Revenant, The True Eidolon Warframe (Rework idea)

[Alselein]

Hello there

As the title suggests, this post serves as a way for me to share my ideas on how Revenant could be improved to better fit his Eidolon theme. In my opinion, Revenant is good in his current state, I picked him up 2 weeks ago and after watching and reading many reviews about him, I expected a pretty meh warframe. To my suprise though, I very quickly fell in love with his Eidolon theme and looks, also his 2 and 4 are very unique and satisfying to use abilities, and I haven't changed frames since then. My problem is with his "identity crisis".I am aware that he was to be Vlad, a "vampire" warframe and got changed right before release to be more Eiodolon-y, and honestly this really shows. 

Knowing all of this, let's clarify that I would like him to become a proper, full-on Eidolon power wielding warframe.To achieve this, I came up with an ability kit for him, that mostly replaces/changes his vampire abilities, and is very similar to the Eidolon's that we fight on the Planes. PS.: The exact values and synergies with mods for the abilities are not something I thought a lot about, this is just a concept, and if for some miraculous reason this would be looked at or accepted by DE, I'm sure the team would do a better job balancing them than I would.

So here are my ideas: 

-Let's start with the passive. While it sounds cool, disabling enemies when Revenant's shield is depleted, his passive does barely anything in reality due to it's lackluster range and his 2 being recastable. I think in such a life threatening situation, it should be able to do much more. What I thought about is that he keeps the shield depletion mechanic, but instead of a small knockdown wave, the effect would look and sound like the Eidolon's Energy Spike ability, having much greater range(like 15-20m) than the previous passive and applying a radion proc to all enemies caught in the radius. This would make him feel much more like an Eidolon, while also crowd controlling the enemies that are around him, which is the point of his vampire abilties currently.

-His first ability I would replace from enthralling enemy units to summoning 7 spectral(meant for their visual apperance) Vomvalysts at max level, with a health bar attached to them so that they can be damaged and killed. These Vomvalysts would also be able to attack with the regular projectile based attack that they use against us on the Planes. This would also have the summon something upon death mechanic like Enthrall does with the pillars, but instead of the small pillars, a vertical laser beam, similar to that of the Gantulyst, could emerge from their bodies that slowly chases enemies therefore not requireing them to walk into it or being mostly useless in open world areas. The ability would have further synergies with his 3. This change would also contribute a lot to Revenant feeling and playing like something that is actually in possesion of the powers of an Eidolon.

-Mesmer Skin as I mentioned above is a really a satisfying ability to use, while also being very good and fitting the Eidolon theme. No changes needed.

-Reave, I'd leave it as it is since DE changed it a lot, so I figured that they would like Revenant to have this ability. The only things I would add are: the synergie with the new Vomvalyst based 1, where Revenant would grant 100% lifesteal to them, so they heal him, or could gain overshields based on their attacks if he uses Reave on a Vomvalyst that he spawned(not sure which one would be better from a design prespective), and could also grant allies additional radiation damage if he Reaves through them, but the ally part is something that could totally be an augment for the ability, that way Revenant could contribute to Eidolon hunts and would fit his lore even more as their hunter.

-And finally his 4. This ability was also changed a lot, I'd also leave it as it is, DE clearly doesn't want the frame to be all about his 4. Maybe some aiming property would be nice so that it would be able to kill enemies that are on a different elevation than Revenant.

For me if Revenant had all these things at his disposal, he would without a doubt become my favorite warframe to use. The changes I came up with would make him much more survivable even on higher levels(tanky frames are best frames), while also being able to decently crowd controll and deal good damage with his 4, while properly fitting his Eidolon theme.

The obvious intention behind this post is of course for people to notice it. I would like to hear feedback/opinions on it, and maybe someday DE will shape Revenant up to provide a fully fledged Eidolon experience. Also please excuse any spelling/grammar mistakes, I am not a native english speaker, but I try my hardest.

 

 

[-QUILL_PETER-]

He's not an Eidolon frame. He's a Revenant frame that got tainted by an Eidolon. Hence, Revenant.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

What even what? You come in saying you want Rev reworked into a true Eidolon frame yet you change next to nothing about him?

The activation of his passive is bad, changing what it does by a tiny bit doesn’t make it better. He should just have Adaptation that only works up to like 50%. If your going to keep Mesmer skin then it needs so many more charges.

You got my hopes up as someone else who understands that Rev needs to be changed, and you let me down.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, -QUILL_PETER- said:

He's not an Eidolon frame. He's a Revenant frame that got tainted by an Eidolon. Hence, Revenant.

