Jump to content

Negative Riven Stats


Recommended Posts

Hello everyone

 

I will try to make this short. Negative riven stats should not exist. Rivens are supposed to make the least used weapons viable while offering a bit more kick (not leaving left out) to the more popular ones. How does a negative stat fit in this idea? When a roll comes up with negative damage, or multishot, or cc... that basically tells me the kuva I just used for that roll was a complete waste. This is different from rolling stats lower than what I aim for. I can settle for a set of stats without a negative, but not as high as I would like, and it wont leave me feeling like I wasted my resource because the roll did not make my weapon worse than what it is without the riven. No riven roll should put red numbers on my weapons. Id like to clarify that im not saying the riven stats should increase with each roll.

If theres a concern that the removal of negative riven stats might take a weapon over the top, then the appropriate riven stat changes should be made. We have already seen weapon dispositions lowered, so something like this shouldnt be a troubling task.

I thing DE can do better than this, cause when you roll with a chance of loss then it becomes a gamble. I find this different from mod farming, or putting up a relic for a prime part im aiming for because the only thing I invest is my time, and in the case of relics I always get a reward that doesnt impact my game in a negative way.

and thats my feedback on the topic. Thank you for reading.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, (PS4)GameflowPRO said:

How does a negative stat fit in this idea

Having a negative stat makes the positive stats stronger.
Let's say you have a riven with 100% damage and 100% multishot. If you had, let's say, -50% impact damage, then the same riven would get something like 150% damage and 150% multishot.

Sure, there are negative stats you never want a gun to have. At the same time there are a lot of negative stats that you want, or you don't care about them.
Sniper Rifles benefit a lot from negative zoom. Negative Impact Damage is great aswell.

Taking away negative stats won't do anything for the riven mechanics. And it won't change the fact, that rivens don't help weak weapons getting more use...

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of people want negative stats on their rivens, it just introduces a variable that makes the desirable roll more difficult to obtain but when rolled properly much more desirable.

Neg impact, neg zoom, neg project speed, etc can make weapons much much better. I like the concept even if it makes getting your desired roll more difficult. Otherwise it will get boring very easily. 

I do agree that kuva is a horrible resource to acquire and in most cases you feel like you wasted hours farming for absolutely nothing. 

I would be happier if for instance, dismantling a riven would give you your kuva back (or a percentage) or something of the likes. Or increasing the kuva resources. 

 

It takes around 1 hours to farm 15-20k kuva in survival and it can go in a matter of 1-2 minutes with absolutely no improvement. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

So... people actually keep rolls with negative damage, multishot, cc...? Cause to me, as I explained, those are "throw away" rolls (in every case so far). A waste of kuva. I understand in a 3 stat roll, one negative means the 2 positives are significantly higher, thats just part of the riven system. I also understand certain negatives, such as zoom, can actually come in handy. What I dont get is the reason why stats like damage can come up as a negative. After all, riven mods were supposed to make less used weapons viable... how does negative damage in a hardly used weapon riven make that weapon better?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, (PS4)GameflowPRO said:

So... people actually keep rolls with negative damage, multishot, cc...? Cause to me, as I explained, those are "throw away" rolls (in every case so far). A waste of kuva. I understand in a 3 stat roll, one negative means the 2 positives are significantly higher, thats just part of the riven system. I also understand certain negatives, such as zoom, can actually come in handy. What I dont get is the reason why stats like damage can come up as a negative. After all, riven mods were supposed to make less used weapons viable... how does negative damage in a hardly used weapon riven make that weapon better?

Because there was no thought put into the riven rolling system. Its about as dumb as you can get. Honestly, +zoom should be a negative and -zoom should be positive. The current zoom level on unscoped guns is already a little much. Why add more and make it unbearable. And as you said, some stats just should not be in the negative pool. Honestly, the whole thing needs a overhaul. Currently it's no different to playing slot machine. Just keep pulling that lever until you hit the jackpot. 

Edited by tychondus
Link to post
Share on other sites

No, most people don't keep negative damage, multishot, ect. But not all negative stats are created equal, just like not all positive stats are created equal. I'm just as likely to roll a riven with only positives and still have none of the stats be useful for the gun in question.

The riven system definitely has a lot of problems, but negative stats aren't the perpetrator.

Edited by rapt0rman
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Negative stats are usefull due to several reasons, getting rid of certain stats to make others more viable (like negative impact damage so slash is more predominant), you have them to increase positive stats and you have them to regulate beneficial stats into a more acceptable one, i can give an example of less firerate to a weapon that fires way to fast.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Negative Zoom and negative Impact are best Riven waifu stats. Especially if negative impact exceeds 100%.

