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CPT_deBauch

Are "Mastery Rank Tests" there to make players leave the game?

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19 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

I'm going to go further, I'm happy to live in a day and age when people get offended from a picture, expect everything to be handed out to them and any form of defeat leads to surrender, because failure is the fault of everything else but themselves....good times.

 

Oh, and almost all of the MR tests are the different game modes we already have or abilities we use regularly. The only two tests, whose objective, I believe, goes out of the ordinary are 23 and 26. Somehow I doubt that the majority were complaining about those two, however.

You know, it should be a commandment now, this typical response from forumites.

Thou shalt ignore and misconstrue arguments of thine fellow players and berate them, for daring to speak ill of the Sacred components of the game.

 

Not much else to say. You are actively ignoring everything everyone has ever said and treating everyone like spoiled children. How about some communication, or is that beneath your superior caliber of a Tenno?

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On 2019-01-30 at 11:53 PM, CPT_deBauch said:

Because I fail to see what else can be achieved by this game design "feature". Really.

  1. It makes sure that if there are any bugs in MR gain DE have time to sort them before too much damage is caused by ensuring a 1 day pause between MR ranks.
  2. It illustrates things that you should be able to do by that MR rank, providing an indicator of your level of competence.
  3. It provides a crescendo to the long-burn of mastery gain.
  4. It can illustrate mechanics you haven't approached yet, that you should have seen by this point.
  5. It grounds your progress to a meaningful in-world event.

Not so hard if you think about it.

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20 minutes ago, toxicitzi said:

You know, it should be a commandment now, this typical response from forumites.

Thou shalt ignore and misconstrue arguments of thine fellow players and berate them, for daring to speak ill of the Sacred components of the game.

 

Not much else to say. You are actively ignoring everything everyone has ever said and treating everyone like spoiled children. How about some communication, or is that beneath your superior caliber of a Tenno?

What I had written isn't valid only for the game unfortunately.

What exactly am I ignoring? The likes of "MR tests teach nothing" and "have nothing in common with the core game" are not constructive and obviously false. E.G. from MR 1-10 there are: 4 exterminate test, 2 mobility test, 1 hacking test, 1 aiming test, 1 stealth test and 1 survival test. Failing any of those means that you've yet to learn the basic mechanics or acquire the needed equipment to be successful further down the line.

If in the time spent writing the topic the OP searched MR on the wiki, this topic wouldn't exist.

Moreover, everyone here act like they're a game designer, but I doubt any single one of us can encompass all the reasons for the MR tests to exist.

I understand I'm giving off an extremely negative vibe, but I simply can't condone complaining, when there is no point to it, not only because just venting on general will not get DE to do anything, but also because in the mean time anyone can just watch a video, mimic it and be +1MR

Last thing, the explanations given to what MR tests bring to the table are much more constructive and precise, than the "reasons" why the test shouldn't exist. A perfect example is the post above.

Edited by Ver1dian
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I really get bored by all the complaints about having to wait to re-sit a test that you failed because you weren't good enough to pass and claiming that it's driving people away from the game.

As for having nothing to do in game if you fail, are you kidding?  The game has literally tons of stuff you can do until you're able to re-take it, practicing the test as many times as you want being one of them.

I've failed a few tests as I've went through the game.  I was adult enough though to realise I failed because I wasn't good enough or I had made a mistake, then went away and done other stuff until I was good enough.  I didn't start acting like a spoilt child demanding de change the system and hand me everything on a plate.  There's no satisfaction or challenge in that.

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2 hours ago, CPT_deBauch said:

For me it's not (only) about OMGWTFBBQ_I_FAILED_TEST_*RAGEQUIT*, it's about the game chasing away it's players for significant periods of time.

For example: to progress further in this game I need to level up some weapons, the weapons I have parts for are MR8 locked so to start crafting (that's 12-24 hours BTW) them I need MR8.
If I fail MRT8 I have nothing to do in the game for 24 hours, and if after 24 hours cooldown I finally succeed at the test I have another 12 hours of nothing to do in the game while my weapons are being crafted.
While I'm waiting for another attempt at the test I might as well find some other game to play, and who knows, maybe even abandon Warframe completely to play that game instead.
Such outcome should be very much undesirable from DE's business point of view, hence my bewilderment about why this game mechanic exists the way it does.

