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Joe_Barbarian

Is DE playing stalker mode ? Edit: DE is putting in an Opt-out so chill

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hace 4 horas, Datam4ss dijo:

Probably all skins and stuff.

If they added actual rewards, you will see circles of people PvP each other to boost everything then switch it off.

Since it's a PvP related syndicate they could avoid people opting out of the system after getting the rewards in a similar way to how they handle Recruit Conditioning in PvP, which can be toggled on and off until the player reaches rank 3 and the most seeked rewards are locked behind rank 5. If DE makes stalker syndicate work the same way, players who want the rewards would have no choice other than being in the system for the rest of their warframe life. Opt out or neat rewards... kinda  a tough choice for some players, but could work to discourage boosting.

Also, i don't think that adding actual gear (weapons, exclusive mods, even warframes or arcanes) is such an awful idea since all of those can usually be traded anyways.

hace 4 horas, Datam4ss dijo:

Therefore, I would posit it would only reward cosmetics, maybe War components (war blade, war hilt etc) and perhaps Stalker's stuff, yeah. Just hope they don't put the Pakal armor as a reward, would be a slap in the face.

I'd like to see Shadow stalker's body as an excalibur skin, however i don't it ever gets to happen since DE has refused to add stalker helmet because they want to keep the character unique.

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I want the story to lead to Stalker becoming a playable frame for our tenno who has the unique ability to use some other warframe abilities. Like 1: Rhino Charge. 2: Inaros Devour, 3: Desecrate 4: Absorption. You can use abilities from frames you've mastered. 1 key abilities can only go in the 1 slot obviously. Certain abilities cannot be copied for obvious reasons such as 3 key for Khora, 3, 4 for Nidus, 4 titania, et all. Idk how he'd work in PvP. But he may use different stats then the base frame so certain combos aren't too op. But I don't think he'd have a huge issue of being op in PVE. Maybe his passive also allows him to take a passive from other frames. Some wouldn't be available such as nidus or limbo. 

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18 hours ago, NotDealwithitdog said:

i mean they've said there won't be an option to opt out because then everyone would just opt out

Then why would you add it? Seems pointless. I don't like the idea of pvp being forced. This is a PVE focused game. I've barely touched PvP. I don't care for it. The reason I like this game so much is it's one of the few PVE focused shooters. I just want stalker for PVE mode...

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1 hour ago, Remy_Lacroix said:

Since it's a PvP related syndicate they could avoid people opting out of the system after getting the rewards in a similar way to how they handle Recruit Conditioning in PvP, which can be toggled on and off until the player reaches rank 3 and the most seeked rewards are locked behind rank 5. If DE makes stalker syndicate work the same way, players who want the rewards would have no choice other than being in the system for the rest of their warframe life. Opt out or neat rewards... kinda  a tough choice for some players, but could work to discourage boosting.

Also, i don't think that adding actual gear (weapons, exclusive mods, even warframes or arcanes) is such an awful idea since all of those can usually be traded anyways.

Somehow, base weapons, warframe are not tradable. It would provoke a rather large outcry from the hardline anti PvP crowd anyway, if there are things that lock you into playing Stalker mode or such.

The moment anything is locked in WF, you can get ready to be blasted by some segment of the community. Take Excal P as an example. People actually still debate this thing every now and then even after DE said no. Same for Primed Chamber.

There is no such thing as "discouraging boosting". Even if locked into Stalker Mode, I can consume all my friend's marks and he can do the same for me. Even if each player can only invade each other once a day, a ghost clan can already clear 9 marks a day.

So I have to say, this is a silly idea that solves no problem. Which is why I would still stand by the principle that only cosmetics be locked behind it. Cosmetics like sigils, sekharas and syandanas are better for that epeen anyway.

Rather than debating what is locked behind it and attracting the sharks, might as well steer clear of usual hate topics.

Edited by Datam4ss
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hace 28 minutos, Datam4ss dijo:

Somehow, base weapons, warframe are not tradable. It would provoke a rather large outcry from the hardline anti PvP crowd anyway, if there are things that lock you into playing Stalker mode or such.

DE could simply make them tradeable, it's most likely something as simple as changing a line similar to "available_for_trading=false" to "available_for_trading=true" in said gear.

Cosmetics on the other hand, those don't affect neither gameplay nor progression, so it's fine to keep them exclusive. 

