Chat Moderation Changes and Additions Report!

[Sean]

27 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Nono not that one, though the appropriate name change may be 'enough' combined with the fact the one I am thinking of had a huge off site blowup that's been archived. So considering this happened? I want to believe they did a lot of house cleaning they would rather not drag out in open because it's a case 'what does this accomplish?'

 

So bestto move forward.

 

Ooooh... I see now.

Good progress then there and it's at least a step on moving forward.

 

Edit:

Just saw their twitter-rant... just damn. That is some absolutely toxic behavior.

[Almagnus1]

4 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

Speaking of mods? given I'm the guy who had his post removed... a lot during one of the last streams of last year thread because 'well eventually someone's going to have to speak up instead of just silently remove.' I'm glad for the mod attention and 'pruning rather than removing' attitude in this thread. 

Speaking of post removal, I'd really appreciate it if the forums mods were forced to provide the players with a logged message on why their post was removed when one of their posts gets removed.  There's been enough weirdness on the forums (and I'm generally blonde enough) that sometimes I wonder if a post just vanished because I failed to post it, or didn't post it so I'll post it again - which is a clear violation of the forum rules even though I'm being an airhead that's not being helped by silent moderation.

Part of this entire issue revolves around silent moderation, as the more they can explain about why you shouldn't do that, it will help clue in some of the players that a particular behavior isn't right.  Sometimes you can't drop hints, but rather have to smack a person with a hint a couple of times hand it to them and say "here's a hint" before they finally get it.  And (usually) once they do, most will adjust accordingly.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

On 2019-02-02 at 12:30 PM, Letter13 said:

The rules had been (and still are) an extension of the Forum's code of conduct, along with portions of the Terms of Use Agreement and EULA (they were however more recently posted in a manner that clarifies them for people who seemed unable to be bothered with reading the forum guidelines, Terms of Use and EULA). The thing we won't post is a blacklist of the words that will trigger kickbot--this is because giving users a template of all the things that trigger kickbot will also give them the template of how to write derogatory slurs, vulgarities and rule-violating comments while evading kickbot.

I used to have an irc script that did much the same as the Kickbot, and I fully agree with the policy of not giving out the actual list. That said, I used to regularly review and adjust the list as needed. 

Japan, Niger/Nigeria, "is using equinox still the best option to trap animals on the plains still the best way to do those rivens".... Those don't violate the eula. And I think that the last time I read the eula/guidelines the specific attention was to conduct on the website. 

As for the rule-breaking template... The trolls already have it and use it to bait newbs into getting banned for innocuous comments. That much was obvious in the images included on the first post. 

 

Also what we really need is educational warnings like what the forum mods give to us when we do something they think is wrong. An explanation of what we did, allows us to adjust to better fit with what's considered acceptable conduct. An explanation of the expected duration of the punishment would also be good. We have seen quite a few examples where a rubberstamped "that's not an acceptable topic of conversation for our space ninja game" is handed out as a warning with no additional information being given. To me that's a clear example of a Mod trying to adhere to the letter of the law and refusing to adhere to the spirit. 

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

19 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

Frankly this is where you and I disagree in the strongest way possible. You approach this as 'we give them any sign or hint of what is wrong and they will find ways around it.' I see your reasoning as 'we won't actually tell you the things that will get you in trouble so we can effectively make anything up we like.'

As I have said before. An issue of trust and I see little reason to trust when those in charge of oversight have that mentality about those of us that are dependent on their judgement.

Well they shouldn't list every single slur and whatever that triggers the kickbot, but just specify "no slurs of any kind, even if you don't find them offensive."

There's a lot of middle ground between listing each bad word and the vagueness we have now.

[tarfeef101]

On 2019-02-01 at 10:27 AM, Almagnus1 said:

Let me ask you this, why should I care what the gender is of any tenno?

Touching back to the post, part of the issues from chat moderation comes from understanding that Warframe is a global F2P game, and certain cultures simply do not mix well.  What may be acceptable in one culture can be extremely offensive in another culture.  That means us tenno need to be a bit thicker skinned when it comes to comments as we don't know what the cultural background of any given player is.

