Anthem and what Warframe can learn from it

[Bacl]

On 2019-01-28 at 11:25 PM, _Urakaze_ said:

Seeing the VIP Demo, well the working portion anyway, really have some good mechanics/visuals that Warframe could take reference from.

1. Combo system

I know we have similar things in the form of combined elemental damage types. We can add more depth to it. In addition, this will be a good chance to buff some underperforming status effects/damage types. To illustrate my idea, I will use heat and magnetic as example

fire proc burns enemy and after 3 seconds, soften the armor and enemy armor is reduced by 50% for the duration of the heat proc. If magnetic proc is applied to enemy while the armor is soften, 50% of armor is stripped permanently.

the possibilities are infinite.

2. Customization

let us choose the texture and condition of warframes

3. Movement animation

I like how each javelin have their own movement set that fits their role/style and it adds immersion. Specifically the movement set of interceptor makes it feel more agile, which goes well with the assassin/ninja class

for warframes, we could add several different movement set base on classes/roles/styles that can be changed just like static animation, since adding unique movements for all warframes would be a huge pain

imagine Titania hovers while moving and shooting

another thing is the legs, they should adjust according to the terrain so that two feet are always stepping on the ground. Of course this is not a feature created by Bioware, but it is a nice detail that Warframe can have nonetheless.

 

just my 2cents

 

I am not too fond of the combo system to be honest, its good enough the way warframe is because a well prepared group can have a good synergy when it comes to frame skills.

I will agree on pretty much everything; DE could push the customization a little further by having "texture and finish" to color channels.

I am 200% behind the moving animation, keep the frame personal idle animation but in combat i would like a greater variety on these, 5 or 6 presets in combat would be enough to switch things up.

Now for the motivation, Anthem is always to push for better gear and higher difficulty, we have the difficulty in warframe but we do not have anything to motivate us into doing long runs and push back the liits because the mod system is limited. Once all you mods are maxed out and your build is set, you have your arcanes and then what? The only things we could push for are cosmetics but again going for these would affects DE economics since this is their most important income source. However if we could get a particular skin or cosmetic for a limited time and the requirement would be to push an endless mission for a while that could be motivation enough or a way to earn platinum in endless mission (non tradable platinum) to browse in the store could be something to consider as well.

[(PSN)Boardtodeath_TV]

1 hour ago, Pr1A said:

Please stop with these clickbaity, zero-effort comparison videos. We already had enough of those with Destiny 2.

OK, ok fine... I did it for fun, late at night, but I do have to say there was some effort into doing it lol. Will not post dumb videos anymore, only informative, helpful videos in this forum. Thanks! 

[Kaotyke]

13 minutes ago, Bacl said:

Now for the motivation, Anthem is always to push for better gear and higher difficulty, we have the difficulty in warframe but we do not have anything to motivate us into doing long runs and push back the liits because the mod system is limited. Once all you mods are maxed out and your build is set, you have your arcanes and then what? The only things we could push for are cosmetics but again going for these would affects DE economics since this is their most important income source. However if we could get a particular skin or cosmetic for a limited time and the requirement would be to push an endless mission for a while that could be motivation enough or a way to earn platinum in endless mission (non tradable platinum) to browse in the store could be something to consider as well.

I think said they all adress this with the "Wolf of Saturn"? Dont remember if thats the name. WHat they said it would be like a seasonal thing, like... a Battle Pass where you can get the limited time cosmetics where everything is "Play to get".

[Mr.Fluffins]

47 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

exactly my point. things in wf doesnt change either. only thing that changes are, just like anthem, numbers. enemies hit harder and so will you. only difference is in anthem you get progression from doing that, in warframe de actively avoids that to keep content "bite sized" for some reason.

Bite sized content is one of the main reason I, and I am sure many others, play Warframe in the first place. And, regarding difficulty, on higher levels in Warframe you also encounter new enemy types and new conditions (arbitration drones, sortie modifiers). Anthem so far only provided bigger enemy numbers to challenge and equialize player's increasing numbers... meaning you will be doing literally the same dungeons and missions you did many hours and gear levels ago over and over.

On the topic matter, I looked at the title again, and realized what irks me so much.

Anthem is not a bad game (when we ignore the technical issues and the EA mark), I am positive that it will gain its audience and be popular.

