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[DE]Rebecca

Chat Moderation Changes and Additions Report!

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Why is your kickbot programmed to emulate hurt feelings?

You write a single word in the whole phrase in caps, it deletes the whole thing and directly insults you.

You respond to it, it immediately suspends you from all channels.

Edited by LABAL
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There's still no way to know how long you get banned for. It would REALLY help if instead of simply saying "Your access to in-game chat has been suspended" it said "Your access to in-game chat has been suspended for 1 week for the following reason: blank."

This would clear up TONS of confusion and hugely benefit naive people who haven't figured out the rules yet. For example, chat says 'no profanity' which clearly isn't a real rule since you can basically drop as many full f-bombs as you want. If you say "F U" (verbatim) to nobody in particular, however, you get banned.  

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Also, PLEASE give mods their purpletext back. Making them have to give warnings doesn't really do much when their warnings are drowned out by the rest of chat and virtually impossible to see. At least give them a [MOD] in front of their names or something so new players are sure to notice and take them seriously. 

Edited by (XB1)Erudite God
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2 hours ago, LABAL said:

Why is your kickbot programmed to emulate hurt feelings?

You write a single word in the whole phrase in caps, it deletes the whole thing and directly insults you.

You respond to it, it immediately suspends you from all channels.

What did Kickbot say to you? What did you say to it?

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This is a step in the right direction but it all seems pretty vague and not substantial enough, (in my opinion.) No concrete action taken towards problematic moderators, and no changes to the Kickbot's behaviour and filter.

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31 minutes ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

freedom of speech must always take precedence

No one's freedom of speech is violated in chat.

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10 hours ago, Oranji said:

Easier fix.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

d3XFqsP.png


You're welcome. 👍

True, I had region chat turned on for like a minute to say merry christmas then left again.

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16 hours ago, notbydesign said:

It seems you're unfamiliar with the concept of "context."

So was the kickbot/moderators. It seems that's no longer the case, not that I'm gunna test it...

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2 hours ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

freedom of speech must always take precedence

The problem is people abuse the freedom of speech and take it for granted as a license to be an uncultured swine. 

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1 hour ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

No one's freedom of speech is violated in chat.

Only if you follow the logic of "No speech = no problem"
Because the censorship is rather strict.


Anyway, what's the point of censoring people if anyone can mute them manually at any time in exactly two clicks, even the spam?
I mean, aside from the outright illegal stuff like scams and attempts at trading IRL stuff.
If you're just rude to someone, do you really need any more punishment than other people thinking you're a jerk and refusing to talk to you?
Are the broad range suspensions really necessary?

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18 minutes ago, LABAL said:

Only if you follow the logic of "No speech = no problem"

More like actually knowing what free speech means.  DE is no more obligated to host speech they find objectionable than you or I in our own respective homes.  If I throw someone out of my house for speech that I don't like, I have not violated their free speech rights.  It's the same for DE and their chat service.

That said, you have the ability to say what you want.  It's just that you have to face the consequences that come with using your speech.  Free speech does not guarantee freedom from social consequences.

21 minutes ago, LABAL said:

Anyway, what's the point of censoring people if anyone can mute them manually at any time in exactly two clicks, even the spam?

Because that places the onus on the wrong people.  Why should it be everyone else's responsibility to filter out objectionable content instead of the person posting?  (And, BTW, the person posting the content that goes against the rules of chat is violating rules they agreed to when they signed in.)

 

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I mean I'm a long time gamer and by now I know the moment I make a account whether its on a forums for anime/video game topics or to play a game.

I agree to the ToS and EULA that we pretty much fall under their purview and follow their rules. all this talk of freedom of speech is pointless.

I once had a discussion with someone about it. Forums and chatrooms are not a democracy its pretty much a dictatorship where DE can either do whatever they feel they need to do or be nice enough to try and meet our demands. They have no true obligations to meet our demands they just doing it to be a better studio and work with us to create a community. All they have to do is follow the rules they set.

imo DE is doing more than enough and at this point all we can really do is trust in them to deal with abusive moderators and we just report those abuses and just play the game now.

Edited by (XB1)Dex Xean
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Speaking of chat...  some thoughts after playing as new player recently.

 

There NEEDS to be a New Player chat channel that is visible both in and out of mission similar to Council chat.  Sometimes new player get stuck in a mission and need help but no way to ask because they're soloing or everyone else in mission is also new. 

Recruit, Trade and Region chat should be default to off for new player.  Clans/Mission recruiting for noob levels can be done in Newbie chat. At MR 2, player should get an inbox message explaining how to turn chat on/off.

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14 minutes ago, ssh83 said:

Recruit, Trade and Region chat should be default to off for new player.  Clans/Mission recruiting for noob levels can be done in Newbie chat. At MR 2, player should get an inbox message explaining how to turn chat on/off.

Trade especially, as that's how many of the Corpus in trade chat take advantage of newer players as they tend to overprice stuff they sell (like Rivens for example), and will rip them off as they don't know what they have.

 

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So when are you going to get rid of the terrible mods and fix the KickBot? Because this all means absolutely nothing if you don't.

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4 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

More like actually knowing what free speech means.  DE is no more obligated to host speech they find objectionable than you or I in our own respective homes.  If I throw someone out of my house for speech that I don't like, I have not violated their free speech rights.  It's the same for DE and their chat service.

That said, you have the ability to say what you want.  It's just that you have to face the consequences that come with using your speech.  Free speech does not guarantee freedom from social consequences.

