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(PS4)Stealth_Cobra

Warframe, new player retention and constantly pushing players away.

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There's a few design choices I don't quite get in warframe, which makes the game tremendously hard to get into for new players.

1 - Build Times - Yeah, we get it, it's a way to trick impatient players into paying real money.. But you're constantly pushing players away from the game to play something else because "I have to wait three days to get my frame"... Not exactly a good move. Granted, one could argue you want to create a habit, to turn the game into a hobby you get back to every couple of days, and giving players delayed rewards might promote player returning... Then again , judging on how many of the 26 millions players basically quit after a couple of days, maybe it's not the way to go... You want to keep your players "in" the game, to keep them constantly playing and feeling invested... And build times does the exact opposite.

2 - Everything requires a series to tedious tasks to unlock - Want to unlock a planet, hey's let's do this tedious checklist of things to do like kill five eximuses and build a MR6 weapon. Want to build a frame ? Run all over the starchart to collect ressources, farm the same boss over and over and wait three days. Want to play the cool story missions ? Build tons of mastery fodder guns to level up your MR, make an archwing and do 25 other obscure tasks just so you get access to the cool quests. Want to play the cool new venus boss, just max your standing and get a million different endgame things to even be able to survive it... Which leads to next point...

3 - Caps on everything - One mastery rank per day... And standing being capped by MR... This just boggles my mind... How is a new player supposed to progress in cetus / venus if he's hard capped at less than 5k rep per day. You do a single cetus bounty per day and you have to GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE... C'mon, the bare minimum standing cap should be 10k at MR0.... At least give your new players the chance to play the open worlds and get things done.

4 - Double/Triple dipping on everything : Want those cool toys offered in cetus or fortuna, or those cool mods in syndicates... Well, tough luck, because you cannot get any. First you have to rank up, meaning you'll spend days (or weeks if you have a low standing cap) raising a counter, then sacrificing all this standing for a consolation prize, only to relevel to fully and sacrifice again and again. When you finally get the thing you wanted, you usually have to build it, meaning you are in effect triple dipping on everything. People like immediate responses, like "I want this thing,  I buy this thing". Making people save up and sacrifice for weeks before they can buy said thing only ,once again , turns people away, seeing the mountain and preferring not to climb it.

5 - Insane requirements on rare ressource: Just check the amount of orokin cells required to build everything... The amount of formas, fieldron, nitain, detonite ampules, argons you need... All these things are tedious to get and it seems like you're constantly putting roadblocks there too. Especially forma, that thing takes 24 hours to make and is needed for both clan weapons + making your gear better.... UGH.

-------------------------------------------------------

In the end, you have this game with a great gameplay, tons of cool weapons and frames, yet you constantly put big roadblocks to hamper player progression and making everyhing seem like a near insurmontable mountain. I tried making new accounts on other platforms over the years, and I always quit because the amount of time , effort and grind is simply too much to bother.

As warframe matures and ages, it also gets progressively worse for new players , since the content and gear keeps piling up. If it took me 2000+ hours to be "up to date" in warframe over five years, what are the odds a new player that sees that 2000+ hour mountain of systems , caps and restrictions and says "I'm willing to do all of this"...

Edited by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra
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1. While the time delay can be annoying, you can do other things while waiting. I personally dont mind it, and you dont build warframes that often compared to weapons.

2. I dont really have an opinion on those, other than that they seem to want you to play the different nodes, instead of just "flying by".

3. Standing cap for MR is there as an incentive for going up the ranks, and so you also get something of spending the time going up. Id argue that both PoE and Fortuna is not geared towards newer players given its difficulity compared to the star chart.

4. Kinda same as 3, but syndicates are more of a long term goal for players that are further into the game.

5. It can be tedious to get hands on them early on, but they are somewhat easy to get as the game progress. Its part of the game's nature, the farming, which you will either like or dislike (or neutral for that matter).

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45 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Build Times - Yeah, we get it

You spend the next paragraph demonstrating this isn't the case.

46 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Then again , judging on how many of the 26 millions players basically quit after a couple of days, maybe it's not the way to go

The player numbers are trending up, outside the spikes. If it were down, you would have a point. How many of those people would actually stay/spend money if build times were changed?

48 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

In the end, you have this game with a great gameplay, tons of cool weapons and frames, yet you constantly put big roadblocks to hamper player progression and making everyhing seem like a near insurmontable mountain. I tried making new accounts on other platforms over the years, and I always quit because the amount of time , effort and grind is simply too much to bother.

