Stalker mode ideas

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I think this mode is going to have some issues with players just pulling the plug when the lights flicker...They didn't like the Maniac back before it was nerfed and they just quit out and they won't like being killed by other players...PVE players are competitive in differing ways and having the power fantasy threatened will not bode well for this mode...

As for a Ai being adaptive...Alien Isolation is a PVE experience with a AI that chased you around..but it just killed you..not tea-bagged you..searched your name and sent you a message to further rub it in...That kind toxicity is rampant and will be on full display for the community if this is forced on PVE players without their consent...We've all seen region chat and we all know how this will fair...

[----Legacy----]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

I can.

 

I baked three pies, remember?

Still you can't have all three of them and eat them too. Eating one will make you keep the other two, and then just one, and finally you'll stop having all of them unless you keep baking more pies. 

Unrelated note:

That part of the pie analogy makes me feel as if DE was the bakery, pies are the content and players are constantly eating the pie in 2 minutes after being served and then go back to demand more pie, which usually takes about an hour to be baked so they start claiming that the bakery will die and a lot of other stuff. I guess that's an entirely different topic but you know what i'm talking about.

[----Legacy----]

4 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

You can have badges/Sekhara or Syandana all you want. I just don't want any mod/BP to be exclusive for PvP content.

The problem with this, is that players then say that "there is no reason to play the mode because it doesn't offer anything worth it" as many players already do with conclave since it lacks actual rewards and most of them are simply get and forget stuff.

[NocheLuz]

9 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

The problem with this, is that players then say that "there is no reason to play the mode because it doesn't offer anything worth it" as many players already do with conclave since it lacks actual rewards and most of them are simply get and forget stuff.

It's just mean it's not fun. If it's fun even if it's not reward a unique rewards it would still have a people playing it. Also, Mod/BP is one of the things that you get and forget... it's not that difference if you want to use that argument. If there are Mod/BP it unique to this mode. It's just mean many people play because they 'NEED' to play to get those rewards instead of playing because it's fun.

[----Legacy----]

3 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

It's just mean it's not fun. If it's fun even if it's not reward a unique rewards it would still have a people playing it. Also, Mod/BP is one of the things that you get and forget... it's not that difference if you want to use that argument. If there are Mod/BP it unique to this mode. It's just mean many people play because they 'NEED' to play to get those rewards instead of playing because it's fun.

The thing is, we aren't talking about a community that will go out of their way to play nearly anything in warframe just because fun is the reward, but about players who simply will never give a try to content if it doesn't have appealing rewards. You can see, for example, how sorties popularity comes mainly from them being the only source of rivens (along some specific alerts) and legendary cores; how the only reason to play arbitrations is to get its rng rewards and vitus essence which, afaik,currently has no use other than buying rewards from the hexis dude; how ESO/SO simply get forgotten after getting all of their rewards (which include focus).

Sure, weapons, mods and bps are a one time reward, however, they could always make the mode drop resources (endo and credits included) and perhaps even have downed tenno drop a unique resource (like, idk... Oro) which can be used to either craft and research unique stuff or simply as a substitute for crafting resources of certain BPs.

[NocheLuz]

3 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

You can see, for example, how sorties popularity comes mainly from them being the only source of rivens (along some specific alerts) and legendary cores; how the only reason to play arbitrations is to get its rng rewards and vitus essence which, afaik,currently has no use other than buying rewards from the hexis dude; how ESO/SO simply get forgotten after getting all of their rewards (which include focus).

Sure, weapons, mods and bps are a one time reward, however, they could always make the mode drop resources (endo and credits included) and perhaps even have downed tenno drop a unique resource (like, idk... Oro) which can be used to either craft and research unique stuff or simply as a substitute for crafting resources of certain BPs.

First, those aren't PvP content. Second, I'm not playing Arbitrations because of how they want player to failed mission more. Also, ESO/SO still have player playing it. I'm also playing sorties because it's fun. I'm not playing everyday especially the day where radiation hazard are on. I'm not care about Riven mod too. Some people may care but I don't.

I still stand on no unique rewards on Stalker (player). If they drop on Stalker (AI) too then sure. But to lock something behind PVP content is no go.

[BornWithTeeth]

4 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

First, those aren't PvP content. Second, I'm not playing Arbitrations because of how they want player to failed mission more. Also, ESO/SO still have player playing it. I'm also playing sorties because it's fun. I'm not playing everyday especially the day where radiation hazard are on. I'm not care about Riven mod too. Some people may care but I don't.

I still stand on no unique rewards on Stalker (player). If they drop on Stalker (AI) too then sure. But to lock something behind PVP content is no go.

Even cosmetics?

[NocheLuz]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Even cosmetics?

Hey!! Take your Pie back!! lol...

