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megalomaniacalHalide

Maybe it's time we dropped the daily standing caps

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Hey, so we've been playing this game for a while.  I've been here since public launch, I've had friends playing since the early access days, but a lot of us can't or don't play as much as we used to.  I'm seeing it as kind of a recurring trend amongst the employed and the parental - they have maybe one or two days off, and then five or six days of work and labour.   And if we're trying to get somewhere with standing - be it with cetus, the quills, fortuna, little duck - most of my friends are hitting a wall and leaving.  Which is a bloody shame, cuz we all love the game and love playing together, but it's been months and they're still not able to get to max rank for those sweet rewards or boss fights.  They have a day off, they play until they hit the cap, and they could be progressing further or playing more but they've come to a stop, and they feel like their time isn't being respected.

So maybe, for the sake of those of us working on call, or working two jobs, or otherwise only able to get in that one beautiful day for gaming amongst two weeks of hell, just let us grind to our hearts content.  I get that people with high mastery rank - and I'm one of them, at MR 26 - enjoy the reward of being able to progress further for having got to higher ranks.  But it's also turning away people who just get that one or two days a month where they can game until their eyeballs are sore and have little to no opportunity otherwise, and I feel like giving them the chance to plough through and make huge leaps and bounds forward in progress would help retain them as well.

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Not going to happen... the 'no lifers' will be able to grind stuff out too quickly and that will completely destroy DE's business model.

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3 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Not going to happen... the 'no lifers' will be able to grind stuff out too quickly and that will completely destroy DE's business model.

How so?  There's literally nothing you can buy that'll let you get around the daily limits.  There's no business being done there, no boosters for standing, and no means of farming trade-ins that let you get around daily standing caps.  It's an arbitrary limitation without any bypass whatsoever, paid or otherwise.  Even the majority of the rewards for standing - amp parts and arcanes - can't be bought with plat.  Sure, it might ding the plat-buyouts for Baruuk and maybe Revenant, but that seems extremely minor in comparison to losing frustrated players.

Edited by megalomaniacalHalide
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I really think the standing limit should be the same for everyone and not scale with mr. It seems unfair for newer players , everyone should get an even amount of daily standing , (25,000 maybe?) This Wouldn't hurt their business model and would also make it easier for newer players to progress

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12 minutes ago, megalomaniacalHalide said:

How so?  There's literally nothing you can buy that'll let you get around the daily limits.  There's no business being done there, no boosters for standing, and no means of farming trade-ins that let you get around daily standing caps.  It's an arbitrary limitation without any bypass whatsoever, paid or otherwise.  Even the majority of the rewards for standing - amp parts and arcanes - can't be bought with plat.  Sure, it might ding the plat-buyouts for Baruuk and maybe Revenant, but that seems extremely minor in comparison to losing frustrated players.

You do realise that the whole idea is for DE to sell stuff right, primarily to newbies, because they have to support the game somehow..

As for the record, I work (freelance so more than just a 9-5), I don't necessarily fill up my daily standing every day, my focus is no where near finished and it really does not matter if I don't fill up my daily standing...

Also just a side note... how will removing the cap benefit players who can't even hit the current cap...and don't just say they can binge on weekends as that's no reason to remove the cap imo.

 

Edited by LSG501

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13 minutes ago, (PS4)drollive96 said:

I really think the standing limit should be the same for everyone and not scale with mr. It seems unfair for newer players , everyone should get an even amount of daily standing , (25,000 maybe?) This Wouldn't hurt their business model and would also make it easier for newer players to progress

this 

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26 minutes ago, (PS4)drollive96 said:

I really think the standing limit should be the same for everyone and not scale with mr. It seems unfair for newer players , everyone should get an even amount of daily standing , (25,000 maybe?) This Wouldn't hurt their business model and would also make it easier for newer players to progress

I mean we all were low level at one point in time. It was fair for us back then.
So why is it now unfair for the low levels? If they want a higher cap, they can just rank up their mastery. This system give a meaning to mastery. And if someone doesn't want to rank up mastery, or if they are too lazy, then they have to deal with what they got. It's that simple.

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44 minutes ago, megalomaniacalHalide said:

So maybe, for the sake of those of us working on call, or working two jobs, or otherwise only able to get in that one beautiful day for gaming amongst two weeks of hell, just let us grind to our hearts content.

Why not do all of the other content outside the rep walls?

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5 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Why not do all of the other content outside the rep walls?

Please keep in mind these aren't people just getting into the game, we've been playing since the general public was literally allowed to play this game.  starmap's finished, boss fights are in the past.  These are MR 18-24 players who are saying 'man I don't have 3 hours on a daily basis, but I do have 8 hours a couple times a month' who don't feel like they're being allowed to make significant progress towards accessing new content, so they simply go off to play something else.

