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Has DE discussed possibility of skins like female frost or male valkyr?

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Stop trying to treat Warframe like a piece of meat. They are sentient. Stop trying to physically change how they are without consent. #Warframelivesmatter

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11 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

And what you are talking about is a huge amount of work. Deluxe skins are just another skin. You want new animations and stuff. If DE did something like that, these new skins would cost a fortune.

Warframe is different from other games. The frames don't speak, so there's no voice over stuff that needs to happen to make this viable, and we can already use whatever animations we want. Don't overthink this. If DE doesn't want to do this, that is what it is, but it's not a "huge amount of work". At least it's no more work than any other skin. 

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4 hours ago, Arcira said:

Disagree. This is a forum and the place where you can express your wishes. The more people talk to a topic the more information you get about your playerbase.

Also "DE said no" ins´t an opinion. Those replies should be removed instead.

Example for an actual reply: I think this is a good/bad idea because ...

OP asks a question. "Has DE discussed possibility of genderbent skins?"

People respond by saying, "They have, and they've said no".

And somehow those are the posts that need to be removed? They're literally answering the question as it was presented. Who cares if they aren't adding their opinion?

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9 minutes ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

De has said no and with the sacrifice giving us more info on what warframes are and how they were made it wouldn't make sense.

Fair enough if DE said no, but I don't think there's any reason to discuss what makes sense...

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I would seriously love if a major push came for this, ESPECIALLY since Tennogen is a thing now. Maybe have them do it?

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7 minutes ago, Ryusuta said:

I would seriously love if a major push came for this, ESPECIALLY since Tennogen is a thing now. Maybe have them do it?

Problem is Tennogen can't fiddle with the base models. While allowing players to completely customize large aspects of the basic model sounds great, this can and will impact the skeleton of the model which in turn requires the skeleton to be rigged to the animation separately from other models. This means that implementing a new base model would be significantly harder than applying a Tennogen skin onto an existing model.

It's a lot of extra behind the scenes work to get new models into the game without body parts flipping out, stretching and shrinking all over compared to just skins.

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42 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Problem is Tennogen can't fiddle with the base models. While allowing players to completely customize large aspects of the basic model sounds great, this can and will impact the skeleton of the model which in turn requires the skeleton to be rigged to the animation separately from other models. This means that implementing a new base model would be significantly harder than applying a Tennogen skin onto an existing model.

It's a lot of extra behind the scenes work to get new models into the game without body parts flipping out, stretching and shrinking all over compared to just skins.

OBJECTION!

Look at the insane variety of character model edits in Smash 4 that people do on GameBanana. Matching up a 3D model to another model's skeleton can be tricky in some situations, but it is by no means a deal-breaker and isn't even close to the most difficult aspect of 3D modeling.

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5 hours ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

De has said no and with the sacrifice giving us more info on what warframes are and how they were made it wouldn't make sense.

That could be said about all skins/deluxes so already sort of a non point. I'm also not sure there is any information around presently to even suggest this wouldn't be lore friendly. 

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6 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

OP asks a question. "Has DE discussed possibility of genderbent skins?"

People respond by saying, "They have, and they've said no".

And somehow those are the posts that need to be removed? They're literally answering the question as it was presented. Who cares if they aren't adding their opinion?

True OP ask in this post. Nonetheless here is the Quote again:

"Over the years I've played, I've seen a solid dozen of these threads. It goes the same every time. OP suggests genderbent frames, people respond "DE said no", ..."

The context is very important.

It´s not an explicite answer to the question and it isn´t supposed to be one .And this is the reason I quoted him instead of other people with at first glance similar statements. It shows the general behaviour in this forum every time someone suggest something. And to clarify things that´s what I´m talking about. Otherwise I´d have quoted other posts above mine as well.

My opinion is still the same "DE said no" isn´t an opinion and should be removed (restriction: within a discussion?). However I didn´t say you can´t use these words to answer a question of cause. Nonetheless most of the time this phrasing is used to shut down a suggestion they don´t like without actual arguments.

Edited by Arcira

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If they had the time to model a whole frame and give it a unique animation, i'd honestly rather made that into a whole new frame.

 

Edit : kinda like the buff female frame they showed us last devstream. They could've easily made that a female rhino but at the same time they could (and did) turn it into a completely different frame instead.

Edited by (PS4)watt4hem
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14 hours ago, mcKentucky said:

They had already released a male skin for Nezha. Pretty much sure they will release more.

Sorry to break it to you but Nezha is male, even in his base skin.
So they released a male skin for a male frame...No gender bending there.

