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(PS4)shiwan8

Profit Taker balance

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il y a 1 minute, GPrime96 a dit :

But Profit Taker and other Missions or Gamemode in the Star Chart isn’t Arbitration everytime.

Yeah and? If your teammate is not prepared then why bother reviving?

On any mission, if your teammate just dies all time then you shouldn't bother. It's a waste of time and just slows you down.

Same applies to the Profit Taker. If your teammate just goes down all the time and does no damage to PT then don't bother.

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6 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

Nope. Since this is the case everywhere on the starchart. Someone Always goes down then you stop reviving that player cause there is no point in keeping your teammate alive. (Mot for Example) It's just a waste of time.

Point is this is not exclusive to the orb mother fight therefoe it's not the bad design that causes this. 

But from what you're saying any fight or mission that can't be completed by just anyone with any gear is bad design. 

The PT fight requires you to prepare. To have an "end game" setup since Vallis supposed to be a challenging map.

It’s the case exactly nowhere in normal missions. Not on tridolon either. In arbitration reviving is not a thing at all. No, it’s just this fight. 

Did you look at your logic critically before posting it. You are essentially now claiming that because your experience is bad everywhere including this one fight it can’t be a bad design. Even if you are alone with your experience and the rest of us don’t have to pick up people all the time on every mission. Do I need to point out the problems in that logic you presented?

your straw men will not prevail. I never claimed anything the like you now claim I did. I get that you are angry because you disagree but can’t give any validity to your own point of view. Now, you should either correct your own failures in this discussion or move on. Your presence at the moment is not beneficial to anyone, least of all to you. 

If “end game setup” is nothing but the ability to take anything right in to the face without flinching then the endgame design is bad. Just saying. 

4 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

Yeah and? If your teammate is not prepared then why bother reviving?

On any mission, if your teammate just dies all time then you shouldn't bother. It's a waste of time and just slows you down.

Same applies to the Profit Taker. If your teammate just goes down all the time and does no damage to PT then don't bother.

Why are you playing this with people since that clearly is not your thing? 

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il y a 2 minutes, (PS4)shiwan8 a dit :

It’s the case exactly nowhere in normal missions. Not on tridolon either. In arbitration reviving is not a thing at all. No, it’s just this fight. 

Did you look at your logic critically before posting it. You are essentially now claiming that because your experience is bad everywhere including this one fight it can’t be a bad design. Even if you are alone with your experience and the rest of us don’t have to pick up people all the time on every mission. Do I need to point out the problems in that logic you presented?

your straw men will not prevail. I never claimed anything the like you now claim I did. I get that you are angry because you disagree but can’t give any validity to your own point of view. Now, you should either correct your own failures in this discussion or move on. Your presence at the moment is not beneficial to anyone, least of all to you. 

If “end game setup” is nothing but the ability to take anything right in to the face without flinching then the endgame design is bad. Just saying. 

Why are you playing this with people since that clearly is not your thing? 

And now I don't even know what you're saying. But tbh i'm kinda tired of this conversation so I will just go and do something else. Good luck with whatever you're doing here.

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Sorry but if you can't beat Profit Taker solo as an operator with an unranked mote amp, it just proves how broken it is, 😛

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18 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

And now I don't even know what you're saying. But tbh i'm kinda tired of this conversation so I will just go and do something else. Good luck with whatever you're doing here.

I’m glad you decided to do so even though I can’t imagine how my argument would have been unclear. I pointed out the problems in your and countered, explicitly. 

 

Thanks. I’m going to continue owning the missions whether or not the devs made/make adjustments that allow wider range of frames to participate in them. Good luck to you too. 

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On 2019-02-02 at 7:26 AM, (PS4)shiwan8 said:

Even if it was reasonably doable you’d still end up dying because of the AoE it throws every now and then. 

do you realize that this sentence basically apply for both Eidolon fights and the Profit Taker?

there are only 2 different that notable between the 2, considering the argument of "spider are harder than eidolon":  

 1st different is that the magnetic prod in Profit taker fight is more random, and harder to avoid, because sometime it coming from the mobs, not the boss.

 2nd difference is that in Eidolon fight, you spend more, or most of the time as operator to take down the shield and have invulnerability at a button, and still being immoral considering being killed only send u back to the frame. While profit taker would have u stay in the frame and deal damage constantly. This in turn demand more survivability from the frame you choose, or the support from your team.

Aside from those 2 point, other aspect of the 2 fight feel pretty much the same in term of the boss. Both have insane AoE damage that oneshot almost any frame without proper skill to counter so that's hardly a reason for saying Profit taker is imbalance compare to eidolon, try a different one.