However, it's not innovative, it's not daring. It didn't really bring anything new to the table. Sure, the elements it has are of reasonable quality, but all of them are something we have seen before. The setting is not really unique, the movement mechanics aren't, the combat isn't, and the core gameplay loop is surely not new.

So while Anthem can be a good game (again, ignoring EA being the publisher and the multitude of bugs that I have encountered), is it something so breathtaking, that DE devs have to grab notebooks and take notes? Absolutely not, not by any stretch of the imagination.

It's not Half-life or Doom of shooters, and not even Dead Space of horrors. It's, based on my demo experience, a potentially competent tactical grind shooter with nice visuals and good movement system and customization, nothing more.

 

[Bacl]

1 minute ago, Kaotyke said:

I think said they all adress this with the "Wolf of Saturn"? Dont remember if thats the name. WHat they said it would be like a seasonal thing, like... a Battle Pass where you can get the limited time cosmetics where everything is "Play to get".

I remember seeing the picture for that event but didnt really get the details for it. That is nice however we need a more permanent solution and not just event base.

I will probably get a lot of flak for this but a "warframe riven" that would be untradable and that would be rolled for always superior but random stats  a bit like in Diablo or anthem where you get a legendary and you can have different stats on it, or rolling for the individual stats on that mod itself using a special ressource found only in long endless runs. That would be a good motivation to grind in long runs, well would do it for me at least.

[Mr.Fluffins]

27 minutes ago, Bacl said:

Now for the motivation, Anthem is always to push for better gear and higher difficulty, we have the difficulty in warframe but we do not have anything to motivate us into doing long runs and push back the liits because the mod system is limited. Once all you mods are maxed out and your build is set, you have your arcanes and then what? The only things we could push for are cosmetics but again going for these would affects DE economics since this is their most important income source. However if we could get a particular skin or cosmetic for a limited time and the requirement would be to push an endless mission for a while that could be motivation enough or a way to earn platinum in endless mission (non tradable platinum) to browse in the store could be something to consider as well.

Oh god, not with this again... "Oh I have all mods maxed. all weapons formaed and rivened, operator maxed out and all arcanes maxed, I have nothing else to do, the game is too easy, has no endame..." JUST STOP. After 500 hours I STILL don't have all prime mods and arcanes maxed. I have seen people with 1000 of hours who never touched Eidolons. If you rushed all endgame stuff and all you care about is more rewards and not the gameplay itself, well too bad, not a single game can help you, except for PvP focused games or hardcore korean MMOs, where you have to play 5+ hours a day just to get anywhere.

And excuse me, what are you gonna do in Anthem once you have maxed gear and can solo hardest difficulty stronghold? What then? Will it also magically become "too easy, no endgame"? And can you honestly say that you expect Anthem on launch, or even a few months later, to take the same or more time than Warframe to max out everything and faceroll endgame?

Edited February 4, 2019 by Mr.Fluffins

[DeMonkey]

8 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

And excuse me, what are you gonna do in Anthem once you have maxed gear and can solo hardest difficulty stronghold? What then? Will it also magically become "too easy, no endgame"? And can you honestly say that you expect Anthem on launch, or even a few months later, to take the same or more time than Warframe to max out everything and faceroll endgame?

We have no idea how it'll turn out, but one thing is for certain, it will be more challenging than Warframe, and thus will reduce the ability to steamroll.

Call it artificial difficulty or whatever you like, it's guaranteed to be harder.

There's no ability that makes you permanently immortal or unhittable, cooldowns stop ability spam, it lacks huge wide range AoE that goes through walls and scales in damage, etc and so forth.

In fact, in this case the two games are almost incomparable. Anthem doesn't have anywhere near the same steamroll potential that Warframe does based on what we've seen.

[rune_me]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I dont really think you get the point or idea of why it is bad.

In WF or most other games you have actual levels of enemies, things gradually get harder (though WF is a power fantasy in that regard). In a PL based game like Anthem and Martyr which I mentioned there is just an illusion of progress because you are in reality getting nowhere. It may be less noticable in Anthem because it may not be visually present except on a difficulty option screen or something. But it is still there. It isnt even comparable to the open-ended game that WF is when it comes to progression, few games actually are. Progression here is simply for ourselves what we make it. Pets, weapons, frames, mods, MR, standing etc. There are so many different progression paths to pick from and they all bring us something we need or want.

