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[DE]Rebecca

Chat Moderation Changes and Additions Report!

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8 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

I'll be dropping in and posting some of the weekly reports I get from our professional Mod team so everyone knows what we're tracking and why in terms of moderation and noteable trends. It should be very clear from these reports the entirety of why we bother Moderating at all, and what our priorities are since making systemic changes. Luckily for a game as large as ours our Problematic User list is quite short, but it allows us a consolidated area to keep our in-game Region chat focused on our Space Ninja game. Nezha is a trap is pure spam - kickbot kicks spam as per the 'no spamming' rule.
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I dont understand completely what this report is saying. Is this an example of a specific user, like an internal profile of a "problematic user's" online behavior? Some of these entries seem very specific that wouldnt make sense as a generalization.

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12 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

I'll be dropping in and posting some of the weekly reports I get from our professional Mod team so everyone knows what we're tracking and why in terms of moderation and noteable trends. It should be very clear from these reports the entirety of why we bother Moderating at all, and what our priorities are since making systemic changes. Luckily for a game as large as ours our Problematic User list is quite short, but it allows us a consolidated area to keep our in-game Region chat focused on our Space Ninja game. Nezha is a trap is pure spam - kickbot kicks spam as per the 'no spamming' rule.
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...Wouldn't making this public just let those offenders know how to side-step the moderation? Like, now they could go from Nezha is a trap to "Nezha es un capcana" (yeah, my mexican is terrible) cause they know you obliterate the former. Or they could now start asking about "the Jewels".

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1 minute ago, Gabbynaru said:

...Wouldn't making this public just let those offenders know how to side-step the moderation? Like, now they could go from Nezha is a trap to "Nezha es un capcana" (yeah, my mexican is terrible) cause they know you obliterate the former. Or they could now start asking about "the Jewels".

Yup, I can obfuscate a bit next report.

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22 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

I'll be dropping in and posting some of the weekly reports I get from our professional Mod team so everyone knows what we're tracking and why in terms of moderation and noteable trends. It should be very clear from these reports the entirety of why we bother Moderating at all, and what our priorities are since making systemic changes. Luckily for a game as large as ours our Problematic User list is quite short, but it allows us a consolidated area to keep our in-game Region chat focused on our Space Ninja game. Nezha is a trap is pure spam - kickbot kicks spam as per the 'no spamming' rule.
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It's good to see another update!

But, after a month, I'm still unsure what the "Problematic Users" part of your image is trying to represent. Is that just a small sample of a larger list of individual offenders or something? (I mean, I would've thought there are so many offenders in the first place that such a small sample doesn't properly portray the situation.)

 

(Below: my post in this thread from Reb's update a month ago)

On 2019-01-30 at 3:33 PM, SortaRandom said:

moderationexample.jpg.87821cc01e387f6129

Maybe I'm just blind, but I'm not sure I understand this infographic? I'm assuming the top bit (with the grey bars of different lengths) is a histogram showing the most common reasons for banning, but "I LOVE LITTLE GIRLS", "No i beat my wife", "There is only one gender, male, females are property", etc. are oddly specific sentences to display here.
I mean, are these exact phrases that players have been copy+pasting or something? Is each one simply "paraphrasing" for a variety of similar phrases that people have been (rightfully) chatbanned for saying? Am I completely off the mark?

I feel like I'm missing something obvious, but could we have a bit more explanation on what the infographic means?

Edited by SortaRandom
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Great, banning people who actually break the rules is cool - but what we really want is better ways to deal with getting banned unfairly or accidentally by the bot. 

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28 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

I'll be dropping in and posting some of the weekly reports I get from our professional Mod team so everyone knows what we're tracking and why in terms of moderation and noteable trends. It should be very clear from these reports the entirety of why we bother Moderating at all, and what our priorities are since making systemic changes. Luckily for a game as large as ours our Problematic User list is quite short, but it allows us a consolidated area to keep our in-game Region chat focused on our Space Ninja game. Nezha is a trap is pure spam - kickbot kicks spam as per the 'no spamming' rule.
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anti feminist discussion? care to elaborate?

 

also I am still waiting on some clarification regarding 

 

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2 minutes ago, Helch0rn said:

anti feminist discussion? care to elaborate?

 

also I am still waiting on some clarification regarding 

 

We had logging before, every action.