Based on what i"ve read, one of the (many) reasons why many players don't do conclave is the lack of meaningful rewards, making pvp "a waste of time" in a grind heavy pve game, however, as you point the players also refuse to have anything meaningful to make pvp worth at least giving a try for the rewards which, imo, shows how awfully spoiled is the vocal side of this playerbase.

hace 28 minutos, Datam4ss dijo:

The moment anything is locked in WF, you can get ready to be blasted by some segment of the community. Take Excal P as an example. People actually still debate this thing every now and then even after DE said no. Same for Primed Chamber.

Excal Prime is different since nobody can get him thanks to a dumb short sighted promise made back when DE thought warframe wouldn't last more than 18 months, you can't compare it to rewards that are there available for anyone to get as long as they decide to "grind" for them and endure whatever consequences it may bring to their accounts, which in this system would be losing the ability to opt out the invasion system.

hace 28 minutos, Datam4ss dijo:

There is no such thing as "discouraging boosting". Even if locked into Stalker Mode, I can consume all my friend's marks and he can do the same for me. Even if each player can only invade each other once a day, a ghost clan can already clear 9 marks a day.

And then? You'd either be locked only to private lobbies or solo and would have to avoid killing bosses, which would be the same players could do if DE had decided not to add the opt-in/out system despite this not being an actual fix for the concerns of the anti pvp crowd.

Also, DE could make the stalker unable to join friends or people by name and you'd have no way to clear marks with them.

hace 28 minutos, Datam4ss dijo:

So I have to say, this is a silly idea that solves no problem.

It solves the issue of players wanting the system optional while also addressing DE's concern of the mode dying on release.

hace 28 minutos, Datam4ss dijo:

Which is why I would still stand by the principle that only cosmetics be locked behind it. Cosmetics like sigils, sekharas and syandanas are better for that epeen anyway.

So, pvp players can't have nice things too? Even if it's a small part of the community, it's really saddening how DE neglects them and even then the rest of the playerbase makes whatever it takes to deny them rewards simply because of the fear of never being able to get everything even when like 99.99% of the playerbase is already locked away from the content you already named. Bei g unable to get everything isn't the end lf the warframe, let alone of the world.

hace 28 minutos, Datam4ss dijo:

Rather than debating what is locked behind it and attracting the sharks, might as well steer clear of usual hate topics.

I wouldn't be surprised if they did, DE fears the vocal minority of this community and that's why they haven't even brought back the pvp events despite these being fun even for players who don't like conclave at all. 

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10 hours ago, Corvid said:

It's more like "You've come into my house uninvited, so I have every right to make life as unpleasant for you as possible until you leave".

I understand you don't want this in your game, but I still think that the way you want to fight this is stupid. I mostly play warframe solo, so not only I am not interested in pvp, i don't do much co-op either. But I would be annoyed more about my host leaving intentionally, then about player stalker invading me, the invasion would probably last about 30 sec, while you leaving will take more time and lose progress.
Instead toxicity spreading, how about offering normal solutions.

You have a right to opt-out of this game mode.(this is the most important and yet simple, just like Conclave isn't mandatory)

Stalker can't run around the map trolling, he can spawn only in rooms, so it gets locked until somebody gets killed. (If you really are not in the mood to fight, you let him win, he gets his reward, you lose 1 revive, big whoop, if the mode is kept on the basic starchart, that won't be a big deal)

In endless missions make it so stalker can invade in the first 5 minutes or waves so he doesn't ruin long runs for some people. And of course don't give stalker the ability to attack the objective you are defending, or use life support, or trigger lasers.

 

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3 minutes ago, carbman95 said:

I understand you don't want this in your game, but I still think that the way you want to fight this is stupid. I mostly play warframe solo, so not only I am not interested in pvp, i don't do much co-op either. But I would be annoyed more about my host leaving intentionally, then about player stalker invading me, the invasion would probably last about 30 sec, while you leaving will take more time and lose progress.
Instead toxicity spreading, how about offering normal solutions.

 

I only play solo or with friends, and we all share the same opinion regarding PvP. Since an opt out has been confirmed, we will all be using it. My comment was for the off chance that it was mandatory, as PvP of any kind sets off an intense revulsion in me which I would rather avoid.

I did not found a PvP game.