In Martyr you have strict PL values on gear and missions, so the game plays out 99% the same if you do a PL500 mission at PL250 as it would if you played a PL2500 mission at PL2250. The mobs will do X% more damage to you'll deal Y% less to them. The baseline damage from both of you is the same, so it wouldnt matter how high or low you go aslong as the PL difference is the same. This in turn makes it completely pointless to progress. After you reach level 25 iirc in Martyr you've gotten to the point where gear will have the highest possible stats (well that is semi true becasue the devs added 0.5 extra to certain stats when they released level 60 gear, just because people had complained about the boring system), so the only thing to advance you after that is power levels on gear. This in order to balance stat gains so you dont have 2 million HP and +5000% physical damage at max level etc.

It may look good at paper but in reality it is a complete trash system even if it avoids the inflated damage and health numbers.

So the only things that may actually change are the mobs you fight and the environment, but that gets old after a few play throughs when there is nothing to hunt from said mobs or anything to build further on your character.

The thing about looters is, that 95% of the progression is not in the lvl of the character, but in the gear you collect and equip, and the abilities you have avilable. So even when enemies scales with your level, you should still become progressively more powerful if the game is well designed, because your gear becomes better. With access to new skills and better gear, you begin to feel stronger as you have more options available to you. Yeah sure you may technically do the same percentage of damage to the enemy, but if you used to hit one enemy every time you clicked the mouse, when you suddenly have access to an attack that hits one enemy ten times with a fire attack, and a skill that doubles your fire damage, you are still much better off than before. 

[Mr.Fluffins]

8 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

We have no idea how it'll turn out, but one thing is for certain, it will be more challenging than Warframe, and thus will reduce the ability to steamroll.

Call it artificial difficulty or whatever you like, it's guaranteed to be harder.

There's no ability that makes you permanently immortal or unhittable, cooldowns stop ability spam, it lacks huge wide range AoE that goes through walls and scales in damage, etc and so forth.

In fact, in this case the two games are almost incomparable. Anthem doesn't have anywhere near the same steamroll potential that Warframe does based on what we've seen.

We have no idea how it turns out, but yet you are already certain that it will be more challenging than Warframe... right.

Now, I could say that, after hundreds and thousands of hours of gametime, it should be expected that the game seems easier, and that it most likely isn't for new players. I, for instance, found many zones in the game challenging or even barely doable on my first 50-80 or so hours.

I could also ask, do you really expect Anthem to remain challenging to players who invested hundreds and thousands of hours into it.

However, what I really want to ask is the following - what is the real difference between having DR so high that enemies can't kill you unless you let them, and damage so large that you oneshot everyone with your guns and abilities, and having spammable abilities and long immortality phases (both can be hindered and removed by enemies, mind you)? I see none, so the argument stands. Both are examples of reaching the state of power and experience when the game cannot really challenge you anymore.

[Bacl]

1 minute ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

Oh god, not with this again... "Oh I have all mods maxed. all weapons formaed and rivened, operator maxed out and all arcanes maxed, I have nothing else to do, the game is too easy, has no endame..." JUST STOP. After 500 hours I STILL don't have all prime mods and arcanes maxed. I have seen people with 1000 of hours who never touched Eidolons. If you rushed all endgame stuff and all you care about is more rewards and not the gameplay itself, well too bad, not a single game can help you, except for PvP focused games or hardcore korean MMOs, where you have to play 5+ hours a day just to get anywhere.

And excuse, what are you gonna do in Anthem once you have maxed gear and can solo hardest difficulty stronghold? What then? Will it also magically become "too easy, no endgame"? And can you honestly say that you expect Anthem on launch, or even a few months later, to take the same amount of time as Warframe to max out everything and faceroll endgame?

In Anthem (well they spoke about it) or Diablo 3 you have the Rifts: You have a procedural level to clear with a boss at the end that has endless difficulty but also rewards you at the end with loots that can potentially allow you to push further and beat your previous run, this is fun, challenging and most important of all, sustainable.

In Warfare however the mod system is limiting this but also there is no incentive to run long endless missions. Back in the days when we had keys to get the primes parts we could saty in missions for hours and reaping the rewards at the end, it was glorious and satisfying to do but now the relic system quite killed it, tell me why would you do a 4 hours + endless mission?

Also i have almost 2,5k hours in Warframe currently so no, i didnt rush into the endgame of this game (that is lacking). I played almost from the beta,  followed the evolution of the game over the years and got to the point i am right now in a pretty organic fashion, didnt rush anything and pretty much tried it all but i really hit the wall once i got all my arcanes... riven farming could have been a good endgame motivation but the way it was implemented completely ruined the concept.