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51 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

I'll be dropping in and posting some of the weekly reports I get from our professional Mod team so everyone knows what we're tracking and why in terms of moderation and noteable trends. It should be very clear from these reports the entirety of why we bother Moderating at all, and what our priorities are since making systemic changes. Luckily for a game as large as ours our Problematic User list is quite short, but it allows us a consolidated area to keep our in-game Region chat focused on our Space Ninja game. Nezha is a trap is pure spam - kickbot kicks spam as per the 'no spamming' rule.
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You guys do realize that "Nezha is a trap" would have died ages ago if you hadn't turned it into an issue, right?

People only really continue it because, for one, you guys made it into something bad, and two, that the antics done on stream whenever Nezha is discussed, either from some fanart being shown or whatever, only add fuel to it.

 

Additionally, can you comment on ANY of the feedback given throughout this topic?

I would love to see an actual employee response in regards to the points that I have made within this post.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

I'll be dropping in and posting some of the weekly reports I get from our professional Mod team so everyone knows what we're tracking and why in terms of moderation and noteable trends. It should be very clear from these reports the entirety of why we bother Moderating at all, and what our priorities are since making systemic changes. Luckily for a game as large as ours our Problematic User list is quite short, but it allows us a consolidated area to keep our in-game Region chat focused on our Space Ninja game. Nezha is a trap is pure spam - kickbot kicks spam as per the 'no spamming' rule.
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Rebecca,

I'm curious: why has DE not opted with just getting rid of Region entirely? It seems to be more of a problem than it is worth, and, to be frank, looks nigh unfixable. Would it not make more sense to simply remove it and then, after a few months (or maybe even a year) introduce a new channel dedicated solely to players helping players? I get that you want Warframe to have some sort of "social space", but it's clear that Region just isn't fulfilling that role. People want to have carte blanche to say whatever they want, and I think, many level headed people would agree, that that is not a good idea. Chat does need to be restricted, but this may be something that requires a complete rework. Taking it offline entirely would give you the breathing room to actually think about better ways to implement a "social space" with a clearer set of rules/code of conduct, as well as getting a new group of moderators, as opposed to this ad hoc "on the fly" approach to fixing the problem.

Just some thoughts on the matter.

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The chat moderation is a non-issue. If you don't like their policy on chat moderation, then don't use region chat. It's that simple.
I haven't had region chat enabled for years and I'm doing just fine.
 

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9 minutes ago, Feltal said:

What's wrong with saying the mods are biased?

Nothing, as long as you're not trying to publicly name and shame or instigate witch hunting--this behavior runs contrary to the first, fifth and sixth rules of the forums. 

If you have evidence of a moderator acting contrary to the code of conduct, you should immediately report the issue to DE staff using a support ticket. DE staff have access to chat logs and have every single action taken by moderators logged (they have the ability to see everything that we do). Even a little bit of information will help DE staff investigate a report of moderator misconduct (i.e. a time and date, chat region/language, etc).

As always, the public forums are not the place to report other users (or moderators) for misconduct; it should be done using a support ticket.

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7 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

DE staff have access to chat logs and have every single action taken by moderators logged (they have the ability to see everything that we do).

Are you sure about that? When I tried reporting a chat moderator, they didn't do anything because I didn't provide a big enough screenshot or a clip of the chat log.

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Just now, (XB1)Erudite God said:

Are you sure about that? When I tried reporting a chat moderator, they didn't do anything because I didn't provide a big enough screenshot or a clip of the chat log.

100% positive. Toss me a PM and we can discuss it more in depth.

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On 2019-02-25 at 11:00 PM, Letter13 said:

If you have evidence of a moderator acting contrary to the code of conduct, you should immediately report the issue to DE staff using a support ticket. DE staff have access to chat logs and have every single action taken by moderators logged (they have the ability to see everything that we do). Even a little bit of information will help DE staff investigate a report of moderator misconduct (i.e. a time and date, chat region/language, etc).

I am not claiming to be in the loop but from what I have seen posted in the cesspool that is reddit there seem to be some people that have compiled evidence of mods acting contrary to the coc. Again, I am not claiming to be right, just what I saw briefly on reddit before I gtho'd out of there.

 

and then there is the fact that moderators were allowed to have "satirical" that were antagonizing towards certain groups of people.

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Because the word trap, when used in this context, is a slur that is particularly offensive to trans people. Much like the N word is a slur, particularly offensive to people with more melanin in their skin. 

People are either ignorant to the issue at hand and spamming Nezha is a T---, or they're aware what they're saying is hurtful and advocating hate speech.

