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[DE]Rebecca

Chat Moderation Changes and Additions Report!

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Kind of odd how this thread isn't pinned. I do think this is a rather important topic, so wouldn't it be worth pinning?

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I have been in for about a year I think because I remember my first best stuff was all the Dex stuff so happy 6 DE! I received my first chat ban last Thursday or Friday. I can picture that it was well deserved. On the other hand, I have no idea what I actually did to get chat banned.  I sent in a few Zendesk tickets and CS has no idea either.

Moving forward: Your (DE) reason for banning people from chat is to have them adhere to your (DE) standards of in game civility. I'm on board, it is your game, it's your chat. If you can't tell any player what they did wrong how can you expect them to course correct? As far as I am concerned I did nothing wrong and was banned for no reason. I have learned nothing and cannot therefore modify my behavior in any reasonable way.

So my feedback Idea is that your (DE) mods should screen cap or at least note what the ban reason was.

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 Most chat suspensions are automated.  They might be able to log what was said, but they rarely have accidental chat bans.  They have worked on the filters for a few years and are confident in the system.

 I have received one chat ban but it was quite a while ago as it was only an hour and not a day or longer.  They changed policy since then and I believe the chat ban was because I had named one of the mission nodes while I was in region chat rather than in recruiting.

 It may have been silly, but as the real problems had not gotten out of control, it wasn't a long ban and I only felt inconvenienced for a few moments before I just played some more.

 As it is now though, most people know exactly what they were typing when they got banned.  They just don't understand why a ridiculous copy paste of a bad tasteless joke gets them banned.

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So my main point here is to get DE to tell people what they F'd up. I'm not the type to do a Nezha arcane type / joke already made. I don't even hang out in region chat. So I must have done something wrong in recruiting or my clan reported me. Friggin no idea, just want to open relics /play game. TY tho

JHarlequin

 

My clan is all Brazil at this point I don't think they know what I say nor I them

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I'm in the "feedback" section, where are you guys? TY though

This is my "feedback" idea to make it better. My current ban is what it is: Nobody say notin' = banned

Ill live

 

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Also, chat ban issue is must be deal with customer service part. Here is not the place to do that, I have seen many threads argue for it are locked by the moderators, and moderators in here are nothing to do with that - they are the FORUM moderators, not the game administrators, after all, means they don't have the authority to do something in the first place.

And chat ban enough to make a ticket is not so easily applied, both automatically and manually. You are did say so badly and get caught by either moderators, channel bots or by the system, or the system is flawed and you are accidentally get caught by it. I have seen a moderator says, 'even if you are accidentally get caught by automatical ban you will know that you must not do it again'. If you are actually did something wrong, it can be applied.

All 'chat ban' I can see most times is 'kicked' from region chat due to say something related to trade or recuit on there, whatever it is accidentally, intentionally, or simply get caught by some specific word(for example, on my country's region chat if you say something like 'you can buy something on the market on orbiter' can be kicked because you said 'buy'). And in this case you may return the chat after for a while.

 

Sure, they are not perfect and mistakes may happens. The checking system is not the perfect one either. But usually such long term ban is not so easily applied. You need to ask WHY you are banned on the CS, though, whatever you or DE make a mistake. If you are actually did a mistake, you need to know it what is the problem and you will not do it again, and if DE did something wrong you have the right to protest as well as they are try to not commit the same mistake. Anyway, I will not judge for it because I can't know your case.

Edited by DroopingPuppy

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Hmm, you seem to be lost in the sauce @DroopingPuppy. My original purpose was to presuppose a change where, if you got banned, you could see why. If you knew why you might possibly avoid it in the future. You are all aware we are in the feedback section? Not the "submit ticket section." I just think that would help steer the chat habits they have toward the chat habits they want.

My case is unimportant. Sorry I should not have included it.

 

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*introduce idea ( pre pose) Not imagine before hand. I know what the words men just not so much how to spell and autocoreckd.