So far Diablo III and maybe Anthem are doing the endgame content far better than Warframe ever did, its sad to say but its the truth. The true endgame for Warframe is the endless mission type but now we have no more reasons to play it for its endless nature, even endless kuva is not worth running past the 40 minutes because the reward do not scale with the difficulty increase. Our warframes stall while the enemies are scaling to no end and once again, no rewards worth investing the time and efforts, i can solo Tridolons in a reasonable time frame and even run them with under optimized builds just for the fun of it and the Porfit taker was fun at first but the fight itself is pretty much a joke.

 

Just need a descent reason to go back to endless missions the true endgame of Warframe.

 

P.S. By the great science who are you? The grand moral arbiter that judges others opinion and deems them worthless? If you get triggered by another player simply expressing his opinion on a particular matter maybe you should do something else... From your great 500 hours of play you cant really judge anyone and you have no clue on how i play the game and how i got to the point i am now so get off your high horse.

[rune_me]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

Now, I could say that, after hundreds and thousands of hours of gametime, it should be expected that the game seems easier, and that it most likely isn't for new players. I, for instance, found many zones in the game challenging or even barely doable on my first 50-80 or so hours.

I can't say that has been my experience. The only time I ever died in Warframe (as in failed a mission) was in endless missions when I stayed to long, or when I always failed spy missions when I was still new to the game). Even back as a new player, actually getting killed and running out of revives seemed next to impossible. And I am in no way, shape or form a great player when it comes to shooters. In fact I tend to find them difficult. Warframe is a great game and the gunplay is enormously fun. But it is absolutely also one of the easiest and least challenging shooters I have played. Which is probably why I like it to be honest, because I tend to suck at them.

[Mr.Fluffins]

16 minutes ago, Bacl said:

In Anthem (well they spoke about it) or Diablo 3 you have the Rifts: You have a procedural level to clear with a boss at the end that has endless difficulty but also rewards you at the end with loots that can potentially allow you to push further and beat your previous run, this is fun, challenging and most important of all, sustainable.

In Warfare however the mod system is limiting this but also there is no incentive to run long endless missions. Back in the days when we had keys to get the primes parts we could saty in missions for hours and reaping the rewards at the end, it was glorious and satisfying to do but now the relic system quite killed it, tell me why would you do a 4 hours + endless mission?

Also i have almost 2,5k hours in Warframe currently so no, i didnt rush into the endgame of this game (that is lacking). I played almost from the beta,  followed the evolution of the game over the years and got to the point i am right now in a pretty organic fashion, didnt rush anything and pretty much tried it all but i really hit the wall once i got all my arcanes... riven farming could have been a good endgame motivation but the way it was implemented completely ruined the concept.

So far Diablo III and maybe Anthem are doing the endgame content far better than Warframe ever did, its sad to say but its the truth. The true endgame for Warframe is the endless mission type but now we have no more reasons to play it for its endless nature, even endless kuva is not worth running past the 40 minutes because the reward do not scale with the difficulty increase. Our warframes stall while the enemies are scaling to no end and once again, no rewards worth investing the time and efforts, i can solo Tridolons in a reasonable time frame and even run them with under optimized builds just for the fun of it and the Porfit taker was fun at first but the fight itself is pretty much a joke.

 

Just need a descent reason to go back to endless missions the true endgame of Warframe.

 

P.S. By the great science who are you? The grand moral arbiter that judges others opinion and deems them worthless? If you get triggered by another player simply expressing his opinion on a particular matter maybe you should do something else... From your great 500 hours of play you cant really judge anyone and you have no clue on how i play the game and how i got to the point i am now so get off your high horse.

I get "triggered' because I have seen this argument so many times, and I don't understand why other people can' grasp the idea, that after a certain point (and 1k hours is a good point). you have just played enough of the game, and it's not the game's fault that you are not entertained anymore. I also don't understand people who want rewards above all in videogames, and apparently don't enjoy the process itself enough anymore. I mean, if they made a super duper endless run that gave a mega riven mod at the end of a 4 hour run, what would you do with that? You ALREADY are powerful enough to complete the super duper run, what are you going to use the mod for? To beat it harder?