I'm not saying it's the only reason why some less-devoted vets are wandering off, but it's definitely something I'm seeing more of lately.

Edited by megalomaniacalHalide
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48 minutes ago, megalomaniacalHalide said:

that one or two days a month where they can game until their eyeballs are sore

Also most every Rep has an item to Rep conversion. I understand that work gets in the way but I tend to save up on items I can trade for rep. Just login at some point to hit cap fast that day. You have one day to play get a resource booster and fish / mine with the 2x drop and you set till next time.

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10 minutes ago, megalomaniacalHalide said:

so they simply go off to play something else.

Then make the case this is enough of the population to care about. This thread only makes sense if this group actually matters to DE.

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Honestly, I'd just love it if they'd make weekly or bi-weekly caps instead of daily ones, so I didn't feel like I was being punished for being an adult who doesn't get to grind out rep much during the week.

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7 hours ago, RedDirtTrooper said:

Honestly, I'd just love it if they'd make weekly or bi-weekly caps instead of daily ones, so I didn't feel like I was being punished for being an adult who doesn't get to grind out rep much during the week.

Yeah a weekly cap instead of daily is a cap is probably the best fix, not everyone can log in everyday. I could see it work like this an MR 0 player has 7000 weekly standing cap each MR rank increases the weekly standing cap by 7000.

Edited by DrivaMain
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8 hours ago, RedDirtTrooper said:

Honestly, I'd just love it if they'd make weekly or bi-weekly caps instead of daily ones, so I didn't feel like I was being punished for being an adult who doesn't get to grind out rep much during the week.

The no-lifers would burn through their weekly rep cap on the first day and we would all drown in their tears.(no offense, I'm a no lifer working "on call" from home.)

How bout a daily cap of 10,000 standing under MR 10, 20,000 standing between MR 10 & 20, and 30,000 standing between MR 20 & 30.

DE still gets to gate content. New players don't hit the cap so quickly, players still get milestones where you feel you gained something for your troubles, and those who have put in the time to slog past MR 20 have enough to keep them busy for a 24 hour period (between Ostron/Quills/Solaris United/Vox Solaris/Syndicates/New Factions. 

If that's too generous then use increments of 5,000 standing for every 5 MR. Or an initial cap of 10,000 under MR 10 and increments of 5,000 every 5 MR after that.

Point is, there is plenty of room to compromise and keep gating intact while filing off the sharp edges.

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vor 16 Stunden schrieb megalomaniacalHalide:

How so?  There's literally nothing you can buy that'll let you get around the daily limits.  There's no business being done there, no boosters for standing, and no means of farming trade-ins that let you get around daily standing caps.  It's an arbitrary limitation without any bypass whatsoever, paid or otherwise.  Even the majority of the rewards for standing - amp parts and arcanes - can't be bought with plat.  Sure, it might ding the plat-buyouts for Baruuk and maybe Revenant, but that seems extremely minor in comparison to losing frustrated players.

Hmm.. a booster that doubles the caps.. I'd buy that ^^ 

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To the op :

your friends can litteraly farm stuff during those big period of times they have, and give it back daily... of course if they stop and complain when they hit their daily cap that day... not gonna work...

And arcanes CAN BE SOLD for platinum to other players, and platinum need to come from somewhere you know ?

Suggesting those standing caps have no impact in the game economy is wrong...

 

Il y a 22 heures, (PS4)drollive96 a dit :

I really think the standing limit should be the same for everyone and not scale with mr. It seems unfair for newer players , everyone should get an even amount of daily standing , (25,000 maybe?) This Wouldn't hurt their business model and would also make it easier for newer players to progress

It's not even a solution for OP, it's a fake solution for new players... can't you see all the post from new players complaining that the MR system isn't rewarding enough? want to remove one of those reward ?  

When did it become unfair ? When you started the game ?

I'm absolutely sure you know everything about DE business model to say such things...

 

 

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I think another huge problem that needs to be addressed is just the whole MR system in general, I think it's pretty stupid that MR decides how much standing cap you have and not something else entirely that actually relates to syndicates. Gaining MR is literally just leveling MR fodder, which entails sitting around in ESO with a kraken and other equally bad weapons.

Standing caps shouldnt be decided by how well you can laze around in ESO or hydron leveling the plethora of trash tier weapons via teammate affinity, it just doesn't make sense. Syndicate standing caps should be determined by activities related to said syndicate, make syndicate missions raise the cap for the syndicate you do it for after doing enough of them, not by how big your arsenal is.

