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Is DE playing stalker mode ? Edit: DE is putting in an Opt-out so chill

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1 minute ago, Ikusias said:

@Letter13: the poster you answered to probably meant that all this is a mess waiting to happen due to all the potential problems and glitches, an unnecessary one because there are a lot more things that should have had much more priority than that.

But there are different groups that handle different aspects of the game.  The projects that you feel should take priority aren't being slowed due to this as there is a PvP development team that probably isn't repurposed elsewhere, so this new thing isn't pulling them from other projects; they were never on them to begin with. 

Yeah, it's gonna cause bugs in the game but everything DE does causes that already. 

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25 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

But there are different groups that handle different aspects of the game.  The projects that you feel should take priority aren't being slowed due to this as there is a PvP development team that probably isn't repurposed elsewhere, so this new thing isn't pulling them from other projects; they were never on them to begin with. 

Yeah, it's gonna cause bugs in the game but everything DE does causes that already. 

I used to follow the City of Heroes forums.  At one point, one of the devs (an animator) was showing off how he had made what he felt were improvements to one of the standard character animations.  Someone responded to him, complaining viciously "Why are you wasting time on this when you should all be fixing bugs?"  He replied that he *could* try to apply his knowledge of 3D animation techniques to correcting networking and coding bugs.  But that he was *pretty* sure nobody would like how it turned out.

It's not quite the same thing here - someone is spending time on programing stalker mode and setting up matchmaking (and building the syndicate and creating rewards for that and so on.)  Some of these things *could* be seen as competition for time and resources with equivalent PVE content (such as a new, non-PVP faction that also has new rewards, etc.)  It's still not cut and dried though.  If the current main projects are, let's say the Jupiter Gas-mining tileset rework and the Wolf of Saturn 5 event, there could be breaks in the schedule where one team has done everything (animation, coding, 3D modeling) and is waiting for something else to be finished.  They *could* just start flailing away at the next project (War Within, Railjack) or the one after that.  Or they could throw a few hours at something like Stalker Mode instead of sitting around for half the day or going home early.

I'm not a fan of PVP, and I definitely plan to opt-out now that we have confirmation that it will be allowed.  My original complaint/reservation/freakout about the system was from the interview where Scott mentioned that he would prefer there was no opt out because everyone would just turn it off.  We have a Dev quote now (outside of hidden super secret forums) saying that is no longer the case.  Will I be annoyed if there are weapons or cosmetics added that I can't get?  A bit.  Do I have any intention of even giving the mode a try to see how it turns out?  No.  And yeah, there'll probably be bugs.  But they clearly have people who do stuff like design the side factions, and they already have a framework set up for it.  (Simaris, the Syndicates, Ostrons, Solaris United and Vox Solaris, the Quills.) 

This looks like a project that a handful of people are making in addition to anything else going on.  Not something that's causing the entire studio to grind to a halt to get it finished.  In fact, they said they're NOT going to do the big super-secret Tennocon demo this year because it turns into *exactly* that kind of drain, to focus on continuing updates and content instead.

Personally as long as I have the option to ignore Stalke Mode, then fine, whatever.  Go nuts.

Edited by EmberStar
Expanded an acronym, since there's no reason to assume anyone knows or cares what CoH might mean.
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Honestly while on paper the concept of a player-controlled Stalker seems interesting, the potential for abuse and trolling is fairly high and it feels way too similar to invasions in Dark Souls 1, balance problems included: what's in there for the players that opt-in for being harrassed? what's for the Stalker player that will probably be ganked in the first 5 seconds of engagement or covered in insults, reported fo unsportsmanlike behaviour etc.?

At the same time the proposed concept feels very barebones:

- what's the role behind playing trough the eyes of the kinslayer?

- what will be the rewards? access to some of its rarest drops?  will Stalker mk II dros be improved in view of its higher difficulty?

- personalization? why not instead let us create a patchwork frame like the Acolites ones?

- will there be actual measures to prevent stalker players being toxic brats?

- letting the Stalker being played by the community also remove part of the draw of the character downgrading it to a minigame that permits/encourages harrassing people in-game.

Conclave needs a revamp, Lunaro is dead in the water, Archwing maps are populated only during Fomorian events, Saryn is still broken as hell balancewise after her rework, Onslaught is a mess that forces players to the usual 2-3 meta frames, Arbitrations ramped the tedium instead of the challenge factor by needlessly prolonging each phase of a rotation instead of adding many more enemies and new threats...

I believe is quite clear why i'm not much enthused about this latest addition while there wasn't any announcement regarding fixing al the above messes.