I also don't believe that greater rifts are a good example of endgame. In fact, IMHO it's a lazy solution that just masks the lack of real endgame. I would rather prefer a system where there is a certain set highest bar, once you reached it, congratulations, with an option to scale it as much as you want for the challenge itself. Nothing stops you from spending hours in solo arbitration, now does it? So when you, and others with similar ideas, suggest the idea of an "infinite" scaling rewards endgame, expect people who would be against it.

Oh, and regarding 4h+ runs - not a single game in existence, as far as I remember, made me stay that long in a game for a single mission, and it should stay that way. Doing Prodman solo was already tiring and boring enough, and that was only an hour in index... Again, if it's something that you like, no problem, but don't expect many people to be particularly excited about rewards being gated after even 1 hour long sessions, not to mention 4 hour long.

P.S. There is this increased talk about amazing engame of Anthem, a game that WAS NOT EVEN RELEASED. I think it's a bit odd.

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Mr.Fluffins

[Zeclem]

51 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

Bite sized content is one of the main reason I, and I am sure many others, play Warframe in the first place. And, regarding difficulty, on higher levels in Warframe you also encounter new enemy types and new conditions (arbitration drones, sortie modifiers). Anthem so far only provided bigger enemy numbers to challenge and equialize player's increasing numbers... meaning you will be doing literally the same dungeons and missions you did many hours and gear levels ago over and over.

bite sized content approach is the reason why warframe fails to keep its playerbase constant and have the forums screech in "content draught". and you dont encounter those conditions or enemies in higher difficulties, you encounter them on specific mission types. and even then, they dont really change the amount of challenge provided by the game at all. 

[DeMonkey]

17 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

We have no idea how it turns out, but yet you are already certain that it will be more challenging than Warframe... right.

Yes. Why are you making me repeat myself? Just read my post properly the first time.

Anthem doesn't have any form of permanent invulnerability, or a permanent damage avoidance. This means that, unlike in Warframe, enemy damage actually plays a role.

Anthem has cooldowns on abilities, stopping them from being spammed.

These alone make the game more challenging due it not being trivialized. This is a fact.

Whether the endgame is made easy remains to be seen, but it isn't comparable to Warframe at all.

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

It's probably because of Tennogen. It is, in all respects (imo), better than immortal skins, and certainly more profitable.

And less process intensive on their part most likely too.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

"Anthem and what Warframe can learn from it" would be better suited to the Anthem forum? I know GD isn't the right place to be putting feedback for DE, but there's absolutely no chance of them reading it on an entirely separate forum.

Yes. Because it's needlessly divisive and accomplishes nothing here.

Given that the bulk of what people are calling "feedback" is either redundant, specious, or evidence of style choice how is it even relevant to begin with?

Feedback, by design, is actionable...Most of the feedback being cited isn't. 

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Not so sure about that, they have kept doing them, but the occasional one has been released via Baro instead of platinum. In fact, there's absolutely no platinum purchase for them at all, which I heavily disagree with.

Why do we think that is? I, personally, can't recall the last time I saw a player sporting a Market immortal skin tbh. Could it be that they don't sell as well? I have no clue.

Also, I don't recall that many being on offer to begin with for Warframes from that channel...Mirage is the only one I can think of.

So it seems like they made the time to make one... unless I am mistaken.

[rune_me]

16 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

P.S. There is this increased talk about amazing engame of Anthem, a game that WAS NOT EVEN RELEASED. I think it's a bit odd.

Where? All I've heard talk of on the intrawebs is that there currently isn't any real endgame in Anthem and that it will be added gradually in later updates. I have yet to see anyone claiming that the endgame in Anthem will be amazing, since no one actually knows what it will look like.

Edited February 4, 2019 by rune_me

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Yes. Because it's needlessly divisive and accomplishes nothing here.

Given that the bulk of what people are calling "feedback" is either redundant, specious, or evidence of style choice how is it even relevant to begin with?

Feedback, by design, is actionable...Most of the feedback being cited isn't. 

Again, I'm not seeing it the same way you are, at all. How is a suggestion for better animations, such as legs properly responding to the ground we're standing on, irrelevant?

6 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Why do we think that is? I, personally, can't recall the last time I saw a player sporting a Market immortal skin tbh. Could it be that they don't sell as well? I have no clue.

Also, I don't recall that many being on offer to begin with for Warframes from that channel...Mirage is the only one I can think of.

So it seems like they made the time to make one... unless I am mistaken.

Likely because all the frames that have immortal skins have better skins available.

