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Stalker Mode = best thing in game!


Aramil999
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I had an idea for the opt-in/opt-out feature. Tie it to joining the syndicate.

So if you want to invade/be invaded by a player controlled Stalker you have to be a part of the Stalker syndicate. Meaning you can only hunt players that are a part of the syndicate.

If you don't want to partake, don't join the syndicate

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Well Scott said that there will be Stalker Syndicate. We can only wait and see how it will be 😉

Atlas is indeed best counter to Stalker, however as far as im concerned it will probably be possible to counter Atlas. 

Jumping high above ground or shooting from far away should lower chance of getting punched. However on consoles where only controler is aviable it can be very hard to counter.

Well, whole PvP thing on controler is cancer anyways.

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Right now Stalker Player has no abilities because it is only prototype (i mean DE streams). But orginal Stalker Abilities include "dispell" which removes all buffs and channeled abilities. 

So ONLY really broken skill that wrecks stalker is Atlas 1 since it is instat skill (so can't be disspelled) and gives invincibility, but luckly has low range and doesn't work too well on enemies that are high above you.

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From all dev stream Stalker Mode invasions I can tell that:

1. Strongest thing in Stalker arsenal is that he can see players through walls and he can spawn in hidding behind corners, walls etc.

2. Most players have little PvP experience and very hard time shooting good Stalker. If you invade 1 good pvper or prepared Atlas or other specialy prepared anty-invasions build you can consider yourself unlucky. 

Therefore I doubt such minor problems would be any thing more that annoying.

Only real problem I see are channeled invincible skills such as Valkyr Histeria, Wukong Defy maybe buffs like Rhino Ironskin. Ofc. Atlas 1 spam, but that is at least possible to outplay with good movement and enough space.

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17 hours ago, VenomousValentine said:

-Snip-

And why is the world should they put in countermeasures for various Warframe abilities just for a player Stalker.  If you're such a great conclave player, than you should already know some.  

I already know of one that should work for a vast majority of frames, but I'm not sure exactly how DE is going to implement that little detail.  Then again I'm not even sure if regular Stalker even has that power that Shadow Stalker does.  

A Player Stalker might also have to worry about being effected by Sleep.  That would be very funny to watcha a Player Stalker spawn in and get put to sleep followed by a stealth kill.  I would LMAO 😂 

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7 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

And why is the world should they put in countermeasures for various Warframe abilities just for a player Stalker.  If you're such a great conclave player, than you should already know some.  

I already know of one that should work for a vast majority of frames, but I'm not sure exactly how DE is going to implement that little detail.  Then again I'm not even sure if regular Stalker even has that power that Shadow Stalker does.  

A Player Stalker might also have to worry about being effected by Sleep.  That would be very funny to watcha a Player Stalker spawn in and get put to sleep followed by a stealth kill.  I would LMAO 😂 

In conclave those countermeasures are already in place by limiting mods and damage output. the stalker is at a heavy disadvantage because he can't mod. (which he should be, but my point still stands.)

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Just now, VenomousValentine said:

In conclave those countermeasures are already in place by limiting mods and damage output. the stalker is at a heavy disadvantage because he can't mod. (which he should be, but my point still stands.)

But this wouldn't be Conclave.  The frames powers aren't changed in PvE like they are in Conclave.  This means that Stalker is at an even higher disadvantage against certain frames then he would be in a Conclave environment.  

If you plan to go into it thinking of Conclave balancing, then prepare to get quite a few surprises.  

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Just now, DatDarkOne said:

But this wouldn't be Conclave.  The frames powers aren't changed in PvE like they are in Conclave.  This means that Stalker is at an even higher disadvantage against certain frames then he would be in a Conclave environment.  

If you plan to go into it thinking of Conclave balancing, then prepare to get quite a few surprises.  

You're right.

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Luckly Stalker is immunt to most AoE-wall-ignoring abilities that would delete him with no way to do anything.

Add Disspell and i would consider Stalker balanced. Yes, he is at massive disadvantige but he comes KNOWING that he will do PvP and attacks unprepered players which, from my invasion experiece (Dark Souls and Dark Souls 3, at leat 100 hours of invasions) I would say that being prepared mentaly for PvP versus having better gear and more players is hard to tell what is stronger. 

Of course then comes personal skill and tactics, if Stalker manages to stealthy spawn behind wall and shoot at unmoving player just behind corner (remember Stalker sees players through walls) is VERY hard to couter unless you move all the time (which many players do) and Dev streams showed that 1 Dread shot killed most not ultra tank frames and 2 shots killed Nezha with Halo.

