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Luciole77

Auction house system?

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The current trade chat system coupled with looking at Warframe Market to get an idea of the price, is not player-friendly, to say the least.

Sure, we can imagine a system in the game, where players would put their WTS or WTB items, along with a price, and other players would click in to trade. Trade would be much easier. Number of transactions would likely go up.

But what about prices ? Frankly, I can't say if average prices would go up, or down, or converge to that 'supply/demand price equilibrium' economists love to talk about.

We'd likely go into some kind of stock market behavior, where people buy or sell based on what they think other people will think and do. Which is pure BS and has nothing to do with demand and supply (look at oil prices for example).

In the end - I think it's worth a shot. It would make players' life easier. And in the end, if that means lower income for DE, let's shut it down.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Pumba_Beneator said:

The current trade chat system coupled with looking at Warframe Market to get an idea of the price, is not player-friendly, to say the least.

Sure, we can imagine a system in the game, where players would put their WTS or WTB items, along with a price, and other players would click in to trade. Trade would be much easier. Number of transactions would likely go up.

But what about prices ? Frankly, I can't say if average prices would go up, or down, or converge to that 'supply/demand price equilibrium' economists love to talk about.

We'd likely go into some kind of stock market behavior, where people buy or sell based on what they think other people will think and do. Which is pure BS and has nothing to do with demand and supply (look at oil prices for example).

In the end - I think it's worth a shot. It would make players' life easier. And in the end, if that means lower income for DE, let's shut it down.

how would an in game market be any different though? like actually? the only difference is that it would be IN game.. im not really seeing much else.

how exactly is this "not player friendly" i think that is a rather subjective opinion at best.

from the points i've seen the only thing this offers is the ability to have one less thing to tab out of warframe to see.

as for the income i could only assume that an ingame market would need an active server running 24/7 which would cost them money to maintain. they also do not exactly earn anything from it either, people will still be trading via whatever the current means are, or make their own means. (reddit/forums/ect)

id like to add that i am not against the idea but from DE's POV its would seem not needed or necessary. it's a mere QoL that we can live without. and lets be real the warframe community wants QoL in just about Every single thing. (i mean that applies to most things) 

 i think in order for any semblance of this to be introduced to by DE it would have to be feasibly the BEST method of trading. while also not dipping into DE's Pockets.

but i'm actually curious as i dont think anyone has actually mentioned. what exactly would this in game market actually look like in warframe? d

an improved maroo's bazaar? a new tab?  where would the market be placed?

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Pumba_Beneator:

We'd likely go into some kind of stock market behavior, where people buy or sell based on what they think other people will think and do. Which is pure BS and has nothing to do with demand and supply (look at oil prices for example).

In the end - I think it's worth a shot. It would make players' life easier. And in the end, if that means lower income for DE, let's shut it down.

The item prices are genrally attached to rarity and usefulness. It's fine to me.

And why would you like to see the player trade beeing shut down? Why do you want to influence other peoples gameplay? It doen't affect your personal gamplay. Whenever someone writes something like: Player trading is bad - I wonder what's the odd personal bias behind this?

I also don't think that it lowers the income of DE - beside the fact that I have other problems then breaking my head over their income, tbh. Beside that you shoulnd't forget that every plat that's beeing traded was bought by someone for real money. It's IMO a false conclusion to think no trade = more plat beeing sold. We shouldn't forget that Warframe's popularity is partially based on the fact that it isn't pay to win. Do you really think that so many people would keep on playing this game if they have to pay for a third frame in their arsenal? I don't think so.

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Trade Chat in its infinitive form is a near, unintelligible mess (barring tags). Most Trade Plazas are empty save for the few afk hopefuls. Due to a lack of intuitive, comparable listings, unsavvy players are scalped daily with no realization or indication. 

Hence my request, can we get a digital auction house or trade listin in game? Have a tax to prevent junk listings. Include sortable columns and searchable fields, including the presence online. This'll facilitate trade, make pricing more competitive, and be a convenience for those not attempting to price gouge the desparate / lazy / inexperienced. 