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, FireSegment said:

do you realize that this sentence basically apply for both Eidolon fights and the Profit Taker?

there are only 2 different that notable between the 2, considering the argument of "spider are harder than eidolon":  

 1st different is that the magnetic prod in Profit taker fight is more random, and harder to avoid, because sometime it coming from the mobs, not the boss.

 2nd difference is that in Eidolon fight, you spend more, or most of the time as operator to take down the shield and have invulnerability at a button, and still being immoral considering being killed only send u back to the frame. While profit taker would have u stay in the frame and deal damage constantly. This in turn demand more survivability from the frame you choose, or the support from your team.

Aside from those 2 point, other aspect of the 2 fight feel pretty much the same in term of the boss. Both have insane AoE damage that oneshot almost any frame without proper skill to counter so that's hardly a reason for saying Profit taker is imbalance compare to eidolon, try a different one.

 

 

 

 

 

Profit Taker actually uses operators, (or you should use one if you are smart.) When the pylons get dropped, you void dash over to them and you want to use the charged shot and have an amp built with the phahd scaffold because then you can one shot the pylons with your amp, void dash back over to the fight, and continue back as the warframe.

 

That said I think the pylons only show up once during the fight. 

 

I have now been in a PUB for about 5 fights with the Profit Taker with a dude who regularly solos it. Part of what helped me doing it with him was that he would call out the damage type and then I knew what to hit it with if I had anything for that. But either way, I've seen other people solo it and honestly, if you can't, you just need a more organized group than with. say, eidolons.

 

It's not actually a hard fight basically, just learning it is a little difficult.

 

You want to talk about a hard fight to learn, though, Jordas Verdict was horrendous. The only difference from now is that most people didn't know about Raid Bus and so felt the raids were entirely inaccessible to them.

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I'm still confused by everyone saying that the phahd scaffold somehow one-shots pylons despite the fact that higher-damage scaffolds fail to do so. Does it just consistently bug out and multihit the hell out of them or something? Are there bizarre damage multipliers against objects?

it's widespread enough of a claim that i believe it, but i'm baffled as to how it works

Edited by OvisCaedo

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For solo the only option is Ivara for obvious reasons

Did you really just say that???
That is the worst option out there, sure Ivara can turn invisible for a long time but she is still hurt by aoe.

How much of your focus is complete?
Learning how to use your operator is a core element to these endgame fights.

Inaros is a bad choice, he brings nothing but not dying and since literally every frame cannot die if you know how to use your operator so that is why you want someone that is actually bringing something to the team.

Almost any frame can be used in almost any activity. For Christ's sake I solely use Mirage for the spider; huge damage buff (>600% damage buff). Someone thinking that there are only a select few options to an activity just shows that you don't know how something about it works.

All I can say is that the profit taker is not hard, and should remain the same. Learn how to use every tool in the toolbox before complaining about how something is bad design. 
(Knockdown is not fun, but is completely avoidable if you just stay away from the adds on something)

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17 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Profit Taker actually uses operators, (or you should use one if you are smart.) When the pylons get dropped, you void dash over to them and you want to use the charged shot and have an amp built with the phahd scaffold because then you can one shot the pylons with your amp, void dash back over to the fight, and continue back as the warframe.

you missed my point. It was never about " how much should u use operator in what fight" like the way you understand  

My point is that BOTH profit taker and eidolon have insane AoE damage. the fact that it's required to stay in operator form much longer in eidolon fight to take down the shield than profit taker fight created an illusion that eidolon fight is easier in term of survivability, while it actually not. Thus the AoE argument in the post i quoted is false.

In other word, you are not suppose to be in operator form most of Profit taker fight, only in a few key moment (cuz you suppose to stay in the frame and shoot the shield), in Eidolon fights it's the opposite. And due to operator convenient ability to be invulnerable, it make player misjudge the difficulty of the fight. Is that clear enough for you?

Edited by FireSegment

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3 hours ago, FireSegment said:

you missed my point. It was never about " how much should u use operator in what fight" like the way you understand  

My point is that BOTH profit taker and eidolon have insane AoE damage. the fact that it's required to stay in operator form much longer in eidolon fight to take down the shield than profit taker fight created an illusion that eidolon fight is easier in term of survivability, while it actually not. Thus the AoE argument in the post i quoted is false.

In other word, you are not suppose to be in operator form most of Profit taker fight, only in a few key moment (cuz you suppose to stay in the frame and shoot the shield), in Eidolon fights it's the opposite. And due to operator convenient ability to be invulnerable, it make player misjudge the difficulty of the fight. Is that clear enough for you?

eesh, relax, frenlo. No one is out to get you.