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1 minute ago, Corvid said:

I only play solo or with friends, and we all share the same opinion regarding PvP. Since an opt out has been confirmed, we will all be using it. My comment was for the off chance that it was mandatory, as PvP of any kind sets off an intense revulsion in me which I would rather avoid.

I did not found a PvP game.

Yes I see now too that it is confirmed so that is great news! I just don't like the way some of you reacted. Now that it is optional, everyone can try it, and if they don't like it, bye bye. It will probably hold a small part of the playerbase who crave some pvp and that is ok. 

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58 minutes ago, Remy_Lacroix said:

Based on what i"ve read, one of the (many) reasons why many players don't do conclave is the lack of meaningful rewards, making pvp "a waste of time" in a grind heavy pve game, however, as you point the players also refuse to have anything meaningful to make pvp worth at least giving a try for the rewards which, imo, shows how awfully spoiled is the vocal side of this playerbase. 

It would definitely be a big mistake to have special rewards in there that affect gameplay/progression.

Back when I played it, some people absolutely did try farming Conclave reputation for the skins and mods (completionist mentality), then get angry at you for wanting to play the game mode.

Big no no. Not fun for anyone involved.

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1 hour ago, Remy_Lacroix said:

Based on what i"ve read, one of the (many) reasons why many players don't do conclave is the lack of meaningful rewards, making pvp "a waste of time" in a grind heavy pve game, however, as you point the players also refuse to have anything meaningful to make pvp worth at least giving a try for the rewards which, imo, shows how awfully spoiled is the vocal side of this playerbase.

So we solve the lack of "meaningful rewards", somehow, and then what? What about the main reasons people don't play it, which is because it's generally an experience that can be compared to shooting a fly with a sniper rifle, and that most people join for the PvE.

All those people now have "meaningful rewards" locked behind something they absolutely do not want to be doing. Who does this help?

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12 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

All those people now have "meaningful rewards" locked behind something they absolutely do not want to be doing. Who does this help?

I agree. I wouldn't mind equal awards via pvp for those who prefer it but not best, optimal, or needed that are otherwise unobtainable. I mean could you imagine the outrage if a warframe was locked behind PvP? I think 90% would just buy it for plat. Even if they're true free to play they'd sell a bunch a stuff to other players for the plat cuz that'd be better for them.

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I think that this mode should be just for fun, and not extra rewards, let people who enjoy it play it.

But it isn't such a big deal if there is some cosmetic rewards.

I don't like playing as operator at all, I am interested only in warframes because that is what I came here for, but a lot of content is locked behind this, and I am not complaining. I accepted that if I want something that is locked behind that, I will have to do it, or accept to live without it. For an example, it was a pain for me to farm eidolons for paracesis because I don't like playing that, but I pushed trough it and moved on.

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11 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Letter13 is correct. Stalker mode will be opt-in/out as described.

Won't that make it pretty much pointless then?

 

Can't imagine many people will opt in.

Guess we'll know if we start seeing complaint threads from wannabe Stalkers, complaining they can't get a game. 

Thank god DE had enough sense to make it optional, at least.

Edited by FlusteredFerret

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11 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Letter13 is correct. Stalker mode will be opt-in/out as described.

Still not fond of this idea, I assume that squads with even one opt-out will be exempt from attacks?

Because I'll be an automatic opt-out so the first stalker player that hits me is getting a griefing report filed on them.

Edited by Nova73

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3 minutes ago, Nova73 said:

Still not fond of this idea, I assume that squads with even one opt-out will be exempt from attacks?

Because I'll be an automatic opt-out so the first stalker player that hits me is getting a griefing report filed on them.

If Letter13's answer is reliable in this question too, you don't need to worry. But in the case you are attacked by a player controlled Stalker, I guess a bug report would be better 🙂

11 hours ago, Letter13 said:

Answer is simple, if even one person in a squad opts out, the squad as a whole is not eligible for invasion. 

If the stalker invades, it will be the NPC variety.

 

However, considering the desire for Stalker's gear, most players will wind up opting in and you'll likely see groups organizing in recruiting for stalker-hunting parties to lure the more frequent player-controlled stalker invasions.

 

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12 hours ago, Letter13 said:

Answer is simple, if even one person in a squad opts out, the squad as a whole is not eligible for invasion. 

If the stalker invades, it will be the NPC variety.