THEN WHY DOES HE LOOK LIKE AN EIDOLON!

[IceColdHawk]

27 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If your going to keep Mesmer skin then it needs so many more charges.

Not at all. You just need to put strength mods in.

If you buff it so that you can have 30 charges while being able to recast them and while 175% efficiency and Zenurik are things for infinite energy supply which means you're literally god and don't even have to pay any sort of attention then you have created a broken frame that's just bound to be nerfed.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

27 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Not at all. You just need to put strength mods in.

If you buff it so that you can have 30 charges while being able to recast them and while 175% efficiency and Zenurik are things for infinite energy supply which means you're literally god and don't even have to pay any sort of attention then you have created a broken frame that's just bound to be nerfed.

Why shouldn’t an Eidolon frame be a little on the “too strong” side?

[Dishonored]

no one really talk about this but
revenant 3 scale with power strength


at 260% power strength revenant can kill any kind of enemies (with exception of some sentient and boss) 
by casting entrall first before reave

[IceColdHawk]

27 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Why shouldn’t an Eidolon frame be a little on the “too strong” side?

Why should he? Lore shouldn't take priority over game balance.

[Alselein]

1 hour ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

He's not an Eidolon frame. He's a Revenant frame that got tainted by an Eidolon. Hence, Revenant.

I don't see your point. Me referring to him as an Eidolon frame is just a simpler way of saying Eidolon themed warframe.

[Alselein]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

What even what? You come in saying you want Rev reworked into a true Eidolon frame yet you change next to nothing about him?

The activation of his passive is bad, changing what it does by a tiny bit doesn’t make it better. He should just have Adaptation that only works up to like 50%. If your going to keep Mesmer skin then it needs so many more charges.

You got my hopes up as someone else who understands that Rev needs to be changed, and you let me down.

Your disappointment comes from the difference in our opinions I presume. My logic with the rework was trying to stay as close as possible to what Revenant originally turned out to be. I've read so many threads where people basically just wanted Rev to be buffed through the roof. I don't want that, my rework is not for balance purposes, rather a theme touch-up.

[Urlan]

2 hours ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

He's not an Eidolon frame. He's a Revenant frame that got tainted by an Eidolon. Hence, Revenant.

To be perfectly fair, Revenant is an Eidolon warframe, he has very little to do with 'Revenants' in his actual theme if we don't go through Eidolons which represent and undead aspect of a greater Sentient. His powers should more closely reflect an Eidolon, as that is what he is completely themed around. His original moniker in the quest, nickname wise, was the Warden so perhaps one could argue that he was a Warden warframe that got tainted by an Eidolon - something that Eidolons have shown no ability to do outside the quest lore-wise, and in fact Plague Star and other quests in the game suggest that the Sentient in general have no such ability and instead Sentient and Technocyte are incompatible.

[Stygie]

Let me explain this too you people

rev·e·nant

/ˈrevəˌnäN,-nənt/

noun

1. a person who has returned, especially supposedly from the dead.

   "he was three hundred years old, a terrible living revenant"

This is the definition of what a Revenant is which makes sense if you look at his kit. Remember he was only "tainted" by Eidolon energy not "taken" by it. So he his abilities are Eidolon "effected" not purely thus. Furthermore, his kit is fine. May i remind you that passives were not intended to be a huge game mechanic but rather augmenting to the game in small ways so stop asking for passive changes. (See Rhino passive: the most usefull passive in the game")Furthermore, Revenant is well designed. His 2 makes him invulnerable, even if tick exsist, for it stuns the target making the unable to shoot. His Thralls instantly grab agro, even better than Nyx and he has more, and take all the damage for him. It also gives him space to recast his two. Reave os absolutely broken. Listen to this, it does PERCENTAGE hp damage PRECENTAGE! Which means Revenant has massive scalling damage into the end game especially if you get used to the cycle of making Tralls and killing them. He just doesn't die hence his undying theme. His ultimate is the most Eidolon think about him copying the Gantulyst attack and even thag the only change whould be the ability to aim the beams but the funny think is, Revenant plays like Mesa. Press 2, 3 to win and occasionally 1. There abilites let the stand and shoot and they have high dosing abilites they can use if need be. Prehaps you don't actually play Revenant or tried to play him because the last time I checked played times on people calling for buffs, they had little to no playtime in the warframe.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Alselein said:

Your disappointment comes from the difference in our opinions I presume. My logic with the rework was trying to stay as close as possible to what Revenant originally turned out to be. I've read so many threads where people basically just wanted Rev to be buffed through the roof. I don't want that, my rework is not for balance purposes, rather a theme touch-up.

