole responsibility for. If they had not hobbled the drop rates in D3 to force people into the AH because it was practically the only way to get the gear you needed then the AH would have been fine. 

The auction house didn't ruin D3, Blizzard ruined D3 in an attempt to drive people to the AH, then scapegoated the AH when their little plan backfired on them. So can we please stop bringing up the D3 auction house as an example of how Auction houses are bad because that isn't what it is, it's an example of how companies can be bad.

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Oreades

[rune_me]

1 minute ago, Dark_Lugia said:

I would be one of the first players to sell every thing for 1-5plat ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
and i think i won´t be the only one. Since it´s faster and has no interactions.
For players who have much stuff lieing around this would be better since you sell more but for a less.
For new players this would be pretty bad since they won´t get enough for slots/stuff they want, since they don´t have much to offer.
This would decrease prices very fast and don´t think most of the players would want that.

But decreasing prices are good for the consumers, yes? The current system is rigged in favor of the merchant. And even though I have made tens of thousands of plat selling in Warframe, I can't really approve of it. An auction house would benefit the buyer, but obviously the sellers would resist it since it makes it more difficult to overcharge,

[llls1cKb0ylll]

hace 6 minutos, Vox_Preliator dijo:

Wait, a mere poll would absolutely be subject to manipulation, but AN AUCTION HOUSE would be totally fine and not manipulated, exploited, and botted to the detriment of all players at all?

Theres ways to counter that, as I said before, for example, captchas and/or 2FA before posting/buying, and I'm not even a developer nor ingeneer.

[SordidDreams]

14 minutes ago, Dark_Lugia said:

I would be one of the first players to sell every thing for 1-5plat ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
and i think i won´t be the only one. Since it´s faster and has no interactions.
For players who have much stuff lieing around this would be better since you sell more but for a less.
For new players this would be pretty bad since they won´t get enough for slots/stuff they want, since they don´t have much to offer.
This would decrease prices very fast and don´t think most of the players would want that.

That could be solved with limitations on trading. Currently prices aren't bottoming out simply because people can't be bothered to trade cheap stuff, going to the dojo to trade is a hassle not worth doing for a couple plat to most people. And yeah, if you just let people put up all their trash mods for sale for 1p each, prices will bottom out instantly. So, y'know, don't do that. There's already a limit on the number of trades you can make per day so that players don't trade too much, so simply expand on that. You could for example make it so that you can't trade more than one item of each type per day. Or whatever. Strict restrictions like that could be used to make sure people only put up their most valuable items for sale, preventing an oversupply and price crash of cheap ones.

11 minutes ago, rune_me said:

But decreasing prices are good for the consumers, yes? The current system is rigged in favor of the merchant. And even though I have made tens of thousands of plat selling in Warframe, I can't really approve of it. An auction house would benefit the buyer, but obviously the sellers would resist it since it makes it more difficult to overcharge,

True, but WF is a game, which is supposed to provide enjoyment. Finding upgrades yourself provides more enjoyment than buying them. That's part of why the Diablo 3 auction house was such a disaster, Blizzard had to make the drop rates ridiculously low to prevent prices from bottoming out, and as a result you could never find anything yourself, all you ever did was farm gold to buy stuff in the AH, and it was very boring as a result. You don't want that. I'm all in favor of an AH in WF, but it needs to be built with restrictions and limitations to prevent oversupply and price crash. Since players only need 1 or 2 of each item but keep finding more and more continuously, the AH needs to be built in such a way that players simply won't bother or won't be able to put the extra copies up for sale.

Edited March 5, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Dark_Lugia]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb rune_me:

But decreasing prices are good for the consumers, yes? The current system is rigged in favor of the merchant. And even though I have made tens of thousands of plat selling in Warframe, I can't really approve of it. An auction house would benefit the buyer, but obviously the sellers would resist it since it makes it more difficult to overcharge,

But at some point everyone want to be the seller to get more slots for all the frames and for more then 3 weapons, there are already a lot of new player which have problems selling stuff since they don´t have anything of value. And this problem will become an even bigger one imo.