Now for my second request, I request the addition of a commodities exchange. One in which materials like endo, cetus wisps, and kuva can be exchanged. Values can be quantified in something like platinum, thysts, auroxium (>θ.θ)> *gold*, et cetera for cross-referencing.

I am Not advocating an open barter system, but a system similar to real world securities with bid, asks, charts, and spread with fluctuating values based on supply and demand, except contained in Warframe. Buying and selling occurs anonymously and goes for market price for the closest bid at the time (+ or - spread).

I'm proposing an in game platform dedicated to resources separate from the aforementiomed trade listing proposition. Bonus pts for adding supply / demand / drop modifiers based upon in game world events, invasions, and other faction / world factors. For starters, look at the Galactic Market in "Endless Space 2."

Por exemplo, let us say the infested get beaten back repeatedly in invasions and there's a low float of mutagen samples on the market. As a reault, demand remains constant and supply just dropped, so price rises. People can sell mutagen samples at the new price to satisfy demand. Also the market may spawn a new meta due to a referential display of value. For example if the above conditions caused Mutagen Samples x15 rise to 5 platinum, then mutagen samples could be traded for thysts face to face in a dojo elsewhere, not in the platform (it's anonymous). Boring mats just went from a sobering reminder of extraneous grind to a whole other trade game. 

And we know what faction loves trade games... 

I for one think that the gui would be the most difficult thing to implement. Also, opening up and cleaning trade in warframe would be a huge plus. Thoughts and considerations anyone?

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No. This game does not need an auction house, especially for resources. The economy in Warframe already has instability, and we don't need to make this worse. Resources should only be purchased from the market. Look at Plains/Orb Vallis resources. You can trade them for 1 platinum. Your idea has good intentions, but everything would be 1-2p.

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1 hour ago, Ekemeister said:

Trade Chat in its infinitive form is a near, unintelligible mess (barring tags). Most Trade Plazas are empty save for the few afk hopefuls. Due to a lack of intuitive, comparable listings, unsavvy players are scalped daily with no realization or indication. 

Hence my request, can we get a digital auction house or trade listin in game? Have a tax to prevent junk listings. Include sortable columns and searchable fields, including the presence online. This'll facilitate trade, make pricing more competitive, and be a convenience for those not attempting to price gouge the desparate / lazy / inexperienced. 

Now for my second request, I request the addition of a commodities exchange. One in which materials like endo, cetus wisps, and kuva can be exchanged. Values can be quantified in something like platinum, thysts, auroxium (>θ.θ)> *gold*, et cetera for cross-referencing.

I am Not advocating an open barter system, but a system similar to real world securities with bid, asks, charts, and spread with fluctuating values based on supply and demand, except contained in Warframe. Buying and selling occurs anonymously and goes for market price for the closest bid at the time (+ or - spread).

I'm proposing an in game platform dedicated to resources separate from the aforementiomed trade listing proposition. Bonus pts for adding supply / demand / drop modifiers based upon in game world events, invasions, and other faction / world factors. For starters, look at the Galactic Market in "Endless Space 2."

Por exemplo, let us say the infested get beaten back repeatedly in invasions and there's a low float of mutagen samples on the market. As a reault, demand remains constant and supply just dropped, so price rises. People can sell mutagen samples at the new price to satisfy demand. Also the market may spawn a new meta due to a referential display of value. For example if the above conditions caused Mutagen Samples x15 rise to 5 platinum, then mutagen samples could be traded for thysts face to face in a dojo elsewhere, not in the platform (it's anonymous). Boring mats just went from a sobering reminder of extraneous grind to a whole other trade game. 

And we know what faction loves trade games... 

I for one think that the gui would be the most difficult thing to implement. Also, opening up and cleaning trade in warframe would be a huge plus. Thoughts and considerations anyone?

No. 

Auction houses, work based on supply and demand. In this game the vast majority of things don't degrade. So there's no repair or replacement cost, to keep demand high. As demand drops, so does price. Soon enough you're just giving away stuff for almost nothing, because it's the only way to make any plat from your sales. 