1 hour ago, Arcira said:

My opinion is still the same "DE said no" isn´t an opinion and should be removed (restriction: within a discussion?). However I didn´t say you can´t use these words to answer a question of cause. Nonetheless most of the time this phrasing is used to shut down a suggestion they don´t like without actual arguments.

So why should discussions be completely devoid of facts or statements from what has happened int eh past every time the argument has been brought up?
The argument that "DE has said no because..." is a valid argument against implementations like this.  Its pointing out that this has already been discussed (to death and back), DE has addressed it (multiple times), and have said No every time because if they are going to do the vast majority of work to create a new frame they are just going to create a new frame instead of reskining an old one because it makes more sense to them and adds more to the game.

It's just like asking "Why don't frames have innate elemental resistances?" a good answer is "DE has said no" and "DE has said no because..." because those threads are a dime a dozen and have been answered over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Sure you can argue "Its not good in my opinion because...." for hours upon hours...but when the thread has already been answered by DE time and time again it serves little point and its perfectly valid to bring up that DE has shot down the idea before and will do so again.  Further bringing up points like "DE has shot this down before" can add important context to the conversation and points being raised by one side.

1 hour ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

If they had the time to model a whole frame and give it a unique animation, i'd honestly rather made that into a whole new frame.

 

Edit : kinda like the buff female frame they showed us last devstream. They could've easily made that a female rhino but at the same time they could (and did) turn it into a completely different frame instead.

And this is a major reason that they won't just release a new female skin for a frame: Because most players would honestly rather have a new frame to play with that adds something to the game instead of a skin that adds absolutely nothing that only a tiny fraction of the player base is going to buy and that represents a lot of spent time and effort.

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2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

And this is a major reason that they won't just release a new female skin for a frame: Because most players would honestly rather have a new frame to play with that adds something to the game instead of a skin that adds absolutely nothing that only a tiny fraction of the player base is going to buy and that represents a lot of spent time and effort.

That´s hardly a reason in my opinion. Instead of creating "new" warframes you could as well create alternative ability sets for existing ones and alter there playstyle in addition to the skin and animations. Similar effort.

2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

So why should discussions be completely devoid of facts or statements from what has happened int eh past every time the argument has been brought up?
The argument that "DE has said no because..." is a valid argument against implementations like this.  Its pointing out that this has already been discussed (to death and back), DE has addressed it (multiple times), and have said No every time because if they are going to do the vast majority of work to create a new frame they are just going to create a new frame instead of reskining an old one because it makes more sense to them and adds more to the game.

Implying someone really want to use an argument of the past:

Whether something has been discussed or not is irrelevant. Games evolve and opinions change. And if you don´t want to stagnate you need to keep the discussions alive.

Nonetheless alot of people don´t want to argue in the first place. They don´t like it: "DE said no" just because. If you don´t have or want to provide any meaningfull information or context, fine. But don´t waste space with pointless phrases.

2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

It's just like asking "Why don't frames have innate elemental resistances?" a good answer is "DE has said no" and "DE has said no because..." because those threads are a dime a dozen and have been answered over and over and over and over and over and over again.

As far as I know they do have resistances from there armor type but I could be wrong, doesn´t matter anyway. If I suggest and point out why innate resistances would be a good addition to the game I don´t need someone telling me "DE said no". This kind of reply adds nothing to a discussion and is equally useless as: "this has been ask many times", "no", "powercreep!", etc. Even if it´s the 1000 time someone does a suggestion it just shows people are interested in this topic.

3 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Sure you can argue "Its not good in my opinion because...." for hours upon hours...but when the thread has already been answered by DE time and time again it serves little point and its perfectly valid to bring up that DE has shot down the idea before and will do so again.  Further bringing up points like "DE has shot this down before" can add important context to the conversation and points being raised by one side.

Yes that´s possible. And it´s fine to use arguments of the past if they are still valid. You already did give an example how it should be done "DE said no because..."

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On 2019-01-30 at 2:14 PM, (PS4)lokaspoka said:

I like some of the female frames abilitys but avoid using them cuz they aint a male frame

WHY

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Maybe they need to go in some next level and stop just saying no. If they can create 2 vesrion male and female outfits just for operator that we have like 20 version for now,then they can do the same with warframes. And we already have 1000 animations so we dont need that,just what we need is skins for mele female frames that can bee done because they are much better and bigger company then before. This skin can bee only with platinum so win win for all...