There can also be some validity for +Weapon Recoil based on what weapon it is, such as Euphona Prime or Exergis.

Edited by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23
Link to post
Share on other sites

I figured if negative stats didnt exist the goal of making less used weapons better would be achieved just fine. Granted, stats like positive zoom can be terrible, though it can still be managed with hip fire. I just dont understand why negative stats that can cripple a weapon, and waste kuva, exist in a system thats supposed to make less used weapons better. 

I suppose there wasnt much thought (as mentioned above), or effort, put into this system as any stat can roll as a positive or negative. Just a simple implementation. The idea of buffing less used weapons seems to be out of focus... anyway.

Well, I appreciate everyones feedback. Thank you, and wish you all good riven rolls!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...
On 2019-02-04 at 3:48 AM, (PSN)GameflowPRO said:

I figured if negative stats didnt exist the goal of making less used weapons better would be achieved just fine. Granted, stats like positive zoom can be terrible, though it can still be managed with hip fire. I just dont understand why negative stats that can cripple a weapon, and waste kuva, exist in a system thats supposed to make less used weapons better. 

I suppose there wasnt much thought (as mentioned above), or effort, put into this system as any stat can roll as a positive or negative. Just a simple implementation. The idea of buffing less used weapons seems to be out of focus... anyway.

Well, I appreciate everyones feedback. Thank you, and wish you all good riven rolls!

 

ima make this short negative damage is good for certain types impact and puncture u want a neg slash you want postive so it will proc more on the enemy since slash procs bleed

Edited by (PSN)briggan33-_-
Link to post
Share on other sites

Some negative riven stats can be harmless for the weapon they modify, or can even be beneficial. 

But now I’m curious: is there any conceivable circumstance under which a roll with -Damage or -Multishot would ever be worth keeping? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, qyvk said:

Some negative riven stats can be harmless for the weapon they modify, or can even be beneficial. 

But now I’m curious: is there any conceivable circumstance under which a roll with -Damage or -Multishot would ever be worth keeping? 

I used to use a -dmg javlok with pure heat to do self damage to ember for her old passive. Since the explosive changes and ember rework I see no use for those negatives.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-02-03 at 9:47 AM, Jujuwa said:

It is possible to have no negative on a riven, but remember that if you have a negative then the positives are buffed.

All in all, balance is the main goal.

But there in lies the Rub....

Certain negatives render the Weapon completely unusable....

Negative Multishot can cause your weapon to fire blanks and Negative Projectile Flight Speed can cause your Bullets to get stuck in Mid Air.... The fact that these Extremes can only happen to happen weapons with High Riven Dispositions... Which are supposedly the the ones that the whole system was intended to Salvage just goes to show just Broken the whole thing is....

It doesn't work...

I suppose it can be fixed.... But I'd rather they just remove it.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Lutesque said:

But there in lies the Rub....

Certain negatives render the Weapon completely unusable....

Negative Multishot can cause your weapon to fire blanks and Negative Projectile Flight Speed can cause your Bullets to get stuck in Mid Air.... The fact that these Extremes can only happen to happen weapons with High Riven Dispositions... Which are supposedly the the ones that the whole system was intended to Salvage just goes to show just Broken the whole thing is....

It doesn't work...

I suppose it can be fixed.... But I'd rather they just remove it.

 

If they remove it, then everyone has the same exact build as everyone else. Thats boring. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, parttimeparty said:

If they remove it, then everyone has the same exact build as everyone else. Thats boring. 

And you think Rivens fix that problem ? 😐 People are going to roll for stats that make homogeneous builds anyway.

If build variety is the issue then why not look at the source of the problem instead ? The modding system.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

For the most part I totally agree with OP. Having a riven that can make your weapon WORSE feels like a big F-you. (and ya'll who are saying BuT nEgaTiVE sTAts MAkE thE oTHeR StAts HiGhEr, yeah that's just what DE decided, they can change it as they please, it's not like this is some unchangeable rule or something inherent to the concept). On the other hand there are some rare situations where negatives are actually good. An example is -Zoom, which is actually nice for snipers, or -mag capacity, which is actually good on Vectis for various reasons. And of course there is actually the very annoying case of -Recoil (which is counted as a positive stat, so...wtf DE, make up your mind.)

Really they should just remove any stat that is NEVER good (-dmg, -crit, -status, -combo chance, -combo duration, etc.) and just include any potentially 'good negative' stats along with the other positive stats. Suggesting that's unbalanced is kind of dumb since the ideal roll has a negative that doesn't effect anything useful on the weapon to begin with (for example, -slash dmg on a weapon that doesn't even have slash damage). There's no balance in that situation, the negative might as well not exist. It's just a way to screw you over and keep you rolling the riven to increase the grind.

