Darian_Fox Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 The scenario is very simple. I go into a survival mission, and just sit in a corner killing mobs. The counter is going down and I'm not able to sustain the life support counter very well by just killing mobs. I get distracted by something, and next thing I know I'm at 10% life support. I scramble to the nearest capsule, not too concerned cause I know my warframe can handle 0 oxygen for at least a few minutes, or at least... he should be able to... (From a story point why does a warframe require oxygen? He don't seem to care when he's in water or space. >.>) I am 10 meters away from 1 of 5 life capsules... the life support runs out, AND THEY ALL DISAPPEAR!!! And then the mission gives me the game over sign. Seriously... What!? Life support capsules magically disappear when life support hits 0? Really!? Secondly, game over?! Common DE... that's no way to handle that situation. Now I get that there are warframes that can handle no oxygen indefinitely. Limbo, etc, etc, the list goes on, there's also strategies for no oxygen. However here are the changes I propose that should counter these strategies nicely, while at least keeping it slightly more friendly to players in general. A: Pause the timer so that no more rewards can be achieved until life support is obtained. B: DO NOT delete life capsules instantly on 0 oxygen... like seriously... what was that? Anyways, thoughts from the community on this. Have a great day! P.S. I do have another account that's much older, but this one is the one I'm playing on atm. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 the Lore behind different situations will make sense, once you see later in the story. note that when Underwater or in Space, your Archwing is providing Life Support. if all that happens in Survival is the timer gets paused when you run out of Life Support, you are suggesting that Survival not have a Fail State. i think.... we have too many Gamemodes/Missions that don't have a Fail State as it is. not too few. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darian_Fox Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 A: Lore? I have done the entire story and other than Nidus and Excalibur Umbra, there's no reason whatsoever as to why warframes should need oxygen. Maybe you should enlighten me as to what particular part of lore you're talking about? And please tell me that you're not referring to the operator inside the suit. B: Even if that was the case... just go into most corpus missions, blow out a window, and see how long you survive. Or even infested missions where you literally spawn in a vacuum. Loss of oxygen does not equal death... not even close. All I'm asking for here is a bit of consistency in the game, something we should all enjoy to enhance immersion. C : I'm trying really hard to think of a single game mode that doesn't have a fail state... I mean to my knowledge you can die, or fail in all of them. Besides, pausing the timer at 7 minutes etc when you're already struggling to kill mobs and you keep dying doesn't necessarily promise that you're going to make it to extraction. Especially under the influence of no oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, Darian_Fox said: just go into most corpus missions, blow out a window, and see how long you survive. Or even infested missions where you literally spawn in a vacuum. In both of those scenerios your Warframe does indeed take damage. 14 minutes ago, Darian_Fox said: A: Lore? I have done the entire story and other than Nidus and Excalibur Umbra, there's no reason whatsoever as to why warframes should need oxygen. Maybe you should enlighten me as to what particular part of lore you're talking about? And please tell me that you're not referring to the operator inside the suit. It's because the frames themselves are still made of "Living" organic flesh. This was actually explained in both the lore and the story quests. This is why the in-game mechanic for any missions requiring an extended time without oxygen usually require you to have an AW. As that AW is supplying your life support. They are not just suits that are worn because it's not empty. The Operator isn't wearing the frame, but actually combining with the frame. 😄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darian_Fox Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 Okay DatDarkOne, I obviously missed in one of the quests where it states that the warframes are made out of flesh. These facts however don't change the original request or suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 You must have blazed through the Umbra Excal quest as that was the main theme of that quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyschoGrizzlyBear Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I don't think Lifesupport refers to only oxygen, you could think of it as "Special gas" to keep your infested biomass of a cyborg obedient and strong. If you look at the Lifesupport capsule, you siphon green stuff out of it to keep yourself alive(It's probably for visual purposes, but whatever). As for consistency, I think it's more of a "challenge" to test your capability. Why do they distribute life capsule around the map, instead of directly to where the player is located? The developers don't want your stinky infested biomess hoarding a room, where's the fun and challenge in that? The game does have a failsafe: at 20% the Lotus will warn you to get your butt to extraction or get some lifesupport. What do you do? Should you continue sitting in the corner until your Lifesupport run out and cry bloodymurder? The fact that you're dying and having trouble killing enemies is suggesting to me, that you should do public, or review what loadout you brought to that mission. If you don't mind me asking, what loadout do you bring to this mission? What mission node did you have trouble in? If you're having trouble to stay alive and kill enemies 7 minutes in, there may be more learning for you to do rather than suggesting changes to the core gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darian_Fox Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 In response to DatDarkOne, if you had bothered reading any of my previous posts, you would have seen that I made very clear distinctions about both Umbra and Nidus. Also Umbra is a special sentient warframe, hence why he actually walks around when you're in your operator mode. In response to PyschoGrizzlyBear, your first paragraph actually does make sense. However... why in that case do we not need capsules on any other mission? I highly doubt the corpus, or grineer, or especially infested missions and what not all are flowing with this gas just to keep your warframe, which by your own words is just a mass of infestation, alive. It makes no sense if that is truly what you're saying it is. Also life support capsules drop from enemies, are we to assume that they keep this "special gas" on them just to give to a random warframe who requires it? Logic