LunchBoxKilla Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 This is what damn near every F2P company I've ever seen has done. A lot of them are still living strong. It's like the customers enjoy being stepped on and whatnot. In that case, I can see that they had noble intentions.. they should do this with a boss and tileset that are advertised as a metagame set... Not something like this... Um you guys can go boycott something you didn't need to have in the first place. But um...Im going to be trying to get the new weapons and sentinel if I do say so myself. De should have a april fools joke where they intentionally unbalance everything and show all you gullible fools how ungrateful you are. This game is free to play. FREE. Calling any free to play game that uses this sort of business model free is silly. That's like calling the grocery store "free to shop". Sure, you can walk around all you like, you can see all of the grocery store things and enjoy the grocery store "atmosphere" for free all you like. However in the end you still have to buy stuff to get it. Just like the grocery store, free to play games are a sort of "gallery", trying to advertise products to you, and hoping you will purchase them. I just really don't understand the math, is my big issue. If you work a minimum wage job in the United States of $7.25 per hour, then even something that takes an hour to grind and can be bought for $5 is more reasonable to purchase. You're saving time value by doing so. For something that takes 10 hours to not be worth paying for mathematically, it would need to cost over $72.50. They don't need to ask us to grind 30 hours to unlock something they're charging $5-10 for. It's unnecessarily disrespectful to the value of time of the playerbase. The people who actually have money to blow would be willing to part with it for far less. All such extremely stretched systems do is punish the people who haven't got any money and couldn't pay if they wanted to. I really want you guys to stop playing this game for a moment... go to steam or look up star trek online....Then just play it or look into it... Just...just look at its own business model.. Its giving anything and everything away for FREE. A few months ago they gave a new playable race away for FREE. new weapons new ships and all sorts FOR FREE... the only thing that you may feel pressured into buying is nothing in this game.. "c-store ships" have this little shiny thing they do that no other ship you get as you progress, that don't make them any better than their same level variants. you may feel a little pressure at end game to by tier 5 ships but a tier 4 is still very usable for end game content (and side note there is no real difference between tier 4 and 5, 5 is just a rank of ships that you COULD BUY with money or grind to get for free). If you make a new character of the same faction guess what happens? all dem shiny ships and clothing you bought on your alt gets transferred to you NEW CHAR FOR FREE.. Yup! Its true.... I spent 25$ for a ship in that game and its a tier 5 any new character I make for the Federation side has complete and total access to it the second it makes the required level to fly it. Holy crap I know right? Why would i spend 25$ for a ship? Well i saw it as if I was buying the game in the first place, second Cryptic is doing something good by NOT FORCING ME TO SPEND MONEY FOR NEW CONTENT.... Yeah Warframe isn't Star trek online but it sure as hell could learn from its free to play model........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxyKabam Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 It would be a sin not to make this joke given the opportunity. Sorry Foxy. I can't not do it. I just wasn't strong enough to resist. I laughed was worth it +1 good sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felldian Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 The community made it clear after the Corpus Key event that they didn't want more void keys. They wanted a better alternative. It didn't happen, but it still could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 I laughed was worth it +1 good sir Yeah. Wish I had better news to go with it. I'm fairly certain this is staying, the trick now is giving enough feedback that DE can make it more accessible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gestalt Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 The new hotfix that came in just now really made the key costs MUCH MUCH lower. Now I don't have to spend every single nanospore and circuit that I've gather since last December (minus all the ones spent on crafting weapons and frames of course) on like... 10 or so Golem keys. What does everyone think about the change in key mats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiala Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 (edited) Okay just went in to look at the new hotfix... recipe numbers have dropped, they're a bit more manageable on the raw mats, but it appears the special mats, which my time calculation is mostly based on, is still the same. Assassinate: 5x golem Nav Coord 4000 x Nanospores 1000 x salvage 100 x Circuits Craft time 3 hours Exterminate: 5x Nav Coord 2500 x Nanospores 750 x Salvage 80 x Circuits So timewise remains the same but that changes my calculations for mats too... based on the same numbers as my previous post... 250,000 (2500x100) nanospores, 75,000 (750x100) salvage, and 8,000 (80 x 100) circuits to craft the regular derelict missions. Then we need the mats for the 40 assassinate missions, thats another 160,000(4000x40) nanospores, 40,000 (1000x40) salvage, and 4000 (100x40) circuits. Totaling up to 410,000 nanospores, 115,000 salvage, 12,000 circuits. Thats more manageable resource wise. I presently with approximately 229 hours of in mission playtime according to my profile, have the salvage and circuits, and about half the nanospores. But then theres the 120 hour craft time for the assasinate keys since you have to do them one at a time, and the 100 hours for the regular... 