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3 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Hey lads. Lads.

 

Baro brought Stalker beacons.

 

Let’s do science.

Awwww.

 

 

Sad news: Magus Lockdown is of extremely limited use against the Shadow Stalker. It does not bind him in place. It does, however, cause him damage if he is still within range of the link when the mine goes off, so that's neat.

 

Trivia: when Magus Lockdown locks onto the Shadow Stalker, the beam changes from whatever your Operator energy colour is to red.

 

Caveat: this is against the Shadow Stalker only, as it is, for obvious reasons, difficult to arrange a test of Operator powers vs old Stalker.

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6 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Caveat: this is against the Shadow Stalker only, as it is, for obvious reasons, difficult to arrange a test of Operator powers vs old Stalker.

Yeah, that'd be pretty hard to set up.  You *might* be able to manage it if you could arrange teams of three Standard Stalker targets and one player with Focus and Amps unlocked (and preferably no Stalker Mark of their own.)  It's not impossible, but it would be a serious pain.

Edited by EmberStar

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10 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

I used to follow the City of Heroes forums.  At one point, one of the devs (an animator) was showing off how he had made what he felt were improvements to one of the standard character animations.  Someone responded to him, complaining viciously "Why are you wasting time on this when you should all be fixing bugs?"  He replied that he *could* try to apply his knowledge of 3D animation techniques to correcting networking and coding bugs.  But that he was *pretty* sure nobody would like how it turned out.

It's not quite the same thing here - someone is spending time on programing stalker mode and setting up matchmaking (and building the syndicate and creating rewards for that and so on.)  Some of these things *could* be seen as competition for time and resources with equivalent PVE content (such as a new, non-PVP faction that also has new rewards, etc.)  It's still not cut and dried though.  If the current main projects are, let's say the Jupiter Gas-mining tileset rework and the Wolf of Saturn 5 event, there could be breaks in the schedule where one team has done everything (animation, coding, 3D modeling) and is waiting for something else to be finished.  They *could* just start flailing away at the next project (War Within, Railjack) or the one after that.  Or they could throw a few hours at something like Stalker Mode instead of sitting around for half the day or going home early.

I'm not a fan of PVP, and I definitely plan to opt-out now that we have confirmation that it will be allowed.  My original complaint/reservation/freakout about the system was from the interview where Scott mentioned that he would prefer there was no opt out because everyone would just turn it off.  We have a Dev quote now (outside of hidden super secret forums) saying that is no longer the case.  Will I be annoyed if there are weapons or cosmetics added that I can't get?  A bit.  Do I have any intention of even giving the mode a try to see how it turns out?  No.  And yeah, there'll probably be bugs.  But they clearly have people who do stuff like design the side factions, and they already have a framework set up for it.  (Simaris, the Syndicates, Ostrons, Solaris United and Vox Solaris, the Quills.) 

This looks like a project that a handful of people are making in addition to anything else going on.  Not something that's causing the entire studio to grind to a halt to get it finished.  In fact, they said they're NOT going to do the big super-secret Tennocon demo this year because it turns into *exactly* that kind of drain, to focus on continuing updates and content instead.

Personally as long as I have the option to ignore Stalke Mode, then fine, whatever.  Go nuts.

Honestly, while reading all I could think about was how much I miss that game.

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11 hours ago, carbman95 said:

I don't like playing as operator at all,

I love Op but I wish it was as viable as a normal warframe in regular missions. Not only is it slower it just isn't that good. Maybe ones I unbound all the way things and get an uber amp it'll be better. But that's a lot of work and I bet the warframe will still be better. Do all that work and it should at least be competitive with the warframe imho. Don't get me wrong I use my Op but for niche situations. I use it to revive, I use it to void dash to hard to get to places. I use it to stealth/scout when not on a stealth frame. But other then like Eidolon hunts I don't use it for combat. That makes me sad. Put all this work into the Op and they still only have niche uses. I don't think the Op should be stronger. But I think they should be as strong or at least viable. I think their biggest issue is how squishy they are. Their lack of movement does encourage usage either.

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So Warframe forum famous "player's problem" card can be applied to many kinds of complaints but not pvp toxicity? Lol 

 

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9 hours ago, TheSixteenth said:

What if you have to do it at least once for the new quest that unlocks railjack or the new open world map? Not doing it? I'm not buying it. You will do it, mess someone up and you won't feel bad about it. 

If it was forced on us in order to progress I'd be very upset. Warframe is a PvE game. Forcing progression through a PvP system would enrage a lot of people. If you like PvP that's fine but don't force it down our throats. 