 

And while I'm happy to see that the folks behind Endless Space are doing well, please understand that it's a very different game and the economy is not the same ours. You can't mine or manufacture your own Platinum. It's a premium currency that you (or other people) have to pay actual money for. If your auction house worked only on credits it would still be... problematic. Instead it works on platinum, so that's totally out of the question. 

 

 

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If the developers paid attention to the auction and trading system in Guild Wars 2, and transferred some elements of such a system to Warframe, that would be fine. 

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1 minute ago, Falconer777 said:

If the developers paid attention to the auction and trading system in Guild Wars 2, and transferred some elements of such a system to Warframe, that would be fine. 

Also, no. For the exact same reason. It's almost as though people playing these vastly different games, with vastly different economies, can't figure out how the differences work. 

When is the last time you had to repair something in Warframe? 

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It always amuses me when I see people descend on these threads like a pack of wolves, arguing about how an auction house is this awful thing which should never happen and why don't you search... When the game already has a fully-functioning auction house in warframe.market anyway. If any of the doom and disruption you guys attribute to an auction house or a consignment house were actually real, it would have happened years ago. All the lack of a proper trading system does in Warframe is encourage the use of a secondary market outside of DE's control or oversight.

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4 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

It always amuses me when I see people descend on these threads like a pack of wolves, arguing about how an auction house is this awful thing which should never happen and why don't you search... When the game already has a fully-functioning auction house in warframe.market anyway. If any of the doom and disruption you guys attribute to an auction house or a consignment house were actually real, it would have happened years ago. All the lack of a proper trading system does in Warframe is encourage the use of a secondary market outside of DE's control or oversight.

Sadly I'm not amused when I see people who don't understand certain basic principles of economics. 

Warframe market isn't an actual auction house, not in the sense that people are asking for. It's more of a classified ads section. People advertise their wares and put their requests. It allows you to contact the seller directly, assuming they are online, and arrange a trade. 

 

An in game auction house usually involves consigning your items, to the system for sale, and the buyer not interacting with you, just the system. You are then paid by the system. It generally doesn't matter if you are online or not, as the system is online at all times. 

 

I know that for some people, they see something, and want it, and think "it's simple, just give me what I want. Why waste time? Just give it to me already, I know a lot of people are saying that it's a bad idea, but it's really a great idea, they're just all too stupid to understand why I want this". It's a part of how some people think, and results in people doing things that are not good for them. Like trying to eat Tide Pods. 

 

Don't be like those people. Don't eat the Tide Pods. 

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I can see the point but IMHO, no. This would sorta eliminate interpersonal trading, wich i find to be a 'touch' of warframe at this point, not to mention the oddities we might find withiin an AH.

What i would like to see and i already suggested, is a trade terminal within the orbiter or just the ability to direct trade within cetus, solaris, relays. No the private shop thing, but direct trade like we do in dojos.

Speaking of wich, private could use some improvements...

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57 минут назад, Steel_Rook сказал:

It always amuses me when I see people descend on these threads like a pack of wolves, arguing about how an auction house is this awful thing which should never happen and why don't you search... When the game already has a fully-functioning auction house in warframe.market anyway. If any of the doom and disruption you guys attribute to an auction house or a consignment house were actually real, it would have happened years ago. All the lack of a proper trading system does in Warframe is encourage the use of a secondary market outside of DE's control or oversight.

Precisely!

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1 час назад, (PS4)guzmantt1977 сказал:

Also, no. For the exact same reason. It's almost as though people playing these vastly different games, with vastly different economies, can't figure out how the differences work. 

 

I do not see much difference in the economies of these games.  Inflation is held back there very simply - you can not auction your product below the minimum set price. Above - please, below - no. As a result, in the shopping section, all products of the same type are exhibited at the same price. These parameters of course change a little - but no "pruning" is possible.
The bazaar in Warframe (I don’t dare to call this atavism as a trading system) does not even allow my own platinum bought for real money to be spent comfortably, without killing your time and sight with this fast-moving, chaotic list. Do not even have time to read the characteristics of the product.
I’m not talking about selling something there.
I have never seen such an inconvenient trading system in any game.