So why did you call your rework the “True Eidolon Frame” If you aren’t even going to give him actual Eidolon abilities?

[Alselein]

34 minutes ago, Lucian_Adrion said:

Let me explain this too you people

rev·e·nant

/ˈrevəˌnäN,-nənt/

noun

1. a person who has returned, especially supposedly from the dead.

   "he was three hundred years old, a terrible living revenant"

This is the definition of what a Revenant is which makes sense if you look at his kit. Remember he was only "tainted" by Eidolon energy not "taken" by it. So he his abilities are Eidolon "effected" not purely thus. Furthermore, his kit is fine. May i remind you that passives were not intended to be a huge game mechanic but rather augmenting to the game in small ways so stop asking for passive changes. (See Rhino passive: the most usefull passive in the game")Furthermore, Revenant is well designed. His 2 makes him invulnerable, even if tick exsist, for it stuns the target making the unable to shoot. His Thralls instantly grab agro, even better than Nyx and he has more, and take all the damage for him. It also gives him space to recast his two. Reave os absolutely broken. Listen to this, it does PERCENTAGE hp damage PRECENTAGE! Which means Revenant has massive scalling damage into the end game especially if you get used to the cycle of making Tralls and killing them. He just doesn't die hence his undying theme. His ultimate is the most Eidolon think about him copying the Gantulyst attack and even thag the only change whould be the ability to aim the beams but the funny think is, Revenant plays like Mesa. Press 2, 3 to win and occasionally 1. There abilites let the stand and shoot and they have high dosing abilites they can use if need be. Prehaps you don't actually play Revenant or tried to play him because the last time I checked played times on people calling for buffs, they had little to no playtime in the warframe.

I have stated at the begining that I recognise that he is a good warframe. My issue is not damage or survivability or scaling, rather his kit theme being torn between vampire and Eidolon themed concepts. He just doesn't feel whole to me. Also reading through my ideas one might notice that there is no mention of need for buffs or anything. This is just a little tweak to his abilities to better resemble Eidolon powers(which is the theme I'd like him to be wholly based around). I've only been playing him for the past 2 weeks, 4-5 hours every day doing all sorts of mission types.

[Alselein]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

So why did you call your rework the “True Eidolon Frame” If you aren’t even going to give him actual Eidolon abilities?

Whenever you fight and Eidolon, Vomvalysts fight alongside them, this is literally what I changed Enthrall into. The laser beams after their deaths are something that you see in the Gantulyst fight. This is the only ability I changed to be more Eidolon-y. Oh and the passive to be like the Energy Spike, another Eidolon ability. After this, I am curious what would you think is an Eidolon ability?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, Alselein said:

Whenever you fight and Eidolon, Vomvalysts fight alongside them, this is literally what I changed Enthrall into. The laser beams after their deaths are something that you see in the Gantulyst fight. This is the only ability I changed to be more Eidolon-y. Oh and the passive to be like the Energy Spike, another Eidolon ability. After this, I am curious what would you think is an Eidolon ability?

Lasers and explosions. As well as the sentient damage adaptation being used in more than just his 4. Make him a tanky, debuffer, DPS frame.

Edited February 3, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Scruffel]

2 hours ago, Alselein said:

I have stated at the begining that I recognise that he is a good warframe. My issue is not damage or survivability or scaling, rather his kit theme being torn between vampire and Eidolon themed concepts. He just doesn't feel whole to me. Also reading through my ideas one might notice that there is no mention of need for buffs or anything. This is just a little tweak to his abilities to better resemble Eidolon powers(which is the theme I'd like him to be wholly based around). I've only been playing him for the past 2 weeks, 4-5 hours every day doing all sorts of mission types.

You have to understand that Warframe has a lot of unorthodox characters/archetypes.

There's always some sort of thing that disconnects a Warframe from their original theme or design, take for example, Atlas. He's meant to be the 'brawler' frame,  yet he mostly has rock-themed abilities to the point where even his punching move still has rock/earth aspects to it. Heck, the tagline for the game is still "Ninjas Play Free" when it's very clear that like half of the cast would not be considered ninjas at all (although a lot of them do at least have an small aspects that can make be considered as one but that's besides the point). 

Revenant is just another sort of unorthodox theme, having both aspects of vampire and Eidolon, even though he's mainly the latter. In fact, his 'Vania' Helmet is still vampire themed because of it's name and the design (noticeable 'fangs'). 

[Urlan]

3 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said:

Let me explain this too you people

rev·e·nant

/ˈrevəˌnäN,-nənt/

noun

1. a person who has returned, especially supposedly from the dead.