You should have more than enough weapons, frames, sentinels, companions and so on to take you beyond MR8 without needing to pass the MR8 test to progress. Even if you are stuck at an MR test you can still gain affinity towards the next MR and so on.

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2 hours ago, CPT_deBauch said:

For example: to progress further in this game I need to level up some weapons, the weapons I have parts for are MR8 locked so to start crafting (that's 12-24 hours BTW) them I need MR8.
If I fail MRT8 I have nothing to do in the game for 24 hours, and if after 24 hours cooldown I finally succeed at the test I have another 12 hours of nothing to do in the game while my weapons are being crafted.
While I'm waiting for another attempt at the test I might as well find some other game to play, and who knows, maybe even abandon Warframe completely to play that game instead.
Such outcome should be very much undesirable from DE's business point of view, hence my bewilderment about why this game mechanic exists the way it does

If all you are after is to reach high MR fast then sure you have a point. 
I started  this game and wanted to reach a pretty high rank fast (I did slow down somewhat in the end because of other stuff I wanted to do like focus farming, eidolonhunts to name a few).
Anyway I reached MR22 in maybe 3-4 months then I took a break (Destiny Forsaken was pretty good I heard so went back for Destiny 4-5 months).
Now I am back in warframe and dont feel the need to reach the highest MR anymore I am just enjoying the game and all the stuff I missed (ESO, Arbitrations, Forunta etc etc).
Basically I have tons of stuff to do without even worrying about MR, and it feels so good not having to do hydron (insert own favourite XP place) for hours everyday to level up weapons you will never use again.

Sidenote:
This morning though I had 1 hour before a meeting so I thought I would forma 2 weapons 2 times (for a specific build) and was on my way to Hydron before I remembered Adaro (where I used to focus farm before I "went away").
It took maybe 4 runs on Adaro with equinox for both weapons :-)

 

Just saw SneakyErwins post above, and thats another way you could go about it and not feel hindered by the MR test.

Edited by (XB1)Dic3man

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2 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

What I had written isn't valid only for the game unfortunately.

What exactly am I ignoring? The likes of "MR tests teach nothing" and "have nothing in common with the core game" are not constructive and obviously false.

alright, mr. REAL FEEDBACK, gonna you stop your whole tirade right there.

even up to MR 10, anything past MR 6 should've already upped the challenge for any kind of legitimacy and even the amount of weapons you need to rank up to max doesn't matter, because infinite tries from Practice makes the point of a Test completely meaningless, when you're just copying the answers from your last try on the test itself, more so than applying the mechanics of the game into that test.

Other games know this sort of thing, that's why a try in a boss fight in the souls series doesn't give you a year repeat to qualify for the next Boss Fight Exam. Out of 4 max. You're learning how the boss reacts, the boss is in itself a harder challenge that asks what you've learned, as well as taking what you know further and if anyone is going to throw in some pretentious analogy, a hard boss fight in a Souls game is like doing a project, where you apply the knowledge and really put it to good use, where as the smaller enemies before the boss room were more like each one problem to solve in your homework.

Is it a S#&$ty enough analogy that tarnishes the name of Entertainment in videogames? because I damn well hope that it is.

 

 

Nothing of what you said hasn't already been learned more thoroughly in missions, while working your way up through the Mastery ranks.

It's all just a formality, a really stupid one that has to employ trickery in between tests of an uneven challenges jammed in between exceedingly simple ones.

 

 

If you haven't caught a single REAL FEEDBACK from what I've said, here's a bone for you, Uneven challenges between MR Tests is still an issue. I hope that one was nice enough not to slip your radar, like many other legitimate points many people make that no one really gives a S#&$ about.

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Imagine people still unable to execute generic jumps after...how many hours do most people have played on average after reaching enough MR for MR8?