In addition, it has already been rightly noted above that the existence of the warframe.market (in fact, a third-party auction) in no way affected the economy of the game.
I understand that a small percentage of speculators who are accustomed to this market will by all means oppose the normal trading system. But this is up to a certain point, until the demand for the auction becomes so massive that the DE can no longer ignore it. And this moment is near. The more new players - the more themes  about the auction.
People come from other games and just freak out on the inconvenience of "trade chat." 

Цитата

When is the last time you had to repair something in Warframe? 

I didn't quite understand the question.

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1 час назад, (PS4)guzmantt1977 сказал:

Sadly I'm not amused when I see people who don't understand certain basic principles of economics. 

 

It is curious that below you do not write about the economy in general. And about the method of sale.

Цитата

An in game auction house usually involves consigning your items, to the system for sale, and the buyer not interacting with you, just the system. You are then paid by the system. It generally doesn't matter if you are online or not, as the system is online at all times. 

Yes, and this is excellent, as it saves time for both the seller and the buyer.
And auction sections allow you to quickly find the desired product. Do not spend hours on this endless sweat messages.

Цитата

I know that for some people, they see something, and want it, and think "it's simple, just give me what I want. Why waste time? Just give it to me already, I know a lot of people are saying that it's a bad idea, but it's really a great idea, they're just all too stupid to understand why I want this". It's a part of how some people think, and results in people doing things that are not good for them. Like trying to eat Tide Pods. 

 

Don't be like those people. Don't eat the Tide Pods. 

What does this have to do with economics? Why did you write this at all? What is it about?

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5 hours ago, Makunogo said:

how would an in game market be any different though? like actually? the only difference is that it would be IN game.. im not really seeing much else.

how exactly is this "not player friendly" i think that is a rather subjective opinion at best.

from the points i've seen the only thing this offers is the ability to have one less thing to tab out of warframe to see.

as for the income i could only assume that an ingame market would need an active server running 24/7 which would cost them money to maintain. they also do not exactly earn anything from it either, people will still be trading via whatever the current means are, or make their own means. (reddit/forums/ect)

id like to add that i am not against the idea but from DE's POV its would seem not needed or necessary. it's a mere QoL that we can live without. and lets be real the warframe community wants QoL in just about Every single thing. (i mean that applies to most things) 

 i think in order for any semblance of this to be introduced to by DE it would have to be feasibly the BEST method of trading. while also not dipping into DE's Pockets.

but i'm actually curious as i dont think anyone has actually mentioned. what exactly would this in game market actually look like in warframe? d

an improved maroo's bazaar? a new tab?  where would the market be placed?

It would be different, because if they decide to make a market ui, it would be more accessible, efficient, and useful for all players. It would also be legit. So why not?

Every economy is going to have moments of ups and downs(trade chat/hand trades/markets/shops), but markets will generally have an average/median balance.

Warframe is a huge game, it's a top global favorite! So I think they're fine. They have a good team, and they also have a merch store, plat/access and other stuff players can buy from their site, Twitch, ads, sales from people using money to buy plat, etc. So they are making money, that's why they put out new expansions(Fortuna wasn't exactly a small expansion either), and new frames and stuff. I think it's fine if players want to continually use other means of trade if they want, but I think it'd be great to have a marketplace. I also think players would slowly begin to use it more due to efficiency, and user friendliness.

There's nothing wrong with wanting QoL. 

Okay, there are a lot of ideas of how the market can look. I'll just jot down some here.