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Hooray! I was bored and accomplished the "impossible" on a whim! A solo Nyx kill for no good reason at all. No deaths, I think three energy pads. Mayyybe four? Coulda been a lot easier if I had a better spread of weapons. Also they do still need to fix up some archgun/ability interactions in general, it's pretty silly that I can't summon OR put away my archgun with assimilate active. I also found out that the propa scaffold cannot even HIT the pylons, which is very silly.JGaLn4l.jpg

Edited by OvisCaedo
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There's alot of adds wiping people in random pug groups or by simply holding back, ()I hold back because I don't need to suffer burn out with a mental illness) maybe instead of corpus adds with giant fluctus weapons, just keep the enemies on a relative level, like... Spiders only? Trust me if you do this you'll have better odds surviving, and focusing on the profit taker after the group wipes out the other Spiders. If its a Spider boss hung on destroying tenno i feel it would be awesome to fight the Profit taker and a mass of its kin. 

Another Idea: Making Imprints Link Matters just as much as Rivens and songs.

Another Idea: just throwing it out there, More Prime Archwing Stuff? Gravimags threw the dismissal out the window right?

I mean other than consideration for those having problems with the amount of adds in profit taker, the game is really great with all they pack into one update.

on a side note, DE does a better job than more f2p games, its really important to show a little gratitude to those who work hard and continue to do so. Otherwise we all lose... (Relays remember? Lol)...

Edited by (PS4)RYu_Mugetsu777
Exhausted and agitated on first draft.
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I completely agree with the OP. As someone who has enjoyed tridolon fights I find the profit taker compeletely unenjoyable. I have still yet to complete a single take down successfully, and I’ve been playing since ps4 launch and MR26. To say the profit taker is something most people can do would be a totally untrue statement. 

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Having spent some more time with the Profit-Taker now, I can say I rather enjoy the fight aside from the occasional excessive amount of CC that can be thrown around.

The best way I've found of dealing with this is actually to use Gara and stack her 2.  This eliminates the most egregious perpetrator of CC - the Trencher - since once your Shatter Shield hits about 50k in damage you'll be killing the Trenchers as soon as they touch your shield.  This means they fly at you and die, plopping uselessly to the floor before they have a chance to use that damnable ground pound of theirs.  Arca Plasmor and a pretty tricked out Gibberguts for my shield killing needs, cycling damage with Operator if it's cold, electricity, gas, toxin or impact, and a two forma Imperator Vandal using Resolute Focus so I become CC immune while aiming down sights.  Best I've managed so far is about a 15 minute mission time, so maybe a 12-13 minute kill, but depending on where I fight her things can take longer.  The wider open area that is northwest of Fortuna is the worst, as chip damage becomes a major issue, even with 99% DR from Gara's 2 and stacked Adaptation.

My only real gripe with the fight - and this is probably hardware related on my end - is that loading into a public game has a pretty high chance of crashing me out of the fight if it's already been started.  If I get into a fresh group things tend to go well as long as someone doesn't hot join while the fight is in progress, but if I join after someone has engaged PT, then it's almost assured that my game will freeze as it's trying to process everything and I'll get kicked back to Fortuna.  This is with video settings at low and no other programs/downloads besides Steam running in the background.  I'll notice my RAM usage in game spike up almost to 3k followed by a brief freeze and then the disconnect notification.  Now, to be fair, my RAM is about a decade old at this point, so degradation has most likely occurred and I'd be surprised if I'm getting 50% output from either stick, meaning I'm really working with anywhere from 4-8GB of RAM instead of 16.  But I also don't have this issue with eidolons, even while Harry is going nuts with the aoe all over the place.

Either way, the fight is fun and mechanically sound, can be soloed with the right setup but will manage to go much quicker with a good team, and while some people don't like the rewards, I enjoy being able to farm extra SU rep while I'm farming VS rep.  Each PT kill grants 1k to SU along with another 2200 rep via debt bonds (500+800+900) which means a handful of kills is enough to continue working on buying arcanes or building kitguns/MOA's without actually going out of your way to farm SU rep.  Only suggestion I'd add as far as loot goes would be a chance for the systems (4 Gyro, 3 Atmo, 2 Repeller) to drop with a 60/30/10% breakdown.  Another chance at obtaining those, even if it's just a chance, would go a ways towards easing the frustration of grinding out bounties or blowing hard-earned VS rep in order to get necessary crafting/upgrade materials.

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