   "he was three hundred years old, a terrible living revenant"

This is the definition of what a Revenant is which makes sense if you look at his kit. Remember he was only "tainted" by Eidolon energy not "taken" by it. So he his abilities are Eidolon "effected" not purely thus. Furthermore, his kit is fine. May i remind you that passives were not intended to be a huge game mechanic but rather augmenting to the game in small ways so stop asking for passive changes. (See Rhino passive: the most usefull passive in the game")Furthermore, Revenant is well designed. His 2 makes him invulnerable, even if tick exsist, for it stuns the target making the unable to shoot. His Thralls instantly grab agro, even better than Nyx and he has more, and take all the damage for him. It also gives him space to recast his two. Reave os absolutely broken. Listen to this, it does PERCENTAGE hp damage PRECENTAGE! Which means Revenant has massive scalling damage into the end game especially if you get used to the cycle of making Tralls and killing them. He just doesn't die hence his undying theme. His ultimate is the most Eidolon think about him copying the Gantulyst attack and even thag the only change whould be the ability to aim the beams but the funny think is, Revenant plays like Mesa. Press 2, 3 to win and occasionally 1. There abilites let the stand and shoot and they have high dosing abilites they can use if need be. Prehaps you don't actually play Revenant or tried to play him because the last time I checked played times on people calling for buffs, they had little to no playtime in the warframe.

And pray, how did an Eidolon 'taint' a warframe when Plague Star establishes that Sentient energy, not just that Eidolon in this case; is poisonous to Technocyte and when a warframe is filled with active Void energy it is poisonous to the Sentient? I am aware of this being the official DE explanation, but its one contradicted by game lore so far. Currently Revenant's move-set doesn't reflect an Eidolon or a Revenant, which are not known for their mind control abilities to say the least. Lasers sure! If we are talking about the warframe being reconfigured or merged with an Eidolon as they make heavy use of a laser cannon. None however spin while doing a laser light show or have Hunhow damage adaptation which is not shown by Eidolons and is not said to be a feature of the Sentient the Eidolons were made from. Creatively, Revenant, the Eidolon warframe is not representative of either returned undead or Eidolon creatures in warframe outside his own merging and take-over by an Eidolon, as per the game.

If we wanted to have a laser attack that would make sense with the Eidolons in general, going an Exalted Arm Cannon would make perfect sense, as all three have this feature. No Eidolon has the ability to take over organic based lifeforms, in fact no Sentient has been shown to directly have this capability; which is why Infested tech and low-technology were even used against the high-tech AI enemies. If one would want to make Danse Macabre similar to the Gantulyst Skyfall attack, one would need to again make it related to a laser cannon shot into space that summons down a scourge of lasers from a high sky-point, rather than spinning fingertip lasers. For a better comparison though still not the same, combine Hunhow's melee and ranged shards, which are again from a different Sentient source. You would have the melee spin that Conculsyst like performing while having the core laser spin that Battlyst like performing, this has nothing to do with Eidolons, but is a better comparison without stretching. His Reave move at best pulls from the energy charge melee slam attack of the Vomvalyst Sentient, but not performed in any capacity by his thematic donator.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, Scruffel said:

You have to understand that Warframe has a lot of unorthodox characters/archetypes.

There's always some sort of thing that disconnects a Warframe from their original theme or design, take for example, Atlas. He's meant to be the 'brawler' frame,  yet he mostly has rock-themed abilities to the point where even his punching move still has rock/earth aspects to it. Heck, the tagline for the game is still "Ninjas Play Free" when it's very clear that like half of the cast would not be considered ninjas at all (although a lot of them do at least have an small aspects that can make be considered as one but that's besides the point). 

Revenant is just another sort of unorthodox theme, having both aspects of vampire and Eidolon, even though he's mainly the latter. In fact, his 'Vania' Helmet is still vampire themed because of it's name and the design (noticeable 'fangs'). 

But rock and brawler themes work well together. They just make sense together. Also Atlas was a completely new concept. Revenant was based off an already established series of enemies, so making a large part of his abilities completely disregard that and go in a completely different direction doesn’t make any sense.

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

But rock and brawler themes work well together. They just make sense together. Also Atlas was a completely new concept. Revenant was based off an already established series of enemies, so making a large part of his abilities completely disregard that and go in a completely different direction doesn’t make any sense.

That is a very good point.

[Scruffel]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

But rock and brawler themes work well together. They just make sense together. Also Atlas was a completely new concept. Revenant was based off an already established series of enemies, so making a large part of his abilities completely disregard that and go in a completely different direction doesn’t make any sense.