Another issue in play is that there's maturity level of people.  While time may help with this one, I suspect a lot of the awkward male/female interactions come from lack of maturity and/or lack of experience interacting with the particular gender (perhaps mutually in some scenarios).  There's also cultural side to the interaction between genders, as some cultures are notoriously misogynistic in their view of women.

Also, why do you assume 50% female population?  Do you have access to the Warframe demographic data?  If so, can you give me a link?

lol nothing you said matters. except the first sentence. you shouldn't care about gender...

but people do, and specifically make women uncomfortable. they shouldn't. that's it. it's that simple

[Sean]

13 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

Please don't take this the wrong way but I know this thread was a fair bit longer than it was, enough that I had a post on page six. Understandably some pruning is nessicary but at the same time when we're voicing concerns over  silent moderation it strikes me as funny that sort of thing strikes. Guys you seriously are not helping with the whole trust between moderation staff/volunteers and players by continuing to do this unannounced. Doesn't need to be anything particularly strongly worded just a sort of 'hey things are getting heated we're trying to keep the pot from boiling over' sort of thing?

I dunno Ijust know it appears more than a touch tone deaf to respond to player concerns over transparency and giving informative reasoning behind actions by giving the silent treatment. IT's a bit like rearranging the furniture while someone's back is turned.

 

There's always been this strange disconnect, where a sizable chunk of the forum staff here are almost unwilling to even attempt to see it from the rest of the community's side of things. If, for example, someone makes a post requesting that a moderator inform them of their reasoning behind a deletion (considering that most deletions are now done in the shadows), you'd expect that aforementioned moderator would simply private message that individual, but for whatever reason, the forum staff choose not to even interact.

Now maybe that is something that they are told to do by some of the employees... I've had some... let's call it "interesting" interactions with a few that I could see being involved in something like that. Sometimes it even seems to be a form of "baiting", to get users to repeatedly "break" Rule #6 in the guidelines in order to provide a rationale for giving a harsher punishment.

Quote

6) COMPLAINTS – We will not tolerate inappropriate, aggressive, or hostile complaints posted on the Forums. If you have a complaint about a player, report the issue. If you have a complaint about how your behavior on the forums has been moderated, send the Moderator a private message. They will do what they can to sort out any issues. 

If a person does not know who deleted or moderated their posts, then they cannot send that user a private message. A person who is repeatedly trying to get an answer then may keep posting about it (since "send[ing] the Moderator a private message" is not an option), and for whatever reason, their posts may end up being repeatedly deleted. Again: all without receiving a word from the moderator in question. On just about any other community, the person who performed the deletions would privately inform the individual that they even DID the deletions at all and the reason they had. That is just something of common decency and hiding in the dark only looks shady. If moderators are actively told to not engage, then that should be a red flag to any of the moderators who do truly want to help that may even often feel like their hands are being tied in what they can and cannot answer.

 

Now If the person whose posts are being deleted actually does find out who did it after pm'ing a separate moderator or two, there's even cases where the one who actually performed the action opts to actively ignore the private message. That moderator then would be breaking Rule #6 and honestly should be penalized for it. Not only is that the wrong thing to do, but it makes all moderators look bad and only further erodes trust.

 

What needs to happen is that the DE staff need to begin being part of this discussion.

All we have seen so far is them "talking at" the community. What needs to happen is they need to "talk with", this is a DISCUSSION forum after all, otherwise, why even keep this topic open?

[Almagnus1]

5 hours ago, MarrikBroom said:

I dunno Ijust know it appears more than a touch tone deaf to respond to player concerns over transparency and giving informative reasoning behind actions by giving the silent treatment. IT's a bit like rearranging the furniture while someone's back is turned.

As long as you remember to check for a seat before you try to sit in one, what's the problem? =P

[notlamprey]

10 hours ago, Sean said:

All we have seen so far is them "talking at" the community. What needs to happen is they need to "talk with", this is a DISCUSSION forum after all, otherwise, why even keep this topic open?

It does indeed seem like there's a distinct "Us vs. Them" smell in the air, and it isn't new.

For whatever reason, staff and volunteers aren't making what I would consider to be a satisfactory effort investing in any long-term healthy relationship between themselves and the rest of the game community. Most interactions consist of brusque guideline recitation or standard talking points, and that sort of communication tends only to generate a tribalistic divide between those who agree with the statements (as presented) and those who don't.