By that same logic let's outright EXILE everyone we don't agree with. I mean, the logic is exactly the same, it's just that the scale is different. It's not just "social repercussions" when a person is prevented from speaking further. But I get it. They can outright refuse the service if something you said is not to their liking. They can do that, that's not even a question. It's even practical to a point. The real question is: Is it necessary?
The action is taken immediately, without giving the offending party the opportunity to continue in such manner, but also preventing them from explaining themselves and possibly sharing the crucial information that could completely flip our understanding of the previous statement. While it prevents the potential chain reactions, the practice essentially equates a person who just momentary lost their composure due to immense frustration, or even a person who accidentally triggered a word combination deemed offensive in completely different context, to a repeat offender who has nothing better to do other than harass people for no apparent reason.

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6 minutes ago, LABAL said:

It's not just "social repercussions" when a person is prevented from speaking further.

Except in this case, it is.  Chatting on DE's servers is a privilege that can be revoked when people decide not to follow the rules.

7 minutes ago, LABAL said:

The real question is: Is it necessary?

DE feels that it is.  We spill a lot of virtual ink obsessing over the people who get removed from chat, but we rarely ever talk about the people who don't feel comfortable in a chat that has slurs, lewdness, rudeness, and boorish behavior.  In effect, DE would be excluding those people by not removing people that use slurs or adhere to boorish behavior.

10 minutes ago, LABAL said:

While it prevents the potential chain reactions, the practice essentially equates a person who just momentary lost their composure due to immense frustration, or even a person who accidentally triggered a word combination deemed offensive in completely different context, to a repeat offender who has nothing better to do other than harass people for no apparent reason.

Um, no.  Repeat offenders are just that, people who offend and repeatedly do so.

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22 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

82% of moderation action came from Kickbot

Citation needed on how many of those autokicks are from... dubiously crafted rules by chat mods the community by and large considers toxic and proud of angering the community by having the bot kick things like asking after how vauban's traps work as the easiest to think of example.) Til you give that statistic this 'here le'ts pat ourselves on the back for going 'working as intended' autokicks from bots? This isn't enough.

22 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

much of our manual kicks and bans (actioned on by volunteers and staff), are the result of users trying to circumvent KickBot by using reordered or changed characters in an effort to evade the filter, and the rest of the kicks and bans are for inappropriate topics

See my above complaint.

22 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

, you can see why we need to Moderate chat in the first place and what type of stuff we're focusing on.

Yes because we're all apparently scum that deserves chat mods who actively hate and despise us. at least acknowledge the problematic mods (it would get this post deleted to name names but one had to rename for fairly obvious reasons with the rename being a transparent truncation.) Please. I'm not saying there aren't people who are.... let's say less than kosher in how they behave, and they should totally be punished accordingly. However this whole post looks like you're going 'hey the rules set up by people bragging that nothing will ever be done to them because they have your blessing to act as they please are working as we want them to, there are no problems here.'

 

So... Until you acknowledge these things as well as make public fixes to how the kickbot functions rather than going 'YEP working as intended the userbase is filth that must be tightly corralled' I'm going to tell newbies to stay away from chat at all costs.

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I... just feel overwhelmingly disapponted. I'm not sure what I expected since drumming the problem actors of the past out on rails would feel overly vindictive when all that really is desired at least on my part is 'these people acted wrongly in the past and are now nolonger part of our volunteers' 

 

I want information on what is going to be done so that I can feel safe letting newbies on chat. As is, This whole process feels like it's a lot of family and friends and neopetism that still hasn't been addressed nor will it ever be addressed. And god help you if you actually dare talk about it here because you will have your post wiped with a banal 'not on topic/witch hunting.'

 

I hate feeling like this whole post is trying to make the whole thing seem like i't's already resolved and this is just a banal stat sheet look at the matter.

 

Maybe i'm just the one paranoid? I'm sure there will be many that say I am. They may even be right.

Edited by MarrikBroom
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1 hour ago, MarrikBroom said:

I hate feeling like this whole post is trying to make the whole thing seem like i't's already resolved and this is just a banal stat sheet look at the matter.

While this is a step in the right direction, this issue is far from resolved.

1 hour ago, MarrikBroom said:

Maybe i'm just the one paranoid? I'm sure there will be many that say I am. They may even be right.

You're not.

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50 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

While this is a step in the right direction, this issue is far from resolved.

You're not.

Le'ts keep that one in mind, this is a step in the right direction. Stats are inherently good. I am just concerned this is the fabled 'part 2' tht we've been waiting on.

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That people are actually in here saying they don't know why it is needed is astounding. Did you even read?

"I love little girls"
"No I beat my wife"
"There is only one gender, male, females are property."
"Feminists need capital punishment for living"

There is something wrong with you if you think any of these are acceptable as "humour". None of these comments damage "free speech" by being removed, if anything they help it by not leading the sheep out there down a path that thinks this type of thing is funny. Your mothers, auntys, wives, sisters, daughters certainly would not enjoy knowing you look upon them like this, even for "fun". Men don't think that type of crap is "fun", little boys do. Grow up.

Baiting other players to violate guidelines.

This is truely just childish on every level and could completely ruin new player experience if they say the wrong thing that catches them in one of those questionable context bans. Bans need to be longer for baiters.

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Thank you all at DE. I know that people will do everything in their power to be a nuisance and then backpedal once punished or accused, and even here they will do everything in their power to justify something they know in their hearts is malicious and problematic. This just makes it easier to look at chat.

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So far all i've seen from DE is words, not facts

- the moderators that started all this debate are still there, no disciplinary action was reported

- an intimate friend of said moderators become part of the actual staff with the duty of monitoring abovementioned problems

- ongoning policy of obfuscation on the issue in order to wait for the customers to forget about this mess

Congrants DE on being muleheaded

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