However, what about Garuda? She has no skins, if an immortal skin were shipped with her on release you can bet people would buy it. It may not be a great option, but it is an option, and when it's the only option it'll be sold.

There have been 3 to my knowledge, Mirage, Hydroid and Zephyr.

[Bacl]

7 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

I get "triggered' because I have seen this argument so many times, and I don't understand why other people can' grasp the idea, that after a certain point (and 1k hours is a good point). you have just played enough of the game, and it's not the game's fault that you are not entertained anymore. I also don't understand people who want rewards above all in videogames, and apparently don't enjoy the process itself enough anymore. I mean, if they made a super duper endless run that gave a mega riven mod at the end of a 4 hour run, what would you do with that? You ALREADY are powerful enough to complete the super duper run, what are you going to use the mod for? To beat it harder?

I also don't believe that greater rifts are a good example of endgame. In fact, IMHO it's a lazy solution that just masks the lack of real endgame. I would rather prefer a system where there is a certain set highest bar, once you reached it, congratulations, with an option to scale it as much as you want for the challenge itself. Nothing stops you from spending hours in solo arbitration, now does it? So when you, and others with similar ideas, suggest the idea of an "infinite" scaling rewards endgame, expect people who would be against it.

Oh, and regarding 4h+ runs - not a single game in existence, as far as I remember, made me stay that long in a game for a single mission, and it should stay that way. Doing Prodman solo was already tiring and boring enough, and that was only an hour in index... Again, if it's something that you like, no problem, but don't expect many people to be particularly excited about rewards being gated after even 1 hour long sessions, not to mention 4 hour long.

P.S. There is this increased talk about amazing engame of Anthem, a game that WAS NOT EVEN RELEASED. I think it's a bit odd.

 

On your first point: You get triggered by a opinion because its common and it comes back all the time, maybe its because those always bringing that up could use that in the game to keep playing? So if you dont like that content why would you deny it from other players who actually ask for it, avoid that particular content and you will be happy. Food for thought.

Second point: I am still playing this game over 2k hours so do not pretend i do not enjoy the gameplay anymore, if i wasnt i would be on something else. However to play the hours i used to play back in the days i need the incentive to play otherwise i will just pop in, do a few things and log out because i do not have the will or the motivation to do something more demanding like and endless mission.

Third point, "I mean, if they made a super duper endless run that gave a mega riven mod at the end of a 4 hour run, what would you do with that? You ALREADY are powerful enough to complete the super duper run, what are you going to use the mod for? To beat it harder?"

Well yes, this is a progression and it would give me the motivation to play that thing, like i said before the mods we have are limiting things but in other games where your stats are based upon your gear you can always have a bit better drop allowing you to push further. yes i would like that and Warframe has the potential to do so.

Fourth point: I already soloed a 2 hours Arbitration just for the gig of it and i got nothing for it, been there done that but no more reasons to go for it again since i got all the special mods and equipment from it.

Sixth point: Why would you be against endless scaling anyways, its just to stop other people from enjoying this or  because you dont like it shouldnt even be considered?

Seventh point: You never stayed more than 4 hours in a mission in a game ever, nothing wrong with that but you are in no position to deny it to other players who enjoys it and you shouldn't advocate for its removal. As for the rewards that are time gated, you would still have the option to not do these but it would be a good incentive to do long missions, prepare for it and feel the satisfaction of said reward after completing that challenge.

Final point: The thing about the Anthem engame is based upon the game mechanic: Endless level of difficulty that is tied to the stats upon your gear, you will always be a little underpower compared to the challenge ahead but upon completion you may get out stronger and able to raise that difficulty again. You could argue that this is stupid and meaningless but if you remove that well you have no point to play as soon you reach max level ( hmm could this relate to another game, i wonder).

[Bacl]

13 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Where? All I've heard talk of on the intrawebs is that there currently isn't any real endgame in Anthem and that it will be added gradually in later updates. I have yet to see anyone claiming that the endgame in Anthem will be amazing, since no one actually knows what it will look like.

Endgame as a mode we do not know but the endless difficulty scaling and stats based upon loot will allows for endless progression. With that in place all anthem need to do is to add variety; it is a very simple concept but very hard to implement properly  so only time will tell.

Just mechanical wise however i think it is better that the Mod system in warframe because the mods once they are maxed well you reached the limit.

[EmberStar]

1 hour ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

And excuse me, what are you gonna do in Anthem once you have maxed gear and can solo hardest difficulty stronghold?