I think I have said enough of what I really mean... but cosmetics (like Stalker helmet) is one of the things that I think most player wanted. So, it's kinda gray area in those cosmetics. For me, I don't really care. For other people they might really try hard to get one. It's kinda fall into play because of rewards not because it's fun things.

[----Legacy----]

1 minute ago, NocheLuz said:

First, those aren't PvP content.

I know, just used them as examples of how reward driven are most of the warframe players.

2 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Second, I'm not playing Arbitrations because of how they want player to failed mission more.

I don't see how failing a mission could be something awful enough to completely avoid a gamemode, but if that's your only reason to avoid them, that's on your own.

3 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Also, ESO/SO still have player playing it

Yeah, mostly players who haven't gotten all of their rewards, are farming focus, or go there to level up gear. ESO/SO is still an affinity lootcave, so thanks for proving my point.

4 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

I'm also playing sorties because it's fun. I'm not playing everyday especially the day where radiation hazard are on. I'm not care about Riven mod too. Some people may care but I don't.

Congrats! But as you pointed, you're a particular case, it doesn't remove the players who want more than 90 slots nor the ones complaining because riven mods aren't as common as listed in the drop tables. 

6 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

I still stand on no unique rewards on Stalker (player). If they drop on Stalker (AI) too then sure. But to lock something behind PVP content is no go.

There is nothing wrong with locking rewards behind PvP to encourage people to play it, however, i think the biggest issue here are self-entitled players who want access to absolutely everything in the game without ever playing certain parts of it.

The premise is quite simple:

-Want the rewards? Then opt in and get them.

-Don't want the rewards? Then their existance isn't an issue and you can stay opted out for as long as you want.

[NocheLuz]

3 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

IThe premise is quite simple:

-Want the rewards? Then opt in and get them.

-Don't want the rewards? Then their existance isn't an issue and you can stay opted out for as long as you want.

Yeah, as long as those rewards are not exclusive to PvP content. Sure.

[Remy_Lacroix]

Imagine if the stalker syndicate was composed of 5 ranks, where the rewards are locked behind the highest one but the opt-out is removed after reaching rank 3.

Also, if toxicity is the real reason why many players don't want it, De could simply disable both, written and voice chats and there's one thing less to worry about 

[----Legacy----]

4 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Yeah, as long as those rewards are not exclusive to PvP content. Sure.

Not sure if you aren't following the context or haven't noticed the contradicition you have just made.

If those rewards aren't exclusive, then there's no much reason to opt in even if you want them, so it's basically the same as if those rewards weren't offered for facing a player stalker in the first place since you could still opt-out and get them, so you are actually against a premise as simple as "opt-in if you want rewards, or stay opted-out if you don't care about them". 

[NocheLuz]

1 minute ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Not sure if you aren't following the context or haven't noticed the contradicition you have just made.

If those rewards aren't exclusive, then there's no much reason to opt in even if you want them, so it's basically the same as if those rewards weren't offered for facing a player stalker in the first place since you could still opt-out and get them, so you are actually against a premise as simple as "opt-in if you want rewards, or stay opted-out if you don't care about them". 

I'm not making contradiction. I just said don't have exclusive rewards to PvP content. "opt-in if you want rewards, or stay opted-out if you don't care about them". Is that hard to not making exclusive rewards? Warframe is PvE base game, suddenly introduce PvP only content would mean if you 'Want' reward but 'Do not want to play PvP content' You'll have to do 3 things. 1. Just gave up the rewards 2. Try to play PvP even if you don't want to. 3. Buy from another player (if it's an option). If you looking for 3 it would mean another items to trade. I don't really care about this if all exclusive reward can be trade. That would make people want to play more and people who don't want to play still get what they want.

Still, I just want to make a point that 'Is it that hard to make fun PvP content without baiting people to play then with exclusive rewards? Your answer is no, they need baiting rewards to make people play them. Still, if all the baiting are gone people would forgot them anyways. They play them because rewards not because it's fun.

[----Legacy----]

7 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Still, I just want to make a point that 'Is it that hard to make fun PvP content without baiting people to play then with exclusive rewards?

When you have people using

7 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Warframe is PvE base game

Against anything PvP related, you can be sure it is hard to create pvp content without baiting players to at least give it a try.

[NocheLuz]

12 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Against anything PvP related, you can be sure it is hard to create pvp content without baiting players to at least give it a try.

Well, the bait can be things like 'Spring-Loaded Broadhead' mod that Extremely Hard to get one outside of Conclave. As I said, not PvP exclusive but a lot easier to get by playing PvP. It's already a nice bait.

PS. I do manage to get one though... Because I really hate PvP (lol)

Edited January 30, 2019 by NocheLuz
some typo...

[----Legacy----]

3 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Well, the bait can be things like 'Spring-Loaded Broadhead' mod that Extremely Hard to get one outside of Conclave. As I said, not PvP exclusive but a lot easier to get by playing PvP. It's already a nice bait.