[llls1cKb0ylll]

hace 15 minutos, Dark_Lugia dijo:

I would be one of the first players to sell every thing for 1-5plat ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
and i think i won´t be the only one. Since it´s faster and has no interactions.
For players who have much stuff lieing around this would be better since you sell more but for a less.
For new players this would be pretty bad since they won´t get enough for slots/stuff they want, since they don´t have much to offer.
This would decrease prices very fast and don´t think most of the players would want that.

On PC for example, theres usually over 30k people playing only on steam, you don't have to post an item for 5p that is worth way more in orther to sell it fast, you can post it at an average price and you prolly gonna sell it fast if it has high/normal demmand, if you want to sell it at 1p, go for it, it's prolly gonna sell in seconds and be reposted at a higher price or well the next in the line gonna sell fast too, that's just how it works on warframe.market atm, even there you have statics so you can check the average price of every item before posting/buying.

Edited March 5, 2019 by llls1cKb0ylll

[beol]

7 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Wait, a mere poll would absolutely be subject to manipulation, but AN AUCTION HOUSE would be totally fine and not manipulated, exploited, and botted to the detriment of all players at all?

Wait, an auction house, which could track actual transactions and ensure that things listed for a given price are actually sold when that price was met, and could show how long overpriced things have sat unbought, and could provide price history, would be subject to manipulation, but A TRADE CHAT where people have no pricing data within the game itself, but there are third party websites where people can list completely unverified and unenforced prices, and bots that scrape advertised price data, but there's a cartel of people getting even those bots banned when they benefit the public, while running their own private bots, is totally fine and not currently being manipulated, exploited and botted to the detriment of players at all? 

[markus230]

An auction house in Warframe would lead to everything being worthless. You can farm an infinite amount of items, with very few exceptions (Primed Chamber). So people would just dump huge amounts of items at once, and then undercut each other until everything reaches the price of 1 plat. It always happens. In every AH.

And Warframe has no rarity tiers (like no Uncommon/Rare/Legendary/Epic versions of gear), so the grind is really, really simple and easy (that is comparing it to some MMOs where there are really rare items, the only thing comparable to that in Warframe are Rivens) when it comes to Prime parts.

[llls1cKb0ylll]

hace 2 minutos, Dark_Lugia dijo:

But at some point everyone want to be the seller to get more slots for all the frames and for more then 3 weapons, there are already a lot of new player which have problems selling stuff since they don´t have anything of value. And this problem will become an even bigger one imo.

Getting relics, poping em for prime parts and selling those parts isn't that hard, uncommon/rare parts can sell from 10p up to 100p or even more if you get a vaulted part from other players, just gotta check wheres the best mission to farm relics that you have avaliable or team up in recruiting/clan/alliance chat or friends for farming em, that's how I made most of my plat leveling up.

[SordidDreams]

1 minute ago, markus230 said:

An auction house in Warframe would lead to everything being worthless. You can farm an infinite amount of items, with very few exceptions (Primed Chamber). So people would just dump huge amounts of items at once, and then undercut each other until everything reaches the price of 1 plat. It always happens. In every AH.

In every badly designed AH. Simply impose restrictions on how many items players can put up for sale at once, boom, problem solved. Nobody's going to waste precious AH slots on 1p mods when they could be selling 50p syndicate weapons or whatever.

[Fellas92]

I'm pretty certain that the current drama with the semlar website only proves that we need some sort of riven market/auction. Simple proof is the "riven dealers"/scammers who wan't to hide all of the info for the normal prices and let their greed take over everything.

A simple riven auction wouldn't ruin the economy. You want something you like ? Big or buy it out, pretty simple. This way new players at least can see the prices of the merchandise and have a less chance to be scammed by the scum of the trade.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Fellas92

[Dark_Lugia]

vor 1 Minute schrieb llls1cKb0ylll:

Getting relics, poping em for prime parts and selling those parts isn't that hard, uncommon/rare parts can sell from 10p up to 100p or even more if you get a vaulted part from other players, just gotta check wheres the best mission to farm relics that you have avaliable or team up in recruiting/clan/alliance chat or friends for farming em, that's how I made most of my plat leveling up.

and then imagine getting only 1-5 plat. happy grinding for 350+ weapon slot, 60+ warframe slots, archwingslot, archgun, archmelee, sentinals, stasis slot etc.