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Just now, Helch0rn said:

I am not claiming to be in the loop but from what I have seen posted in the cesspool that is reddit there seem to be some people that have compiled evidence of mods acting contrary to the coc. Again, I am not claiming to be right just what I saw briefly on reddit before I gtho'd out of there.

and then there is the fact that moderators were allowed to have "satirical" that were antagonizing towards certain groups of people.

Well, if they have concrete evidence of current chat moderators acting contrary to the Chat & Moderation Code of Conduct, they should contact DE staff ASAP. Going onto message boards and other sites to complain about how they've 'been wronged' by a moderator doesn't help to solve the issue.

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1 hour ago, sensitive.armstrong said:

I'm baffled that you had to release a report to let angry dudes on the internet know that you're moderating racism and transphobia??????

HONESTLY, like, it's so sad that this has to be said. Sorry you have to actually be a decent human being to not get banned 🤷

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On 2019-02-25 at 11:14 PM, notbydesign said:

Because the word trap, when used in this context, is a slur that is particularly offensive to trans people. Much like the N word is a slur, particularly offensive to people with more melanin in their skin. 

People are either ignorant to the issue at hand and spamming Nezha is a T---, or they're aware what they're saying is hurtful and advocating hate speech.

I disagree, i see it fitting, can't even begin to think how it can be offensive to anyone, traps are just an anime stereotype that applies very well to nezha, seems like someone just wants to be offended.

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1 minute ago, notbydesign said:

Because the word trap, when used in this context, is a slur that is particularly offensive to trans people. Much like the N word is a slur, particularly offensive to people with more melanin in their skin. 

People are either ignorant to the issue at hand and spamming Nezha is a T---, or they're aware what they're saying is hurtful and advocating hate speech.

 

Actually the term is used both positively and negatively (much like a lot of words).

The majority of its usage is actually seen more positively, the first instance I've even seen it considered negative was from DE turning it bannable.

 

I suggest looking into it as it's honestly fairly interesting to see the differing groups using it in such a wide range of ways. The end-result though is that anyone who is a truly hateful individual will simply use other words up until those new ones will get banned, and then just rinse and repeat.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Erudite God said:

Great, banning people who actually break the rules is cool - but what we really want is better ways to deal with getting banned unfairly or accidentally by the bot. 

Agree, at one point I remember being temporarily banned in chat for a short while, however I had no clue what I have done for it to happen as I avoid using any form of profanity. May have been a word which had a part of a word that triggered the bot.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

I'll be dropping in and posting some of the weekly reports I get from our professional Mod team so everyone knows what we're tracking and why in terms of moderation and noteable trends. It should be very clear from these reports the entirety of why we bother Moderating at all, and what our priorities are since making systemic changes. Luckily for a game as large as ours our Problematic User list is quite short, but it allows us a consolidated area to keep our in-game Region chat focused on our Space Ninja game. Nezha is a trap is pure spam - kickbot kicks spam as per the 'no spamming' rule.
image.png

I'm sorry, are we going to overlook that apparently comparing updates to Fortnite is now an offence?

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8 minutes ago, Ely.I said:

I disagree, i see it fitting, can't even begin to think how it can be offensive to anyone, traps are just an anime stereotype that applies very well to nezha, seems like someone just wants to be offended.

As someone often called a "trap", it's very harmful. There's people okay with being called that but the people not okay with it FAR outweigh those who are okay with it. Also "ladyboy" is the same as "boygirl" (and other variations of the two), and is often used as a derogatory term towards trans folks

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4 minutes ago, Ely.I said:

I disagree, i see it fitting, can't even begin to think how it can be offensive to anyone, traps are just an anime stereotype that applies very well to nezha, seems like someone just wants to be offended.

Because there's a thing called perspective. Saying something is acceptable in one country doesn't suddenly remove it's negative connotations in another. Surrounding yourself with like minded people will give you the impression that something can be normal. Long story short, not everyone's a weeb who shares your perspective.

3 minutes ago, Sean said:

 

Actually the term is used both positively and negatively (much like a lot of words).

The majority of its usage is actually seen more positively, the first instance I've even seen it considered negative was from DE turning it bannable.

 

I suggest looking into it as it's honestly fairly interesting to see the differing groups using it in such a wide range of ways. The end-result though is that anyone who is a truly hateful individual will simply use other words up until those new ones will get banned, and then just rinse and repeat.

I'm not sure what you mean, because whatever way you think you're using it, you're suggesting that it's acceptable when it can cause significant problems for many people. People are upset by the word because casually implying that someone may be intentionally deceptive, based on their gender, etc, is not a positive way to interact with someone.

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