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21 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

So Warframe forum famous "player's problem" card can be applied to many kinds of complaints but not pvp toxicity? Lol 

 

Err... what?  Sorry, but this comment doesn't make any sense.  It feels like you're responding to a specific comment or idea, but you didn't bother to quote it so it just seems out of context.

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9 hours ago, TheSixteenth said:

What if it gave very nice posters and sigils? 

Or a new meta mod/arcane? 

What if it's the only way to get umbral forma? At max standing. 

What if you have to do it at least once for the new quest that unlocks railjack or the new open world map? Not doing it? I'm not buying it. You will do it, mess someone up and you won't feel bad about it. 

Then I would provide feedback that I deeply resent PVE weapons, mods, and quests being locked behind PVP.  And follow up by acting on that, and never doing it.  I'm sure other people would do the bare minimum to get the items they want and then abandon it.  DE can apparently track some thing very precisely, so if the mode is deeply unpopular they'd see a sharp decline in participation as people get "that one thing" they're grinding for and abandon it.

If they made such a horrible design decision, then yes.  The best course of action would be to completely refuse to participate.  I disliked the idea of Raids/Trials and how they were set up.  (And the elitism and toxicity that often went with them.)  As a result, I never participated in the Raids.  Not once.  As far as I was concerned, Arcanes might as well have not even existed.

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6 hours ago, LSG501 said:

but they are people who COULD be working on fixing the issues instead of working on this new game mode.  As I said DE should be prioritising fixing the bugs and finishing EXISTING content over adding new game modes. 

That's where you're wrong.

different teams specialise in different things.

You don't ask a concept artist to animate a walk cycle.

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1 hour ago, MagPrime said:

Honestly, while reading all I could think about was how much I miss that game.

Sorry.  It seems to happen a lot in relation to that game.  A little too much sometimes.  I also used to be in the "CoX" (City of X) channel in Star Trek Online.  I had to drop it because every single conversation turned into an echo chamber about how NCSoft was run by demons who snacked on live kitten hearts.  It got old.  😞

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16 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Sorry.  It seems to happen a lot in relation to that game.  A little too much sometimes.  I also used to be in the "CoX" (City of X) channel in Star Trek Online.  I had to drop it because every single conversation turned into an echo chamber about how NCSoft was run by demons who snacked on live kitten hearts.  It got old.  😞

Yeah, I'm in some CoX fb groups and it's the same. 

 

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2 hours ago, MagPrime said:

there is a PvP development team

Is there one? As pointed before, stalker mode has been developed 2 years ago.

On the other hand:

- revenant and none of the frames released after him have been rebalanced for conclave

- there's quite a lot of feedback regarding balance issues that have been in the game ever since PoE release (sniper rework) and got bigger after DE's big PvE balance pass but hasn't been addressed in all of this time.

- the closest to a dev response in the subforums have been from moderators locking threads (either with or without a comment explaining why) since noones seems to be at that office and it seems like that subforums is so far from DE's sight that it's the go-to place for PvE players to toss their usual "warframe is pve, go play something else", "remove conclave", "waste of resources", "all pvp players are toxic" and all of their nonsense in order to prevent the devs from tweaking a few numbers and balance it.

And despite being neglected by the devs and trashed by the vocal side of the community for a really long time, conclave still manages to keep a loyal playerbase that doesn't jump at DE's throat screaming "content drought" 2 weeks after a big update.

Edited by ----Legacy----
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10 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

 

For a huge number of players who avoid PvP, it is purely and simply not about difficulty. It is about wanting to avoid the toxicity and strife which can arise from conflict between human players. 

 

Thank you for listening.

I quoting this so it could be seen again before some forget or miss this fundamental TRUTH.  

Thank you for your time.  

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6 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Hi, yes, hello, have you heard of the return key?  

Yes. I made an edit using it right before this reply appeared.

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4 hours ago, EmberStar said:

Err... what?  Sorry, but this comment doesn't make any sense.  It feels like you're responding to a specific comment or idea, but you didn't bother to quote it so it just seems out of context.

Whether it's "the grind", "powercreep" or other Warframe problems, there are yes men who usually say "it's player's problem" but when it's about pvp they don't use that card, hilarious isn't it?

 

Their hypocrisies aren't supposed to make any senses. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Volinus7
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14 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Whether it's "the grind", "powercreep" or other Warframe problems, there are yes men who usually say "it's player's problem" but when it's about pvp they don't use that card, hilarious isn't it?

I still have no idea what you're talking about.  But sure, that thing you said.  We'll just go with that and pretend it makes sense.

