Stalker mode ideas

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

I'm gonna think "What is it with you people and bad analogies?" 🤨

Did I miss the memo? Is it bad analogy week or something? If so, you should probably go and call the sushi restaurant guy (or whatever that was), as well.

 

If you want to call me out on something specific I've written, then do so in a straight-forward way, alright? Otherwise I'm just going to respond with one-liners or dissecting posts by pointing out logical fallacies, and that's hardly a productive nor enjoyable pastime for anyone involved.

If you don’t wanna do analogies, that’s fine, but more straight talking tends to offend people.

 

If Person A says “Hey, wanna fight?!” and Person B says “Naw bro, I’m fine thanks, you should fight someone who wants to fight,” and Person A responds by getting angry and attacking Person B anyway, then Person A is a huge jerk, and I’m only using those words because the apt description would be filtered by the forum.

 

Someone who can only have their fun by actively ruining someone else’s fun is a person who needs to get kicked out of the  playground altogether.

[Kontrollo]

18 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Someone who can only have their fun by actively ruining someone else’s fun is a person who needs to get kicked out of the  playground altogether. 

At the risk of repeating myself, let me respond to this with some quotes. I'll put them in reverse order so it's almost like enjoying some time travel shenanigans, at least, and who doesn't love those, right?

 

On 2019-02-05 at 9:11 PM, Kontrollo said:

Yes I get it, some people will want to use it as an outlet to troll others, same as some do now with Limbo or Loki. And some others simply don't want to have an opponent. If it turns out that's all it's going to be (or a significant amount), see my opinion about restricting it entirely.

On 2019-02-05 at 6:36 PM, Kontrollo said:

3. However, there's a good point to be made for adding an opt-in/opt-out feature, so people can play what they want and aren't forced into anything.

On 2019-01-30 at 12:50 PM, Kontrollo said:

While I think it's premature to outright demand opt-in/opt-out before anyone has even had a chance to play it -- I've seen Prime Time and thought it was hilarious -- I'm all for keeping the friction to a minimum. So I'm not against a feature like that at all. I'll just take it how it arrives and form my opinion then.

 

P.S. You still responded with an analogy, so I guess this must be the week.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Kontrollo
wrong list number in quote

[BornWithTeeth]

Alright, one last time!

 

If there is a segment of the community whose desire for Stalker mode is rooted in their desire to have fun by actively ruining the fun of other players, then that segment of the community should not be the one catered to, considering that most everyone else playing the game can do so without sabotaging each other’s leisure time.

[Kontrollo]

4 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

If there is a segment of the community whose desire for Stalker mode is rooted in their desire to have fun by actively ruining the fun of other players, then that segment of the community should not be the one catered to, considering that most everyone else playing the game can do so without sabotaging each other’s leisure time.

If you really think I haven't made myself clear on this: I completely agree.

[BornWithTeeth]

16 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

If you really think I haven't made myself clear on this: I completely agree.

We must also find an accord on the topic of pie. 

 

Analogy week isn’t over, Kontrollo.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

We must also find an accord on the topic of pie. 

I vote for Pecan Pie!  Yep, I said it.  😁 

[Urlan]

3 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

We must also find an accord on the topic of pie.

Wildberry or a strawberry pie would be nice. Though perhaps having the ability to get the slice of pie you want instead of being forced to eat someone else's choice would be less disruptive to pie connoisseurs in general.

[Aramil999]

@DatDarkOne @Kontrollo @Urlan @BornWithTeeth 

Which of you play Rescue missions for fun? Or Defectin missions? 0 rewards just for fun? 

Sorry guys but 99% players in Warframe do certein missions to get rewards. Once they get all possible rewards they ignore said mode forever (unless Sortie forces that on you).

Invasion system is DIFFERENT than normal missions and THAT is why it feels fresh and cool. It needs someone to invade otherwise it is normal mission. You can't "finish" it and be done.

You can't just ignore real Stalker, Syndicate Death Squads, Gragsta 3, Zenuka. The same should apply to Stalker Player. 

Yes, I know some players are against it but hey, we are just some vocal MINORITIES and by no means your voice is holy word of Majority.

Besides most players DON'T KNOW what they even want. In popularity wins "Content" and then "Story".

[Kontrollo]

3 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

Sorry guys but 99% players in Warframe do certein missions to get rewards. Once they get all possible rewards they ignore said mode forever (unless Sortie forces that on you).