fail much? In response to your other 3 paragraphs where you basically call me a terrible player. I will have you know that I have played this game from start to finish on another account. I decided to restart the game cause I got bored with having everything I wanted. This new character is mastery rank 3, and it is obviously true that it has difficulty with content. None of that however has anything to do with my original post where I simply suggested that the game handles survival missions differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Darian_Fox said: In response to DatDarkOne, if you had bothered reading any of my previous posts, you would have seen that I made very clear distinctions about both Umbra and Nidus. Also Umbra is a special sentient warframe, hence why he actually walks around when you're in your operator mode. And that doesn't explain how you missed all the details of how frames are made in that umbra quest as it was a main part of the whole quest. Ballas even voiced the text for you. 4 minutes ago, Darian_Fox said: I will have you know that I have played this game from start to finish on another account. I decided to restart the game cause I got bored with having everything I wanted. Which makes this topic even more sad than I originally thought. I myself have restarted the game on an alt account, and I still can't see why you would be having the trouble you're having with Survival missions with your prior experience even at mr3. He wasn't calling you a terrible player (although your recent comments have brought that to mind) but really curious as to why you were/are having trouble and offering ways to help you. I on the other hand saw the "unlocked umbra excal" part and was wondering to myself how in the hell could you get as far as unlocking Umbra Excal without knowing how survival missions work. This was a conundrum that was really bugging me. I was originally trying to be nice and help you understand in case you didn't know. Now I just don't care anymore. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Yeah, no, you missed a few points by zipping through the story quests. If your suggestion hinges on the belief that Warframes don't need oxygen, then it won't work because the lore has established the Warframes to be biological in origin, with a biological virus that mutates and changes the host. As to why you failed the mission, you opt'd for a camping strategy and it failed due to your inattention. :shrug: don't wait so long to head for life support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darian_Fox Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) *facepalm* You all are completely missing the entire point of the whole thread... Have a good day, I give up trying to talk sense to you all. Mod, please close this thread, I'm sorry that I assumed this community would be better. Edited January 30, 2019 by Darian_Fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 When all else fails, it's everyone else's fault, hey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma745 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Darian_Fox said: *facepalm* You all are completely missing the entire point of the whole thread... Have a good day, I give up trying to talk sense to you all. That's because, honestly, your idea would make it practically impossible to fail a Survival mission, especially if you use a frame that can avoid damage altogether such as Limbo, Zephyr, Ivara. Run out of Life support? Just pop one and then continue on your way. No Life support available? Just wait for one to come and pop that. You might not even need to kill anyone. Also, that slight bit about cannot use any more life support is at least slightly "explained" in Infested Survival. Maybe. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warframe/images/4/4b/SurvivalMissionInfestExtractUrgent2.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20180724163402 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterc3 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 This is quite simple. Life Support not hitting 0 is the objective of Survival. If it hits 0 you have failed. If you prefer, you can just straight up fail the mission when it hits 0 and not be given the chance to get to extract with everything you've gotten during the mission, but it seems like a great thing that there's a grace period. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darian_Fox Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 14 hours ago, peterc3 said: This is quite simple. Life Support not hitting 0 is the objective of Survival. If it hits 0 you have failed. If you prefer, you can just straight up fail the mission when it hits 0 and not be given the chance to get to extract with everything you've gotten during the mission, but it seems like a great thing that there's a grace period. There was no grace period. I did just straight up fail the mission when it hit 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterc3 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Darian_Fox said: There was no grace period. I did just straight up fail the mission when it hit 0. Was it an Alert or other mission where there is a specific amount of time you must maintain life support? Otherwise, you will have your life dropped to 5 HP over time and need to get to extraction. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam686 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 The title of this topic, "Survival Missions should NOT end on 0 Life support". As long as extraction was available before, losing life support does not instantly fail the mission. But, I guess the possible problem with zero life support, there are no way to get any life support from anything. No enemies from life support. No life support from loot containers. No life support while underwater Archwing in Uranus Survival mission. No refilling or hooking up life support pipe from a ship located at extraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrl Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) On 2019-01-30 at 12:31 AM, Darian_Fox said: I get distracted by something, and next thing I know I'm at 10% life support. I scramble to the nearest capsule, not too concerned Have you tried not being distracted on multiple levels (not paying attention to life support levels, not paying attention to capsule locations, not paying attention to how the mechanics of the mission type really work)? If you could salvage a survival mission after hitting 0%, then why not do away with the life support mechanic at all and just make it an endless rush of enemies with no additional conditions? Oh, maybe because that would mean being able to camp a nice little corner even more than you already can, which seems to be what you want. The life support mechanic exists to force you to move. If anything it should force players to move MORE. Edited February 3, 2019 by ebrl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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