Uhh, where was I saying that rock and brawler themes don't go together? I was saying in general the fact that Atlas is a combination of the two themes, making him an unorthodox brawler.  And Atlas technically isn't a completely new concept, for Warframe sure, but there have existed many different types of rock elemental users or brawlers in other games (and equally combinations of both). 

Also Revenant doesn't disregard the Eidolon theme to a great extent at all, mostly because there are clearly still there within some of his abilities. Just because he doesn't fully follow the theme to a T doesn't mean he's not disregarding it at all. That's why I'm saying he's unorthodox; he's not completely one thing or the other. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 minutes ago, Scruffel said:

Uhh, where was I saying that rock and brawler themes don't go together? I was saying in general the fact that Atlas is a combination of the two themes, making him an unorthodox brawler.  And Atlas technically isn't a completely new concept, for Warframe sure, but there have existed many different types of rock elemental users or brawlers in other games (and equally combinations of both). 

Also Revenant doesn't disregard the Eidolon theme to a great extent at all, mostly because there are clearly still there within some of his abilities. Just because he doesn't fully follow the theme to a T doesn't mean he's not disregarding it at all. That's why I'm saying he's unorthodox; he's not completely one thing or the other. 

You clearly weren’t there for when he first released, or even when they first showed him off and he had a different 4. It was clear that the person in charge of his development didn’t care at all for making his abilities anything like what the Eidolons can do. Later on he got Danse Macabre after Steve said he needed something that was actually Eidolon related in a frame that looks like an Eidolon, and they changed reaves appearance from a really tacky looking wall of smoke into a vombalysts dash animation.

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You clearly weren’t there for when he first released, or even when they first showed him off and he had a different 4. It was clear that the person in charge of his development didn’t care at all for making his abilities anything like what the Eidolons can do. Later on he got Danse Macabre after Steve said he needed something that was actually Eidolon related in a frame that looks like an Eidolon, and they changed reaves appearance from a really tacky looking wall of smoke into a vombalysts dash animation.

Yeah! His original teased theme was shown back with the final teases and art showcase for Plains of Eidolon, along with that flash nikana but at the time, he was just called "Eidolon Warframe". We were told that his 'vampire' theme was a push by DE Rebecca who loves vampire stuff to death, and before Revenant's release, DE Steve said that the mind-thralls idea wasn't 'Eidolon enough' and asked for lasers to be worked in. The result was sorta a mismatch, some ideas from both mixed together with neither fully resembling the original separate themes. At least "Garuda" now embodies a more obvious on the service vampire for that theme (though I still say her name should be Carmilla!) while leaving Revenant to embrace a more Eidolon themed ability and passive existance.

[Scruffel]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You clearly weren’t there for when he first released, or even when they first showed him off and he had a different 4. It was clear that the person in charge of his development didn’t care at all for making his abilities anything like what the Eidolons can do. Later on he got Danse Macabre after Steve said he needed something that was actually Eidolon related in a frame that looks like an Eidolon, and they changed reaves appearance from a really tacky looking wall of smoke into a vombalysts dash animation.

I was actually getting back to Warframe when he was just revealed so yes, I know about his original design and theme intent. It still doesn't really change the fact he's still mostly Eidolon-inspired to this day. 

Again, my point still stands that's he just has an orthodox theme,  similar to all other Warframes. 

[nslay]

Please don't change Mesmer skin! I was finally able to progress through some nodes in Aten to Mot solo because of his awesome Mesmer skin... The trick is to be sprinting and killing at the same time! It's harder for enemies to shoot a moving target! Then a stack count of 6 is actually pretty darn good! If you add in Intensify and Augur Secrets, then it's somewhere between 9-10 (so 10 hits). If you think Mesmer skin is bad, then you're probably just a target standing in one place when you play this game. I also farmed Vor in Mot for up to 20 minutes without dying once... I think that's pretty good considering I couldn't even do Aten solo with Rhino (I don't have any of his special mods though)!

And the passive is underappreciated! By default, up to 6 enemies are rendered disabled... that means 6 are not shooting at you anymore (9-10 with Augur Secrets and Intensify)! Add some thralls and you can revive all your dying team mates in Mot safely. Or Danse Macabre to clear them all out to revive your dying team mates in Mot.

Revenant is plenty powerful for almost everything... except fighting Eidolons! He's really bad at Eidolons despite his lore! Please add or change some of his abilities to be useful for disabling/hurting Teralyst or protecting team mates or lures.