  • Placements of Market: Could be a placeable little item(similar to the minigames placeable item). So when you place it wherever you want in your ship, you can run up to it, and select it. Then it would open a square menu(like inventory I guess[just talking about shape no tabs or anything yet] but maybe not full screen). Then you would see tabs along the left side of this menu displaying words of things that are already tradeable(Materials, Parts, Prime Parts, Veiled Rivens, Prime Access(real money advert), Platinum(real money advert) etc.). Then you would click one of these tabs, and choose a sort function from the top right side of the ui. Sort function could be recent, what you bought last(history), price, rarity, etc. When you click an item you want to buy, it will show you the credits tax(or something if there's a tax). And you would only be able to buy up to your max MR trading limit. ---For selling, there could be another section/tab that you click towards the bottom, and it would have some slots when you click it. Then you click a slot and it opens your inventory so you can select what you can set for sale. Once again, you can only sell as many items as your MR max trade limit. ---If your MR is 10, and you buy 1 relic and 1 prime part, then you still have 8 things you can buy or sell. So if you were to decide to sell something, you would only be allowed to place 8 items, now. 
  • The market could also be accessed in the Market in your ship. Just a different section you'd click on or something. 
  • If it were little clan shops, there could be a hub/table/box item that you could place anywhere you want in the clan(so you can decide where you want the shops). And it could be where any member in that clan could go up to it and set shop. Or there could be a set up shop perm. 
  • It could also simply be a menu option(from when you press Esc or Start). 

I am considering making a visual mock up of what it could be, and adding it to here. I am not entirely sure yet.  

 

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5 hours ago, Birkenhoff said:

The item prices are genrally attached to rarity and usefulness. It's fine to me.

And why would you like to see the player trade beeing shut down? Why do you want to influence other peoples gameplay? It doen't affect your personal gamplay. Whenever someone writes something like: Player trading is bad - I wonder what's the odd personal bias behind this?

I also don't think that it lowers the income of DE - beside the fact that I have other problems then breaking my head over their income, tbh. Beside that you shoulnd't forget that every plat that's beeing traded was bought by someone for real money. It's IMO a false conclusion to think no trade = more plat beeing sold. We shouldn't forget that Warframe's popularity is partially based on the fact that it isn't pay to win. Do you really think that so many people would keep on playing this game if they have to pay for a third frame in their arsenal? I don't think so.

I agree.

Yes. Everyone should remember that because platinum is a premium currency, that someone bought it in some way at some point(I've even contributed a few bucks at one point). And every 75 plat is around $5 (if I remember correctly). And there are Prime Access packages that are $50+. 

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As long as you can't AFK trade, then I'm seeing no real problems.

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38 minutes ago, Falconer777 said:

It is curious that below you do not write about the economy in general. And about the method of sale.

Perhaps because I'd written in the post prior to the one I quoted when I made that statement? 

39 minutes ago, Falconer777 said:

Yes, and this is excellent, as it saves time for both the seller and the buyer.
And auction sections allow you to quickly find the desired product. Do not spend hours on this endless sweat messages.

And in the process, boosts supply way above the current levels of demand (which at any given moment remains more or less constant) causing prices to drop. Basic economics. 

 

Congratulations what you proposed will have no effect can destroy the economy. Well done. Or not. 

42 minutes ago, Falconer777 said:

What does this have to do with economics? Why did you write this at all? What is it about?

Two main reasons. First to show that people often want things that they don't understand and if they get it, end up hurting themselves, which is relevant to the discussion. Second to warn you about the dangers of eating Tide Pods, just incase you decide that eating one would also be a good idea, which is just a good deed on my part. 

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55 minutes ago, Falconer777 said:

I didn't quite understand the question.

That explains why you don't see much difference between the two in-game economies. 

If there's a system that ensures recurring demand for some items in one game and no equivalent system in the other, then you have a rather enormous difference to a system that works based on the balance between supply and demand. 

Take a look at the sale prices for items on PC vs console some time. A basic hint would be prime junk. Its roughly 1 plat on PS4, partly because we don't get discounts on plat. Plat is in less supply, but high demand. This shifts the relative worth. What's the going rate on PC these days? 

Basic economics. 

 

And again, warframe market is NOT an absentee Auction House or consignment marketplace. Its a classifieds ads page. There's a difference between the two. 

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2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Warframe market isn't an actual auction house, not in the sense that people are asking for. It's more of a classified ads section. People advertise their wares and put their requests. It allows you to contact the seller directly, assuming they are online, and arrange a trade. 