 

However, considering the desire for Stalker's gear, most players will wind up opting in and you'll likely see groups organizing in recruiting for stalker-hunting parties to lure the more frequent player-controlled stalker invasions.

Like the first part of the answer...very happy about that.

However I feel you could be grossly over-estimating the appeal of Stalker gear and underestimating the strength of feeling of the PvE community.

Honestly wouldn't surprise me if Stalker mode goes the same way as Lunaro & Conclave. Sure, there appears to be a small hardcore number of Stalker nuts, but I'm pretty sure the majority couldn't care less about acquiring the cosmetics...especially seeing as we can already get the coolest stuff - his weapons.

 

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i dont know why everyone's calling it forcing pvp in pve.

it's literally just making stalker a formidible opponent, a really dangerous assassin, rather than some pushover AI. even better if its with shadow stalker, all i do is camp him and kill him with a few shots of amp.

if keeping stalker a pushover pve, then i guess it is forcing pvp.

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14 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

 cry babies.

Man.. I literally used this as an example of typical PvP'er behaviors not a few posts ago. 

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11 minutes ago, krekireftw said:

i dont know why everyone's calling it forcing pvp in pve.

it's literally just making stalker a formidible opponent, a really dangerous assassin, rather than some pushover AI. even better if its with shadow stalker, all i do is camp him and kill him with a few shots of amp.

if keeping stalker a pushover pve, then i guess it is forcing pvp.

Erh, that should be quite obvious. If you play as a team against AI opponents, and then suddenly you play against another player instead, the you are obviously turning a PvE experience into a PvP experience. That's kind of what PvE and PvP means.

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13 hours ago, Letter13 said:

However, considering the desire for Stalker's gear, most players will wind up opting in and you'll likely see groups organizing in recruiting for stalker-hunting parties to lure the more frequent player-controlled stalker invasions.

Oh I doubt that very much, I see a sea of invasion-disabled teams.

Edited by SilentMobius
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26 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Oh I doubt that very much, I see a sea of invasion-disabled teams.

If not at launch, at least once players get tired of losing defence and rescue missions to griefers.

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Le 07/02/2019 à 14:29, Chewarette a dit :

Well, of course the players won't be able to chose their targets. But they'll be able to see the players, so they'll quickly assume whether they're high level or not, and their setup. And they'll probably leave if they find themselves in a MR26 full group with Mesas and Mirages.

And no, I'm not going to punish 4 players. Only 3 (max), in fact, because the Stalker will likely be a PvP-guy trying to annoy honest people just trying to have fun. I'm not considering this guy as a "player", just an "annoyance" like an Ancient Healer or something.

So yes, I'll either disconnect/leave (kinda violent I agree) or start downloading like crazy (this may be even more fun, as host I won't suffer from 2k ms while everyone else will).

Seeing your reaction just comforts me though, seems like people were impatient to annoy other players without any consequences. Don't complain when I decide to annoy you back.

You assume the mode is just for giggles... but what if it's a standing you have to farm? For the new primary custom gun that can do pure true damage? Which is needed for the new eidolon/orbs or new open world end tier ennemy. 

What are you gonna do? Not farm it? Being an ass to people who wants it? 

What if it gave very nice posters and sigils? 

Or a new meta mod/arcane? 

What if it's the only way to get umbral forma? At max standing. 

What if you have to do it at least once for the new quest that unlocks railjack or the new open world map? Not doing it? I'm not buying it. You will do it, mess someone up and you won't feel bad about it. 

Edited by TheSixteenth

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29 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Oh I doubt that very much, I see a sea of invasion-disabled teams.

I...cannot agree, tbh. 

 

Probably the most honest way for this to be presented is for all players to receive one of those inbox messages announcing that they have to opt in or out, and I suspect that novelty will cause a lot of folks to opt in and give it a try.

 

 

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Currently my suspect is that DE will use player-controlled Stalkers to improve it from the near joke it is to more "challenging" levels of difficulty without the hassle of developing better Ai and patterns for it...

It would be interesting if instead of the Stalker we were given reign in manning the Acolytes, or at least be able to decide classic Stalker power loadout.

Still the potential for griefing and abuse is huge, I remember other games were this kind of pvp was possible were entire clans of griefers prospered and were able to force palyers out of the game by constant harrassment - I fear DE is going to open pandora's box for little to no gain here

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