Ehhh, i think it's an awful bait since most of the conclave mods can be obtained from either conculysts or battalysts.

3 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

I really hate PvP (lol)

And thats exactly why you refuse to let PvP have exclusive rewards. As much as i understand the need to avoid something you hate (no matter the reason) i think that most of the comments asking for PvP having no exclusive rewards show how immature can the warframe community get to be and how spoiled has it been by DE since they bend to these arguments anyways.

[NocheLuz]

1 minute ago, ----Legacy---- said:

And thats exactly why you refuse to let PvP have exclusive rewards. As much as i understand the need to avoid something you hate (no matter the reason) i think that most of the comments asking for PvP having no exclusive rewards show how immature can the warframe community get to be and how spoiled has it been by DE since they bend to these arguments anyways.

Like any other have said. If I need PvP I would play other games. If I play... let's say some Battle Royal game and suddenly I said I need PvE content and some rewards that go for it but with Battle Royal theme. That would be extremely boring and some PvP players would just said why don't play PvE game. That is facts not because they immature. Is it bad that PvE game have PvP? no. Is it bad that PvE games needed you to play PvP content to get all rewards? yes. It's depend on rewards but mostly DE would be selective on what rewards is safe to be put locked in PvP content.

I think you have a good idea that I don't care if they want to put PvP content into the game. As long as it's not require me to play it to get rewards exclusive to the mode. It's also like I said in the previous reply, you can make those reward all tradable and I don't have any argument. Because you still can get it by not playing PvP content from people who love to play it.

[BornWithTeeth]

12 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Like any other have said. If I need PvP I would play other games. If I play... let's say some Battle Royal game and suddenly I said I need PvE content and some rewards that go for it but with Battle Royal theme. That would be extremely boring and some PvP players would just said why don't play PvE game. That is facts not because they immature. Is it bad that PvE game have PvP? no. Is it bad that PvE games needed you to play PvP content to get all rewards? yes. It's depend on rewards but mostly DE would be selective on what rewards is safe to be put locked in PvP content.

I think you have a good idea that I don't care if they want to put PvP content into the game. As long as it's not require me to play it to get rewards exclusive to the mode. It's also like I said in the previous reply, you can make those reward all tradable and I don't have any argument. Because you still can get it by not playing PvP content from people who love to play it.

Conclave skins and sigils, to the best of my knowledge, are not tradable and can only be acquired through PvP.

 

And...that’s fine. You don’t need them for the rest of the game.

[----Legacy----]

7 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Like any other have said. If I need PvP I would play other games.

Didn't you just say:

24 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

I really hate PvP (lol)

It would be nice to have some consistency on your arguments.

---------

9 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

If I play... let's say some Battle Royal game and suddenly I said I need PvE content and some rewards that go for it but with Battle Royal theme. That would be extremely boring and some PvP players would just said why don't play PvE game. That is facts not because they immature.

If the game has both, a PvE and PvP aspect, asking players to play something else when they enjoy something that already exists is equally immature, no matter if it's said by PvP to PvE players or vice versa. 

Your comparison could apply perfectly for someone going to a PvP game like Toxikk demanding PvE content even tough it doesn't exist and devs have shown no interest on developing it.

22 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Is it bad that PvE game have PvP? no.

Agreed.

23 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Is it bad that PvE games needed you to play PvP content to get all rewards? yes. It's depend on rewards but mostly DE would be selective on what rewards is safe to be put locked in PvP content.

Disagreed. It is not a bad thing since it encourages players to try different things in the same game, which can give players a reason to stay with the game despite having beaten all of the pve content available.

Also, the whole "DE would be selective on what rewards are safe to lock in pvp content" is further proof of how immature and spoiled are the members of this community. They should be able to lock whatever they want behind whatever wall they want, no matter if it's the most powerful weapon in the whole game or some useless badges and skins. They can always shrug off the cries like they have done with Hema research requirements for slightly over 2 years now despite recognizing that they went over the top with it.

35 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

I think you have a good idea that I don't care if they want to put PvP content into the game. 

Indeed, and that's appreciated.

35 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

As long as it's not require me to play it to get rewards exclusive to the mode.

But then there is no point of adding such rewards as some kind of bait in the first place.

 

36 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

It's also like I said in the previous reply, you can make those reward all tradable and I don't have any argument. Because you still can get it by not playing PvP content from people who love to play it.

I wouldn't mind if that was the case for rewards that affect progression such as a weapon, kitgun/zaw parts, powerful PvE mods, or even a warframe unlockable only through through pvp (or trading). However, if it's just cosmetic stuff that doesn't affect gameplay nor progression in any way there is no actual reason to not make it exclusive other than people wanting to bypass the mode.

[NocheLuz]

2 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Didn't you just say:

It would be nice to have some consistency on your arguments.