That's what I was saying, too, in my speculation on its implementation. See my numbered list, specifically 3 & 4 (point 3 already above):

On 2019-02-05 at 6:36 PM, Kontrollo said:

4. Having that, there's naturally also a need to offer some kind of rewards to participate in this game mode, because let's face it: most time in this game is spent working towards another push of that Skinner box lever (what Scott meant in his interview, just didn't say outright). And because even if you're someone who likes this interaction in principle, there's of course a point to be made to deactivate it to save a bit of time. Today's Stalker is a total pushover, real people probably aren't like that. 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

8 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

Besides most players DON'T KNOW what they even want. In popularity wins "Content" and then "Story".

Except in this case we do know what we want. Opt-out.

I've said this before, you're delusional holmes.

[DatDarkOne]

13 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

Which of you play Rescue missions for fun? Or Defectin missions? 0 rewards just for fun? 

I do pretty much for all missions minus defections.  If this game wasn't fun, I wouldn't play it period regardless of the rewards.  

13 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

You can't just ignore real Stalker, Syndicate Death Squads, Gragsta 3, Zenuka. The same should apply to Stalker Player. 

Actually, as an Ivara main I can completely ignore all of them in most locations/maps.  With Titania and Mag they are barely even an annoyance.  

13 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

Besides most players DON'T KNOW what they even want. In popularity wins "Content" and then "Story".

Almost every single player rpg-like game in existence this is possibly the reverse with a few exceptions.  Then there are some where they are in balance.  But in almost every case, the gameplay comes before all of that.  

edit: By the way, I know that I want an opt-out feature.  

Edited February 6, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[Aramil999]

If opt-out button would kill great mode that can be cure for everlasting "Content Drought" then do you really know what you want? I know that 99% people do not see futher into future than 1 day but please think about future possibilities and how that can be great addition to game ONLY if it is alive. 

Luckly DE Scott knows it and no DE dev will read all this hateful forum entries 😉 lucky me 😉

[BornWithTeeth]

15 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

@DatDarkOne @Kontrollo @Urlan @BornWithTeeth 

Which of you play Rescue missions for fun? Or Defectin missions? 0 rewards just for fun? 

Sorry guys but 99% players in Warframe do certein missions to get rewards. Once they get all possible rewards they ignore said mode forever (unless Sortie forces that on you).

Invasion system is DIFFERENT than normal missions and THAT is why it feels fresh and cool. It needs someone to invade otherwise it is normal mission. You can't "finish" it and be done.

You can't just ignore real Stalker, Syndicate Death Squads, Gragsta 3, Zenuka. The same should apply to Stalker Player. 

Yes, I know some players are against it but hey, we are just some vocal MINORITIES and by no means your voice is holy word of Majority.

Besides most players DON'T KNOW what they even want. In popularity wins "Content" and then "Story".

Ok, first off I actually quite enjoy soloing Spy missions because I think they're good, with Rescue missions too sometimes. I often think it's a shame that Warframe is a game about space ninjas which has so little emphasis on stealth and subtlety, but that's for a different topic. So, yes, actually, the answer is yes to that. Any mission which involves cracking prisons and vaults, I tend to enjoy, regardless of the rewards.

 

And then...eh, Kontrollo, recall that thing I pointed out? "You don't know what you want! So DE should give me what I want!" Despite being told over and over and over again that actually, no, players do know what they want, and they want to be able to play the game without being forced into PvP.

 

Aramil, please stop insisting that you speak for some vast silent majority, and similarly, if you want to engage on the forums you gotta stop pulling the card which says "This is just the forums, the broader community is totally different!" I mean, maybe the broader community is totally different!...but your argument is here. And it ain't good.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

1 minute ago, Aramil999 said:

If opt-out button would kill great mode that can be cure for everlasting "Content Drought" then do you really know what you want?

1. Forced PVP is not going to cure the content drought.
2. I still know what I want. Opt-out.

[Kontrollo]

10 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

If opt-out button would kill great mode that can be cure for everlasting "Content Drought" then do you really know what you want?

That question is pretty much moot, because a) it won't kill the mode, as long as people see some at least some value in doing it, even if a part of the player base wants to opt out categorically, and b) Stalker mode won't be a panacea; from what we've seen so far I'd wager it's way too limited to be a full mode on its own -- a snack on the side, not a main dish.

(Yes, this is all just speculation again)

 

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

And then...eh, Kontrollo, recall that thing I pointed out? "You don't know what you want! So DE should give me what I want!" Despite being told over and over and over again that actually, no, players do know what they want, and they want to be able to play the game without being forced into PvP.

And I said ask 3 people here and you get five opinions. Not sure how that relates to me?

 

I think maybe you people just enjoy this back-and-forth you're doing way too much. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, Kontrollo said:

 

 

And I said ask 3 people here and you get five opinions. Not sure how that relates to me?

