Jump to content
[DE]Rebecca

Chat Moderation Changes and Additions Report!

Recommended Posts

For science, I wanted to test if a perfectly valid question would get you chat banned by the chatbot:

JTuPtR6.png

Yep, still broken.

  • Woah 1
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On ‎2019‎-‎03‎-‎02 at 1:16 AM, epilef1993 said:

Ive shared this in my first post but i don't mind sharing it again since its been 14 pages. I never knew that "trap" was a slur, more over i thought it was a positive attribute for some people.

I believe you. But until DE addresses the filter, even using it in the context in which you used it is a no-no. Are you still banned, by the way/how long was your suspension?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rhekemi said:

I believe you. But until DE addresses the filter, even using it in the context in which you used it is a no-no. Are you still banned, by the way/how long was your suspension?

Given how there's a perfectly valid example where the word trap can be used with a warframe and it gets you auto-banned, Kickbot being oblivious to context is a problem.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

For science, I wanted to test if a perfectly valid question would get you chat banned by the chatbot:

JTuPtR6.png

Yep, still broken.

 

Yep.

And still zero responses from ANY employees towards anything discussed within this topic.

 

@[DE]Rebecca Still nothing to say on any of the points & feedback discussed throughout this topic? Not the best way to try and restore trust in a broken system.

  • Like 8
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Sean said:

 

@[DE]Rebecca Still nothing to say on any of the points & feedback discussed throughout this topic? Not the best way to try and restore trust in a broken system.

Actually not even this, Reb posted some useless info with 0 detail, and someone said "pls make it more obscure because trolls", and she replied she would be more obscure, I mean, What? 

Literally being obscure it the last thing we need right now, from no response, to obscure response, is hardly an evolution.

Also I don't remember who atm, but someone several pages ago made a very big and though out list of possible improvements for kickbot, Seriously no replies for that post, I mean if you want constructive criticism that's as good as you are going to get.

Edited by Kaizal
  • Like 5
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

I believe you. But until DE addresses the filter, even using it in the context in which you used it is a no-no. Are you still banned, by the way/how long was your suspension?

 

2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Given how there's a perfectly valid example where the word trap can be used with a warframe and it gets you auto-banned, Kickbot being oblivious to context is a problem.

 

My duration was 24h, but was my first ban in warframe in 1k hours of gameplay, since there isn't any information regarding if there is any strike system or if it get exponentially worst cant say its the same for all.

Maybe Almagnus1 The Fallen can share the amount he got when he gets out of the pit.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Given how there's a perfectly valid example where the word trap can be used with a warframe and it gets you auto-banned, Kickbot being oblivious to context is a problem.

They have two options now, one is to just improve Kickbot by making it more permissive, being more transparent on various things that people have already mentioned: why the punishment, duration, and as much information about it as possible. Now this has the obvious disadvantage that its more permissive towards trolls.

The other is to make it so the chat regulations and more report and flagging oriented, Kickbot flags, players report, and moderators decide the punishment, now this obviously requires more monetary investment, but its either that or keep a broken region chat.

Also you can do a combination of both, literally someone took the time like 100 posts ago to compile really good and structured suggestions and its bugging me that didn't get a reply from DE.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, epilef1993 said:

 

 

My duration was 24h, but was my first ban in warframe in 1k hours of gameplay, since there isn't any information regarding if there is any strike system or if it get exponentially worst cant say its the same for all.

Maybe Almagnus1 The Fallen can share the amount he got when he gets out of the pit.

Pretty sure it scales up to a week(not like DE is transparent on this, so no way to know for sure).

Edited by Kaizal
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
Quote

Maybe Almagnus1 The Fallen can share the amount he got when he gets out of the pit.

I'm honestly expecting a full duration ban as I knowingly did the chat equivalent of looking down the barrel of the Hek and pulling the trigger without being Baruk.

 

Edited by Almagnus1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you take region out and make trade and recruitment very word specific so the cancer doesn't spread to those tabs all of the issues go away. Region serves as others have said no purpose. The players that complain the most want the right to be toxic and honestly I don't care whether you can turn region tab off or not I choose to keep it on because if I see any of my clan members participating in racial, gay bashing etc. obscenities they get kicked. The moderation is broken because of numerous attempts to fix the cancer problem. When you give people the freedom to say whatever they want this is what happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

18 hours ago, TypeZeroTheNirvash said:

Solution: Turn region off in your settings

if you read his message (above) he stated you can turn it off... we all know this.  It just doesn't need to be in the game / it serves no purpose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, (PS4)SCHEISER said:

 

if you read his message (above) he stated you can turn it off... we all know this.  It just doesn't need to be in the game / it serves no purpose.

I've found region to be a great place for tips and random bits of information. Basically every question I've had about the fundamental aspects of this game over the last 1.5 years I've been playing it have been answered in region chat.

Just because it serves no purpose for you doesn't mean it serves no purpose for someone else. Trying to get such a thing removed simply because you don't like it, despite the fact that you can very easily disable any and all possible interaction you have with it... is completely absurd. It's the equivalent of people complaining about wanting tv shows banned when they could simply turn the channel.