The game is free to download, free to have an account, free to play. If you have an idea of how to better present this fact through the gameplay, by all means. The fact of the matter is there has to be pressure to spend money or the game would not exist.

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39 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

1 - Build Times - Yeah, we get it, it's a way to trick impatient players into paying real money.. But you're constantly pushing players away from the game to play something else because "I have to wait three days to get my frame"... Not exactly a good move. Granted, one could argue you want to create a habit, to turn the game into a hobby you get back to every couple of days, and giving players delayed rewards might promote player returning... Then again , judging on how many of the 26 millions players basically quit after a couple of days, maybe it's not the way to go... You want to keep your players "in" the game, to keep them constantly playing and feeling invested... And build times does the exact opposite.

It's F2P game and needs to make money, and it's not like you're just sitting around doing nothing while watching the timer tick down, the whole game is still there, go actually play it while you're waiting
 

40 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

2 - Everything requires a series to tedious tasks to unlock - Want to unlock a planet, hey's let's do this tedious checklist of things to do like kill five eximuses and build a MR6 weapon. Want to build a frame ? Run all over the starchart to collect ressources, farm the same boss over and over and wait three days. Want to play the cool story missions ? Build tons of mastery fodder guns to level up your MR, make an archwing and do 25 other obscure tasks just so you get access to the cool quests. Want to play the cool new venus boss, just max your standing and get a million different endgame things to even be able to survive it... Which leads to next point...

That's how progression works, especially in a F2P game, you can't be handed all the stuff from day one, people are already struggling with what they have from the get-go, the game is introducing you to all sorts of things with these checklists and making sure you're getting decent playtime and experience while also unlocking nodes and getting MR from them, and it's not like it's for nothing either, the earlier rewards are pretty decent too with essential mods, bps and aura

 

42 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

3 - Caps on everything - One mastery rank per day... And standing being capped by MR... This just boggles my mind... How is a new player supposed to progress in cetus / venus if he's hard capped at less than 5k rep per day. You do a single cetus bounty per day and you have to GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE... C'mon, the bare minimum standing cap should be 10k at MR0.... At least give your new players the chance to play the open worlds and get things done.

Nobody in their right mind would spend every day getting 10k standing for 2-3 syndicates, 2 open worlds, 2 'boss battles'...every, single day. Like you just said, go play something else in this game, not necessarily another game, you can't just breeze through the content in less than a week, and you can't be handed everything. You might have plenty of time for playing but that doesn't give you a reason to demand more standing 
 

45 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

4 - Double/Triple dipping on everything : Want those cool toys offered in cetus or fortuna, or those cool mods in syndicates... Well, tough luck, because you cannot get any. First you have to rank up, meaning you'll spend days (or weeks if you have a low standing cap) raising a counter, then sacrificing all this standing for a consolation prize, only to relevel to fully and sacrifice again and again. When you finally get the thing you wanted, you usually have to build it, meaning you are in effect triple dipping on everything. People like immediate responses, like "I want this thing,  I buy this thing". Making people save up and sacrifice for weeks before they can buy said thing only ,once again , turns people away, seeing the mountain and preferring not to climb it.

Again, it's the same thing with you isn't it, and I'll give the same answers: progression and F2P game. just who are those 'people' you keep mentioning anyway? what kinda games do they play? is this their first F2P experience? 


At this point there's no point even mentioning the last point because it's pretty much all the same. You see to know nothing about how F2P games work and especially a looter grindy game like this one. If you're not gonna get used to this then I'd suggest you leave since none of this is changing, this is what you're signing up for, the grind, everything else is just icing on the cake 

I'd also really like to know who these people you keep referring to, since it's only natural not many players stick around, and it's not entirely the game's fault either. You can try this game for yourself for free and you don't feel the need to keep playing it since you spent nothing to try it out, thus players who leave will obviously be common since this game isn't for everyone, but they give it a go either way and see 

 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Then again , judging on how many of the 26 millions players basically quit after a couple of days, maybe it's not the way to go...

Source?

1 hour ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Want to unlock a planet, hey's let's do this tedious checklist of things to do like kill five eximuses and build a MR6 weapon

That's called playing the game and progression. You can't expect everything to be available to you right off the bat. What's the point in playing then?