 

Edited by DangerHobo
autocorected totally wrong word

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Intro /  Rant 

I've gotten banned recently for a meme (a single message) recently The message was a meme, that is commonly told about Nezha. My message was about equinox, I think that "bad" word was contextually appropriate (by the definition of that bad word). Just to make it clear, the message was not directed at a person, a group or really anything it was just put out there as an observation about equinox. Due to the nature of the ban, I was certain that I've offended a moderator and got banned by a moderator abusing the power they hold. 

My apologies to the chat moderators, for that assumption I now know you were just following orders.

Anyways, I was absolutely certain it was an unjust ban (because: 18+ game, they don't shy away from dirty jokes on official streams and general tone of region chat), so I contacted support about it, and explained that I got banned by a moderator  that took offense to a message, that I don't feel is offensive. I've been surprised by the responses of that conversation. I've been told that meme is illegal to which I responded with a question asking, for other arbitrary words /  phrases / memes are illegal. Here's a quote from the final answer.

Quote

If you are purposely being insulting, you'll get restricted, if you are being inappropriate in anyway, you will be restricted. "[meme format]" has become basically a meme, and the majority of the community is fully aware that this will get you chat kicked / banned. Due to the sheer volume of users purposely using it in an offensive way is why that word was removed.

In case you missed it, that message implies that unless you know in advance that the meme ( that must not be spoken ) is "illegal" you will get banned for saying it (no warnings - just instant ban).

Pardon me, for not being in the majority that knew.....

Anways, back on topic. I don't know about you, but apart from that 1 meme being illegal, I didn't learn anything from that response that I can use to determine if ambiguous messages are illegal. To give you 1 example: "Newbs play excalibur". Is it offensive because a particular frame is associated with a new players or is it an opinion that might hold merit, because it's 1 of 3 frames new players can choose? 

Suggestions

  1. Give profanity filter a purpose. Warframe is an 18+ game that has the profanity filter on BY DEFAULT. That means that people playing the game must be of a legal age and are capable of making decisions on the type of content they want to see. Moreover, they have to go out of their way to disable that filter. If a chat participant chooses to see profanity, why do you ban people for messages that would be censored by profanity filter? (this one has nothing to do with my case, but it still bothered me from the moment I first heard about it).
  2. Add any illegal memes/phrases, that "majority of the community knows are illegal" to kickbot's filters so players get kicked with a warning. As the support rep pointed out that meme has a specific format, and the game has the tool to filter messages of specific format. Is there any reason DE is allowing that those to be posted in chat? 
  3. Clarify your rules. According to support, the "bad" word, is disrespectful/derogatory. Unless you're using that word to describe people or have a degree on something like gender studies the chances of you drawing that connection are slim.
  4. Don't assume that everybody is aware of the intricacies of this community, and rules surrounding it. If it's not written anywhere and people are not allowed to say it there's a really good chance newer players will know about it.
  5. Give WARNINGS! This is my only offense in 6-7 months, that I've been playing the game, and I get an instant-ban for 1 AMBIGUOUS meme, about a FICTIONAL DEVICE. If this happened when I first joined the game (along with P2W first impression the game gives), I'd run from this game. By the way the odds of newbs saying it are quite high, considering that meme is used in several introductory videos.
Edited by Jitsuryoku
Formatting
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52 minutes ago, Jitsuryoku said:

 

He has some valid points...

I know the developers are hard at work making a game and the idea of spending any resources on unruly players in region seems silly, but this is just another example of half cooked projects in WF.  Why isn't there an automated message?  You made one for trade chat that tells you how long until you can post again.  Would it be that hard to do the same for these chat bans?  Don't get me wrong, I am not the type to mess around in region chat, but my sense of Justice is seriously jarred by the "punishment does not fit the crime" draconian tactics in the part of the game.  A couple Christmas' ago one of the Devs went on a ban-a-thon while the office was empty.  This person went as far to punish those people a second time for posting about it in the forums, which is dangerous territory.  The faster that control is taken away and given to a third party, the better off this community will be.

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Going to call out this post specifically by @[DE]Bear

 

Really?

You mean in a topic that gets zero input by DE Staff?

A topic that can easily have feedback buried in it?