And if the purpose of you not changing the channel is because you want to police the thought-crimes of your fellow clanmates, then I'd say you have entirely different problems you should be looking into instead of trying to get a chat channel removed.

  • Applause 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I see in region chat is new players asking questions that have there chat comments quickly disappear because of the constant spamming of garbage that is not warframe related. The other night I watched region players trying to use the n word in different ways to bypass the kickbot for about 45mn. In order to answer a new players question I have to PM them because my answer will never get seen by them as an end result no other new players can see that question or answer to learn anything. The new player experience is pretty bad and when region is all you got if your not in a clan your screwed. This how you lose new players fast. I'm glad you have a great experience with region but my opinions stand.  The moderation is broken as an end result of trying to control the crap and legit players are getting kicked for saying legit words in the meantime I still get to watch all the classy conversations. When a clan member pms me and says look at region and I see one of my members participating in racial bashing that will bleed into my clan chat eventually because they think it's ok to do that anywhere since you can in region. I'm going to kick them and tell them why. I guess I do have serious problems with trying to keep warframe respectable.

  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Le 27/02/2019 à 18:19, D20 a dit :

I'll remain neutral on that subject tbh. It's usually better if the one person you add for moderation is also on good terms with the community, indeed. I've seen multiple forums where people could elect their moderators, with usually positive results, though there was indeed a some moments where it went in an absolutely terrible way.

Good god no. You pick moderators who are as minimally biased as possible and are able to emotionally distance themselves from both the community (they are to serve and not *be served by*) and the developers (because you need to be able to speak truth to power and being a "yes" person whilst great for your career doesn't do much for the health of the community). Moderators who are either community activists or developer white knights are in equal parts really, really bad for the community long run.

Pick people who are not afraid to speak up when there are issues, pick people who are willing to look at context as well as both the spirit and the letter of the law. Whatever you do, don't do a Discord. 😄

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@[DE]Rebecca Are you still looking for moderators? I've been integrating my helping hand into the community for a while and someone mentioned that DE was looking for moderators. I've run, admin, and moderated on several platforms, and always acted objectively, fairly, and justly. If you still need somebody I'm willing, as I'm usually active all day on this game. Please let me know at your leisure.

 

Thank You,

IL420 aka CG420

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

You professionals from DE evidently lack the professionality, because otherwise you wouldn't be keeping problematic Chat Moderators in their functions.

Rahetalius did a good job in pointing out real issues, yet by DE logic, all he said is nonsense. DE, how you responded on his video was childish, and frankly, I am starting to believe more and more that people in your team can't handle constructive feedback and cry when some appear.

These changes are another joke and change nothing.

Edited by CoreXCZ
  • Like 2
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hatred shouldn't be automated.

Also, when a moderator manually bans you, often times, it will be silent on your side, so your chat will simply stop moving, and you won't know you were banned, why you were banned, etc. Additionally, often times things go straight to "well time to ban everyone who had anything to do with it without asking nicely if they could maybe not do that", so I feel like there are problems.

And don't even get me started on the memes that users post. Sheesh. Like, how many people have you ever seen use them in a non-memey, legitimately, and intentionally malicious way? I don't think I've ever seen anyone use it maliciously. If the mere WORD offends you, then maybe it's not the word that's the problem, but you're just a little too thin-skinned. It would help to learn from that and get a little thicker skin, and grow as a person from that, because in life, if you have a thin skin, you are not going to have a good time. 

I don't know. Take this as you will. The whole situation is just. Heads in the sand, buried as far down as possible.
I'm sorry if this post offends anyone. Hormones are fun.

  • Like 2
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

It's not enough to just say that you're being transparent, you still have to BE transparent.

I, along with many others, have been very patient in waiting for an actual response and it is very disappointing how everyone at DE at least APPEARS to be pretending this topic does not exist as still zero replies have been made within this topic by an employee in regards to the feedback and critiques.

 

I'll make a nice little list of some areas that need to be addressed:

  • How is that some chat moderators can still BE chat moderators when they don't even meet the Guidelines own rule on how to be a chat moderator?
    • " We look for a history of positive contributions to the community and a spotless Warframe account history."
  • Why are words like "trap" given blanket bans when words like that should be far more contextual?
    • If someone can say the phrase "Remember to use your traps when using Vauban." and be banned for it, there's something wrong.
    • Just implement a user-made blacklist so if a person find a word "offensive", they can remove it with even a choice of [*] or deleting the full line.
    • Additionally since even the definition that some people try to cling to as their reason for it being offensive doesn't apply to even everyone within that, or similar, communities.
  • Why is there still no information in-game for how long a person's ban will last?
  • Why is there still no information in-game for why a person was given a ban?
  • Why is there no publicly available list of all chat moderators?
  • Why is the list of forum moderators within this topic still not updated?
  • Why are other non-official websites such as Twitter and Reddit used over the Official Forums?
    • Would be best to have a snippet within the other areas and have them point towards the Official Forums.
    • Here's a topic with more on that.
  • If a bug is read & subsequently submitted, why not post in the topic that it was read from with a small "Thank you for the bug report"?
  • Nepotism is a concern and how will that be combated as little has been done to help restore trust?
  • Can you give more context to these "Reports" being posted @[DE]Rebecca?
    • Will say this this post was actually refreshing as it gave much needed context to what was being said by that user.
  • Can anything be said on who this "third-party company" would be or at least some examples of their history?
Edited by Sean
  • Like 2
  • Applause 2
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what would really help with this entire situation?

