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Joe_Barbarian

Is DE playing stalker mode ? Edit: DE is putting in an Opt-out so chill

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11 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

I would be very careful in doing this if I were you. Such behavior could be classified as griefing, and griefing violates the rules. Actively doing it and encouraging it could result in punishments levied against your account and all others participating in such activities.

 

Or, you could opt to not violate the rules and not grief by simply opting out of invasions.

To be honest, in my opinion DE is doing the griefing by adding in such a controversial game mode in a PVE game.  People leaving missions will be a indirect consequence of DE implementing said Stalker mode and should be prepared to accept those consequences.  Its ther game to better or ruin now isn't it?  I would think it could only be griefing if a player went in with the intent for the stalker to spawn just so they could abort.  Being as how random stalker is that dousnt seem likely, especially if opt in/out actually works.  

Any newly introduced pvp game mode should be put in conclave where pvp belongs

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashagin said:

To be honest, in my opinion DE is doing the griefing by adding in such a controversial game mode in a PVE game.  People leaving missions will be a indirect consequence of DE implementing said Stalker mode and should be prepared to accept those consequences.  Its ther game to better or ruin now isn't it?  I would think it could only be griefing if a player went in with the intent for the stalker to spawn just so they could abort.  Being as how random stalker is that dousnt seem likely, especially if opt in/out actually works.  

Any newly introduced pvp game mode should put in conclave where pvp belongs

Adding the mode and making it optional is a totally fine way to do this. If the mode turns out to just encourage horrible griefing, then all players need to do is switch it off, and if DE notice that everyone's switching it off to avoid harassment, they can take steps to curb that kind of nonsense.

 

I have concerns about the mode, but they are almost entirely assuaged by making it optional, and I'm stating here (like I've said elsewhere) that I fully intend to have the mode switched on and give it a solid try.

 

 

However....

27 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Let's just drop this "Their toxic screeching was louder than this toxic screeching!" okay?

Pretty sure that telling people they should be sent to Iraq to get actually, literally shot at is indeed louder toxic screeching than "I'll disconnect rather than do PvP, so there."

 

So...?

 

 

Look, I get what you're going for, and it would be great if dreadful arguments could just chill and stay in the past. But they won't.

                   I'd quite happily not have to deal with folks who are in favour of Stalker mode going berserk and screeching abuse at players who prefer to stick to PvE if the mode does indeed turn out to be optional, and yet I'm about 80% sure that that's what's gonna happen, and my feeling that way is directly rooted in the behaviour of those players back then. So, this will be the last time in this thread that I mention it or bring it up, but I most certainly will not forget.

 

 

 

 

Both of the things which I'm saying in this post can be true. I can be cautiously optimistic about the idea of the mode itself, while wary because of the horrible behaviour I've already seen from its loudest proponents.

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashagin said:

To be honest, in my opinion DE is doing the griefing by adding in such a controversial game mode in a PVE game.  People leaving missions will be a indirect consequence of DE implementing said Stalker mode and should be prepared to accept those consequences.  Its ther game to better or ruin now isn't it?  I would think it could only be griefing if a player went in with the intent for the stalker to spawn just so they could abort.  Being as how random stalker is that dousnt seem likely, especially if opt in/out actually works.  

Any newly introduced pvp game mode should be put in conclave where pvp belongs

Or, you can opt out of it and you won't be at risk of being invaded by another player.

DE isn't griefing anyone, they're not forcing you to play PvP.

 

If you opt into being invaded by players and then you leave/disconnect to grief them, this is griefing--you are intentionally and willingly letting yourself be invaded for the sole purpose of ruining others' games. This is griefing, and can result in punishments for violating the game's code of conduct.

 

Say it with me... This game mode is entirely optional and if I don't want to be invaded, I don't have to be. 

 

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20 minutes ago, (PS4)Ashagin said:

What I want to know is, as far as matchmaking, will this split the community in half or whatever ratio is opted in/out?  If not then if 3 people are opted out and 1 in, if that one gets a stalker spawn is ther a chance it could be another player since he's opted in? 

Will ther still be natural stalker npc spawns or will they lock him into a game mode most dont want to play much like conclave and its cosmetics.

I dont have the most faith that this will be handled properly and cant help but think it will just create more problems than not.

Pretty much this.  How would this work in the online mode?    They already said it will be a Public-only thing. So not in invite/friends and solo modes.  The latter makes sense, since we can pause in solo mode and having a player invasion disabling that is just terrible all across the board.

But a public 3 opt-in & 1-opt out team setup?    What then?

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It seems that Warframe is far too casual for any kind of PVP. As the majority of players are far too used to the easy difficulty of it being a hoard shooter and are not used to or prepared for any sort of difficulty.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

I don't get this hostility against the Stalker mode. And not because I think it would be hilariously fun (at both ends), but because at the end of the day, it changes nothing, fighting against a player controlled Stalker.

...

And I'm sure they'll introduce a system that won't allow trolling.

Personally, I don't want to PVP.  At all.  It's not how likely I am to win or lose.  It's the part where another player is attacking me.  I hate PVP.  For me, the part where Stalker is being controlled by another player changes *everything.*

And I'm not sure at all they'll introduce a system that won't allow trolling.  Not at first anyway.  I still expect them to allow full trolling, and only disable it when people abuse the hell out of it.  Every single time we've seen the devs testing/demonstrating this mode they've had the ability to interact with objectives and destroy allied NPCs.  In the interview with Tactical Potato, Scott mentioned *specifically* that they're intentionally allowing it by making the Stalker a separate NPC faction that can damage both players and all in-mission NPCs.