[WhiteMarker]

2 minutes ago, Fellas92 said:

drama with the semlar website

I don't know what drama you are talking about, but if there is any then it's the fault of these sites and not DE's.

2 minutes ago, Fellas92 said:

A simple riven auction wouldn't ruin the economy. You want something you like ? Big or buy it out, pretty simple. This way new players at least can see the prices of the merchandise and have a less chance to be scammed by the scum of the trade.

So if someone wants a riven, he can straight up buy it for 20k plat. And this will show the new players that this particular riven goes for 20k?
Yeah... no... that's quite the flawed logic.

And again: There is no set price for anything in the game.
If you are willing to pay the price without getting further information (if someone sells it for less), then it's a legit trade. There is no real scamming possible in the game. It's only possible if people don't think before doing stuff, or if people don't follow the rules (trade for promises...)

[Fellas92]

10 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

And again: There is no set price for anything in the game.

That's the point of an auction house.

 

10 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

So if someone wants a riven, he can straight up buy it for 20k plat. And this will show the new players that this particular riven goes for 20k?
Yeah... no... that's quite the flawed logic.

Yeaaaah ignore the fact that you'll find 500 more similar rivens which will be affordable.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Fellas92

[Jarriaga]

While I don't like the idea of an auction house, I am open to any alternative just to spite those guys in the riven dealer clan after what they did.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Jarriaga

[llls1cKb0ylll]

hace 13 minutos, SordidDreams dijo:

That could be solved with limitations on trading. Currently prices aren't bottoming out simply because people can't be bothered to trade cheap stuff, going to the dojo to trade is a hassle not worth doing for a couple plat to most people. And yeah, if you just let people put up all their trash mods for sale for 1p each, prices will bottom out instantly. So, y'know, don't do that. There's already a limit on the number of trades you can make per day so that players don't trade too much, so simply expand on that. You could for example make it so that you can't trade more than one item of each type per day. Or whatever. Strict restrictions like that could be used to make sure people only put up their most valuable items for sale, preventing an oversupply and price crash of cheap ones.

True, but WF is a game, which is supposed to provide enjoyment. Finding upgrades yourself provides more enjoyment than buying them. That's part of why the Diablo 3 auction house was such a disaster, Blizzard had to make the drop rates ridiculously low to prevent prices from bottoming out, and as a result you could never find anything yourself, all you ever did was farm gold to buy stuff in the AH, and it was very boring as a result. You don't want that. I'm all in favor of an AH in WF, but it needs to be built with restrictions and limitations to prevent oversupply and price crash. Since players only need 1 or 2 of each item but keep finding more and more continuously, the AH needs to be built in such a way that players simply won't bother or won't be able to put the extra copies up for sale.

Totally agree, theres has to be a max post per day attached to mastery rank just like ammount of trades per day so people would only post the most valuable stuff they have for sale and prices won't bottom, even a low mastery rank/junction/quest/time in missions lock for the systyem could be handy just to prevent mules/2nd accounts posts.

If DE ever makes it, it has to be well planned from start.

[markus230]

14 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

In every badly designed AH. Simply impose restrictions on how many items players can put up for sale at once, boom, problem solved. Nobody's going to waste precious AH slots on 1p mods when they could be selling 50p syndicate weapons or whatever.

People will still undercut each other. Prices won't hit the floor as fast, but that doesn't solve the problem. As long as you have an infinite source of items, AH will never work.

If someone opens up AH screen and sees 10k items lets say. And all of them are 200p, except one that is 199. Guess what will sell faster? If you don't undercut, the item that you want to sell will get shoved among thousands of others of the same price and the chance that you will be the one to actually sell their item is incredibly low. Try to sell an item on Steam market without undercutting, there is a pretty good chance that the item won't get sold for weeks, lower the price by 0.01€ and your item is sold instantly, if you put additional restrictions in place, people will undercut even more since they don't want to waste their limited AH space on items that won't sell for weeks or months, possibly not at all.