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On 2019-01-30 at 5:14 PM, (PS4)lokaspoka said:

I like some of the female frames abilitys but avoid using them cuz they aint a male frame

then i'd say you need to get over yourself. it doesn't matter if the frame has a feminine form or not, they are all designed to do one thing: kill groups of enemies efficiently. I always used to play as male characters in my younger days, but then realised "what does it matter, when female protags like Lara Croft and Samus exist: who still kick a$$ in their respective universes, and wouldn't be any better or worse at it if they were male?". gender is an absolute non-factor in a combat scenario, even the British Armed Forces, which kept women out of Combat Roles, is now allowing Women to take part in all roles, including the Special Forces.

it doesn't matter if you have b00bs, if you are trained and equipped, you can fight as well as any man. with warframes it doesn't matter if your kid is male and the frame is female, you're still the same as a male operator with Rhino or a female operator with Nyx: a kid who is controlling a killing machine. as for gender Bending, DE don't seem to be intent on changing their stance any time soon.

 

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On 2019-01-31 at 3:12 AM, Ryusuta said:

OBJECTION!

Look at the insane variety of character model edits in Smash 4 that people do on GameBanana. Matching up a 3D model to another model's skeleton can be tricky in some situations, but it is by no means a deal-breaker and isn't even close to the most difficult aspect of 3D modeling.

You seem to be making the assumption that community made skins that are made for free without the developer's approval are similar to community made skins that are made for free that can be approved by the developer for further monetization that benefits both parties. One is obviously going to have more time and quality spent on them due to the fact that's what is expected. Also, it's also assuming that Smash 4 and Warframe have similar animation rigs, which they clearly don't.

A single character in Smash 4 is only supposed to use it's own animation set since it can be heavily tied to the model (ex. Game and Watch). But in Warframe, a single character has to be rigged to use all of the current and universal animation sets that already exist in-game. Creating a complete new model would of course be work for either TennoGen artist or developer, and that's not the point of TennoGen. It's supposed to allow people to create the skins they want, with barely any developer intervention (besides the feedback they can give on an item), only technical restrictions. At most, they may have to make sure that certain helmets work properly, but they aren't going to edit someone else's item themselves. 

You see, it could be possible for custom TennoGen models for Warframes to be made, but to be honest, it's going to be a lot of work for either party to have to deal with. 

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6 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

then i'd say you need to get over yourself. it doesn't matter if the frame has a feminine form or not, they are all designed to do one thing: kill groups of enemies efficiently. I always used to play as male characters in my younger days, but then realised "what does it matter, when female protags like Lara Croft and Samus exist: who still kick a$$ in their respective universes, and wouldn't be any better or worse at it if they were male?". gender is an absolute non-factor in a combat scenario, even the British Armed Forces, which kept women out of Combat Roles, is now allowing Women to take part in all roles, including the Special Forces.

it doesn't matter if you have b00bs, if you are trained and equipped, you can fight as well as any man. with warframes it doesn't matter if your kid is male and the frame is female, you're still the same as a male operator with Rhino or a female operator with Nyx: a kid who is controlling a killing machine. as for gender Bending, DE don't seem to be intent on changing their stance any time soon.

 

What is that logic? You don´t like something get over it?

If I don´t like something the last thing I want is getting forced to play it. Everyone has different preferences someone focus more on lore some on gameplay and some on charackters.

For example the Witcher is a good game but one reasons I stopped playing was because I didn´t like the main protagonist. Same rule applies to all other games including warframe. Appearance does matter a lot for some poeple and it´s one reason warframe is popular. Due to the amount of customization.

Edited by Arcira
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On 2019-01-30 at 6:15 PM, kuchn said:

I want gender neutral or third gender skins.
I think it is highly discriminatory for DE to only have male and female frames. Especially considering the ongoing and growing discussion going on in canada one could expect more sensibility towards this subject.
I also feel disturbed by obvious innuendos and upfront sexual remarks by officially supported youtubers and DE staff themselves.

In fact I think we should totally switch to replacing warframes with spirit beings that have cloudlike shapes.
WTB more PC please

The sensibility to this subject is science. It is in, it is definitive. I am sick and tired of identity politics creeping into every facet of our lives to placate an extremely tiny minority of people. You do you. Let DE do Warframe. 

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On 2019-01-31 at 8:14 AM, Ryusuta said:

I would seriously love if a major push came for this, ESPECIALLY since Tennogen is a thing now. Maybe have them do it?

Oh God please no, dont let fanbase ruin this game any more.

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55 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

The sensibility to this subject is science. It is in, it is definitive. I am sick and tired of identity politics creeping into every facet of our lives to placate an extremely tiny minority of people. You do you. Let DE do Warframe.

is this the patriarchal matriarchy speaking?

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