You can't solo Strongholds, the devs have apparently said outright that they're team-exclusive content.  Even if you arranged with friends to start the mission and then three of them log out, the game still considers you to be a valid target for public matchmaking and their "reinforcement" system.  You can queue up to specifically drop into a mission or stronghold that's already in progress.  You get additional rewards, they get a random team mate.  Even if they don't want one.  "I'm helping!"

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 hours ago, Arcira said:

Maybe, maybe not. I´m trying to expose hate and fake arguments. This will probably not change the behaviour of those people because I think they are quite aware of what they are doing and why. But it might help others who are a little bit more open minded.

So Warframe fans shouldn't be Warframe fans on a Warframe forum now? K.

2 hours ago, Arcira said:

I don´t care about Anthem yet nor did I play it thus I have no real opinion on the game so far. And it doesn´t matter because what I said is true for other games likewise.

In addition you didn´t even reply to the context of the sentence. Those and other similar comments make me feel people are on a personal crusade against anything that isn´t warframe. I like warframe but I can accept if another game do something good or even better.

How do you "expose hate and fake arguments" with no basis to do so to begin with? That sounds a bit disingenuous to me.

Again, you are on the Warframe Forum...You can hope for objective and reasonable discussion regarding another game...But you shouldn't necessarily expect it....That's Sociology 101.

Regrettably, This is a concept that appears to be eluding you and a number of others.

As to context...

What we do know is that Warframe has been around for 5 years, been constantly iterated, and has remained profitable in a F2P setting.

But, as you noted, you disagree that this (even though it's objective fact) is actually the operatively important question. 

Even though...

• If people won't play it, it won't make money.
• If people won't say good things about it...Others won't play it.
• DE had to figure out how to navigate just such a scenario.
• Bioware hs not managed to do so.

Given EA and Bioware's reputations for being predatory, it had better be the first thing on their mind... Because it's the first thing on almost everyone else's.

Do I trust them not to royally screw me over this time around? Is the largest question Anthem has around it...but you and others are on "What Warframe can learn from it".

DE had to figure out a way to do it with a F2P model while maintaining profitability

Arenanet had to do the same thing.

Bioware's only live service endeavor does none of these things and asks that you either pay 140 bucks a year in a sub or enjoy very limited access and pay 40 bucks a year instead to keep up with the narrative. 

You seem to expect a different outcome even though it's being managed by the same group.

2 hours ago, Arcira said:

Not sure what you want to tell me here.

Bluntly? That the bulk of what you are complaining about is specious.

2 hours ago, Arcira said:

Essentially anything I say or write is an assumption and I´m willing to lern where my logic is flawed. What exactly do you disagree with and why?

- you need to test something to be sure it doesn´t work

- if people are interested it can be worth a try

- you shouldn´t assume you are the best only based on your success

Happy to clear this up and I'll note all three just to be helpful.

-It's been tested and still is...Where's the discussion? Specious.

-"Worth" assigns motive... In this case profit. They've had skins and they don't make them often now for market...Why do we think that is? Had it proved profitable they'd continue doing it...Instead, they implemented tennogen which gets increased regularly... Obvious profit channel. Specious.

-Since there is no evidence of that having happened...Why bring it up? Specious.

Here's the thing for the multitude that haven't, or won't, grasp this concept

I don't care if you are an Anthem fan, are mentally uncoupling from Warframe, or are disgruntled due to lack of "whatever" @DeMonkey

I don't fear the advent of Anthem...In fact, I am quite excited about the competition as the outcome favors me regardless. @A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

But bashing Warframe players on a Warframe forum for not being for Anthem or wanting anything to do with it?

...That's nuts. 

• Why get mad that the game has dedicated and devoted players?
• Why get mad that there are players that don't trust EA?
• Why get mad that there are players that don't trust Bioware?

This is, literally, the one place that you should...So stop getting mad and complaining about the injustices of people being biased on a group forum for an entirely different game.

[DeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

I don't care if you are an Anthem fan, are mentally uncoupling from Warframe, or are disgruntled due to lack of "whatever" @DeMonkey

None of the above? I'm simply keeping an open mind and wish to encourage others to do the same thing.

Yes, I'm suggesting that people don't get so defensive, I don't see how there's any need for it.

[Rakosta_Kai]

40 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Again, I'm not seeing it the same way you are, at all. How is a suggestion for better animations, such as legs properly responding to the ground we're standing on, irrelevant?

