Limbo Rift Surge: Actually a useless ability

[CazadorDeWulf]

In the devstream previewing the Limbo rework, in which they've since backpedaled on some of his intended ability behaviors(projectiles stopping mid-flight), they mentioned Rift Surge creating "mini-cataclysms" and all I know is that this certainly never came to be. Maybe it did idk but it's not the case now. Rift Surge performs an unreliable(as in bugged) Radial Banish, which I'm sorry, that just makes everything more confusing and benefits Limbo + teammates 0. Banish itself is annoying, because the visual indicator is unreliable. Not just that, but there is no real benefit to "radially banishing" enemies to the rift, when Cataclysm exists...

[YUNoJump]

Personally, I use it on enemies near the edge of Cataclysm to pull them back into the Rift when Cataclysm shrinks. The biggest problem IMO with Cataclysm is that frozen enemies will leave the Rift as it shrinks, but Rift Surge fixes that entirely, and can even pull extra enemies into the Rift who are near the edge as well. It's not a USELESS ability, it just pales in comparison to a massive-radius bubble that makes Tenno inside functionally invincible and completely disables any enemy inside.

Overall it's a bit bland compared to the rest of Limbo, but the last thing Limbo needs right now is a buff.

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

24 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

but the last thing Limbo needs right now is a buff

Why not? His only purpose in a team right now is as a bubble slave and to revive teammates, a rework or small buff so he isn't instakilled outside the rift wouldn't hurt

[PsiWarp]

All it does is drag enemies back into the Rift, and its design revolves around having Rift Torrent equipped since the damage bonus is kept when the surge jumps to material-bound enemies. It's half an ability from my point of view. It's also an ability that doesn't work at all without first using another.

[0verridden]

On 2019-02-04 at 11:51 AM, CazadorDeWulf said:

performs an unreliable(as in bugged) Radial Banish

If you follow the typical small cataclysm advice, sure, pretty much everything in Limbo's kit becomes useless then. Radial Banish can be brought up to a banish radius of 14m (10m from my experience to have some efficiency mods together with range mods).

Under abilities, look at your banish radius for rift surge. It is quite a small value unless you build for ranged limbo.

 

On 2019-02-04 at 12:39 PM, YUNoJump said:

it just pales in comparison to a massive-radius bubble that makes Tenno inside functionally invincible and completely disables any enemy inside

I do not know what range build you are using, but please have a look at your rift surge radius value in your abilities display.

Assuming you're not using a duration build, let rift surge trigger it's radial banish and continuously recast it (you're gonna need efficiency to pull this off comfortably without a net loss in energy without killing mobs inside the rift). Let me know how rift surge 'pales in comparison' to cataclysm.

Just to put things into perspective. With a max range build at 280%, cataclysm has a radius of 44.8m, Rift surge radius cast is 70m. So if you continuously rift surge banished enemies and let it keep dragging more enemies as banish wears off, you can gather mobs up to a 70m + 14m(additional banish radius of outermost ring of mobs when surged).  

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by 0verridden

[CazadorDeWulf]

I think I'll pass on building max range Limbo just for the sake of making Rift Surge even somewhat effective in what it does. I already have +range, by the way, so it's not like I'm so stupid that I cannot see what I have build with my own mods...

[ligonare]

I dunno. Like many people here suggested, radial banish for a maxed range build using 3 is quite an effective cc.

My standard combo is 4 > 2 > 3 the caught enemies > 4 to cc nearly every enemy in the room if i cannot afford to keep the bubble up either due to my allies ire or if there are nullifiers that can negate my cataclysm.

[(PSN)tissot555]

7 hours ago, 0verridden said:

If you follow the typical small cataclysm advice, sure, pretty much everything in Limbo's kit becomes useless then. Radial Banish can be brought up to a banish radius of 14m (10m from my experience to have some efficiency mods together with range mods).