I'm not entirely unsympathetic; the current online market space is dominated by extreme pressure to project a constant barrage of happy-go-lucky noise about your product or service. Everyone on staff is feeling a strong pull to focus their effort on other platforms, where visibility is much greater and where they feel interactions are more likely to be purely positive. One downside is that these forums have suffered a relative dearth of attention, and we've been seeing the results for some time now.

Expanding the volunteer moderation program is probably not a good answer, at least not while community concerns about guidelines and moderator conduct are at their current levels. The closed nature of these programs makes any new additions suspect by default. From the perspective of concerned players, the risk is simply too great that any existing and unhealthy attitudes or behaviors would only propagate to new team members.

Some sort of "Communication 2.0" might be necessary at this point - a redesign of the way moderation and guidelines are discussed and enforced.

This post is already getting long, so I'll stop short of attempting a comprehensive survey of the situation and all the factors in play.

I'll close by pointing out how incredibly frustrating it is that we have little to no established foundation to discuss these topics. There's no easily accessible body of knowledge, so it feels like I have to start from scratch every time. There's no dedicated space in which to discuss this stuff, so people try to bring it up whenever/wherever they think it might be appropriate. Most of the time, it's deemed not to be appropriate and consequently shut down. So many comments are edited or deleted, and I have to resort to looking through community archives to get the true tenor of the conversation.

It's exhausting, and DE staff need to understand that this makes players feel like we are putting in the lion's share of the effort on this front. I'm not saying that's actually how things are, but instead saying that's how things feel. I bet they feel overworked and underappreciated too. Maybe that should be the starting point for more meaningful conversation.

 

[Almagnus1]

48 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Whether in a different post, its own topic, or through Private Messages here Reddit or elsewhere i would be interested in your perspective as you have a quite well worded asessment of things.

Reddit may be the answer there.

[Letter13]

Hey folks, going to chime in again.

This thread is for discussion and feedback of chat moderation changes and additions. Discussing forum moderation (i.e. removal of posts, warning points on the forums, etc) here may be perceived as off-topic posting and can result in posts being removed for not being pertinent to the topic of this thread. This is the reason why a handful of posts have been removed from this thread. Depending on the severity of the rule violation (or the frequency at which it is occurring), a verbal warning or a warning point for spamming may be issued.

Additionally, posts quoting or responding to another post that have been removed may be removed themselves, in order to clean a thread and get it back on topic (or remove quoting/repeating the post(s) in question which are not in keeping with the code of conduct). For these types of post removals we will not usually message or warn users when their post(s) are removed.

Long story short, as long as you follow the forum rules, your posts won't get removed. Please stay on topic.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

4 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

This thread is for discussion and feedback of chat moderation changes and additions. Discussing forum moderation (i.e. removal of posts, warning points on the forums, etc) here may be perceived as off-topic posting and can result in posts being removed for not being pertinent to the topic of this thread. This is the reason why a handful of posts have been removed from this thread.

It's a shame that the obvious has to be stated, but thank you for doing so.

[Letter13]

1 minute ago, MarrikBroom said:

Thank you. I realize moderating a fairly large community is taxing even with a sizeable staff pool and you have all manner of personalities involvedon all sides, but the constant pruning and deletion without anyone from the staff side really does fuel the 'us v them' mentality where the worst fears of 'staff here only act when they're forced to, and even then with the least effort required, and if they speak it's because you truely messed up because they're annoyed they must act.' Which... is unhealthy.

DE community staff actually have a very active role in our day-to-day handling of forum moderation. We very frequently run certain actions and responses by said staff in the event that we're uncertain if our response(s) or actions may not be kosher, check with staff for background info (i.e. interactions with support) to investigate issues, etc. Our moderation is built upon the "asking for permission is better than asking for forgiveness" school of thought; better to check before doing something than to do something, mess up, and ask for forgiveness.