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1 hour ago, Aramil999 said:

Of course then comes personal skill and tactics, if Stalker manages to stealthy spawn behind wall and shoot at unmoving player just behind corner (remember Stalker sees players through walls) is VERY hard to couter unless you move all the time (which many players do) and Dev streams showed that 1 Dread shot killed most not ultra tank frames and 2 shots killed Nezha with Halo.

The interesting thing is whether or not player stalkers will also be able to see invisible frames.  Currently no version of Stalker can.  

If DE gives player stalkers the ability to see them, then that's just straight up bullshyte.  On the flip side, if players Stalkers can't see them, then they are going to get rested horribly by Ash and Ivara.  I'm not counting Loki because he doesn't really have any offensive traits outside of weapons that would make much difference.  

edit: I'm giving these as examples of one of many hurdles DE will have to figure out before implementing this.  So far that I can see any advantage a player stalker will or could have is directly tied to being able to either not be seen first and/or using stealth to initiate first contact.  Considering how his arrival is announced to all players, I just don't see player stalkers having much fun overall.  Well at least not nearly as much as they seem to think they will.  

Edited by DatDarkOne
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28 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

The interesting thing is whether or not player stalkers will also be able to see invisible frames.  Currently no version of Stalker can.  

Ehhhh, "invisibility" just makes the user harder to see, so some players might (and will) still be able to keep track of enemies hiding in any kind of invisibility power.

Edit: in this clip i'm using an invisibility power, enemies see me in the same way i appear in my screen, however, they don't find me simply because i was not only invisible, but also behind a cover and shooting distracted enemies.

 

Edited by ----Legacy----
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2 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Ehhhh, "invisibility" just makes the user harder to see, so some players might (and will) still be able to keep track of enemies hiding in any kind of invisibility power.

Edit: in this clip i'm using an invisibility power, enemies see me in the same way i appear in my screen, however, they don't find me simply because i was not only invisible, but also behind a cover and shooting distracted enemies.

 

Not quite my fellow Tenno.  I have seen what Ivara looks like in Cloak Arrow in Conclave from perspective of the other players in vids.  They can't she her, but see the outline of the cloak bubble circle unless it's been changed since I last saw it.   What I'm referring to mostly is Prowl, Ash's Smoke, Loki's Invis, and Octavia's.  Those are invisibilities that don't have an outline marking the area where they might be.  

Unless Player Stalker can either see them like he does others through walls or see them like we do by the energy color (unless black is used :D), he won't be able to tell where he hell they are.  

P.S.  I like your skill with the bow in that video. Mad props.  👍

Edited by DatDarkOne
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4 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Not quite my fellow Tenno.  I have seen what Ivara looks like in Cloak Arrow in Conclave from perspective of the other players in vids.  They can't she her, but see the outline of the cloak bubble circle unless it's been changed since I last saw it.   What I'm referring to mostly is Prowl, Ash's Smoke, Loki's Invis, and Octavia's.  Those are invisibilities that don't have an outline marking the area where they might be.  

Unless Player Stalker can either see them like he does others through walls or see them like we do by the energy color (unless black is used :D), he won't be able to tell where he hell they are.  

The outline is the same when you're looking at someone else, the enemies just become harder to spot since they are usually moving in your screen while your warframe is on a fixed position in it.

Black energy isn't a safe thing since it becomes a dark shade of red and keeps the "predator invisibility vfx" (i have no idea on how to call it, so i hope you understand what i'm talking about), and some players are able to see through it and still get kills on invisible enemies.

You can take these clips as example:

(Credits to Loxyen for this clip)

(Credits to Stormdragon for this one)

And you can be sure they are not the only ones able to do such things since there's a lot of good players out there.

4 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

P.S.  I like your skill with the bow in that video. Mad props.  👍

Thank you very much 😄

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21 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

keeps the "predator invisibility vfx"

That's the part I couldn't find any video on to check to be sure.  Thanks for the effort you went through to find and post them.  I really do appreciate that. 

Now having said all that and also going by what you've shown.  It still doesn't look very good for Player Stalkers in general especially when normal PvE powers are involved.  Honestly outside of ganking some newbies, I just really don't see this Player Stalker mode being all that great for the Player Stalker.  I foresee a lot of crying for nerfs as soon as those Stalkers come up against either more experienced players, groups with good gear, and/or a combo of both.  