 

I think maybe you people just enjoy this back-and-forth you're doing way too much. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's that by now, the profoundly daft rhetorical gymnastics are becoming predictable. You know that Aramil said that Stalker mode would attract more new players to the game than we had playing Plains of Eidolon?

[DatDarkOne]

17 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

If opt-out button would kill great mode that can be cure for everlasting "Content Drought" then do you really know what you want?

Uhh but the stalker mode wouldn't be adding content.  So that's a strange statement. 

18 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

? I know that 99% people do not see futher into future than 1 day but please think about future possibilities and how that can be great addition to game ONLY if it is alive

You do not know this for a fact because there have been well thought out replies given to you.  By nature of them being well thought out means that they have indeed thought about the future possibilities past one day.  This statement is actually borderline insulting of everyone's intelligence that have posted in this topic for or against.  

Please take this as the constructive criticism that it is . 

[Kontrollo]

5 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

It's that by now, the profoundly daft rhetorical gymnastics are becoming predictable. You know that Aramil said that Stalker mode would attract more new players to the game than we had playing Plains of Eidolon?

I could say the same about Railjack, the parkour race mode (?), Melee 3.0, or the -- by now mystical -- return of Solar Rails. As long as we don't know what these things entail that's a non-statement. You should quote that, however, otherwise it's a strawman.

[BornWithTeeth]

9 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

I could say the same about Railjack, the parkour race mode (?), Melee 3.0, or the -- by now mystical -- return of Solar Rails. As long as we don't know what these things entail that's a non-statement. You should quote that, however, otherwise it's a strawman.

I mean, the dude did kinda say that making Warframe PvP focused by adding this invasion system would bring in literally millions of new players.

 

 

 

[Kontrollo]

25 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Uhh but the stalker mode wouldn't be adding content.  So that's a strange statement. 

That's where he's right, though: Stalker mode is definitely adding content. PvP -- in whatever form -- has a lot of replayability value simply because you're facing a real, thinking opponent. That has nothing to do whether you like that kind of interaction, however.

 

@BornWithTeeth Well you kinda did pull a strawman there -- but of course wild speculations like that are indeed laughable.

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Kontrollo said:

 

 

@BornWithTeeth Well you kinda did pull a strawman there -- but of course wild speculations like that are indeed laughable.

How is it a strawman? He literally said those things, and I quoted them and provided links. 

 

Dude...what's your definition of strawman?

 

 

Wait. You thought I was making it up and that it turned out to be an accident that I was right? Is that what just happened?

Edited February 6, 2019 by BornWithTeeth

[Kontrollo]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

How is it a strawman? He literally said those things, and I quoted them and provided links.

In your previous post I mean, he did not literally say that. Not that what he said was much better. I could as well say this game should fuse with Fortnight to create the Ultimate Online Experience^TM. It doesn't add anything of value.

[BornWithTeeth]

6 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

In your previous post I mean, he did not literally say that. Not that what he said was much better. I could as well say this game should fuse with Fortnight to create the Ultimate Online Experience^TM. It doesn't add anything of value.

At the risk of sounding a little harsh, by now he's not contributing very much other than basically yelling about how he is right, everyone who disagrees with him is wrong, and people who disagree with him just don't know what they want, and how anything said on the forums is not representative, unless it agrees with him in which case it proves him right, etc, etc.

 

As regards the issue of whether Stalker mode would be completely dead once people get all the drops from it and make it optional...man, people are still playing Syndicate missions and getting Syndicate rep. They're a steady, reliable source of Relic packs, so even though by now players who've been in the game a couple of years have all of the one-time rewards from their offerings, people still grind Syndicate rep for the evergreen rewards, the Relic packs, the trade-able Augments, weapons, and Archwing components, etc.

 

So, if Stalker mode is a Syndicate, and getting a successful kill is basically a guaranteed rare Relic plus the actual fun of the invasion, then of course the mode's not gonna drop dead.

[DatDarkOne]

15 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

That's where he's right, though: Stalker mode is definitely adding content. PvP -- in whatever form -- has a lot of replayability value simply because you're facing a real, thinking opponent. That has nothing to do whether you like that kind of interaction, however

Sorry, but one PvP replayable feature isn't adding content. Especially if it's just a feature thrown in to existing modes.  That classifies as a feature and not content.  At least by the classic definition of the word content.  

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

Sorry, but one PvP replayable feature isn't adding content. Especially if it's just a feature thrown in to existing modes.  That classifies as a feature and not content.  At least by the classic definition of the word content.  

Mild disagreement.

If it's implemented as a Stalker Syndicate with a rewards table as oppose to just a random drop list, then that would be adding a form of content.

 

Not, like, a huge amount of content, but, yeah, technically a form of replayable content.