That isn't to say that we ask permission before doing any/every moderation action; when there are clear cut rule violations occurring, we hide posts and issue warnings without consulting DE staff (all of our actions are recorded and logged, however, so should a player contact support staff with a complaint of how they've been moderated the moderation or support team can track us down and inquire as to the circumstances of the moderation actions). In the event of very minor rule violations occurring (i.e. a thread being driven off-topic) we will usually hide a handful of posts to remove the off-topic conversation, and if the off-topic conversation continues after that point we'll usually chime in and tell people 'Hey, try to keep on topic' (which is what I'm doing now more or less).

Also, if anyone has any questions about forum moderation, even if it's as simple as your posts being removed and you're confused as to why (specifically, that you find your post wasn't off-topic, wasn't quoting or responding to another post that was violating the rules or wasn't removed), feel free to shoot me a PM.

[Me.KayOh]

24 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Also, if anyone has any questions about forum moderation, even if it's as simple as your posts being removed and you're confused as to why (specifically, that you find your post wasn't off-topic, wasn't quoting or responding to another post that was violating the rules or wasn't removed), feel free to shoot me a PM

This should be something that is done automatically, instead of me having to pursue a moderator to find out why my posts were removed.  And I agree with what MarrikBroom says. Simply removing the posts and following up with nothing, does nothing to foster understanding, especially when the member whose posts were deleted is of the opinion that what they stated was directly related to the topic, and while it may be a volatile opinion, it was neither offensive nor off-topic nor directed at any specific person.

If you put yourself in my shoes, it surely feels like censorship based on personal bias, rather than "rule-by-rule" forum moderation and added to that, it seems like no one cares about that here.

It's quite a disappointing thing and I've sent a message to the [DE]Community thing about it, though I don't even know who reads that, or if it even works. 🤷‍♂️ 

You all seem set on continuing this trend of moderation which I highly disagree with as well. I don't see a desire to be more proactive about this. So I feel like that's the end of me participating on this forum.

By the way, this is a suggestion for a change to forum moderation. It's not chat moderation so if you find this post off-topic too, just remove it like the rest. I'll have a screenshot saved. That's not snark, but given what's recently happened, I feel compelled to take this approach.

[Almagnus1]

3 hours ago, Letter13 said:

This thread is for discussion and feedback of chat moderation changes and additions. Discussing forum moderation (i.e. removal of posts, warning points on the forums, etc) here may be perceived as off-topic posting and can result in posts being removed for not being pertinent to the topic of this thread.

Ah that makes sense.  My understanding of the thread was on moderation in general, and seeing this posted a while ago would have cleared up that misunderstanding all the sooner.

3 hours ago, Letter13 said:

Also, if anyone has any questions about forum moderation, even if it's as simple as your posts being removed and you're confused as to why (specifically, that you find your post wasn't off-topic, wasn't quoting or responding to another post that was violating the rules or wasn't removed), feel free to shoot me a PM.

Maybe you could start up an official discussion thread on that as it's an off topic, yet related, issue?

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

33 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

So on the subject of chat moderation:

ANy non-PC folk able to chime in? I'll admit a bit of pc-centricness to my tone and i have heard horror stories about ps4 so... Yea. Guys?

Other than the occasional trade chat and some alliance banter, I don't chat much. I blocked region chat a long time ago due to how region is.

[(PSN)Amndell]

My thing is this if ps4 region so bad why is no changes been made or new tenno being selected for the volunteer postion. I mean come on on ps4 most mods are not even online active like they should be. I feel like other tennos are not getting the proper support, nor given a chance to evolve and become more useful in the community of warframe. I mean come on its been how long since they did gotl or mod change. It look not so good when a new tenno enter the game and is looking at complete disaster of a chat room that suppose to have human mods that there to keep it clean of toxicness. How on earth can anyone get help if they are seeing unmointor behavior and inappropriate content that suppose to be remove. I guess what im getting at is that there needs to be a greater change and new system put in place and rule and logs which i think is in effect now but never the less i think DE should remove inactive mods that are not doing anything on warframe console like xbox or ps4. And same for the guides. Its ok that u on discord but you guys need to be active on console helping new players. That the buttom line. Work as a team so that the chat room and community doesnt lose hope in the game support feild.