If that seems already too tough that you're experiencing major progression stops (24h timers multiple times), you would probably stop WF at one point anyway when playing the "harder stuff". So i highly disagree that the Mastery Rank tests are at problem here.

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49 minutes ago, (PS4)drollive96 said:

So you just want everything to be handed to you? Come on, some of the mr tests are actually fun and challenging

They're really not, though.

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What this comes down to is that the OP doesn't like or use parkour or stealth mechanics, so they think the MR tests are irrelevant. Unfortunately, just because THEY PERSONALLY don't use the mechanics, doesn't mean the MR tests have nothing to do with the game.

I don't like stealth either, but I put up with stealth tests and spy missions because I know I should be able to use that tool that is available to me. And this is a game supposedly about space ninjas, so I feel I ought to be better at stealth, and I accept the tests.

If you don't like parkour... Why are you even playing this game? The movement and parkour mechanics are one of the things that sets Warframe apart from other, similar games. Even if you are "putting up" with parkour because you like the game otherwise, it is undeniable that you NEED to have a good grasp of the movement mechanics to play the game. Many of the levels are set up with parkour in mind for traversing them. As such, how are parkour-based MR tests irrelevant to the rest of the game?

In short... OP's original argument is flawed. It sounds like they play the game in a way that DE did not intend, so of course the tests seem irrelevant. But that doesn't mean that the tests are useless for everyone.

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10 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

I have failed a mastery test.

Do I need to improve my skills?

No! It's the tests that are badly designed and unneeded.

 

Резултат с изображение за no its the children who are wrong

 

 

Perfectly sums up OP

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1 hour ago, safaiaryu said:

What this comes down to is that the OP doesn't like or use parkour or stealth mechanics, so they think the MR tests are irrelevant. Unfortunately, just because THEY PERSONALLY don't use the mechanics, doesn't mean the MR tests have nothing to do with the game.

I use parkour all the time. And stealth for spy missions, otherwise not really. I use the mechanics of the game, and I still consider the MR tests irrelevant. I never learned anything from them that I hadn't already learned by just playing the game. Hell, most of the tests is just about avoiding the intended mechanics. Why use parkour in an MR test when you can just pick Titania and fly straight to the checkpoint? Why use stealth when you can just stand at the starting point and kill everyone with your redeemer? Like I said earlier, the only thing the tests teaches you, is how to cheese them.

Edited by rune_me
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7 hours ago, toxicitzi said:

alright, mr. REAL FEEDBACK, gonna you stop your whole tirade right there.

even up to MR 10, anything past MR 6 should've already upped the challenge for any kind of legitimacy and even the amount of weapons you need to rank up to max doesn't matter, because infinite tries from Practice makes the point of a Test completely meaningless, when you're just copying the answers from your last try on the test itself, more so than applying the mechanics of the game into that test.

Other games know this sort of thing, that's why a try in a boss fight in the souls series doesn't give you a year repeat to qualify for the next Boss Fight Exam. Out of 4 max. You're learning how the boss reacts, the boss is in itself a harder challenge that asks what you've learned, as well as taking what you know further and if anyone is going to throw in some pretentious analogy, a hard boss fight in a Souls game is like doing a project, where you apply the knowledge and really put it to good use, where as the smaller enemies before the boss room were more like each one problem to solve in your homework.

Is it a S#&$ty enough analogy that tarnishes the name of Entertainment in videogames? because I damn well hope that it is.

 

 

Nothing of what you said hasn't already been learned more thoroughly in missions, while working your way up through the Mastery ranks.

It's all just a formality, a really stupid one that has to employ trickery in between tests of an uneven challenges jammed in between exceedingly simple ones.

 

 

If you haven't caught a single REAL FEEDBACK from what I've said, here's a bone for you, Uneven challenges between MR Tests is still an issue. I hope that one was nice enough not to slip your radar, like many other legitimate points many people make that no one really gives a S#&$ about.

You call more complaining feedback?

OK.

Can you make up your mind if the tests are meaningless, because they're too easy, or are they uneven chalenges? Either way, either give examples of the tests in question or don't just come up with random unfounded excuses.