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15 hours ago, BaIthazar said:

That's where you're wrong.

different teams specialise in different things.

You don't ask a concept artist to animate a walk cycle.

Except for the 'minor' details that there are bugs for each of those specialised teams to be working on....

Sound team works on sound bugs (funnily enough they seem to be the ones with the least issues), they also seem to be the most pro active at fixing them too.

3d/graphics teams (there will be an overlap between the concept artists and the 3D designers) work on the visual bugs such as mesa's buttocks or the operator clothing which still needs fixing (again)... hell last time I checked the feet on the moonless kavat skin still don't connect to the legs and don't get me started on clipping of syandana's etc...actually thinking about my helminth charger has been floating in the air alot so that could be a graphics issue or a coding one....

Coding people work on the coding that needs fixing etc...

 

You can try and make out I don't know about different specialities as much as you like but I decided not to go that 'detailed' because I didn't feel I'd need to be that pedantic in my explanation, especially considering anybody that isn't being blind can see there are issues in EVERY area of the game meaning that it doesn't matter what someone has as their speciality there is something they could be 'fixing'. 

Considering that the majority of staff within each of these specialities is likely working on upcoming content, such as the new warframes, gas city rework, railjack etc taking even a small amount of staff away to work on bug fixing would be IMO a much more beneficial use of staff time than adding another game mode, that will in all likelihood need it's fixes after release....in essence I'd just like to see them finish some of the existing things they've added or started 'fixing' get finished before they move on to something else which will be left in a half finished state.

 

Edited by LSG501
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21 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Well, one of the positive effects is the general sense of affection that the community has for DE, which is slightly unusual for games dev. We seem to have a tendency to think of DE as this bunch of lovable goofs who make our fun game, instead of anonymous devs and corporate spokespeople.

Agree. I wasn't having a go at DE. They've admitted themselves that their approach to development has been pretty haphazard in the past. But it is nice that they actually interact with their player base in the way they do, instead of remaining faceless, anonymous and uncommunicative, as many devs do.

 

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12 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

Agree. I wasn't having a go at DE. They've admitted themselves that their approach to development has been pretty haphazard in the past. But it is nice that they actually interact with their player base in the way they do, instead of remaining faceless, anonymous and uncommunicative, as many devs do.

 

Especially knowing that the consequence of cultivating that kind of interaction is that for every hundred people in your fanbase who are nice, chances are you’re gonna get someone who’s a creep. 

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11 hours ago, EmberStar said:

I still have no idea what you're talking about.  But sure, that thing you said.  We'll just go with that and pretend it makes sense.

Look man, you're trying to respond to a troll. Do you really expect a good response?

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3 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Especially knowing that the consequence of cultivating that kind of interaction is that for every hundred people in your fanbase who are nice, chances are you’re gonna get someone who’s a creep. 

Agreed.  Just imagine Reb's reactions to all the Rule 34 stuff of her.  You have to have pretty thick skin to handle that kind of thing the way she does.  

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20 hours ago, Velaethia said:

I love Op but I wish it was as viable as a normal warframe in regular missions. Not only is it slower it just isn't that good. Maybe ones I unbound all the way things and get an uber amp it'll be better. But that's a lot of work and I bet the warframe will still be better. Do all that work and it should at least be competitive with the warframe imho. Don't get me wrong I use my Op but for niche situations. I use it to revive, I use it to void dash to hard to get to places. I use it to stealth/scout when not on a stealth frame. But other then like Eidolon hunts I don't use it for combat. That makes me sad. Put all this work into the Op and they still only have niche uses. I don't think the Op should be stronger. But I think they should be as strong or at least viable. I think their biggest issue is how squishy they are. Their lack of movement does encourage usage either.

I would agree for now, but I think the point is to ease the player and their Tenno into a Hero's Journey with the Plains areas. I sorta think its sad that Void Blast amps weren't introduced with Fortuna to enhance the Tenno melee alongside the Void Laser Amps. Later plains areas could have Void dash amps and Void Shadow (Void mode) amps each giving bonuses to the connected attributes and improving the base dash and shadow mode respectively. It would also really help on preventing Tenno mode play wasting at least half of the affinity gained as Void Blast currently eats some at all times which makes it poof since it has no real weapon to consume it but does have a placeholder there that does. I don't figure the Tenno mode should cover the same biases as the Warframe, like I doubt our little bodies would be as physically strong or athletic to parkour up a wall, but I do feel we should be viable in our own way. Right now, I would classify us even with waybounds as starter to medium level akin to Warframe loadouts that had helped earn such options for the wee star children.

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