Most MMO "auction houses" aren't auction houses, either. City of Heroes had a literal consignment house - in that it was called "Wentworth's Fine Consignments" - and people still called it the "auction house." To the point, in fact, that when a slash command was added to access it remotely, it was /ah. Unless people get into the details of their proposal, jumping to the conclusion that they want the Diablo 3 Auction House seems a bit of a stretch. Especially because I'm pretty sure that people making that suggestion would be fine with an in-game version of warframe.market. I mean, go back to the OP. The only information we're given is:

 

5 hours ago, Ekemeister said:

Hence my request, can we get a digital auction house or trade listin in game?

The latter already exists, just not in-game. Now, you can criticise me for assuming the best possible situation: that the OP just wants an in-game warframe.market. I can, however, similarly criticise you for assuming the worst possible situation: that the OP wants "whatever World of Warcraft has." We're given no precise information as to the OP's envisioned implementation, but that's not reason alone to dismiss discussion of a better trading system or to defend what's genuinely the worst most obnoxious trading system I've seen since Lineage 2 a decade ago.

 

20 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And again, warframe market is NOT an absentee Auction House or consignment marketplace. Its a classifieds ads page. There's a difference between the two. 

And that difference - absent the context you simply don't have - is semantics.

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So many auction houses of MMORPG's are overrun by bots that are selling their stuff so they get currency that then they can sell for real money. The system here works because, to a point, has to be human or, at least, way less automated than an auction house.

Jesus, FFXIV AH is full of bots selling stuff easily farmed so they can make enough currency to then sell it through internet sites for real money. I don't want that on Warframe. I'm fine with the market as it is. However, I'd love if they'd add a riven trade channel to separate it from the normal one.

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1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

Most MMO "auction houses" aren't auction houses, either. City of Heroes had a literal consignment house - in that it was called "Wentworth's Fine Consignments" - and people still called it the "auction house." To the point, in fact, that when a slash command was added to access it remotely, it was /ah. Unless people get into the details of their proposal, jumping to the conclusion that they want the Diablo 3 Auction House seems a bit of a stretch.

Fascinating. Now tell me is one of the features of this "not an Auction House" that you can list your items for sale and make passive trades without getting involved with the purchaser? Perhaps even if you are AFK or possibly even, not online? 

If so, please understand, this time, that it will break the supply-demand ratio rather badly and this will have a significant impact on the prices of items. 

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

Now, you can criticise me for assuming the best possible situation: that the OP just wants an in-game warframe.market. 

Fine, consider yourself criticised for deciding that people who ask for things, actually want something else, that often amounts to the same thing, and the entire chain of logic that goes "this thing that they said isn't what they mean, but this other thing that they also said is what they mean, and we should all attempt to decipher which of the things they said means what they mean, except for when it doesn't."

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

I can, however, similarly criticise you for assuming the worst possible situation: that the OP wants "whatever World of Warcraft has."

Would it make you feel better if I pointed out that I don't like the idea of blind bid consignment stores any more than I do any other form of AFK automated auction houses? Because they all share the same flaw, as pointed out in the past? 

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

We're given no precise information as to the OP's envisioned implementation, but that's not reason alone to dismiss discussion of a better trading system or to defend what's genuinely the worst most obnoxious trading system I've seen since Lineage 2 a decade ago.

Oh, of course its a reason to dismiss it. Imagine trying to use that logic if you went to a boardroom meeting in a Fortune 500, with a proposal for something that you don't bother to explain and a draft proposal done up in crayon. Believe it or not, this game is actually a business. If you want to propose a change, shouldn't you bear in mind that it is how some people earn a living and a proposal that starts off suggesting something that they've repeatedly explained that they do not want along with a bunch of other possibilities is a bad idea? 

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

And that difference - absent the context you simply don't have - is semantics.

Incorrect. The difference is valid whether you choose to accept it or not. Whether the original poster meant what the words they used mean, that's semantics. 

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