Even removing all the 'always bad' negatives leave plenty of room for grind. Like if I get +impact, +status duration, +combo duration, I'm still gonna be like "Ugh, trash," and even desirable stats can be good or bad depending on the weapon but at least you wouldn't have -dmg or -atk spd ON TOP OF THAT. For example, I recently I rolled +crit + crit damage (which is usually HIGHLY desirable, as ya'll know)...for a Deconstructor Riven. IT HAS 0 CRIT + ANY % CRIT IS STILL 0%. It was a useless stat, but at least it's not making my weapon worse, just not any better (that roll also had +status, which was good and -atkspd which was bad, so...well 99% of my rolls have been bad so I've still got this one somehow, even after casually dropping 20k kuva into it the other day).

Anyways, grind wouldn't go away if you changed the system by removing always bad stats, you can still get kuva-wasting rolls, but at least it wouldn't feel like you got punched in the gut every time you rolled your riven and got horrible negatives every other roll ON TOP of the lousy positives.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2021-01-15 at 6:10 PM, (PSN)M00n_Slippers said:

For the most part I totally agree with OP. Having a riven that can make your weapon WORSE feels like a big F-you. (and ya'll who are saying BuT nEgaTiVE sTAts MAkE thE oTHeR StAts HiGhEr, yeah that's just what DE decided, they can change it as they please, it's not like this is some unchangeable rule or something inherent to the concept). On the other hand there are some rare situations where negatives are actually good. An example is -Zoom, which is actually nice for snipers, or -mag capacity, which is actually good on Vectis for various reasons. And of course there is actually the very annoying case of -Recoil (which is counted as a positive stat, so...wtf DE, make up your mind.)

Really they should just remove any stat that is NEVER good (-dmg, -crit, -status, -combo chance, -combo duration, etc.) and just include any potentially 'good negative' stats along with the other positive stats. Suggesting that's unbalanced is kind of dumb since the ideal roll has a negative that doesn't effect anything useful on the weapon to begin with (for example, -slash dmg on a weapon that doesn't even have slash damage). There's no balance in that situation, the negative might as well not exist. It's just a way to screw you over and keep you rolling the riven to increase the grind.

Even removing all the 'always bad' negatives leave plenty of room for grind. Like if I get +impact, +status duration, +combo duration, I'm still gonna be like "Ugh, trash," and even desirable stats can be good or bad depending on the weapon but at least you wouldn't have -dmg or -atk spd ON TOP OF THAT. For example, I recently I rolled +crit + crit damage (which is usually HIGHLY desirable, as ya'll know)...for a Deconstructor Riven. IT HAS 0 CRIT + ANY % CRIT IS STILL 0%. It was a useless stat, but at least it's not making my weapon worse, just not any better (that roll also had +status, which was good and -atkspd which was bad, so...well 99% of my rolls have been bad so I've still got this one somehow, even after casually dropping 20k kuva into it the other day).

Anyways, grind wouldn't go away if you changed the system by removing always bad stats, you can still get kuva-wasting rolls, but at least it wouldn't feel like you got punched in the gut every time you rolled your riven and got horrible negatives every other roll ON TOP of the lousy positives.

Very logical. Something tells me DE won't understand. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

this whole riven system is weird and throws everything out of wack.

some of my rivens have all positives on them for good weapons but nobody will buy them because they don't have a negative because its makes the positives stronger which is kinda dumb. so if i have a riven with crit chance and damage alone its trash compared to crit chance,dmg and  -something thats stupid. having no negative should make it more worth while to use.  

rivens shouldn't even exist for the already strong weapons, rivens should've been for the weapons don't need improvement that could be used more not the 1% that are already strong. 

i have rivens for rubico crit chance & damage nobody will buy because of no negative 

i have riven for hek with 3 positives nobody wants because no negative 

but i have rivens that have 2 positives and a negative nobody will buy because they aren't high enough stats aren't the right stats or not a top tier weapon 

seriously WTF is wrong with the community. so only weapons like nukor, bramma bubonic and a few others people wants rivens for with god rolls and they want them CHEAP as well. this is frustrating as a whole and DE should reevaluate rivens and fix this problem at its core.

i kinda thought when rivens first came out they would be a good alternative or additive to builds so they could fill in a mod slot.

i'd honestly prefer if they removed things like crit chance, crit dmg and other things and instead put more focus on elemental damage so you have say your 60/60 mods, 90 element mods and rivens with whatever combination of elements so if i had a riven with eletric & toxin i'd have a really strong corrosive build to wipe out steel path grineer PDQ

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...