If the devs have publicly mentioned anywhere that they are for sure making it Opt-In or that they will be removing the ability to grief mission objectives, please provide a link.  (Ie, Citation Required.)  If they said it in one of their streams, please point to which one.  Preferably to the timestamp of the point where they state it.  Because as far as I know, if they've mentioned definite plans to make it opt-in, it hasn't happened anywhere most people can see it.

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10 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Say it with me... This game mode is entirely optional and if I don't want to be invaded, I don't have to be. 

 

Citation required, please.

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3 minutes ago, MystMan said:

Pretty much this.  How would this work in the online mode?    They already said it will be a Public-only thing. So not in invite/friends and solo modes.  The latter makes sense, since we can pause in solo mode and having a player invasion disabling that is just terrible all across the board.

But a public 3 opt-in & 1-opt out team setup?    What then?

Answer is simple, if even one person in a squad opts out, the squad as a whole is not eligible for invasion. 

If the stalker invades, it will be the NPC variety.

 

However, considering the desire for Stalker's gear, most players will wind up opting in and you'll likely see groups organizing in recruiting for stalker-hunting parties to lure the more frequent player-controlled stalker invasions.

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DE is putting in an Opt-out so chill 

Still curious on how that will actually work.

6 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

opts out, the squad as a whole is not eligible for invasion.

Hope it's just that simple

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

It seems that Warframe is far too casual for any kind of PVP. As the majority of players are far too used to the easy difficulty of it being a hoard shooter and are not used to or prepared for any sort of difficulty.

That is a common misconception that is often used as to why some people do not like to play pvp.  It's not automatically about difficulty or being bad.  It's also a psychological thing.

Some people simply do not like conflict with other human beings, it makes them uncomfortable regardless if they're good or bad at it. They're here to have wholesome fun without it be at the expense of another player having to lose. And we have to respect that instead of berating them for it

And there are of course the toxic tryhards.  You find these players everywhere of course, pve and pvp. But due to the nature of pvp, you will run into them more often in higher frequency in a pvp environment. The pvp playerbase of Warframe is very small now so it may not be obvious but should that number grow, so will the toxicity. 

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17 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Answer is simple, if even one person in a squad opts out, the squad as a whole is not eligible for invasion. 

If the stalker invades, it will be the NPC variety.

 

However, considering the desire for Stalker's gear, most players will wind up opting in and you'll likely see groups organizing in recruiting for stalker-hunting parties to lure the more frequent player-controlled stalker invasions.

Good to know it wont split the community.  If he becomes so easy to hunt though they will most likely have to change his drop percentages.  Or even have separate drop tables and chances for pvp and pve stalkers.  After all his bundle sales would probably become obsolete otherwise.

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15 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Citation required, please.

Citation:  The last like four times it's been brought up on a stream where it's been repeatedly and specifically stated to be entirely optional.

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2 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:

Letter13 is correct. Stalker mode will be opt-in/out as described.

Good to know. Thank u for clarifying. 

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20 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:

Letter13 is correct. Stalker mode will be opt-in/out as described.

I haven't kept up with dev communication on the mode, but I assume opt-out will be the default setting, correct?

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1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Two wrongs indeed do not make a right...but raising one's voice about one's concerns absolutely helps DE know what's going on in the community.

 

And my God, were pro-Stalker advocates vicious and unpleasant about wanting anyone who had those concerns to just shut up.

Friendly reminder: I've seen you repeating this 3 or 4 times now in this thread alone.

So far I had not felt the need to comment again.

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2 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Friendly reminder: I've seen you repeating this 3 or 4 times now in this thread alone.

So far I had not felt the need to comment again.

Yep. Because those debates were completely horrible and did in fact taint my view of this entire issue. I would have more ‘benefit of the doubt’ to offer, but much of it was burned up about the fifth time I saw the suggestion of a compromise [the exact compromise which we have ended up with in the end; an opt in/out system] responded to with insults, taunts, and the general sentiment of ‘screw you, coward, get out of Warframe if you cannot handle it, Warframe is PvP now.’ I’m not inclined to pretend that didn’t happen, or that it did not shape my expectations for the behaviour of elements of the community.

 

 

 

So, this is fine, but we just need to see how the mode actually gets implemented. My general prediction/feeling is as follows: Cautious optimism for the mode itself, tempered with the knowledge that DE are good people but usually take a few tries to hammer out the glitches...and a sinking feeling as I expect a nasty backlash from the hardcore supporters if and when the mode is launched and is strictly optional.

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@BornWithTeeth But this one has been mostly decent so far, so let's not go there. If you feel like you want to have a conversation with me again, we can do so through PMs.

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This is not a thread made by that Aramil guy and DE already confirmed the opt out so there is no need for salt.

Also, it means no more threads need to be made. The answer is already here.

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13 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

@BornWithTeeth But this one has been mostly decent so far, so let's not go there. If you feel like you want to have a conversation with me again, we can do so through PMs.

It is, perhaps, not so much about ‘going there’ as it is about acknowledging that we are ‘there’ already and have been for quite some time, since the first round of arguments. It is a little late now to pretend that everyone was nice all along.

 

That doesn’t mean having to continue snapping and snarling at each other, and DE do appear to have made their decision, so we’ll see. Like I said, based purely on mechanics, I’m happy to try this mode out, and I think it could work just fine.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Perhaps I am a deeply unforgiving person.

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10 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

This is not a thread made by that Aramil guy

Honestly when I first saw the title come up in my feed (before the title edit) I had thought it was him making it. I had gotten my popcorn ready.  

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If player-controlled Stalker had a better loot table (i.e. all the mod drops and Dread BP are removed), I might opt in.

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I understand there are a lot of feelings surrounding the inclusion of this mode, but remember to keep it civil, please.

If the discussion goes off the rails into personal attacks, then it's going to get locked.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Letter13 is correct. Stalker mode will be opt-in/out as described.

Thank you very much for the confirmation. That´s a relief.

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