[MagPrime]

On 2019-02-06 at 12:49 PM, MarrikBroom said:

So on the subjectof chat moderation:

ANy non-PC folk able to chime in? I'll admit a bit of pc-centricness to my tone and i have heard horror stories about ps4 so... Yea. Guys?

I have a PS4 account, am I able to chime in?

I've seen some pretty messed up stuff in PS4 Region chat, it really needs more moderation.  Last time I logged in, I saw someone comment "raip vs love" followed by "raip is love" and that's pretty tame for some of the things I've seen there.

[Rhekemi]

 

On 2019-01-31 at 10:20 AM, ssh83 said:

Speaking of chat...  some thoughts after playing as new player recently. There NEEDS to be a New Player chat channel that is visible both in and out of mission similar to Council chat.  Sometimes new player get stuck in a mission and need help but no way to ask because they're soloing or everyone else in mission is also new. 

Recruit, Trade and Region chat should be default to off for new player.  Clans/Mission recruiting for noob levels can be done in Newbie chat. At MR 2, player should get an inbox message explaining how to turn chat on/off.

5

It's been suggested, but it never seems to happen:

With a sample size of 581 people:

I never did make a polished version of the second link, but it's whatever. 

I don't hold out hope of it becoming a thing, but I still think it would be nice.

On 2019-02-01 at 2:13 PM, MarrikBroom said:

Given many folk are either in middle school or thereabouts so don't have the sort of life experiance in the first place, are socially inept (like myself,) or are shutins due to disability or other reasons (also myself,) causing a lack of social graces? That is entirely possible.

Ideas would be welcome on how to address this within the community so folk can learn rather than it feel worse... without enabling the more skeevy sketchy behavior out there.

4

There is no way to do that. There's no mechanic in the system to make an allowance for such instances. It isn't DE's responsibility, nor should it be.

But we do have humans who operate levers within the system. As humans, individuals who aren't being perverts and are socially inept, challenged, or inexperienced, can still make their case to a moderator or support (who are also humans) and explain a little about themselves.

If the explanation is legit, it's possible the ban can be lifted, and if not, at least they can talk to a human being about the mistake and learn from it.

The individuals can also speak to people that know them (either as friends online or in real life) to better understand the situation. No matter how socially inept you are, you know someone you can talk to in most cases.

If you have absolutely no one to talk to, make a thread on r/warframe and explain what happened. 

Outside of common humanity and community, there's no mechanic within the system to differentiate between an inappropriate pervert and a socially inexperienced/inept individual.

Regarding the first post, thanks, Rebecca. It is progress, but there are several well-reasoned posts here concerning the progress that still needs to be made.

I do not use Region chat. I haven't removed the tab because I still pop in there once in a blue moon. But I no longer help other players/answer questions, which I did at one time (briefly) before I tired of Region's general flavor. (Pretty sure I blocked one cat who took issue with me helping another member instead of letting them Google it/use the Wiki. Region was for chatting and sh**-chatting. Not helping new players.)

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

"No profanity" is one of the rules we have. Seems simple enough, right? However, you can drop as many f-bombs as you want without any threat of getting kicked, unless you follow it immediately with a "you." Even "f u" to nobody is an instant ban. But if you use the f-bomb as just an expletive/adjective, it's A-OK, and even the chat mods don't do anything about it.

Also, when you say certain things, words that are way less severe than the f-word, kickbot nabs you without any notification or anything. Chat just sorta stops. What's the deal with that? Sometimes it warns you, sometimes it tells you that you're kicked, sometimes it doesn't. Why not make it just behave the same way every time? There'd be way less confusion, and way less complaints in the forums and tickets to DE asking for clarification if we just had a more understandable system.

I feel like it wouldn't really be that hard to make things a little more uniform. 

[WhiteMarker]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite God said:

"No profanity" is one of the rules we have. Seems simple enough, right? However, you can drop as many f-bombs as you want without any threat of getting kicked, unless you follow it immediately with a "you." Even "f u" to nobody is an instant ban. But if you use the f-bomb as just an expletive/adjective, it's A-OK, and even the chat mods don't do anything about it.

There is no inconsistency in this.