Anonymize the chat, so there's context, then highlight the offensive phrase and let the user base decide if what was said is ban worthy or not - and give the system an opt out and put it in the inbox (well, part of it), so that way the dev team can better understand what the player base understands to be as offensive, which is likely at odds to how the existing systems work.

By sampling (say) a thousand players from the same chat channel (or more), it allows DE to better understand their playerbase as part of this disconnect with the chat moderation are some elements at DE going "this is offensive" when the playerbase may see it as little more than a crude joke.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought this had changed, bur apparently not, had access to region suspended without being told why or for how long again.

I assume it's because me and some others were discussing the moderation of the chat and some of the people who get to do what they please without repurcussions.

Bit sad now, cause I thought this was fixed and done.

  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 2019-03-17 at 6:39 AM, Zaamel said:

I thought this had changed, bur apparently not, had access to region suspended without being told why or for how long again.

I assume it's because me and some others were discussing the moderation of the chat and some of the people who get to do what they please without repurcussions.

Bit sad now, cause I thought this was fixed and done.

Lol no. It's been pointed out time and time again, but the most recent response to this whole mess from DE that I know of was "Stop attacking our developers".

It's been broken for years and years. There's fault on both ends, but ultimately the power rests with DE to fix it.

Edited by Stinker
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't fix toxic mods by hiring their friends to "overlook" them.

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I have to say I love the region I am on, apart from the usual trolls (trying to trigger people or kickbaiting) people can joke around about any kind of subject (even controversial ones) and everyone rightfully takes it as a joke, I know that DE has the rigth to moderate the chat has they please, but I can see that PC regions have a 0 policy tolerance.

The users that said "No, I beat my wife", "I like little girls" and "there is only one gender, male, females are property"  need context to be properly used as an example. "No, I beat my wife" could have been used as a joke for all we know, the "I LIKE LITTLE GIRLS" could be a reference to the so popular song that is hard not to come by, and the "there is only one gender, male, females are property" should not be shown has an apart example but together whit every comment related to gender/sex (both pro and con since gender/sex isn't something you should discuss in region at all, be it supportive or not)

One thing Moderation fails at is context, banning only if it is something against an idea that might offend someone (which is basically most things, be it politics, religion, gender/sex, sexuality, RP and so on), wen the ban should apply to talking about certain topics as a whole. (For example banning people over talking bad about X gender or Y religion and doing nothing wen people openly talk about those things in region as long as it is pro and not con, wen it point blank should not event be spoken of at all since all it does is create a war of opinions and ideas) isnt right in many ways, if you want to moderate a chat dont ban the "bad opinions" but ban the subject as a whole, dont want people talking about gender ? Ban the topic. Dont want people talking about religion ? Ban the topic. Dont want people talking about Politics ? Ban th- I think you get the point.

I hope that the whole bias stops once and for all, giving slaps on the wrists because some players (that I will not specify) fill the "diversity quota" while banning others who did the same but dont fill the "diversity quota" isn't the best way to show indifference. (And this comes from me who would also fill the "diversity quota" spot), you guys have to understand people arent mad/worried about "I got banned for X, this is unfair !" but because of "I got banned for X but Y did the same and didnt get banned because Y is Z".

So has someone interested in moderation (since my region has no moderation whatsoever and I will try to go for GotL wen the new tryouts start. (maybe thats why we are so chill whit everything apart from the usual troll)) I will leave my 2 cents here, keep an eye on the bias, teach the mods that they cant have a bias because X is friends of Y, and punish them wen they disregard that ; for the love of god give players the reasons why they got banned to stop the "Why did I get banned threads", if reason was given (like : you said X phrase) people would not suspect so much about unfair bans ; Please pay more attention to your GotLs and Mods, and DO NOT give them slaps on the wrists because they have a controversial aspect to them (I speak about gender/sex, sexuality and religion). If DE menages to checkmark all of this aspects of moderation, then on that day will I personally find moderation fair and unbiased, from both DE and the Mods.

Edited by (PS4)d_HopeCraft_b
  • Haha 1
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There needs to be a REMOVAL of the *Slow down Cpt Capslock* or a code that works off of % of the caps in the post. I made a guide on Rescue missions and it got spanked by the bot for having caps in it. Really?  And of course Im on a chat ban because the idiot bot PO'd me and I told the bot *FU bot*. 

You make plenty of money. Hire Moderators and get rid of the bot. PERIOD!

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...