As a player at MR19 who owns all the weapons and frames that I could possibly need, I am not interested in crafting and leveling some "one night stand" weapon that I know will never be taken out again after I level it to 30, never mind hundreds of them. Players shouldn't be forced to grind the mastery points from weapons they deem useless to them, such as a basic sybaris when you own both dex sybaris and sybaris prime, or the penta when you have a zarr, things you will have zero use for since you already have things that fill their uses much better, just because you want to raise the amount of standing you are able to gain in a day from syndicates.

TL:DR how much MR fodder you've leveled should not correlate to how big your daily standing caps are, it's a bad system that should have zero relation to one other.

Edited by birdobash

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3 hours ago, birdobash said:

I think another huge problem that needs to be addressed is just the whole MR system in general, I think it's pretty stupid that MR decides how much standing cap you have and not something else entirely that actually relates to syndicates. Gaining MR is literally just leveling MR fodder, which entails sitting around in ESO with a kraken and other equally bad weapons.

Standing caps shouldnt be decided by how well you can laze around in ESO or hydron leveling the plethora of trash tier weapons via teammate affinity, it just doesn't make sense. Syndicate standing caps should be determined by activities related to said syndicate, make syndicate missions raise the cap for the syndicate you do it for after doing enough of them, not by how big your arsenal is.

As a player at MR19 who owns all the weapons and frames that I could possibly need, I am not interested in crafting and leveling some "one night stand" weapon that I know will never be taken out again after I level it to 30, never mind hundreds of them. Players shouldn't be forced to grind the mastery points from weapons they deem useless to them, such as a basic sybaris when you own both dex sybaris and sybaris prime, or the penta when you have a zarr, things you will have zero use for since you already have things that fill their uses much better, just because you want to raise the amount of standing you are able to gain in a day from syndicates.

TL:DR how much MR fodder you've leveled should not correlate to how big your daily standing caps are, it's a bad system that should have zero relation to one other.

alright, so ignoring that it's only loosely related to the main post for a moment, let's assume you're right that using new weapons, warframes and generally playing the game is a bad way to award mastery ranks to players. what's the alternative? what other way can you imagine to show mastery that wouldn't feel like another checklist of MR fodder?

 

oh, and on another note, the only marginally good suggestion from this thread so far is weekly standing caps. except in the case you're busy for a week and lose a week's progress, then come to the forums to make the same complaint and suggest monthly caps. then yearly. in other words, making the timespan arbitrary doesn't address the issue of you not having enough time to play the game. if you can't play, then don't expect to progress as quickly as someone who can. it sucks you can't, but it's not DE's fault you were busy all week.

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On 2019-02-01 at 10:28 AM, megalomaniacalHalide said:

Hey, so we've been playing this game for a while.  I've been here since public launch, I've had friends playing since the early access days, but a lot of us can't or don't play as much as we used to.  I'm seeing it as kind of a recurring trend amongst the employed and the parental - they have maybe one or two days off, and then five or six days of work and labour.   And if we're trying to get somewhere with standing - be it with cetus, the quills, fortuna, little duck - most of my friends are hitting a wall and leaving.  Which is a bloody shame, cuz we all love the game and love playing together, but it's been months and they're still not able to get to max rank for those sweet rewards or boss fights.  They have a day off, they play until they hit the cap, and they could be progressing further or playing more but they've come to a stop, and they feel like their time isn't being respected.

So maybe, for the sake of those of us working on call, or working two jobs, or otherwise only able to get in that one beautiful day for gaming amongst two weeks of hell, just let us grind to our hearts content.  I get that people with high mastery rank - and I'm one of them, at MR 26 - enjoy the reward of being able to progress further for having got to higher ranks.  But it's also turning away people who just get that one or two days a month where they can game until their eyeballs are sore and have little to no opportunity otherwise, and I feel like giving them the chance to plough through and make huge leaps and bounds forward in progress would help retain them as well.

At least drop them for conclave and simarus. I understand for other syndicates because of the amount of money a dedicated person could make by doing this.

Also, even though I'm max focus, it's bullS#&$ that focus caps exist. It literally time gates content. #*!% off with that DE. That would be like them saying "You can only level one warframe and weapon per day"

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On 2019-02-01 at 11:08 AM, WhiteMarker said:

I mean we all were low level at one point in time. It was fair for us back then.
So why is it now unfair for the low levels? If they want a higher cap, they can just rank up their mastery. This system give a meaning to mastery. And if someone doesn't want to rank up mastery, or if they are too lazy, then they have to deal with what they got. It's that simple.