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite God said:

Also, when you say certain things, words that are way less severe than the f-word, kickbot nabs you without any notification or anything. Chat just sorta stops. What's the deal with that? Sometimes it warns you, sometimes it tells you that you're kicked, sometimes it doesn't. Why not make it just behave the same way every time? There'd be way less confusion, and way less complaints in the forums and tickets to DE asking for clarification if we just had a more understandable system.

You might want to follow the news.
DE is working on a new system for the chat moderation. You will receive a message telling you the reason for the ban. (probably not the specific word, but the reason)

And actually, the rules are easy to understand:
Don't insult other people. A simple "#*!%" doesn't insult someone. If you use it together with the word "you", then you clearly want to insult another person. (This is the case for "f u" aswell. And no, there is no "f u" to nobody, as you said it before, because the "you" implies a direction to another person)

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

On 2019-02-11 at 1:04 AM, WhiteMarker said:

There is no inconsistency in this.

What do you mean by this? The rule is "no profanity" but its highly contextual. Some profanities are okay all the time, some are okay sometimes, and some are okay never. The only way to figure this out is trial and error.

"You will receive a message telling you the reason of the ban." This is supposed to already happen, according to tickets from DE about chat. I hope they finally start doing it.

"Actually the rules are easy to understand: Don't insult people."
Yes, that's the "be respectful" rule, which is currently off-topic. We are discussing the "no profanity" rule right now. 

[Kaizal]

Very quick intro: I'll try to be as concise and to the point as I possibly can.

Quick disclaimer: Sorry for the salt, I tried to keep it to a minimum.

First off, why I dislike an automated auto-kicking system:

1a) Players don't ever get warned on what is the unacceptable terminology they cant use. They get automatically kicked if what they said, is considered inappropriate by some AI.

2a) We don't ever get to know which words or topics are unacceptable to use in the chat, which means 2 things:

-Players get completely blindsided when saying something that is considered inappropriate.

-Players cant complain if they think the use of a specific word, isn't worthy of getting suspended.

-Kickbot doesn't tell you which part of what you said is unacceptable, so you sometimes cant guess which part of the message is considered suspension worthy.

3a)Because of how this game works, getting suspended from Recruit chat, Trading chat, and even private chat, for anyone that cares about efficiency this is basically a temporary ban. You can play but you cant do anything specific(wich anyone above mr 4 is usually doing).

 

 

Now how I think it could be improved upon:

Make a list that every player can access on the internet(it doesn't have to be ingame), wich lists every single word that is suspension worthy. Reasons why this is so important:

1b) Players get blindsided at most one time, and that's it, Simply make kickbot include in the message, "when sending messages in the future, considering reading this list of suspension worthy words.". Or even if you don't, probably a player well tell them about the list anyways, or just make it one of the default messages you get when entering region chat.

^^ Doing that cant be hard from a coding perspective at all, so its not like it requires a lot of development being made, also its not costy.

2b) If its ridiculous for a word to be suspension worthy, the community can see it, and the community will complain. I get that in a game the developers have the ultimate say. However the way things are now, the community can't even complain, because they don't know what to complain about, because there is no real official site where you can know, what can you say, and what you can't. I get that we don't have a vote, but we at least should have a say.

3b)  Please, for the love of god(which I don't believe in), make an in-game timer for when you are suspended, you guys already have a timer, I don't get why its not there for the player to see, there is literally no downsides to that(unless you want to spread fear in the chat, and make everyone tiptoe in your chat, for no other reason than making people be more polite.Id like to believe DE doesn't intend for this).

 

Now If you want to be really awesome, and make me like the devteam even more than I already do:

Auto-kicking shouldn't even be a thing, there aren't that many people in the chat at the time, you can make the bot flag the comment, and later a moderator can review it, literally no reason why the punishment needs to be so instantaneous.

Make an option, where the player can choose to have a delay when sending messages, in exchange for kickbot to review before posting it, for example: if you typed a message with the N word, with the first option(the current and only one). It sends the message, and suspends you after a second or so.

The new option I'm proposing: you send the message, it reviews it before posting it, if it has offensive language, it just deletes the message and never sends it, with no suspension, just a warning, maybe implement a strike system here if you want, but I don't know why it should be needed, as no one that can get offended by the message will ever read it.

This makes it so the player can pick the delay if he wants to be able to write in a more relaxed manner, which I would definitely do, and I think a lot of people would.