You need to read more carefully before making an argument (lol)... I said...

44 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

If I need PvP I would play other games.

IF... I think you know what it's mean right? IF!!

5 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Disagreed. It is not a bad thing since it encourages players to try different things in the same game, which can give players a reason to stay with the game despite having beaten all of the pve content available. 

I like how you really want to make everyone disagree seem bad. I said it's bad to lock something behind PvP and I'm not disagree to have the PvP things as long as it's not mendatory.

9 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

They should be able to lock whatever they want behind whatever wall they want, no matter if it's the most powerful weapon in the whole game or some useless badges and skins.

I agreed, as long as it's fun to play. Not just make us play because we needed to play them. Someone (like me) who hate PvP would also get some benefit in those Stalker mode even if I don't play it. Like trading exclusive weapon or mod from people who play it.

11 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

However, if it's just cosmetic stuff that doesn't affect gameplay nor progression in any way there is no actual reason to not make it exclusive other than people wanting to bypass the mode.

TBH, the people I know like cosmetic stuff more than some Rank fodder...

[----Legacy----]

31 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

I like how you really want to make everyone disagree seem bad. I said it's bad to lock something behind PvP and I'm not disagree to have the PvP things as long as it's not mendatory.

Not trying to make anyone look bad, just pointing why i think it's good to have pvp exclusive things

Also, cosmetic rewards aren't mandatory since these won't affect your gameplay and won't hold your progression back in any way.

34 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

I agreed, as long as it's fun to play. Not just make us play because we needed to play them.

Fun is subjective, if you aren't having fun but still want to force yourself through an experience you dislike or straight up hate in order to get something in a game, then i guess you should take a look at your priorities.

34 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Someone (like me) who hate PvP would also get some benefit in those Stalker mode even if I don't play it. Like trading exclusive weapon or mod from people who play it.

And that would be a good thing, i even pointed that i would see no harm on making rewards that affect gameplay or progression tradeable to avoid locking players who hate pvp away from these rewards. 

38 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

TBH, the people I know like cosmetic stuff more than some Rank fodder...

So? Players who care more about "fashionframe" than actual playable content, they are on their own since, as pointed many times above, cosmetic rewards don't affect gameplay nor progression in any way, so it makes sense to keep them exclusive.

[BornWithTeeth]

One thing that does crop up is the following: people complaining about how Operators are too good vs the Stalker. Not gonna lie chaps, I like my Operator, I put some real effort into earning Focus, building and stacking Operator Arcanes, building and gilding Amps, so, if PvP mode whining results in my carefully built Operator being nerfed, I will be righteously pissed.

[NocheLuz]

8 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Fun is subjective, if you aren't having fun but still want to force yourself through an experience you dislike or straight up hate in order to get something in a game, then i guess you should take a look at your priorities.

That is why locking something behind content that some players don't like are bad move. It's like even if you don't like it, they still force you to do it (to get what you want or to power up your arsenal). That is why I do compromise with having ability to trade whatever exclusive to those PvP content.

[----Legacy----]

Just now, NocheLuz said:

That is why locking something behind content that some players don't like are bad move. It's like even if you don't like it, they still force you to do it (to get what you want or to power up your arsenal). That is why I do compromise with having ability to trade whatever exclusive to those PvP content.

But the thing is, you are not forced to get everything in the game, so you aren't forced to play the mode you dislike. Also, your last comment makes it look as if you are purposefully dismissing the difference between cosmetic rewards (that don't affect gameplay in any way, so their exclusivity is harmless) and progression rewards (which acrually affect gameplay and may even provide progression, be it through mastery or power, so it would be nice to make them tradeable).

[NocheLuz]

5 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

But the thing is, you are not forced to get everything in the game, so you aren't forced to play the mode you dislike. Also, your last comment makes it look as if you are purposefully dismissing the difference between cosmetic rewards (that don't affect gameplay in any way, so their exclusivity is harmless) and progression rewards (which acrually affect gameplay and may even provide progression, be it through mastery or power, so it would be nice to make them tradeable).

I didn't dissmissing it. I do see you want me to make a comment on it. But I don't see anything wrong with your comment. If you read my previous reply carefully you'll know that I don't care about cosmetic that much (I even said some cosmetic are in gray area where someone might want it even it they hate to play PvP). So, IDK if you want me to make 'What' comment on it.

Back on the topic. You aren't force to play the mode you don't like. But to get the rewards you want in that mode, you'll have to play it right? What make it difference from forcing to play it? The only thing you can do is to not play it and gave up on the rewards. If you can trade those exclusive rewards it would be great. Also, I do like how @BornWithTeeth try to tell me that when I type Exclusive rewards he would ask me 'Is that included cosmetics?' everytime lol... And to answer that... No, I only mean Mod/BP/Weapons.