220 hours of crafting, though admittedly this can be done without being in the whole time just checking back now and then, 60 hours of grinding the special mats/fighting the boss... oi. Edited September 14, 2013 by Jiala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDirtTrooper Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 No matter how low they drop the cost of the keys, the double key wall will remain a horrible idea that someone should have slapped them for thinking of before it ever got this far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamte Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 (edited) The new hotfix that came in just now really made the key costs MUCH MUCH lower. Now I don't have to spend every single nanospore and circuit that I've gather since last December (minus all the ones spent on crafting weapons and frames of course) on like... 10 or so Golem keys. What does everyone think about the change in key mats? If they make them cheaper it will help. The biggest problem for me though is simply the design itself. When you require runs to get materials for other runs, which you need for the final runs, things multiply. If you look at my previous math, 5 hours of golem runs turn into 50 hours of just mission running to get the keys. A few things they could do to make this a lot better: First, remove the single build limit on the foundry. Now that we have to craft consumable gear items, this should be done anyways. If I could collect the mats for ten keys and craft ten keys, it'd seriously cut down on the giant time grind. Second, raise the drop rates on the nav coordinates or lower the requirements. As the math I did before showed, even if you got enough drops every run to make a key, it is still a fairly substantial 45 hours if the golem takes ten runs to drop all the parts. That means even just making one key to run the boss for fun is going to take 4 1/2 hours. That's a crazy, crazy investment for a single boss run. Third, make the keys potentially infinite use, in an interesting way. How about having an item hidden somewhere in the stage? This item (or maybe several pieces of an item spread over the stage) is special in that it's keyed to the navigation of the ship. Finding it in the stage allows you to recalibrate your key to work a second time. In short, if you're thorough and track down the item in each run, you will be able to use your key again. Rushing makes you lose it. This has the side effect of discouraging rushed play as well. It ensures, since each run will last longer, that there's still a significant investment. However it's now an investment spent playing, earning resources, fighting enemies, and enjoying the new tileset, rather than time waiting on the foundry timers. Could even make it only an 80-90% chance to be in the map too if you really didn't want "infinite" keys. Overall, I think it's much more reasonable to expect people to put 10-20 hours into this. I would probably take a while to get around to doing that, but I would do it. 45 in best case is just too much. I feel discouraged enough running a boss and not getting a BP drop when I'm just doing 5 minute boss rushes on normal stages. Having the boss not drop an item I need when that key took 4 1/2 hours of time to build would be heart wrenching. Edited September 14, 2013 by Zamte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f3llyn Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Put the material cost back to what it originally was and just make the damn things permanent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDirtTrooper Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 (edited) The easiest solution? Remove all the orokin derelict key blueprints other than assassination from the market, replace them with the ready to use keys that require no crafting. That's it. Bam. You're down to one key wall instead of two, and it starts to look like something that might be reasonable to try and do during a play session, as opposed to something that just made me close the game and decide I was never going to see the new tiles or acquire the new gear. Because that's where I'm sitting at right now, I think about doing it, and then just don't play the game. Why would I put up with these new horrible stamina mechanics just to grind for hours to see the new tile set, where I get to grind for hours just to make keys to see the new boss, who I'll have to grind over and over again to acquire the new warframe? Why would I do all that? And the key build times, with the component farming time, mean that I'm going to be doing it for not hours, but days and days. Edited September 14, 2013 by RedDirtTrooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rav102 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 (edited) They didnt make a mistake, they made a business choice. Its a fine one at that. They added longevity to the game. The only thing they need to do now is add the derelict levels to the plat purchases and they will be alot more set. This game gives players no reason to keep buying stuff from them once the end game has been reached. The derelicts could be something cheap, yet always in demand, thus always something to purchase. Other SUCCESSFUL f2p games have something people buy weekly if not daily to play the game happily. This game needs something like that. Totally agree. If people really want the new frame they buy it, if they dont want to buy it then the people actually have to work for it by actively playing the game, not just logging on for the vauban alerts. Also if they replaced the j3 golem, where would volt go? This was a brillant idea to actually make the game not a simple boss run over and over until you get the parts. I would say this, since the keys are more of a grind to get to there should be a 100% drop rate for one of the blueprints and a rare resource of some kind from the new Golem, in order to make it more viable. Overall though i think it was a well thought out and implemented patch. Edited September 14, 2013 by Rav102 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f3llyn Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 (edited) Totally agree. If people really want the new frame they buy it, if they dont want to buy it then the people actually have to work for it by actively playing the game, not just logging on for the vauban alerts. Also if they replaced the j3 golem, where would volt go? This was a brillant idea to actually make the game not a simple boss run over and over until you get the parts. I would say this, since the keys are more of a grind to get to there should be a 100%drop rate for one of the blueprints and a rare resource of some kind in order to make it more viable. Overall though i think it was a well thought out and implemented patch. Alternatively we could give feedback on the forum (the entire point of it) about why we don't like it and how they could possibly change it. Alternative to that we could just not play the game at all. At the end of the day warframe is just one source of entertainment. I have others. Edited September 14, 2013 by f3llyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog548 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 I really don't see the problem (now that recipes are fixed). It's one more thing on the list of things to achieve while I rip my ninja butt around space killing the crap out of things (sometimes with magic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumSmurf Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Suddenly that 375 playlt for necros sounds so inviting. I think ima just buy him cause knowing my luck ill have to run the site left like 20 times and at 9 grand salvage a pop. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rav102 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 (edited) Alternatively we could give feedback on the forum (the entire point of it) about why we don't like it and how they could possibly change it. Alternative to that we could just not play the game at all. At the end of the day warframe is just one source of entertainment. I have others. What exactly is your point...... i offered a solution, your post makes no sense.....There is also a difference between offering creative advise and pointless complaining which is what most of the posts are. Also if your going to use "offering feedback" as your excuse to complain may i direct you to https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/forum/21-gameplay-feedback/ the actual place for it. Edited September 14, 2013 by Rav102 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiala Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Totally agree. If people really want the new frame they buy it, if they dont want to buy it then the people actually have to work for it by actively playing the game, not just logging on for the vauban alerts. Also if they replaced the j3 golem, where would volt go? This was a brillant idea to actually make the game not a simple boss run over and over until you get the parts. I would say this, since the keys are more of a grind to get to there should be a 100% drop rate for one of the blueprints and a rare resource of some kind from the new Golem, in order to make it more viable. Overall though i think it was a well thought out and implemented patch. One of the other bosses, like Vor? Or *le gasp* have a boss that drops /two/ different warframe parts? I know that'd lower your chances for getting the part you need for the warframe but yeah, Volt could be moved around like that. But seriously, 60 hours of play time, 220 hours of craft time for a single frame is a bit much. Even Vauban didn't take that much grinding, and I actually crafted him. It did take about a month, but I was lucky enough to be on whenever a blueprint popped on alert for him. Its still more reasonable then the current state. 220 hours of craft time, even if you log in every hour or every 3 hours perfectly on time (eesh thats gonna mess with your goodnight's sleep or work schedule) Is around just over 9 days of waiting just to get into it, and 60 hours of actually playing the game... most people only spend an hour a day on it, thats 2 months of grinding, especially if they you know, actually have that mystical thing called a life, job and responsibilities. ... wish I could uninstall life sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rav102 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 One of the other bosses, like Vor? Or *le gasp* have a boss that drops /two/ different warframe parts? I know that'd lower your chances for getting the part you need for the warframe but yeah, Volt could be moved around like that. But seriously, 60 hours of play time, 220 hours of craft time for a single frame is a bit much. Even Vauban didn't take that much grinding, and I actually crafted him. It did take about a month, but I was lucky enough to be on whenever a blueprint popped on alert for him. Its still more reasonable then the current state. 220 hours of craft time, even if you log in every hour or every 3 hours perfectly on time (eesh thats gonna mess with your goodnight's sleep or work schedule) Is around just over 9 days of waiting just to get into it, and 60 hours of actually playing the game... most people only spend an hour a day on it, thats 2 months of grinding, especially if they you know, actually have that mystical thing called a life, job and responsibilities. ... wish I could uninstall life sometimes... Well use the money from the job you have to buy the frame..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiala Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Well use the money from the job you have to buy the frame..... Not exactly an option for alot of people. That money from that job may not be alot, things like rent, food, electrical bills, internet service, tend to eat up a healthy chunk of that money, so they come to games like warframe so that they can play games without invoking their landlord's wrath of eviction. The platnum I've got? That was a birthday gift from a friend, and its gotta last me till next year at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niryco Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Not exactly an option for alot of people. That money from that job may not be alot, things like rent, food, electrical bills, internet service, tend to eat up a healthy chunk of that money, so they come to games like warframe so that they can play games without invoking their landlord's wrath of eviction. The platnum I've got? That was a birthday gift from a friend, and its gotta last me till next year at least. The fact people are gifting you platinum makes you better off than some of us players who never ever touched platinum but the starting 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiala Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 The fact people are gifting you platinum makes you better off than some of us players who never ever touched platinum but the starting 50. True it does, and that serves to reinforce my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rav102 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Not exactly an option for alot of people. That money from that job may not be alot, things like rent, food, electrical bills, internet service, tend to eat up a healthy chunk of that money, so they come to games like warframe so that they can play games without invoking their landlord's wrath of eviction. The platnum I've got? That was a birthday gift from a friend, and its gotta last me till next year at least. Then play the game and get the frame and be that much more appreciative when you get it and actually feel you accomplished something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-SASMcBride Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 damn i must be stupid but can someone tell me what i have to do to get to kill golem for the new frame bps? i cant see anywhere it tells you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 (edited) damn i must be stupid but can someone tell me what i have to do to get to kill golem for the new frame bps? i cant see anywhere it tells you -Farm for materials -Craft Derelicts key (BP available in Marketplace) -Wait an hour -Play in Derelicts for ingredients for Derelicts: Assassination key (BP available in Marketplace) -Wait some more -Play the Assassination mission for a chance to get one of the three blueprints that you need Edited September 14, 2013 by SortaRandom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-SASMcBride Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 ahh kk thanks dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanityRobot Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 I've ran 6 since the patch hit. Quite the grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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