1 hour ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

How is a new player supposed to progress in cetus / venus if he's hard capped at less than 5k rep per day

You progres, you get and level weapons to get more standing. Again, it's playing the game and progressing in it.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Insane requirements on rare ressource: Just check the amount of orokin cells required to build everything... The amount of formas, fieldron, nitain, detonite ampules, argons you need... All these things are tedious to get and it seems like you're constantly putting roadblocks there too. Especially forma, that thing takes 24 hours to make and is needed for both clan weapons + making your gear better.... UGH.

If you focus on just that you won't enjoy the game at all. Remember Warframe is a free to play game. You don't have to pay a penny for it. There is nothing wrong with logging on for a bit, do your dailies and then play something else. Or, when one thing is building, use that time to farm for something else. It really isn't too bad.

Within two weeks I was at max rank with Fortuna. It takes time but you'll get there.

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1/ Good thing you've a ton of stuff to craft in the game right ?

2/ Why are you wasting your time complaining about grinding in a grinding game ? you don't like it? Nobody ask you to play the game ...

3/ You mean that you can go level stuff to raise your MR to get more standing? that's a good thing in a grinding game... And if you get in cetus/fortuna with a rank 5or less, you will do nothing usefull (especially if as you say you cap in a single mission, which means you pick the highest lvl bounty and make you even more useless...)

4/ Grinding games are not for you, go play something else...

5/ See 4.

ending thingie : you don't like to grind : See 4... Are you seriously suggesting that a lot of content is a bad thing for new players ?  I was maxed a 1400 hours by the way... and it's a good thing for "new players" to know they will have stuff to do for a lot of time...

 

This much text to say "I don't like grindy games, should be less grindy" ...

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

As warframe matures and ages, it also gets progressively worse for new players , since the content and gear keeps piling up. If it took me 2000+ hours to be "up to date" in warframe over five years, what are the odds a new player that sees that 2000+ hour mountain of systems , caps and restrictions and says "I'm willing to do all of this"...

I started playing Warframe in June 2018 and I love having to play to progress and the fact that the game offers countless hours of grinding, learning and new things to build. In my opinion and experience Warframe isn't a game that should be approached with "I have to everything asap" or "I have to catch up", instead it should be approached with a much more relaxed state of mind.. It is possible that I'm a rare breed because I crave for games that I can't complete in one weekend and games that aren't filled with catch up mechanics that rush me to the point of boredom in a week or two.

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tbh i always thought new players quit cuz they never knew what or where theyre supposed to go or do atleast from wat i asked my friends

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So OP has problems with the fact that Warframe is claimed to be free but it still nags and operant conditions players for microtransactions? Wow Warframe is such a hypocritical game right? 

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The fact that Warframe didn't throw everything in my face when i first started was one of the things i apreciated about it

When i started i had enough with doing the nodes on each planet, wraping my head around moding, how to get warframes and stuff like that. once i was somewhat comfortable with that i could start to focus on the Syndicates and archwing. after that i focused on quests and dipping my toes in PoE

the game grows, as you grow as a player, the biggest hurdle for me was figuring out how to mod stuff properly and what damage type were best for the different types of enemies. something i wish were made abit more clear in-game

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

As warframe matures and ages, it also gets progressively worse for new players , since the content and gear keeps piling up. If it took me 2000+ hours to be "up to date" in warframe over five years, what are the odds a new player that sees that 2000+ hour mountain of systems , caps and restrictions and says "I'm willing to do all of this"... 

You'd be surprised by the number of people who actually like the endless grind. Sure there are people who look at it and go "NOPE" or people who come from games with "catch up" mechanics and also quit, but Warframe wasn't meant for any of them, it's a grindy looter shooter and it finds a place in the hearts of the select few (myself included) who like the cold hard grind.

 

1 hour ago, Leyvonne said:

I started playing Warframe in June 2018 and I love having to play to progress and the fact that the game offers countless hours of grinding, learning and new things to build. In my opinion and experience Warframe isn't a game that should be approached with "I have to everything asap" or "I have to catch up", instead it should be approached with a much more relaxed state of mind.. It is possible that I'm a rare breed because I crave for games that I can't complete in one weekend and games that aren't filled with catch up mechanics that rush me to the point of boredom in a week or two.


^This guy gets it!

Edited by EDM774

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1 minute ago, EDM774 said:

You'd be surprised by the number of people who actually like the endless grind. Sure there are people who look at it and go "NOPE" or people who come from games with "catch up" mechanics and also quit, but Warframe wasn't meant for any of them, it's a grindy looter shooter and it finds a place in the hearts of the select few (myself included) who like the cold hard grind.

And we all farm together , through the cold grind, till we're sleep deprived together 

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