I don't really have much opinion on the caps because I'm already high MR, but back in the day there were also nowhere NEAR as many huge swathes of content and items TIED to daily rep caps. Old syndicates had a lot less items in them, and the traditional syndicate system also has missions that give standing outside of the daily MR cap, as well as items to hunt IN those missions for even more. While it's obviously still better to have high MR, those sizable chunks of standing outside of the daily cap do a lot to make it less of a crawl to rank syndicates up as lower-ranked players.

but I don't really have much opinion on the current stuff, again, because I've never actually been in a position to experience what it feels like to come into these big MR-based content updates as a lower MR! You probably haven't either, frankly! Maybe they blow things out of proportion and it's not so bad. Maybe it could use a looking at. Though, if anything, I do feel like the answer would just be doing something like the "regular" syndicates and having SOMETHING that gives a daily chunk separate from the regular cap.

Edited by OvisCaedo

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On 2019-02-01 at 11:34 AM, megalomaniacalHalide said:

How so?  There's literally nothing you can buy that'll let you get around the daily limits.  There's no business being done there, no boosters for standing, and no means of farming trade-ins that let you get around daily standing caps.  It's an arbitrary limitation without any bypass whatsoever, paid or otherwise.  Even the majority of the rewards for standing - amp parts and arcanes - can't be bought with plat.  Sure, it might ding the plat-buyouts for Baruuk and maybe Revenant, but that seems extremely minor in comparison to losing frustrated players.

And you're missing one big part of DE's business:
Getting players to sign in day after day after day after day after day.
Because that is a big part of why standing caps are designed as they are, so you have to sign in the next day and the next day and the next day  and can't just do everything in 2 or 3 days.  A game like WF lives and dies by player numbers, and by having standing caps that players can't work around and forces them to sign in repeatedly to get what they want it helps keep player numbers up.

There are quite a few things in game designed to force players to sign in day after day, standing caps are just one of them.

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10 hours ago, HC217 said:

alright, so ignoring that it's only loosely related to the main post for a moment, let's assume you're right that using new weapons, warframes and generally playing the game is a bad way to award mastery ranks to players. what's the alternative? what other way can you imagine to show mastery that wouldn't feel like another checklist of MR fodder?

 

oh, and on another note, the only marginally good suggestion from this thread so far is weekly standing caps. except in the case you're busy for a week and lose a week's progress, then come to the forums to make the same complaint and suggest monthly caps. then yearly. in other words, making the timespan arbitrary doesn't address the issue of you not having enough time to play the game. if you can't play, then don't expect to progress as quickly as someone who can. it sucks you can't, but it's not DE's fault you were busy all week.

I literally never said leveling weapons for MR was a bad system, I said leveling MR that directly correlates to an increase in your daily standing cap is a bad system. Syndicates and MR should be completely seperate from each other, syndicate caps should be determined by things you do for said syndicate and not how high your MR is, since high MR just means you have a lot of gear, a lot of which is probably bad.

MR already determined what weapons you're allowed to craft and what rivens you're able to use, it should just stick with that and not interfere with syndicates at all, the system is equivalent to how many different types of forks you own determines how high of a position you are at work.

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22 minutes ago, birdobash said:

I literally never said leveling weapons for MR was a bad system, I said leveling MR that directly correlates to an increase in your daily standing cap is a bad system. Syndicates and MR should be completely seperate from each other, syndicate caps should be determined by things you do for said syndicate and not how high your MR is, since high MR just means you have a lot of gear, a lot of which is probably bad.

MR already determined what weapons you're allowed to craft and what rivens you're able to use, it should just stick with that and not interfere with syndicates at all, the system is equivalent to how many different types of forks you own determines how high of a position you are at work.

except you did.

14 hours ago, birdobash said:

I think another huge problem that needs to be addressed is just the whole MR system in general, I think it's pretty stupid that MR decides how much standing cap you have and not something else entirely that actually relates to syndicates. Gaining MR is literally just leveling MR fodder, which entails sitting around in ESO with a kraken and other equally bad weapons.

Standing caps shouldnt be decided by how well you can laze around in ESO or hydron leveling the plethora of trash tier weapons via teammate affinity, it just doesn't make sense. Syndicate standing caps should be determined by activities related to said syndicate, make syndicate missions raise the cap for the syndicate you do it for after doing enough of them, not by how big your arsenal is.

As a player at MR19 who owns all the weapons and frames that I could possibly need, I am not interested in crafting and leveling some "one night stand" weapon that I know will never be taken out again after I level it to 30, never mind hundreds of them. Players shouldn't be forced to grind the mastery points from weapons they deem useless to them, such as a basic sybaris when you own both dex sybaris and sybaris prime, or the penta when you have a zarr, things you will have zero use for since you already have things that fill their uses much better, just because you want to raise the amount of standing you are able to gain in a day from syndicates.