Just calling random words "real feedback" and "legitimate points" doesn't make them such. 

 

Edited by Ver1dian
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I have learned way more in life from my failures than my wins. It is about how you handle and learn from the failure. 

MR tests are far from perfect, but also they clearly work and force players to get more than one Warframe and mod better and hunt down a specific frame and mods etc. Thus the point is served in most cases. Watch the videos and know that a fail is a fail, its a game, try again the next day, give it a break for a week. MR means nothing in the game if you are having fun. 

 

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32 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

You call more complaining feedback?

OK.

Can you make up your mind if the tests are meaningless, because they're too easy, or are they uneven chalenges? Either way, either give examples of the tests in question or don't just come up with random unfounded excuses.

Just calling random words "real feedback" and "legitimate points" doesn't make them such. 

 

They are meaningless because they are ... well, meaningless. Because they server no purpose in the game. If you removed them from the game, nothing would change at all. That's kind of the definition of meaningless.

Okay, one thing that would change is the 24 hour delay between rank ups, but that could easily be kept just by only making it possible to gain an MR once every 24 hours without the actual test.

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Just now, (PS4)drollive96 said:

That is your opinion and your opinion is wrong

My opinion is never wrong.

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On 2019-02-02 at 2:40 AM, toxicitzi said:

-snip-

your assuming here that the tests should be linearly harder the higher the MR, but as they test different mechanics and game functions your reasoning may be flawed. As different tests will be harder or easier for different people or may be harder or easier simply based on the specific mechanic they contain, this is not uncommon in other games as well where a lower boss or level may be harder then a higher one simply due to a different mechanic or layout.

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I see some "MR TESTS MAKE YOU DO STUFF YOU NEVER NEED TO DO IN GAME."

Just a thought, but maybe they also teach you things to focus on that you may not have otherwise discovered?

My entire perception on video games changed way back when when I heard a developer say that the point of most of the game was to teach you how to win the boss fight.  Ever since then, I look to see how what is being asked is potentially useful.  For instance, the MR 23/26 test is a really good maneuvering/reaction exercise.

Edited by SteelShrike
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yes it means plenty, it means try looking at things with a bit more of an open mind, you might see things from a different point of view once and a while. and it discredits nothing as A. archwing was not added till later in the game so its mastery test comes a bit later in the progression and B. since there are a number of people at many mastery ranks that want nothing to do with archwing and have not bothered to learn any of it, its not all that impressive really. And as i have already said your still looking at them linearly, just because they are tests for your MR does not mean they need to get harder each time as they are just testing your knowledge of mechanics and basic game skills if they were really meant as a challenge you would not be allowed to practice them as you are now they would still be like they were, you could only try them once a day cold no practice.  

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I for one like them and have never looked at any youtube or cheese tactics for them (maybe thats what some people do and find them so easy) like killing the enemies in stealth tests with certain weapons.
I would suggest removing the practice test aswell until you have attempted the test atleast once first, basically you go in blind with no preparations (obviously most people would probably look them up on youtube anyway but still.

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15 minutes ago, (XB1)Dic3man said:


I would suggest removing the practice test aswell until you have attempted the test atleast once first, basically you go in blind with no preparations (obviously most people would probably look them up on youtube anyway but still.

Then more people with b!#$% about it lol.
I like the MR tests too, some are challenging and others are just plain annoying but I still like it. It's called "Mastery Rank Test" for a reason. Currently, a high MR doesn't mean anything to the game except for additional loadout slots, void traces, access to more weapons, etc. You can even reach MR20+ just by grinding one mission node over and over. With these 'tests" at least players are forced to learn something aside from hack and slash (or mashing 1 button 'till everything is dead). And while it doesn't really test the skills (coz you can cheese some of it) it test the player's knowledge of game mechanics (rather, teach players). I mean c'mon, if someone is gonna be a MR 26, I wanna think that they are reeeally friggin good with their maneuvers, their aim, they have cool game tactics and not just depend on one ability to win a mission, but that's not how it is as of now and MR test is the closest thing we have to that (actually, not even close but that's all we have and that's better than nothing haha).

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