Situational unnecessary reading(if you're a dev, you should probably skip that part):

Right now im always stressed out about if what I'm writing can get me suspended. Literally I typed mierda, which is S#&$ in Spanish, in the south American server, with my language set to Spanish, and got suspended. I don't know how that can be offensive, I wasn't directing it to anybody, it was some sort of exclamation, just as when people say "Holy S#&$" in English.

I'm more careful when writing in Warframe chat than talking to a 3 year old, which is pathetic for an M rated game. Literally im at a stage in the game, that when i'm in region chat, most of what I do is just helping noobs out, and its a really fun and enjoyable experience for me, Its really sad that it becomes stressful just because someone decided that I should be scared of writing my own words, when literally only one time, 2 players were offended because of something I said, and we talked it out, like mature people in an M rated game.

I've been chat suspended far more times than 1, from a patronizing auto-kickbot, it literally feels like the devs underestimate us, like we are some sort of oversensitive 2 year olds, when my personal experience tells me that mostly people are mature(well except poor people buying rivens, they sometimes whine and insult).

Such an oversensitive system has no need to be in place, because there are only 2 possible scenarios, and you lose in both:

first scenario: your community is toxic, you implement this, a huge part of the community leaves. Some will like the game more because of it, but the largest portion is nowhere to be found

second scenario:your community is largely not toxic, and mature: This is just unnecessary in this case, you can already mute people, so why have this stupid layer, wich just renders everyone unable to loosen up in recruit chat, WICH IS THE WHOLE POINT OF REGION CHAT, IS LITERALLY SOMEWHERE YOU BURN TIME.

After a few days I will remove the saltiest parts, maybe.

[MagPrime]

 

28 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

1a) Players don't ever get warned on what is the unacceptable terminology they cant use. They get automatically kicked if what they said, is considered inappropriate by some AI.

DE has stated they don't want to provide a list because that will give trolls a tool to create workarounds and bypass the system.

28 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

2a) We don't ever get to know which words or topics are unacceptable to use in the chat, which means 2 things:

-Players get completely blindsided when saying something that is considered inappropriate.

-Players cant complain if they think the use of a specific word, isn't worthy of getting suspended.

-Kickbot doesn't tell you which part of what you said is unacceptable, so you sometimes cant guess which part of the message is considered suspension worthy.

DE encourages players to use common sense regarding appropriate topics in Region chat.  For the most part, you'll never go wrong if you stick to Warframe related topics.

28 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

3a)Because of how this game works, getting suspended from Recruit chat, Trading chat, and even private chat, for anyone that cares about efficiency this is basically a temporary ban. You can play but you cant do anything specific(wich anyone above mr 4 is usually doing).

Breaking the rules results in a harsh and lasting punishment to deter repeat offenses.  For the most part, this works rather well.  Besides, it's not much of a punishment if you don't learn anything from the experience.  The "nuke it from orbit" moderation style leaves a lasting impression on players, even if they aren't recipients of the ban. 

28 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

1b) Players get blindsided at most one time, and that's it, Simply make kickbot include in the message, "when sending messages in the future, considering reading this list of suspension worthy words.". Or even if you don't, probably a player well tell them about the list anyways, or just make it one of the default messages you get when entering region chat.

^^ Doing that cant be hard from a coding perspective at all, so its not like it requires a lot of development being made, also its not costy.

2b) If its ridiculous for a word to be suspension worthy, the community can see it, and the community will complain. I get that in a game the developers have the ultimate say. However the way things are now, the community can't even complain, because they don't know what to complain about, because there is no real official site where you can know, what can you say, and what you can't. I get that we don't have a vote, but we at least should have a say.

3b)  Please, for the love of god(which I don't believe in), make an in-game timer for when you are suspended, you guys already have a timer, I don't get why its not there for the player to see, there is literally no downsides to that(unless you want to spread fear in the chat, and make everyone tiptoe in your chat, for no other reason than making people be more polite.Id like to believe DE doesn't intend for this).

 

28 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

Auto-kicking shouldn't even be a thing, there aren't that many people in the chat at the time, you can make the bot flag the comment, and later a moderator can review it, literally no reason why the punishment needs to be so instantaneous.