Well, I would imagine a discussion regarding animations wouldn't take this many pages for one.

...it would also probably belong in a feedback or bugs post with much less airy commentary for another.

Here it's just divisive and irrelevant as it reads like, "Anthem has X...Why doesn't Warframe have X?" ...That's just my opinion though.

43 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Likely because all the frames that have immortal skins have better skins available.

However, what about Garuda? She has no skins, if an immortal skin were shipped with her on release you can bet people would buy it. It may not be a great option, but it is an option, and when it's the only option it'll be sold.

That means we've spotted that where the profit is seems to be tennogen then, yeah?

 

Garuda got that bloodshed sigil with her Bundle...Counts as a generic skin imo since it occurs all over.

TBH, The bloodhsed sigil was interesting as a buy...an immortal skin? Not so much.

 

[EmberStar]

26 minutes ago, Bacl said:

Endgame as a mode we do not know but the endless difficulty scaling and stats based upon loot will allows for endless progression. With that in place all anthem need to do is to add variety; it is a very simple concept but very hard to implement properly  so only time will tell.

Just mechanical wise however i think it is better that the Mod system in warframe because the mods once they are maxed well you reached the limit.

I wasn't super impressed with how gear / weapons are generated.  I'm sure it was a bug, but I was often getting ability mods with bonus stats for the *wrong* kind of armor.  Interceptor powers that boosted damage on Ranger-only powers, usually.  Aside from that, the bonuses were minimal, and only stat based.  "Oh, wow.  I've got a machine pistol that does 20 points of damage per shot, and boosts base damage by... 5%.  Whoopee."  Since the bonuses are selected entirely at random from a what seemed to be a fairly large pool of possible outcomes, good luck even trying to stack them.  Maybe the Legendary items will have unique modifiers.  It's impossible to say, because only Rare (blue) items could possibly drop in the demo, and Legendary items are two tiers higher than that.  (They're apparently supposed to be incredibly rare even at the level cap.)

It's the same problem I had with loot in Borderlands 2.  Yeah, it's randomly generated and there are "millions and millions" of combos.  The vast majority of which are completely useless.  On the bright side, you can take time at the end of each mission and melt down all the garbage items (which is almost all of them) for crafting materials so that they aren't consuming storage slots.  Really, you just scan through and look for anything that gives bigger numbers than what you're holding, and junk the rest.  Unless gaining character levels is incredibly slow, there's no point in holding onto any given item.  There's no trading system at all, so the moment you out-level an item it's just wasting a slot you should be using for anything with better base stats.

I would have been more impressed if weapons generated with a chance to do elemental damage, for example.  Flaming or lightning or exploding bullets that could be used as part of the combo system.  Pretty sure ME3 had some form of that.  Even in multiplayer I seem to remember there were consumable items that gave your bullets a chance at elemental effects you could use to trigger combo explosions.  At least in the demo, Anthem doesn't have that.  So the damage system is based around using combos to kill the meat-sponge enemies faster, but you can only trigger a combo once every minute or two.  Not really sure, since how long a power takes to recharge isn't included in the stats it shows when you equip it.  You have to just use it and realize.... "oh.  I can throw two ice darts.  Once every two minutes.  That's... fun."  It didn't really feel that interesting or satisfying to use powers because of the long recharge times.  (And yeah, when you're being swarmed by fifteen scorpion-spider-ant things and can freeze *one* of them every thirty seconds to try to trigger a combo, thirty seconds is a really long time.)

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Padre_Akais said:

it would also probably belong in a feedback or bugs post with much less airy commentary for another.

Yes, I've already stated as much, GD is not the place for this.

But I wholly expect similar comments to appear even if it were in feedback.

2 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

That means we've spotted that where the profit is seems to be tennogen then, yeah?

 

Garuda got that bloodshed sigil with her Bundle...Counts as a generic skin imo since it occurs all over.

TBH, The bloodhsed sigil was interesting as a buy...an immortal skin? Not so much.

I... don't count that as a skin at all to be honest with you. Ignoring the fact that it appears slightly buggy with Garuda and seems to apply differently to her, on it's own it's barely noticeable unless you take an unrealistic amount of damage.

Garuda is ofc not the only example, what about Baruuk? Additional cosmetics for new frames would sell.

Doesn't change the fact that DE have continued to make them, and could easily monetise it.