TL:DR how much MR fodder you've leveled should not correlate to how big your daily standing caps are, it's a bad system that should have zero relation to one other.

you had a clear stance against MR being determined "by how well you can laze around in ESO or hydron leveling the plethora of trash tier weapons via teammate affinity". so you've clearly got something against the MR system, which affects your opinion of whether MR should matter for syndicates. if you want to argue against progression (advantage for playing the game longer than a newbie), then fine. but don't pretend you're not.

Edited by HC217
missed some bolding to further highlight the point

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21 minutes ago, HC217 said:

except you did.

you had a clear stance against MR being determined "by how well you can laze around in ESO or hydron leveling the plethora of trash tier weapons via teammate affinity". so you've clearly got something against the MR system, which affects your opinion of whether MR should matter for syndicates. if you want to argue against progression (advantage for playing the game longer than a newbie), then fine. but don't pretend you're not.

You should REALLY read that whole thing like 5 times again, because I clearly never said MR shouldn't be gained from weapons, I said Syndicate standing caps SHOULDN'T be determined by your MR, which is determined by how many weapons you have leveled (aka laying around in ESO).

What I'm saying is Mastery rank=/= syndicate standing cap, because Mastery rank is gained 99% from leveling gear, a completely unrelated factor from syndicates. Gear leveled correlating to MR is fine, but gear leveled correlating to MR correlating to standing caps is NOT fine. The connection BETWEEN MR and syndicates is the part that isn't fine, not the MR system itself.

You also completely ignored the front and backs of the parts you bolded, taking it extremely out of context, because if you were to read the entire sentence instead of a bit between commas, the sentence means something else entirely.

Edited by birdobash

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11 minutes ago, birdobash said:

You should REALLY read that whole thing like 5 times again, because I clearly never said MR shouldn't be gained from weapons, I said Syndicate standing caps SHOULDN'T be determined by your MR, which is determined by how many weapons you have leveled (aka laying around in ESO).

What I'm saying is Mastery rank=/= syndicate standing cap, because Mastery rank is gained 99% from leveling gear, a completely unrelated factor from syndicates. Gear leveled correlating to MR is fine, but gear leveled correlating to MR correlating to standing caps is NOT fine. The connection BETWEEN MR and syndicates is the part that isn't fine, not the MR system itself.

You also completely ignored the front and backs of the parts you bolded, taking it extremely out of context, because if you were to read the entire sentence instead of a bit between commas it means something else entirely.

we're really starting to derail from the post, so this is the last i'll be talking about this. you clearly dislike the MR system, based on your own words. if you can't own up to that, then fine. if you dislike syndicate standing being tied to MR, there's a simple solution: all or nothing. grind all the MR so it's not an issue or don't grind MR or syndicate so it's not an issue, seeing as this is such a huge issue for you. not great advice, but then DE has a need for a cap and a need for MR to benefit progression. if your argument was more along the lines of remove standing from xp and put all the rep onto missions, i could at least pretend you don't like MR and address the proposed change. but if you say things like this:

14 hours ago, birdobash said:

I think another huge problem that needs to be addressed is just the whole MR system in general, I think it's pretty stupid that MR decides how much standing cap you have and not something else entirely that actually relates to syndicates. Gaining MR is literally just leveling MR fodder, which entails sitting around in ESO with a kraken and other equally bad weapons.

people are gonna interpret that as "i don't want to grind MR fodder anymore, just give me full rep cap without it", especially when you continue to berate the MR system. here's more choice examples since you ignored your own bolded statements i pointed out to you, stripped of context this time since you didn't look at em the first time:

14 hours ago, birdobash said:

Standing caps shouldnt be decided by how well you can laze around in ESO or hydron leveling the plethora of trash tier weapons via teammate affinity,

 

14 hours ago, birdobash said:

I am not interested in crafting and leveling some "one night stand" weapon that I know will never be taken out again after I level it to 30, never mind hundreds of them. Players shouldn't be forced to grind the mastery points from weapons they deem useless to them, such as a basic sybaris when you own both dex sybaris and sybaris prime, or the penta when you have a zarr, things you will have zero use for since you already have things that fill their uses much better, just because you want to raise the amount of standing you are able to gain in a day from syndicates.

so no. you can have an opinion on MR and syndicates, but if i call you out on disliking MR, which effects your opinion on the topic, then if not acknowledge it, at least don't double down by denying it.

TL;DR: don't pretend you don't have a bias against MR, and if you do, at least don't make it so obvious

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