Under abilities, look at your banish radius for rift surge. It is quite a small value unless you build for ranged limbo.

 

I do not know what range build you are using, but please have a look at your rift surge radius value in your abilities display.

Assuming you're not using a duration build, let rift surge trigger it's radial banish and continuously recast it (you're gonna need efficiency to pull this off comfortably without a net loss in energy without killing mobs inside the rift). Let me know how rift surge 'pales in comparison' to cataclysm.

Just to put things into perspective. With a max range build at 280%, cataclysm has a radius of 44.8m, Rift surge radius cast is 70m. So if you continuously rift surge banished enemies and let it keep dragging more enemies as banish wears off, you can gather mobs up to a 70m + 14m(additional banish radius of outermost ring of mobs when surged).  

 

Stop telling people to play limbo this way. Seriously. Stop. It.

[0verridden]

Well it all depends on what mission type you are doing ...

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

Stop telling people to play limbo this way. Seriously. Stop. It.

Stop telling me what to tell other people. Seriously. Stop. It.

How do you do Hieracon in Pluto then? In a mission type where defending a weak objective is essential, rift surge is the mvp. Not simply cataclysm. You WILL mismanage mobs and get your objective killed.

I understand your worry. Really. I do. But it feels rather pointless to tell me to stop without a possible alternative.

8 hours ago, 0verridden said:

So if you continuously rift surge banished enemies and let it keep dragging more enemies as banish wears off, you CAN gather mobs up to a 70m + 14m(additional banish radius of outermost ring of mobs when surged).  

Also, you quoted my entire post but I am not sure you read everything at all. Its purpose was to highlight what Rift surge CAN do, not what you should be doing in every single mission. 

Let me highlight that in case for some reason someone reading this genuinely thinks freezing every mob under the Sun for a survival/exterminate/defense mission is good. It isn't. Please don't do it.

4 hours ago, CazadorDeWulf said:

making Rift Surge even somewhat effective

Didn't mean anything by it. I am actually curious what your rift surge banish radius is.  You don't need a max range build. But a decent range limbo with rift surge generally maintained WILL freeze everything your mobs very well in a mission where you need it. (again in case I was not clear. Pleaaaase do not do this in a mission where you have to kill stuff, or where stuff is low level. Not helpful. Only in cases where you need to defend something weak and everything basically can one shot you or stagger you to your death)

I was merely replying to explain why rift surge can be so useful. It is genuinely a very useful cc skill. At the very least, maintaining rift surge initially in your bubble at least helps maintain your mobs within in case a nullie pops it. And if you maintain that cast, the mobs surrounding your shrinking bubble can largely be managed despite it being out of it's range. This is especially helpful for high level excav missions.

Lots of people find Rift surge useless. Just claiming that it really isn't. It's an awesome cc. But nothing else to be fair. Can't count on it for a decent damage buff based off of enemy level or armour or anything after all 😕

Edited February 5, 2019 by 0verridden

[YUNoJump]

On 2019-02-04 at 3:05 PM, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

Why not? His only purpose in a team right now is as a bubble slave and to revive teammates, a rework or small buff so he isn't instakilled outside the rift wouldn't hurt

The bubble comprises his 2 and 4 and is pretty much the best CC in the game, made better with Rift Surge. There is no CC that could possibly be more powerful than a complete freeze, and Cataclysm has a respectable duration and range, as does Stasis.

Nullifiers are the biggest threat to him, and they don't even appear in half of the factions. If you're playing in a team then there's a good chance that they won't be a threat anyway as long as people shoot them.

He's instakilled outside the rift, but it's a 100% free ability that he can cast at almost any time, with no expiry time, and it's his signature ability. That's like saying "loki needs a buff so that he isn't instakilled when he's not invisible". 

I can't really think of a way that Rift Surge could be buffed without either staying irrelevant compared to Stasis/Cataclysm, or boosting Limbo even higher up the power chart.