Anthem and what Warframe can learn from it

[Corvid]

3 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

The boosted flight model is awful, imo, because you drift alot because of the inertia, and you don't move naturally when boosting. Again, you're not moving on a curve when turning. Your character just turns in the direction of movement and the archwing drifts in that direction. It's intuitive, but the boosted flight isn't natural. If DE would get rid of the inertia and improve the boosted flight model, then I think it would be better than what's in Anthem.

You should note that my discussion with EmberStar is specifically pertaining to the non-boosted flight. I agree that the way momentum is handled has much room for improvement.

[birdobash]

5 hours ago, Corvid said:

Last I checked, pressing forward while on the ground and facing down doesn't merge you into the floor.

You're the first person I've seen who has a problem with the way it controls. Handling tends to be the issue that gets brought up, which I will agree is flawed, but the way actions are bound to keys is pretty much never brought up as an issue.

If they truly were "Garbage", I'd expect to at least see a few people backing you up on this point by now.

They are garbage. There I got him some backup

The fact that in skywing your character literally turns their face in the direction you're directional buttons are being pushed (when not pressing shift) means you'll be facing backwards and being unable to shoot forward, and if you try to aim down sights while pressing backwards in skywing your frame does a 180, but first does a HUGE u-turn, then if you let go it does another Huge u-turn back in the other direction. Basically you cannot shoot or even aim down sights in skywing if you don't want to completely lose control of your movement.

Also people have been complaining about skywing since its conception, I'm no sure what rock you've been living under to not hear even a peep about it when it frequents any archwing related discussions anywhere.

Edited February 8, 2019 by birdobash

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

5 hours ago, Corvid said:

Last I checked, pressing forward while on the ground and facing down doesn't merge you into the floor.

You're the first person I've seen who has a problem with the way it controls. Handling tends to be the issue that gets brought up, which I will agree is flawed, but the way actions are bound to keys is pretty much never brought up as an issue.

If they truly were "Garbage", I'd expect to at least see a few people backing you up on this point by now.

Are you actually flaming someone because they have an opinion you haven’t heard before? Lol, how dare they express something that you haven’t read before!

It’s almost like an opinion has to start somewhere 😐

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

Are you actually flaming someone because they have an opinion you haven’t heard before? Lol, how dare they express something that you haven’t read before!

It’s almost like an opinion has to start somewhere 😐

Take your common sense and leave, please.

[Corvid]

6 hours ago, birdobash said:

The fact that in skywing your character literally turns their face in the direction you're directional buttons are being pushed (when not pressing shift) means you'll be facing backwards and being unable to shoot forward, and if you try to aim down sights while pressing backwards in skywing your frame does a 180, but first does a HUGE u-turn, then if you let go it does another Huge u-turn back in the other direction. Basically you cannot shoot or even aim down sights in skywing if you don't want to completely lose control of your movement.

That's odd. When I use Skywing, my character always faces the reticle when not boosting, and aiming is responsive. Have you tried toggling the Experimental Flight option? Might solve your problem.

6 hours ago, birdobash said:

Also people have been complaining about skywing since its conception, I'm no sure what rock you've been living under to not hear even a peep about it when it frequents any archwing related discussions anywhere.

If you'd actually read my comment, you'd see that I am well aware of there being complaints. All of the stuff you mentioned comes under "Handling", which as I mentioned is the point of contention that most have with the system.

6 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

Are you actually flaming someone because they have an opinion you haven’t heard before? Lol, how dare they express something that you haven’t read before!

It’s almost like an opinion has to start somewhere 😐

Who's flaming? All I'm doing is pointing out that he's the only person I've seen to complain about the way Skywing controls, as opposed to how it handles. Even birdobash doesn't break this trend.

An opinion certainly does need to start from a small source. The thing is, EmberStar has been complaining about their specific issue for months, and not once have I seen him validated or seconded. Still haven't.

For clarity, EmberStar's issue (and consequently, our disagreement) specifically pertains to the fact that non-boosted flight has you maintain altitude while moving if you do not press the jump, crouch or boost buttons, regardless of your view's inclination. With regards to momentum, and the issues birdobash et al have mentioned, I am in full agreement that improvements need to be made.

[birdobash]

7 minutes ago, Corvid said:

That's odd. When I use Skywing, my character always faces the reticle when not boosting, and aiming is responsive. Have you tried toggling the Experimental Flight option? Might solve your problem.

Experimental flight options is in fact something I havent tried in skywing, but the reason I don't enable it was because in normal archwing missions it feels kind of terrible compared to the default controls in those missions, although if experimental archwing was the same in skywing as it was in archwing I could see it working as you described about the reticle.