That's the biggest problem with AH, without undercutting selling anything is unlikely if there are thousands of the same item being sold at the same time. Do you think anybody's going to get out of their way and scroll through the list to not buy the first item that pops up with the lowest price? Limitations will only increase undercutting

Edited March 5, 2019 by markus230

[llls1cKb0ylll]

hace 8 minutos, Dark_Lugia dijo:

and then imagine getting only 1-5 plat. happy grinding for 350+ weapon slot, 60+ warframe slots, archwingslot, archgun, archmelee, sentinals, stasis slot etc.

that's how I started getting my first plat, selling cheap parts/mods untill I started getting more uncommon/rare parts from relics and selling mostly sets, old players usually rather sell those cheap parts for ducats and buy stuff from baro that can sell for more so theres a market share for everybody.

If you wanna sell cheap, go ahead, you prolly gonna sell fast and the next in the line gonna sell that item for more until it reaches an average price, just how warframe.market works.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Oh god another AH thread i assume people already pulled up the quotes of DE saying no to the idea? I swear these are as bad as Battle royal threads

[Dark_Lugia]

vor 1 Minute schrieb llls1cKb0ylll:

that's how I started getting my first plat, selling cheap parts/mods untill I started getting more uncommon/rare parts from relics and selling mostly sets, old players usually rather sell those cheap parts for ducats and buy stuff from baro that can sell for more so theres a market share for everybody.

If you wanna sell cheap, go ahead, you prolly gonna sell fast and the next in the line gonna sell that item for more until it reaches an average price, just how warframe.market works.

But in an AH noone will buy your 10pl part if he can have it for 1pl.
Same goes for warframe market. you only buy it for a higher price if the lower one doesn´t answer and with an automatic system, the lower one always wins.

[SordidDreams]

25 minutes ago, llls1cKb0ylll said:

Totally agree, theres has to be a max post per day attached to mastery rank just like ammount of trades per day so people would only post the most valuable stuff they have for sale and prices won't bottom, even a low mastery rank/junction/quest/time in missions lock for the systyem could be handy just to prevent mules/2nd accounts posts.

If DE ever makes it, it has to be well planned from start.

Realistically, I doubt DE will ever make it. It's too radical a change with a result that is difficult to predict and impossible to test in advance.

If they do ever muster up the courage, though, yeah, strict limitations are necessary. Currently the game prevents oversupply and price crash of items by requiring a trip to the dojo for each trade, which is a hassle most people can't be bothered to go through for the sake of earning 1 or 2p. And while that technically works, I feel that there must be better ways of regulating a game economy than by annoying players.

23 minutes ago, markus230 said:

People will still undercut each other. Prices won't hit the floor as fast, but that doesn't solve the problem. As long as you have an infinite source of items, AH will never work.

You say that, but you also say this:

23 minutes ago, markus230 said:

Try to sell an item on Steam market without undercutting, there is a pretty good chance that the item won't get sold for weeks, lower the price by 0.01€ and your item is sold instantly,

AFAIK items on the Steam market aren't bottoming out in price despite this undercutting. So you really just refuted your own point there. I mean, yeah, undercutting will happen. It happens in any market that's not regulated by imposing prices. Undercutting is natural and good, that's how supply and demand works to determine price.

23 minutes ago, markus230 said:

If you don't undercut, the item that you want to sell will get shoved among thousands of others of the same price and the chance that you will be the one to actually sell their item is incredibly low.

That's the biggest problem with AH, without undercutting selling anything is unlikely if there are thousands of the same item being sold at the same time. Do you think anybody's going to get out of their way and scroll through the list to not buy the first item that pops up with the lowest price?

Easily solved by implementing a queue, the oldest listing at the top, then the others in chronological order. If someone's selling multiple copies of an item, upon selling one they go back to the end of the queue.

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by SordidDreams

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

No it’s not.

[Test-995]

no

[tarfeef101]

To be honest, I make a lot of plat off of people who don't know to use or don't want to use online trading systems (ie warframe.market)

I used to be an intense riven trader back when Warframe > work/school. I would take advantage of the market to make thousands of plat off of a single mod. But, honestly, now that my time is more limited, I'd rather just use riven.market and hope people want my stuff so I can have some free slots again. So while I probably would've been unhappy about this a couple years ago, I'm less annoyed about it now. 

To those who are still in the riven game and waited out for the big sales: just take it as an opportunity to switch to higher volume and lower margin. You can still make ungodly amounts of plat, and it's a lot easier.