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8 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Now having said all that and also going by what you've shown.  It still doesn't look very good for Player Stalkers in general especially when normal PvE powers are involved.  Honestly outside of ganking some newbies, I just really don't see this Player Stalker mode being all that great for the Player Stalker.  I foresee a lot of crying for nerfs as soon as those Stalkers come up against either more experienced players, groups with good gear, and/or a combo of both.  

To be fair, there are several things that are being forgotten in these statements such as Vanilla Stalker's kit. Keep in mind he's passively immune to most warframe powers (aoe doesn't grt him and he's an "invalid target" for aimed powers), can easily dispell buffs and has a unique skill set of 7 active powers: Pre-rework slash dash, modified pull, shuriken, smoke bomb, teleport, reckoning, and absorb), and stalker progression (level scaling, progression tied to syndicate rewards, a modding system, skill tree, whatever DE decides to give him) to make stalker the actual threat he used to be before this powercreep nonsense started getting out of hand.

I'm actually more concerned and curious about how will DE balance the operator for this mode, will it count as a power that can be dispelled? Will stalker's weapons be able to hurt him through void mode like Umbra could? Will these send him straight back to the warframe? I'm really looking forwards to what will DE do with these given that unlike popular belief, they are quite good when it comes to balance PvP environments and stalker's kit, once again, is gonna be a deciding factor on how much fun can players on both ends get from it.

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2 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

To be fair, there are several things that are being forgotten in these statements such as Vanilla Stalker's kit. Keep in mind he's passively immune to most warframe powers (aoe doesn't grt him and he's an "invalid target" for aimed powers), can easily dispell buffs and has a unique skill set of 7 active powers: Pre-rework slash dash, modified pull, shuriken, smoke bomb, teleport, reckoning, and absorb), and stalker progression (level scaling, progression tied to syndicate rewards, a modding system, skill tree, whatever DE decides to give him) to make stalker the actual threat he used to be before this powercreep nonsense started getting out of hand

I've actually taken those very things i to consideration.  Which is why I've only mentioned frames that I know for a fact wouldn't have much of a problem with those.  Because of such things, balancing the mode will be an absolute nightmare IMO.  

There are going to be cases where Stalker has an advantage against some frames, and disadvantages against others.  This is without even adding in the 4 vs 1 aspect.  

Edit: I also must mention the "invalid target for aimed powers" thing isn't the case for all of them.  Magnetize is one that I know works on him, and there's also some powers that he can't dispel.  Either because he just can't or because its limited range (a factor in Titania's case)

Edited by DatDarkOne
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8 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I've actually taken those very things i to consideration.  Which is why I've only mentioned frames that I know for a fact wouldn't have much of a problem with those.  Because of such things, balancing the mode will be an absolute nightmare IMO.  

There are going to be cases where Stalker has an advantage against some frames, and disadvantages against others.  This is without even adding in the 4 vs 1 aspect.  

Edit: I also must mention the "invalid target for aimed powers" thing isn't the case for all of them.  Magnetize is one that I know works on him, and there's also some powers that he can't dispel.  Either because he just can't or because its limited range (a factor in Titania's case)

That's exactly the point, we don't know how player stalker will improve. Following the magnetize example, i guess an experienced player will probably activate absorb as soon as the buble appears on him and then destroy his target with the damage absorbed and call it a day, he could do the same against any high dps weapon or powers like razorwing to avoid instant death and that's just one of his tools and assuming he doesn't get access to augments like draining gloom, singularity, or sapping reach to spice things up even further.

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I just hope Stalker will have access to Disspell and yeah maybe that Absorb thing, that would give him oh im dead in 1 sec. panic button.

But such gimics mean little in face of true skill so Im sure that in most normal missions warframe choice of players won't be game breaking.

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19 часов назад, ----Legacy---- сказал:

I'm actually more concerned and curious about how will DE balance the operator for this mode

You can force the kiddo in by shooting the warframe standing still. It's not invincible while he's out 🔫

Edited by Dzecar
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1 hour ago, Dzecar said:

You can force the kiddo in by shooting the warframe standing still. It's not invincible while he's out 🔫

Wait what? Only if Warframe is channeling an ability or you talk about Excalibur Umbra they can be damaged. If you just use Operator, Warframe is invulnerable. Im 100% sure about that.

Did they add some kind of special Stalker interaction or you just give missinformation? Add source or this is bs.

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