There are several phrases that were removed due to auto kicking that are provided in the above link.  Due to that example, I fully support automated kicks and removals. 

28 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

Make an option, where the player can choose to have a delay when sending messages, in exchange for kickbot to review before posting it, for example: if you typed a message with the N word, with the first option(the current and only one). It sends the message, and suspends you after a second or so.

The new option I'm proposing: you send the message, it reviews it before posting it, if it has offensive language, it just deletes the message and never sends it, with no suspension, just a warning, maybe implement a strike system here if you want, but I don't know why it should be needed, as no one that can get offended by the message will ever read it.

This makes it so the player can pick the delay if he wants to be able to write in a more relaxed manner, which I would definitely do, and I think a lot of people would.

I like the concept but on the other hand, maybe don't talk about things that have you saying the N word in public channels?

28 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

Right now im always stressed out about if what I'm writing can get me suspended. Literally I typed mierda, which is S#&$ in Spanish, in the south American server, with my language set to Spanish, and got suspended. I don't know how that can be offensive, I wasn't directing it to anybody, it was some sort of exclamation, just as when people say "Holy S#&$" in English.

I'm more careful when writing in Warframe chat than talking to a 3 year old, which is pathetic for an M rated game. Literally im at a stage in the game, that when i'm in region chat, most of what I do is just helping noobs out, and its a really fun and enjoyable experience for me, Its really sad that it becomes stressful just because someone decided that I should be scared of writing my own words, when literally only one time, 2 players were offended because of something I said, and we talked it out, like mature people in an M rated game.

Not sure how the games rating should have any bearing on how you talk.

28 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

I've been chat suspended far more times than 1, from a patronizing auto-kickbot, it literally feels like the devs underestimate us, like we are some sort of oversensitive 2 year olds, when my personal experience tells me that mostly people are mature(well except poor people buying rivens, they sometimes whine and insult).

Maybe when you're playing but there are plenty of example in the link I provided further up that proves otherwise.  And that's just from one platform, not all 4.

28 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

first scenario: your community is toxic, you implement this, a huge part of the community leaves. Some will like the game more because of it, but the largest portion is nowhere to be found

38 million users, I don't think the kickbot is doing as much damage as you assume. And if someone leaves because they can't blast public channels with offensive content, I really don't see that as a loss to the community. 

28 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

second scenario:your community is largely not toxic, and mature: This is just unnecessary in this case, you can already mute people, so why have this stupid layer, wich just renders everyone unable to loosen up in recruit chat, WICH IS THE WHOLE POINT OF REGION CHAT, IS LITERALLY SOMEWHERE YOU BURN TIME.

The point of Region is determined by DE.  You see it as a place to burn time, others see it as a resource for information.  

Muting people is a good strategy but, as pointed out in an archived and locked thread, DE also has to deal with Canada's anti-hate speech laws, so they are forced to engage in moderation to keep their company from being fined.  (I have a feeling that if that legislation wasn't in place, moderation would be a lot more lax)

[peterc3]

51 minutes ago, Kaizal said:

I've been chat suspended far more times than 1, from a patronizing auto-kickbot, it literally feels like the devs underestimate us, like we are some sort of oversensitive 2 year olds, when my personal experience tells me that mostly people are mature(well except poor people buying rivens, they sometimes whine and insult).

What could possibly give DE the impression that you are an oversensitive toddler?

One of the quickest pivots from claimed maturity to demonstrated immaturity I think I've seen in one of these Concerned Citizen/The N-word is a matter of opinion type posts. Kudos.

24 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

DE also has to deal with Canada's anti-hate speech laws, so they are forced to engage in moderation to keep their company from being fined.  (I have a feeling that if that legislation wasn't in place, moderation would be a lot more lax)

Anything beyond non-DE people claiming this applies at all to DE's chat? It's usually people taking a vague understanding of other countries' laws and making sweeping assumptions.

[MagPrime]

3 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Anything beyond non-DE people claiming this applies at all to DE's chat? It's usually people taking a vague understanding of other country's laws and making sweeping assumptions.

I haven't seen anything official from DE or their volunteers but I haven't gone digging for it either.