Rn my preferred controls based on doing what I want them to do when I hit the controls is from left to right:

Default archwing>experimental archwing>skywing

Experimental archwing has controls that feel too heavy for the nimble archwings, meaning that the momentum feels too heavy for the max speed it can get too, including pitching (which I think is x and c by default, I switched my controls when I experimented with it). on the contrary skywing is too light for the archwings but also wayyy too rigid, the momentum is still too high here and doesn't follow physics at all and also doesn't like following directional controls or ADSing. 

On one hand you have a control system that's too physics realistic making it hard to control, and on the other you have a control system that defies physics completely and therefore makes no sense to control as a human being that is used to things following the rules of physics. Default space archwing controls are a good medium between them because inertia and directional momentum make sense in this mode, but they also defy physics enough to follow the handling and control of the player (such as making quick complete stops easy without having to do rocket science, or crashing into a wall)

[Corvid]

43 minutes ago, birdobash said:

-snip-

Huh. How odd. I have Experimental Flight disabled as well.

Yeah, the momentum really needs to be toned down, especially given how looking around while aiming causes it to redirect to wherever you look at (So I can't boost in a direction, then shoot at something to the side while coasting along, instead I'll start flying toward it). Either fix it so I can do sick drift-sniping, or remove it.

That said, something I'd like to see implemented would be conservation of momentum when equipping Skywing. The little halt while it spawns in is a tad annoying, especially when momentum is conserved when exiting the mode.

[SenorClipClop]

Two things Warframe can learn from Anthem:

1. You can make a prettier game off the hop if you use graphics and code from the current generation of technology instead of updating from 6-year-old stuff. Not sure they'd want to render our game-time redundant to make a Warframe 2 with updated specs, but at least they know now, eh?
2. Changing out most of your creative staff mid-development after the majority of the original team leaves  is going to create a lot of controversy and make the community lose a lot of faith in your project. Good thing DE has kept a creative vision for 10+ years, striving to make Warframe even after they made DarkSector and finally self-publishing when nobody would back their dream of a sci-fi game.

Seriously though, Tenno, all of the suggestions you've made are things that could be minor additions or updates to the game, all of which have been suggested by the community since before Anthem was even an idea. Don't cast Anthem as any kind thing for Warframe to look up to. Sure, it has some things that Warframe could meet, but Warframe stands high above the current iteration of what Anthem is currently for a much lower pricetag, even if you spend some money on Warframe.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

18 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

before Anthem was even an idea.

I agree with most of what u said except for this. Just so you are aware, Bioware has been working on Anthem for the last 5 almost 6 years. 

[Corvid]

2 hours ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

I agree with most of what u said except for this. Just so you are aware, Bioware has been working on Anthem for the last 5 almost 6 years. 

 

Look familiar? This was first shown in 2004.

Edit: Interesting how the misconception gets an upvote before the correction.

2 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

 

1. You can make a prettier game off the hop if you use graphics and code from the current generation of technology instead of updating from 6-year-old stuff. Not sure they'd want to render our game-time redundant to make a Warframe 2 with updated specs, but at least they know now, eh?

Eh, I'd say the advantages of updating their own engine outweigh the benefits of a prettier game. It must be remembered that this game is designed to run on toasters.

Not everything has to look cutting-edge, and I was always under the impression that graphics were a secondary concern anyway. An interesting art style will always trump high-fidelity genericness (the only thing that stands out to me with Anthem's art style is the reverse-canting on the legs.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Corvid

[rune_me]

30 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Not everything has to look cutting-edge, and I was always under the impression that graphics were a secondary concern anyway. An interesting art style will always trump high-fidelity genericness (the only thing that stands out to me with Anthem's art style is the reverse-canting on the legs.

Warframe hardly has an interesting artstyle, though. It's just generic sci-fi. 

While I like the designs of Warframes better than the design of Javelins, everything else in Warframe is dull and uninspired. The level design, the enemy design, the open environments especially, I much prefer Anthem's art direction. This is of course very much a matter of personal preference.

[Corvid]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

Warframe hardly has an interesting artstyle, though. It's just generic sci-fi. 

I can't think of many other settings that use this techno-organic aesthetic.

[rune_me]

5 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I can't think of many other settings that use this techno-organic aesthetic.

More like the designs. Grineers are just a poor mans space marines. Corpus are just generic mechs. The infested are aliens. We've seen it all before. The same can be said for Anthem, but it at least looks better even if both lacks any kind of originality in their art design.

[Corvid]

Just now, rune_me said:

More like the designs. Grineers are just a poor mans space marines. Corpus are just generic mechs. The infested are aliens.

Pretty much everything can be described as "generic" if you boil them down to 5-word descriptions. A lot of art design comes from nuance.

[rune_me]

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

Pretty much everything can be described as "generic" if you boil them down to 5-word descriptions. A lot of art design comes from nuance.