A topic that ISN'T EVEN PINNED in this forum?

 

That kind of response only feels immensely tone deaf.

How about let's start looking at feedback and actually having a proper dialogue on what has been going on.

I even made it easy with a nicely bulleted list of areas that need to be addressed.

 

This kind of behavior and inaction is incredibly frustrating as it does nothing to help restore trust and only makes what has been said initially to be hollow.

Edited by Sean
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1 hour ago, Sean said:

You mean in a topic that gets zero input by DE Staff?

Please keep in mind that just because they have not posted lately does not mean that they aren't taking notes and acquiring your feedback. When they have something to add to the conversation they will add it.

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Just now, (XB1)Shodian said:

Please keep in mind that just because they have not posted lately does not mean that they aren't taking notes and acquiring your feedback. When they have something to add to the conversation they will add it.

 

Been watching this topic since they first put it up zero employees have responded to feedback within this topic.

If they are taking notes, then that still doesn't mean that they should choose to not respond as that only exacerbates the situation.

 

They have had several months to come with at least some form of response that at least addresses feedback.

This kind of topic NEEDS a proper dialogue to occur and the fact that they didn't even bother to pin this topic also does not help the easy-assumption of what they think of in regards to all of this.

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2 hours ago, Jitsuryoku said:

I've gotten banned recently for a meme (a single message) recently The message was a meme, that is commonly told about Nezha. My message was about equinox, I think that "bad" word was contextually appropriate (by the definition of that bad word). Just to make it clear, the message was not directed at a person, a group or really anything it was just put out there as an observation about equinox. Due to the nature of the ban, I was certain that I've offended a moderator and got banned by a moderator abusing the power they hold. 

Hi Jitsuryoku, I'm not a moderator but I can add some context to this for you.  The "meme" you are referring to contains a slur for trans people.  So it's not that you were banned for doing something that has to do with memes, it's that there was a slur in your meme, which means you used a slur.  It sounds like using a slur in any form is against the ToS, which seems pretty reasonable and mirrors the policy of many other games and websites.

That said, I'm sorry that this is how you had to learn it was a slur.  The school of hard knocks sucks, and it's not something I would wish on anybody.  Since I'm just a player, I can't do anything about DE's ban's or their policy, but I hope that my explanation helps you avoid getting banned or moderated going forward.  Take care!

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Unstar said:

Hi Jitsuryoku, I'm not a moderator but I can add some context to this for you.  The "meme" you are referring to contains a slur for trans people.  So it's not that you were banned for doing something that has to do with memes, it's that there was a slur in your meme, which means you used a slur.  It sounds like using a slur in any form is against the ToS, which seems pretty reasonable and mirrors the policy of many other games and websites.

That said, I'm sorry that this is how you had to learn it was a slur.  The school of hard knocks sucks, and it's not something I would wish on anybody.  Since I'm just a player, I can't do anything about DE's ban's or their policy, but I hope that my explanation helps you avoid getting banned or moderated going forward.  Take care!

That's also enforcing a set of values upon the playerbase that have a solid argument against them.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Unstar said:

Hi Jitsuryoku, I'm not a moderator but I can add some context to this for you.  The "meme" you are referring to contains a slur for trans people.  So it's not that you were banned for doing something that has to do with memes, it's that there was a slur in your meme, which means you used a slur.  It sounds like using a slur in any form is against the ToS, which seems pretty reasonable and mirrors the policy of many other games and websites.

That said, I'm sorry that this is how you had to learn it was a slur.  The school of hard knocks sucks, and it's not something I would wish on anybody.  Since I'm just a player, I can't do anything about DE's ban's or their policy, but I hope that my explanation helps you avoid getting banned or moderated going forward.  Take care!

 

Just a heads up, "trap" is a slur to some not all within that same or similar communities.

Varying on the person and their background/history, people can see it to be a positive (even when describing themselves).

 

The fact that it can be insta-bannable regardless of context only tries to turn it into a 100% negative since that is what people will begin to think of it as.

I will bet you that the majority of people who have used it within warframe and have gotten banned, never even heard of it prior to warframe.

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