Well I don't really consider Warframe's designs to have any nuance, is what I'm saying. I consider the gameplay to have plenty of originality, especially in the parkour department, in the speed of it and in the shooting. But it's world building, art-style and lore I have always considered dumb and bland and entirely uninteresting.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

all of which have been suggested by the community

 

55 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Look familiar? This was first shown in 2004.

Yeah looks vary similar to Bioware MDK 2 in the year 2000. And it wasn't called WF back then it was called dark sector. Warframe wasn't even an idea in 2004. 

 

18 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I can't think of many other settings that use this techno-organic aesthetic.

Come on man. Warframe came out in what 2013. Anthem has been in development since 2013. I love both games. Was just pointing out Anthem as an idea is just as old as when Warframe was first introduced. 

Edited February 9, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[SneakyErvin]

12 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I can't think of many other settings that use this techno-organic aesthetic.

40k, Starcraft, Warzone/Mutant Chronicles, the Alien universe, Terminator, Star Trek and Cyberpunk are just a few.

[Kyneidos]

26 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Warframe hardly has an interesting artstyle, though. It's just generic sci-fi. 

While I like the designs of Warframes better than the design of Javelins, everything else in Warframe is dull and uninspired. The level design, the enemy design, the open environments especially,

Mass Effect is generic sci-fi. Warframe is one of the more visually-unique universes in current circulation.

[Corvid]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Yeah looks vary similar to Bioware MDK 2 in the year 2000. And it wasn't called WF back then it was called dark sector. Warframe wasn't even an idea in 2004. 

...

Warframe is what that original Dark Sector concept was going to be. The idea for Warframe can be traced back as far as 2004, unlike Anthem. Hell, if you consider that it started out as a sequel/successor to Unreal, it could be traced back even further.

10 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

40k, Starcraft, Warzone/Mutant Chronicles, the Alien universe, Terminator, Star Trek and Cyberpunk are just a few.

Most of those either 1: are aesthetically biotech rather than techno-organic, or 2: don't use it as the main art style for the poster faction. Several of them also aren't as mainstream as Warframe is.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

24 minutes ago, Kyneidos said:

Mass Effect is generic sci-fi

So is Metal Gear and the Resident Evils are a big one. 

Edited February 9, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[rune_me]

23 minutes ago, Kyneidos said:

Mass Effect is generic sci-fi. Warframe is one of the more visually-unique universes in current circulation.

Nah, it's every bit as bland and generic as Mass Effect. Except for the Warframes themselves (which I already stated I like) there's really nothing at all that stands out in the visual department.

[Corvid]

5 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Nah, it's every bit as bland and generic as Mass Effect. Except for the Warframes themselves (which I already stated I like) there's really nothing at all that stands out in the visual department.

Y'know, it would probably help if you'd qualify these statements with examples of things that aren't generic in your eyes.

[rune_me]

Just now, Corvid said:

Y'know, it would probably help if you'd qualify these statements with examples of things that aren't generic in your eyes.

Not much in the world of sci-fi that aren't generic these days. Sadly sci-fi like fantasy has grown stale and you have to look very hard to find something that feels original or inspired.

Original concepts would include Blade Runner, Alien, Dune, Star Wars, Mad Max, Neuromancer. While these might not seem original today, they were when they were released and they are more or less the templates that all sci-fi since has imitated. Including Warframe. 

Original art design is tougher. I'd say a game like Horizon Zero Dawn is a good example of that. The setting is certainly not original, but the design stands out. The world is gorgeous and a lot of planning has clearly gone into color palettes and design. The enemies look interesting, are unique and memorable, and from a gameplay perspective very well designed.

[Famecans]

main positive points of the warframe seen by me

the warframe design is better than anthem with its armors always in the same technological style "corpus

warfram involves technology, nature and supernatural forces in a single title and athem contains only technology (corpus)

very large historical progression in a ramification of characters, races, places ... we simply play and we do not know if we are villains or heroes of God

main critical points in the warframe seen by me

the production team does not seem consistent to me, every frame, weapon, texture, or object seems to blend with other races' styles, perhaps the current creator of the new concept "corpus" is someone else today new concept "corpus (colored weapons and cabinets adorned with cool stickers)

the fidelity of materials of the graphic engine does not seem fair and the quality of textures is very variant, shaders, lights, lighting, color, has no material pattern for basic materials, wood, steel and stone, we always have variations when applying simple colors

the animation in warframe is very lively in the metal slugh style cartoon objects objects restless and anxious characters in moments that should be quiet

I have a multitude of details but these are the most remarkable ones for me :U

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, Corvid said:

Edit: Interesting how the misconception gets an upvote before the correction.

"have been suggested by the community since before Anthem was even an idea."

My point was Warframe and the community for Warframe was a thing at about the same time Anthem was being developed. 

What you do with that information. I leave to you. 

Edited February 9, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82